Whitecloud rides again

I'm not going there on Glass sediment bulbs.  Yes, they are a "filter" of sorts, but more of a water separator than anything else, especially the short ones like Ed showed.   If I were to use one for "looks" I might bury a more robust filter elsewhere in the car.  Porsche used two different lengths, a shorter one (2-1/2" tall) for the 356 and a longer one (3-1/2" tall) for the 550.  Both were glass bulb units, although I have seen a few OEM replacements with spun aluminum bulbs - other than that, they look the same.  They were used on all sorts of things, even gas heaters.  Lane's "Brass Thingie" award is a VW/Porsche fuel filter:

Robert posted this "and make cleaning your idle jets a regular part of your service routine" and I agree that regular service is a very good idea.  However, is it possible that the act of taking them out and putting them back in would increase the possibility of disturbing some debris and cause them to get clogged?  Isn't it a situation that they are either clogged or they aren't clogged?  If they were even partially clogged wouldn't that cause the engine to run poorly?   In other words, does "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" apply here? 

I don't know the answer, I'm just curious. 

@Pat Downs

That's always been my approach. In my experience, the crud comes from messing around.

Sacto Mitch posted:

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

Robert M posted:

@Will Hesch

Micron ratings are like golf scores. The lower the number, the better.

... assuming you can still flow enough fuel. 

 

Kinda what I was getting at. That filter within the AN- fitting looks really tiny. It doesn't look like it would take much to clog the whole thing up. This is basically the problem with idle jets themselves.

Any standalone inline fuel filter has a much larger surface area, so could absorb a lot more crud before impeding flow. Maybe that's why the AN- fitting filter allows a relatively coarse 250 microns.

And Will, another thought. If your just-cleared idle jets are clogged again after just a few miles, maybe the carb float bowls need to be checked for dirt? And if they are dirty on a new engine, maybe the dirt's coming from somewhere else - tank, suspect fuel lines, etc?

 

Mitch, the main problem is that there is currently NO filter in Whiteclouds digestive tract, at least not one that filters the stuff that clogs her jets.

I've been reading about fuel filters and have a better understanding of them now, at least I think I know enough to intelligently purchase and install a filter that will keep Whitecloud's diet healthy.

As has been stated, larger micron count filters (100 and up) are aften used before the pump, they keep large particles from prematurely killing the pump.

Smaller micron count filters are (usually) installed after the pump and before the carburetors, they, along with air filters, keep our carburetors clean.

Of these filters, there are several choices: paper or stainless steel elements, small or larger sizes and various micron-counts.

Holley states that anything under 40 microns is for fuel injection systems. The larger 40 (and higher) micron-count filters are apparently perfect for carbureted systems that most of our cars use.

Taking into account that the average Weber IDF idle jet is a 50, which is .5mm or 500 microns in size.

That means a 100 micron filter, will more than filter out anything that might clog our idle jets and all of those flow multiple gallons per minute, something we'll never need.

I learned that paper elements are a no-no for any vehicle that may see ethanol in their fuel. This means we need to stick with stainless or bronze elements.

So...I guess my funky 300 micron filter in front of the fuel pump is more than fine enough to filter the fuel going through my carburetors.

Live and learn...

Why is a paper element bad in an ethanol environment?  I'm wondering that, since a LOT of OEM car manufacturers are using (I think) paper element fuel filters in their current cars (unless they're using some other element material that I don't know about!)  They'll pass fuel but not water (often) so is there something else going on there?   I'm running an in-line fuel filter for a Toyota Corolla with EFI and figured that would be fine (I think it's a 20 micron jobbie) but have no clue what the element is made from.  Could be Sun-Dried tomatoes for all I know....

Troy Sloan posted:

Robert posted this "and make cleaning your idle jets a regular part of your service routine" and I agree that regular service is a very good idea.  However, is it possible that the act of taking them out and putting them back in would increase the possibility of disturbing some debris and cause them to get clogged?  Isn't it a situation that they are either clogged or they aren't clogged?  If they were even partially clogged wouldn't that cause the engine to run poorly?   In other words, does "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" apply here? 

I don't know the answer, I'm just curious. 

@Pat Downs

I agree, Troy; there's absolutely no reason to remove idle jets if the car isn't running poorly. If there's nothing there what are you going to clean? All you're going to do by removing them needlessly is wear threads and lose  o rings. And yes, even if 1 was partially clogged you'd know it by the way the engine was running

Gordon, this is one of many pieces about ethanol (and paper filters):

Let’s hit the big problem square on. Aeromotive tells us its testing reveals that commutator wear accelerates because of E85’s reduced lubricity. As parts wear, material ends up trapped in the downstream fuel filter, meaning the filter(s) must be serviced more frequently than is typical for gasoline filters. Plus, Powell says it’s imperative that any paper fuel filter be replaced with stainless filters when using E85. Aeromotive’s testing has shown that alcohol breaks down the glue used to adhere the paper to the metal end caps, which both reduces the filter’s efficiency and causes big problems downstream when this effluvia ends up in the carburetor or fuel injectors. The typical E85 filter recommendation is to use a 100-micron stainless filter before the pump followed by a 40-micron stainless filter on the outlet side. Aeromotive and Holley both recommend using a coarse filter before the fuel pump to reduce inlet restrictions, which improves pump efficiency. Filter size is also important: a larger filter allows longer service intervals due to its larger surface area. Never use those small, disc-type fuel filters because they clog easily and will then overwork the pump until it fails. Large fuel filters will reward you with a trouble-free fuel system that will last for years.

None of us are running E85, though. 

I chose my filter by standing in the aisle at Farm and Fleet and picking the biggest one that would fit. 

Works great. 

Will, whatever filter you choose, if you're concerned about it intruding on that authentic 356 look you're going for, it doesn't have to be in the engine compartment.

Actually, there are some good reasons for it not being in an engine compartment - especially one that's sealed off at the bottom, like almost all of our cars are.

VS mounted a decently-sized metal fuel filter on my car in that compartment ahead of the engine bay. I'm a little surprised that your car doesn't have one there. It's a little clumsy to get to, but a lot easier once the left rear wheel is off.

Mitch, I'm not worried about the vintage look in the engine compartment.

I never had a fuel filter where you described, my car from vintage had a pressure regulator hanging on the firewall and I can't remember a fuel filter but it must've had one somewhere but it wasn't under the car.

I mounted my fuel pump and filter on the wall where the oil-cooler was mounted by Vintage. From the pump, fuel goes through a stainless line to my hard-aluminum manifold into the carbs.

Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water more easily than gasoline. That leads to water condensation inside fuel tanks, carburetor fuel bowls and fuel lines where air spaces are present. Water content in fuel will also swell up the paper filter media inside fuel filters not specifically designed for flex fuels and can thus restrict fuel flow at the filter.

pulled off the interweb...

Stan:  "Farm and Fleet"

Is that like a more comprehensive "Tractor Supply Company"?

ME?  I went to visit "Dave" at my local NAPA.  I've know Dave since he worked the counter at Westborough Auto Parts when I was in my mid-teens (Yes, in the days before computers ).  Dave was my counter guy when I was building Dune buggies, then flathead-powered Hot Rods, then Skating-Mom van years and so forth.  

So I visit Dave at NAPA and say: "Dave!  I need a really good fuel filter, metal can, 20-40 microns, 1/4"-3/8" barbed fittings.  A welded-on mounting tab would be a bonus."  

Dave says; "hmmmmm....Hang on a sec" and wanders out back and comes back with a fuel filter in a box.  "See if this will work!"  

Damn thing was perfect......No counter computer involved.

Gordon Nichols posted:

Stan:  "Farm and Fleet"

Is that like a more comprehensive "Tractor Supply Company"?

 

Yes. Farm and Fleet is the man-mall.

@Will Hesch

Will sent you a PM

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

Will, thanks.

When you get a chance, some video of the engine running would be cool.

 

 

Mitch, here's a video of the new engine with new A-1 exhaust installed this morning.

Speedsters are safe at idle, but that's not what Speedsters are for.

Mitch, beggars can't be choosers...

with less than 4K km on her, Whitecloud is on her 3rd engine

I'm out $10K (for the last 2 engines) and the newest engine isn't even broken-in so a happy idle makes a happy owner (and owner's wife) so there you go.

If you want to hear Whitecloud rev-up, come watch Teby and I race for pink-slips after Whitecloud's new engine's broken-in.

I'm going to have to figure out where to put the second speedster...

Store it at Teby's, he'll have room for it.

Will, with two engines and three transmissions in four years, I think I know where you're at. Well, at least I can try to extrapolate to where you're at.

It seems like just yesterday I was wondering how to not sound like a wet blanket while trying to dissuade you from picking up the new car and driving it 200 miles home with your wife by your side.

At least she's still by your side.

Take your time. Drive carefully. Change your oil every 3000 miles. See your dentist every six months. And don't rev over 3500 rpm for the first few weeks, no matter what Teby says.

You'll shoot your eye out.

I don't know about pink slips but how about you Will, Teby,  and I putting up $100 each for the first to cross the line at 200 yards ! You and Teby now have nice Pat Downs motors and I have a CB kit motor tuned by Chicos Performance here in Arcadia. Chico and Pat are old friends so maybe they would each match the money to make it interesting. The first to cross the line picks up the bucks  and bragging rights ?  No handicap, just heads up !.......Bruce