Is anyone running a Beck Subaru Spyder with a Under dash Heater Core?
Wondering how it is working out,
Do you have dash vents also?
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I'd like to see some photos of this too. Also what aftermarket heater was used and particularly and how\where it was plumbed in. Also, how to avoid air cavities......Bruce
Calling @Michael Pickett!
I like Mike's A/C/Heater installation the best of any I've seen (and hoping this doesn't give him a swelled Pineapple noggin').
Let's see: Mike's got a Speedster(CMC?), that's aircooled.
Not even close to a Beck Spyder with a Subaru. That will require a heater core inside the "box". The man with the answer is Carey Hines, but I wouldn't wait on an answer here. He's too busy building cars.
I'd bet the answer is closer to what Lane ended up with in his new Suby mid-engine coupe than anything else. Especially because Carey built that too.
Thanks, Gordon. @DannyP, you're right, my old air-cooled IM is very different. I think what Gordon was suggesting was that the idea of moving the battery into the nose and rebuilding the battery box to house a heat exchanger might be useful. There were also a few things I did with air ducting that might be helpful if someone wanted to take that approach.
Here's the first part:
https://www.speedsterowners.co...2#590725800967819512
Moving the battery:
https://www.speedsterowners.co...5#590866538509731535
Adding air vents in the dash (and underneath):
https://www.speedsterowners.co...1#590585063528406161
That's probably most of the potentially useful links regarding moving air around. I ran the ductwork along the inside top of the fenders. This design gives you fresh air only - no recirculation.
Cheers.
@Joe Fortino posted:
Hey, Joe!
Sorry for the thread drift, but would you mind dropping a link to your source for those cup-holders! How do you like them? Do they perform as you thought they would?
Will they hold anything larger than a water bottle?
I've been on the hunt...
Aircooled: could you PM me, been trying to reach you re: foot pegs, but site won't let me enter your name for a PM for some reason.
@aircooled. ^^^^^^
@DannyP posted:Let's see: Mike's got a Speedster(CMC?), that's aircooled.
Not even close to a Beck Spyder with a Subaru. That will require a heater core inside the "box". The man with the answer is Carey Hines, but I wouldn't wait on an answer here. He's too busy building cars.
I'd bet the answer is closer to what Lane ended up with in his new Suby mid-engine coupe than anything else. Especially because Carey built that too.
True, but I don't like to pester Carey. He is busy in the Toy Factory
I'd like to ask the group first. especially if someone has been running a Beck/S.E. heater core for a couple of seasons.
@Joe Fortino posted:
Hey Joe, is there any ambient heat from the heater or any of the assembly, especially during the summer?
@americanworkmule there is zero ambient heat. When it is on it's on and kicks out great heat. Between this and the heated seats I am comfortable in 40 degrees. I have taken 2 trips to Carlisle which is +1400 miles round trip mostly highway miles and have never felt additional heat.
@Joe Fortino posted:@americanworkmule there is zero ambient heat. When it is on it's on and kicks out great heat. Between this and the heated seats I am comfortable in 40 degrees. I have taken 2 trips to Carlisle which is +1400 miles round trip mostly highway miles and have never felt additional heat.
That sounds perfect. Something I need to add to my build while I wait, and wait, and wait... Ha ha
I have my Beck Suby Spyder chassis #, but it will be a long wait. I have ordered the heater and the heated seats. In the last two weeks I asked Carey about the heater and here is what he replied (to save him having to repeat it):
"Yes, on the water-cooled cars we can add a heater core under the dash. Being a modern hot water/coolant heating system it works very well. It just blows hot air down into the cabin, which gets drawn over your body and through the cockpit. We also use an “H” bypass valve so that it doesn’t radiate heat when turned off in warmer weather. The H valve is attached to the unit and controlled by a remote push/pull knob like an old choke knob. When closed it bypasses the heater core so that you don’t get radiant heat off of it, and when open you will get radiant heat from it, plus you have an electric fan to blow air over it for forced air heat."
@Foleydb posted:"...The H valve is attached to the unit and controlled by a remote push/pull knob like an old choke knob..."
Thanks, I try not to ask Carey too much. I don't want to bother him.
Is the H valve knob on the dash like the lights or original 550 Spyder ignition or fuel pump knobs/switches? or tucked under the dash?
@Cory McCloskey posted:Hey, Joe!
Sorry for the thread drift, but would you mind dropping a link to your source for those cup-holders! How do you like them? Do they perform as you thought they would?
Will they hold anything larger than a water bottle?
I've been on the hunt...
@Joe Fortino
are those santana-cup-holders?
https://www.speedsterowners.co...-santana-cup-holders
or like MusbJim use aroll of duct tape on the floorboard.
They are custom milled by Carey and crew. I had him install Santana one in my previous car and he came up with his own design. Just don't ask him how much time and money it took 😀
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Or, you could go the low bucks route from West Marine.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy...e-_-GSC%3EBrand%2520(LIA)-_-2127033&product_id=2127033&creative=504872101191&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1viTxuXb8AIVZ_HjBx00mA2XEAYYAiABEgKwDfD_BwE
@americanworkmule posted:@Joe Fortino
are those santana-cup-holders?
https://www.speedsterowners.co...-santana-cup-holders
or like MusbJim use aroll of duct tape on the floorboard.
There isn't much room to put them in a Spyder FYI. You MIGHT be able to stick them in the cockpit bulkhead, but that is an excellent place for the heated seat switches. Or maybe in the inner rocker panels, just make sure they install flush for getting an and out. If I drink coffee in the Spyder on an A.M. drive, my wife will hold the cup or I'll wait until I get where I'm going. Like this Sunday I'll probably hit a C & C event.
You can just use a roll of duct tape, it really works.
Yeah, and if you have a “sporty” Spyder replica with no carpets, once the roll of duct tape heats up and sticks to the floor, to paraphrase that old song from the Byrds, it ain’t goin’ no where.
@Cory McCloskey posted:Hey, Joe!
Sorry for the thread drift, but would you mind dropping a link to your source for those cup-holders! How do you like them? Do they perform as you thought they would?
Will they hold anything larger than a water bottle?
I've been on the hunt...
Cory, I have flush fitting ones and honestly they barely hold a small coffee so I never use them. I find myself using a contigo cup which auto locks to keep my coffee in and since I am alone most times I rest it on the seat. Just saying.
yeah, I'm just surfing the thread drift.
Check out what this guy did for a cup holders in what used to be his Spyder on BaT.
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@DannyP posted:There isn't much room to put them in a Spyder FYI. You MIGHT be able to stick them in the cockpit bulkhead, but that is an excellent place for the heated seat switches. Or maybe in the inner rocker panels, just make sure they install flush for getting an and out. If I drink coffee in the Spyder on an A.M. drive, my wife will hold the cup or I'll wait until I get where I'm going. Like this Sunday I'll probably hit a C & C event.
You can just use a roll of duct tape, it really works.
I’ve found that there a perfect “cup holder” built into my Spyder. The space between my passenger seat and the bulkhead, and the shifter cage on the left. I just have to put a finger on the cup if I take a hard left turn.
@americanworkmule posted:Thanks, I try not to ask Carey too much. I don't want to bother him.
I ask Carey nothing as it is months before I have to finalize my build sheet and I figure I have time to find out elsewhere. But this was part of our very first exchange when I ordered, and I won't bother him again. In the meantime I've built a 550 Replica Cloud where I am sticking everything I can find and every answer to every question I can find about what the car can be. The Cloud is here. Most of the content now is in the ORDERING folder.
@americanworkmule posted:Is the H valve knob on the dash like the lights or original 550 Spyder ignition or fuel pump knobs/switches? or tucked under the dash?
In answer to your question: I'm sorry I don't know for sure, but I believe it's on the dash. Perhaps someone other than Carey can chime in?
If yous guys have time to drink while driving your Spyders, then your roads aren't curvy enough.
@dlearl476 posted:I’ve found that there a perfect “cup holder” built into my Spyder. The space between my passenger seat and the bulkhead, and the shifter cage on the left. I just have to put a finger on the cup if I take a hard left turn.
I did that on my old Spyder, but there is less room on the new one. My seats are tilted back, raised an inch in front, so they are MUCH closer to the bulkhead. No room.
I did install a charge cord on each side for me and my wife. You can't see them, but they are there when we need them.
@Carlos G posted:If yous guys have time to drink while driving your Spyders, then your roads aren't curvy enough.
Drinkin' N drivin'...main problem is deciding whether to go on and pour the contents on youself before entering the car or just wait until the inevitable takes it's course.
REAL drivers drive when they're drivin' and drink when they're drinkin'.
I can relate to that. I installed two cupholders in my Speedster just so I/we would have a secure place to put the cup or water bottle and mounted them in the forward lower corner of the doors. But then, it's kind-of impractical, with all that's going on while driving, to actually pull the cup and return it. Not like my F250 that had a big, dual cup thing that popped out of the middle of the dash and was convenient as all get out (and could hold the weight of a Jack Russell, as we found out).
That's interesting! Anyone know how it's done on a Spyder, and what year is that Spyder?
There is plenty of room under the dash on a Spyder for a heater IMHO, as the cockpit bulkhead gives you room on the sides as well as under. Should be able to get a heat and/or AC unit under there.
I've got an entire gasoline heater and all the hoses for vents and defrost under there, and you can't see it.
DB Foley: That is a Vintage Spyder, but I don't know the year. It must be after 2005 or so due to the door handles. You can tell by the 2" diameter frame tubes.
@Foleydb posted:That's interesting! Anyone know how it's done on a Spyder, and what year is that Spyder?
Which spyder are you asking about? ha ha ha
@Joe Fortino posted:
That looks Nice. Which knob does what? open/Close, Fan,..?
oh no... now there is going to be a thread drift about your speakers next.
@americanworkmule posted:That looks Nice. Which knob does what? open/Close, Fan,..?
oh no... now there is going to be a thread drift about your speakers next.
That valve looking pull is the ejection button for the passenger seat.
@DannyP posted:I thought you were asking about the black one with the Rawlings baseball glove interior.
I thought it was odd having all of those logos and it not being some kind of corporate marketing kitsch
https://bringatrailer.com/list...-550-spyder-replica/
OK, here's rundown of some answers from all of the above questions: if I missed something you want answered, just tag me in the reply and I'll look back here later
The Spyder heater core is the same as Joe's Speedster, I believe it's a Mojave unit, all self contained, compact and has a 2 speed fan. Controls are hidden, as is the choke cable for the H valve. It can have dedicated defrost and defroster vents can be added to the spyder dash, and then it otherwise dumps heat to the cockpit. Our spyder column has a plate along the back side for adding things like these controls, 12v outlet, USB plug, etc...
The cup holders in Joe's car are a semi-copy of the Santana cup holders, but 1) the Santana popped open and I didn't like that, so these have a sightly stronger catch to prevent that and most importantly 2) the santana cup holders were too deep for the speedster rockers, so we put it all into CAD and made the face plate over 1" thick to offset the cup holder to fit our space. They are VERY expensive to make. From memory they were $400 each (material and machine time), plus I had a grand or two into CAD time for the first batch. We refer to Joe's cupholders as the most expensive cup holders ever.
In a spyder, you could do this in the rockers, and the stock Santana cup holders should work fine for this location. There are a few other locations that may work, but that would also depend on how you fit/sit in the car. I like mine just forward of the seat, essentially between my legs, but that would not work without the seat all the way back and would also depend on how well you fit under the steering wheel. For my size it is not an issue...
Excellent response, Carey. I might add that two defroster vents work well in a Spyder(rather than three in a Speedster), both in function and ease of installation. The wiper motor and linkage makes it tight under there. Carey's laser-cut aluminum defrost trim is a beautiful and functional way to do this. I'm sure Carey has a better way, but I used shop-vac pieces for under the dash and 1.5" defrost hose.
I have a few Beck parts on my car: the defrost vents, the steering wheel hub, the shift rod, and the really exclusive clamshell stay. I'm probably forgetting something.
Every part that Carey and the boys make is a finished and quality piece.
I also have a used Beck top, new windshield catches and clips for the top on the clamshell. The top is partially fitted: windshield catches and frame mounts by the seats are fitted. The top I purchased did not have a folding frame, it only had the two hoops. So I made a folding frame out of some flat steel and rivets for hinges. And finally ferrules for side curtains in the doors. I'm eventually going to install this top and make custom plexi side windows.
@chines1 posted:OK, here's rundown of some answers from all of the above questions: if I missed something you want answered, just tag me in the reply and I'll look back here later
The Spyder heater core is the same as Joe's Speedster, I believe it's a Mojave unit, all self contained, compact and has a 2 speed fan. Controls are hidden, as is the choke cable for the H valve. It can have dedicated defrost and defroster vents can be added to the spyder dash, and then it otherwise dumps heat to the cockpit. Our spyder column has a plate along the back side for adding things like these controls, 12v outlet, USB plug, etc...
The cup holders in Joe's car are a semi-copy of the Santana cup holders, but 1) the Santana popped open and I didn't like that, so these have a sightly stronger catch to prevent that and most importantly 2) the santana cup holders were too deep for the speedster rockers, so we put it all into CAD and made the face plate over 1" thick to offset the cup holder to fit our space. They are VERY expensive to make. From memory they were $400 each (material and machine time), plus I had a grand or two into CAD time for the first batch. We refer to Joe's cupholders as the most expensive cup holders ever.
In a spyder, you could do this in the rockers, and the stock Santana cup holders should work fine for this location. There are a few other locations that may work, but that would also depend on how you fit/sit in the car. I like mine just forward of the seat, essentially between my legs, but that would not work without the seat all the way back and would also depend on how well you fit under the steering wheel. For my size it is not an issue...
Carey. Is the core for combined A/C, heater in the speedster the same size as Joe's heater core? I think I could live with the size of Joe's core. (I know that's what she said) I'd really like to avoid the under dash valance in my build just to hide the core. I'd rather just have under dash vent and defrost and forgo the valance with the vents.
@DannyP posted:Excellent response, Carey. I might add that two defroster vents work well in a Spyder (rather than three in a Speedster), both in function and ease of installation. The wiper motor and linkage makes it tight under there. Carey's laser-cut aluminum defrost trim is a beautiful and functional way to do this. I'm sure Carey has a better way, but I used shop-vac pieces for under the dash and 1.5" defrost hose.
Do your defroster vents run all the time the heater is running/blowing?
Or is the defroster only ran with the Top Up?
@550 Phil posted:Carey. Is the core for combined A/C, heater in the speedster the same size as Joe's heater core? I think I could live with the size of Joe's core. (I know that's what she said) I'd really like to avoid the under dash valance in my build just to hide the core. I'd rather just have under dash vent and defrost and forgo the valance with the vents.
The small core is heat only. The AC/heat combo is 2-3x the size.
@americanworkmule posted:Do your defroster vents run all the time the heater is running/blowing?
Or is the defroster only ran with the Top Up?
Not sure on Danny's but we have a heater unit, same size as Joe's, that has a blend switch so you can with between floor and defrost.
@americanworkmule posted:Do your defroster vents run all the time the heater is running/blowing?
Or is the defroster only ran with the Top Up?
No. I made a spring-loaded flap that can either give heat or heat AND defrost. Sometimes when the dewpoint makes it necessary, it's good to have defrost even top-down.
@chines1 posted:Not sure on Danny's but we have a heater unit, same size as Joe's, that has a blend switch so you can with between floor and defrost.
I have never seen defroster vents on a Spyder.
If I have a Beck SE Spyder being built with the solo windscreen and hard half tonneau convertible to full windshield, would the defroster vents be in the way of the mounting attachments on the dash?
Thanks.
I don't think there's any way I would put defrost vents in my 550. I want the heat for body warmth, particularly for my kid when driving her to/from school. If for some reason I had to put the top on the car and drive in rain and I needed to defog I'll grab a rag and wipe off the inside of the windshield as often as necessary. But I don't EVER expect any of that to happen.
Well, let me give you a hint why you'd want them. Did you ever drive up a hill and at the crest all of a sudden the windshield fogs TOTALLY? After that happens you'll want defrost. It can happen top up or top down.
The vents are not in the way of anything. I'll post a picture later.
In many states, defrosters are required by law/vehicle code. I probably doesn't matter what windshield you have. Your windshield has it's own requirements was well. You should check in your local..................Bruce
@DannyP posted:Well, let me give you a hint why you'd want them. Did you ever drive up a hill and at the crest all of a sudden the windshield fogs TOTALLY? After that happens you'll want defrost. It can happen top up or top down.
I don't have vents, or a heater for that matter, but I do have a small shower squeegee at the ready. LoL
One year at Carlisle I made up a bunch of "Five Cent Racing" Windshield De-Foggers for the raffle. They were made from a piece of chamois leather ( bought at Autozone - get the nice soft kind, not the el-cheapo-stiff-as-a-board kind ) wrapped around a sponge and stitched all around. It was roughly the size of your outstretched hand. I included an instruction sheet with each one telling what it was and how to use it - I mean, it's pretty simple...... You wipe it across your windshield and PooF! The inside fog is gone.
People looked at them like they were something from the days of the Spanish Inquisition. Then, over time, those people started using them and I started getting PMs and emails telling me, "Hey! I used your windshield de-fogger and the damned thing works!" And now you know how to make one, too. I have one in Pearl and another in Kelvinator and, honestly, I've never had to use them but they're there, just in case.
@DannyP that looks factory installed pretty cool
Thank you. I love the vents too, Carey does gorgeous work on all his custom parts and pieces. No way I could make a part that nice. The curve matches the binnacle/brow nicely.
I've been driving Spyders for 15 years and over 45,000 miles. You don't need to take my advice, but experience does matter here. I may not have the most time or miles, but I have driven in everything from freezing rain and cold hail to high humidity 100F temps. I've done many AutoX. I've done a couple DE track days at Lime Rock. I even crashed a Spyder and walked(limped?) away.
This is not directed at any one person. Just trying to help out the new guys is all.
@DannyP posted:I've been driving Spyders for 15 years and over 45,000 miles. You don't need to take my advice, but experience does matter here.
I even crashed a Spyder and walked(limped?) away.
And even after the crash, his brain still works pretty good.
And then there was that whiplash incident back in 2010.
But, to be fair........ THAT happened on a Go-Kart.
And he got plenty of sympathy.
And Booze. To cut the pain, you know?
But then, Norma Stumpp still beat him.
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@DannyP posted:Thank you. I love the vents too, Carey does gorgeous work on all his custom parts and pieces. No way I could make a part that nice. The curve matches the binnacle/brow nicely.
I apologize. I thought you did make your defroster and vents, out of vacuum cleaner parts, or something... My reading comprehension and retention it's getting worse so I apologize again
@chines1 posted:The small core is heat only. The AC/heat combo is 2-3x the size.
I’m going to bag the AC. I really don’t want the valance. And I don’t want to look at a big core. 30 months and counting.
A/C is not as much of a necessity where you are, particularly when you can remove the top. You'll save money, weight, and complexity.
If you decide to go without A/C if you could get a controllable outside Air vent ala Davis on his IM it would keep you cooler at the feet and or the windshield vents. Get fresh air into the lower cab is an issue. Without that, AC with floor vents, is pretty awesome IMO.
A/C in a Suby Spyder is possible? I live on the surface of the sun in summer here. Does it help with an open car? Who has it?
Wow, soon a 550 with all these bells and whistles can be renamed to Spydsteer.
I never knew some of these were possible.
I don’t think it is possible, but thought I’d ask to make sure.
I have never seen a Spyder with A/C.
Along with precious little dash space for the air registers, there isn’t much space for the A/C condenser, either (unless you run it in front of a forward coolant radiator, if there’s space).
Anything is possible I suppose. But if you want a GT car maybe get a GT car to start with. A Boxster, say. The 550 RS was never a GT car. The more you try to make it one the less it will be like what it's supposed to be.
THIS^^^^
I have a fair number of creature comforts in my Spyder. Heat/defrost. Heated seats. Bluetooth receiver/amp/speakers. A future top and side curtains.
These options add only a tiny amount of weight. But Ed is correct, the car is designed to be as light as possible and run hillclimbs, endurance and sportscar races. It has all the noise and heat in the back, so it doesn't wear you down except for the wind. It's really good on tire wear too.
I tried to make my Spyder an everything car. But it's not. It's a great curvy mountain road slayer. I'll leave it like that, with the ability to listen to tunes(with the wife) and keep her warm when needed.
A Spyder is not a GT car. It is not a boulevard cruiser. It's not even a particularly good stoplight racer(unless you have LSD and short gears).
A Spyder is a bare-bones, elemental, and raw tool. Don't round the edges too much. Keep the edges sharp.
Future upgrades for me? Install my new sticky Vred tires and build a nice close-ratio mountain gearbox. Eventually install the top. That's it.
I already bought another sharp-edged and long-legged track and GT/trip car. Cayman S.
Buy more toys. Then you get to choose which arrow you pull out of the quiver.
@DannyP posted:THIS^^^^
I have a fair number of creature comforts in my Spyder. Heat/defrost. Heated seats. Bluetooth receiver/amp/speakers. A future top and side curtains.
These options add only a tiny amount of weight. But Ed is correct, the car is designed to be as light as possible and run hillclimbs, endurance and sportscar races. It has all the noise and heat in the back, so it doesn't wear you down except for the wind. It's really good on tire wear too.
I tried to make my Spyder an everything car. But it's not. It's a great curvy mountain road slayer. I'll leave it like that, with the ability to listen to tunes(with the wife) and keep her warm when needed.
A Spyder is not a GT car. It is not a boulevard cruiser. It's not even a particularly good stoplight racer(unless you have LSD and short gears).
A Spyder is a bare-bones, elemental, and raw tool. Don't round the edges too much. Keep the edges sharp.
Future upgrades for me? Install my new sticky Vred tires and build a nice close-ratio mountain gearbox. Eventually install the top. That's it.
I already bought another sharp-edged and long-legged track and GT/trip car. Cayman S.
Buy more toys. Then you get to choose which arrow you pull out of the quiver.
Yep. IMO, nothing says it better than “four-wheeled motorcycle.” I have a 968 for GT-ing. I like the Spyder “elemental.”
@americanworkmule posted:I apologize. I thought you did make your defroster and vents, out of vacuum cleaner parts, or something... My reading comprehension and retention it's getting worse so I apologize again
I believe, and @DannyP, could clarify but the parts below the vents that you see on top were made from ducting and vacuum cleaner parts.
Yeah, the pieces under the dash are shop-vac accessories from True-Value. The hose is made for heater/defroster usage. Got the hose on ebay I think. The right-most part in this picture.
Secured under the dash with black-painted screws from the top. The area under the aluminum is all painted black, makes it look factory. And the shop-vac pieces are a bit larger than the aluminum, only a small area was cut out of the fiberglass.
I forgot to say skip the A/C in my post up above. IF you have a top(and it is a true EMERGENCY top at that), the A/C will get lost in the open air. The heat though is very effective, 8000 Btu and a half-tonneau make you comfortable down to the low 40s. If you ride with your other half in the cold, neither one of you will be comfortable.
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That brush makes a mean boot scrubber :0 )