1776 Engine

Very new at this, how much horesepower does a 1776 engine put out, does it have any power accelerating, and what is the average spped they can reach. Looking at a couple vintage speeedsters now, and trying to gather as much info as possible. thanks

A 1776 has adequate power and it will enable you to keep up with Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas. Most 1776s have stock heads, mild cams and fairly low compression ratio. They also usually have dual Kadrons or 40 Webers. They are great for cruising, and get good gas mileage. I had a 1776 in mine, and had no trouble cruising at 70-80 mph for hours on end. You can also run stock heater boxes on them, which is nice if you need heat. I ended up having my motor taken apart and upgraded to a 2110. The power difference is VERY noticeable. So, it really depends on what you will be satisfied with. How fast do you want to go?
Ron

ron do you think the 1776 engine would be a good daily driver and how much continual maintenance do they need

Steve & Vin,
A couple of years ago the 1776 was the most popular engine choice (by site administrator poll) on the predecessor of this website. Since then, there has been a groundswell to have larger engines installed at build time or as an upgrade. I have a single carb 1776 which performs well, as Ron stated, with lively but no asphalt shredding performance. Like all type 1 VW engines, it requires regular maintenance, typically at 3,000 mile intervals, but it is simple/inexpensive to perform. I do my own and I'm no mechanical whizz. I'm sure you could use the car for daily transportation but you may have to get used to the car's limitations if you do. Mine is just for fun and that's the way I like it. BTW, I was told at some point in the past by another owner that my engine would produce somewhere in the 75 - 85 bhp but I have not had confirmation of this fact.
John H.
(Message Edited 7/15/2003 4:58:37 PM)

Steve and Vin, I own a VS with a 1776. I was told that for an everyday driver in cold or hot weather it was the best compromise between power and reliablity by several name engine builders. So I built a very Strong 1776 with all top quality parts, including $800 ported and polished big valve heads. My car accelerates very quickly also do to a 412 r&p. A 388 will give a little less brisk acceleration, but less revs at freeway speeds. All in all you should be happy with a 1776 with the right gears for your driving style. I would guess I'm getting aprox. 95-100 hp., cost aprox. $3500-$4000. Eddie

While in unversity I owned a 1970 beetle. It was basically stock, with dual Kads, a power pulley and QP exhaust. I put 65,000 hard miles on that car and the motor held up well. I followed a regular maintenance program. I sold the car with 115,000 miles on it and it was just starting to show signs of engine wear. A 1776 should give you the same results. 90.5 cylinders are excellent for high mileage, and even though 94's will give you more power, I'm not sold on 94's for high mileage. I went with a counterweighted crank in my 1776, with dual springs. I'd still get the counterweighed crank, but I'd go with John's (Air Cooled Net) heavy single springs and aluminum pushrods (and keep the revs under 6,000). You find that a 1776, with stock heads, will not give you any more power over 5,000 rpm anyways. Also, you can run a 1 3/8" exhaust system, stock heater boxes and a QP muffler, which is fairly inexpensive. Also, the stock tranny and clutch can easily handle the 1776. Some people badmouth Kadrons, but I put 65,000 miles on mine and had zero problems, which is more than I can say for my Webers!
Ron

If you want an idea of what can be done, and what kind of life you might get from an engine, there is lots of information on Jake Raby's web site: www.aircooledtechnology.com/. I believe he can build a larger engine that will give you more power and still survive 100,000 miles. There are lots of us on this forum who would like to one day have a Raby built engine in our cars, and many here with more experience than I have that can give you more information.
Ron

Effective July 1 I'm only doing 2007 and larger TI engines...Our TIV backog is so big that I have had to change afew things around here..

The reason I dropped smaller engines was because for the investment you don't get much till you get to a 2007......

I have 13 great 2.0+ combinations to choose from that can be custom tweeked for your powerband..

This thread has aroused my curiosity. Bought my Spdztr used and it allegedly has a 2110 engine, but, IMHO, it don't run like one should - I think. It's in the fast as a Civic Dept. Have the alleged build sheet for the engine, but what it sez on paper and what's in there may not necessarily correlate. Is there a quick dirty way to check stroke at least without popping the lid (pulling the head), like maybe a pencil down the plug hole? I think a tear down is on the list down the road, would like to get some idea of what's really in there before I scatter parts. I'm 61 so I guess I don't 'need' a pocket rocket, but am growing tired of cowering in the corner. Any input??
TIA Bill

Bill,
The way I look at it, it doesn't matter how fast the guy next to you at the stoplight is. With very few exceptions, the Speedster is cooler than almost anything in the next lane. The guy in the hot something generally has to do a wild burnout to get any attention at all and you get it by just being there. JMHO
John H.

I totally agree John. The Spdztr is what it is and it don't have to prove nothin to nobody (am an English major here). I'd just like to know what's living in there and get it run appropriatly for what(ever) it is. Right now it's vital signs are good, but it gets crap for gas milage (~20), spits fuel up, outta the carbs, when you blip the throttle and the alleged cam has no noticable power band, it just winds out like a stocker. There may be a cam timing problem in there somewhere. Guess the bottom line is that I'd like to get running correctly for what it is, whatever that may be. Try to establish some sort of baseline of what lives inside it and go from there to lessen the down time - and head scratching while I forget how to put it together.

After I owned my 84 IM for a year I upgraded the stock 1600 for a 1776, with a Engle 110 and dual 40 Webers. A very satisfying motor. After a few years I wanted more power, so I had a 82mm crank put in. With stock 044 heads (40 x 35.5), same cam and same carbs I could barely feel the increase. Bolted on a friend's set of 44 IDF Webers...really noticed an improvement. Took the motor apart again (I'm a sick man) and added a Web 86b cam, new IDF 44s, ported and polished the heads and installed Pauter 1.25 rockers. BIG difference. So, just because it's a 2110 doesn't mean that it will put out the big hp.
Ron

There are 2,110's, and there are 2,110's. Power output will depend on volumetric efficiency which in turn will depend on the heads
(ports, valve sizes), cam (valve tiing and lift), exhaust system, and induction system.

And if you build for power and torque you'll probably need to rethink your transaxle ratios (and strength of parts) to take full advantage of the engine output.

Engine size does mean nothing...

The stage of tune means everything.

There are"Motors" and there are "Engines"

What is a 1776 Type 1 Flat VW Boxer Style engine w/ a mild cam and dual carbs.

It's a stock 1600 cc VW motor (85.5 mm cylinders and 69 mm crank) that is running larger cylinders (90.5 mm and a 69 mm crank)
Ron

Uh, Jake, if displacement means nothing I guess the reason Porsche and other engine manufacturers (and most hot rodders) keep increasing engine displacment must be just a curious design excercise...:o)
(Message Edited 7/18/2003 10:31:02 AM)

As my pappy used to say, "There's no replacement for displacement!"

(I took Jake's comment to mean that state of tune is critical to achieving performance from any size engine. Who can't agree with that?)

Yeah, I think that was pretty clear, cubes are the basis for more horsepower, but you can have a 350 chevy engine with a 2 barrel carb, or that same 350 with 2, 4 barrels, a blower, and nitrous. They are both 350's, but one of those babies will hum a little louder than the other........Gee forgive me for that V8 talk.....I'll go back out to the garage and caress my flat four, and hope for forgiveness

Gclarke

I was merely stsing that just because someone ahs a HUGE displacement engine, they may not have all the power it *should* make, or the correct amount of power where they needit in the powerband. Each application has its own powerband, and vehicle weight, tire sizes and gearing play a HUGE role in where that "band" should be designed into the combo.

The same displacemet engine can be made into a low HP, high torque engine that does not need to rev high to make its power, or it can be tweeked to have no bottom end power at all, and turn 9,000 RPM and make huge HP numbers....By the same token it can be poorly designed and make no power anywhere, use tremendous amounts of fuel, and run as hot as a firecracker...

I have 2270TIV engines that make 130-180BHP, thats 50 HP variance in the same displacement engine. This is merely changed with CR, Cam selection, port volume/velocity and intake runner lengths/carburetion.

Its ALL in the combo!

Great post Jake.

And besides that....you hit the nail right on the head Jake. No power anywhere, gobbles gas and runs...well...pretty toasty. Think the wise thing for me would be to save the beer (and other)money for one of your power plants.

What is the difference between the 1776 engine and the Super 90 1600 engine---do not just say 176. It is my understanding they are both basically the same engine.

What is the difference between the 1776 engine and the Super 90 1600 engine---do not just say 176. It is my understanding they are both basically the same engine.

Vin and Steve.


As mentioned earlier, there are a wide variety of "builds" in any engine size, including the 1776 cc. I have a 1776 in my VS that was built locally 2 years ago. Since then I have wanted a Raby 2007cc but time & circumstance have not allowed this option. I would like a little more power, but in all reality, the 1776cc properly built is an excellent all around engine for the Speedster replicas due to it's reliability, cooling virtues (a biggie), and IF built right, it's power at a reasonable level.

Now Downs, Raby and others can build you a very reliable 2017-2110-and bigger CC engine, and they can make these to be pretty reliable for daily use. Read Jake's excellent description of his 2017 engine at his web site for an example of the build and reliability he strives for in this size of engine.

But, back to the 1776.... a reasonably built one can give you 80 -110 HP depending on the build. I would guess mine runs 100 hp plus/minus 5 hp. IT is a nicely put together basic build with your standard AS41 case, Mahle pistons, SCAT C/B Crank, 12 Lb Flywheel, E120 Cam, P&P 044 CB Heads (although reading around and checking Jake's site I think the 042 heads would be a better choice for cooling and other factors). Compufire-009, Stock Doghouse, welded fan, Dual Springs, Weber 40 IDFs, Full Flow, with thermostat and cooling fan (6 1/2 Qts.) All non listed parts are German, and I stayed with your basic VW black paint with minimal chrome. All put together with attention to detail. The exhaust is CSP's unit with 1 1/2" pipes and custom heater boxes, stainless steel from boxes back, ceramic coated from engine through boxes. Comes out through twin 2" pipes at stock locations... works great and stays in line with stocker look. I have 13,000 miles on this engine and it still runs great every day, all day long. No cooling issues EVEN on our 110' days in OKC and we have had boocoo this summer. Geared up with a freeway flyer 4th gear swing axle/camber comp and 3:88 R/P. Oh, and I run Vavoline fully synthetic with barely a hint of a leak... more like a small accumulation on the case that I wipe or wash off monthly.

The above engine is nothing you won't see in half the old cal lookers in SoCal before many went with bigger engines. It's still a popular engine, probably the most buuilt engine above stock. It's an easy build, and relatively cheap. I can cruise at 75-80 all day long... and still get a mini rush through the gears.

Do I want a bigger engine. Yes.... but that's because I am not all that concerned about it as a daily driver. I want those virtues tho... with more power. A 2017 at 120-130 HP sounds perfect!

Just food for thought.
To each their own though!


(Message Edited 7/31/2003 12:29:03 AM)

Jake, I for one very much appreciate the fact that you continue to post on this web page in spite of those who are just waiting for you to say something that they can criticize. Everyone knew, or should have known, what you meant by your comment on engine size. Not to get off subject, but it reminds me of a similar comment often made with regard to a certain part of the male anatomy. And, I sure hope we all understand what is meant by that comment!

Thanks again Jake for participating and to all of you Jake antagonists, of which there are very few, how about easing up and limiting your responses to comments that have some useful benefit to the group

Ron,

So how did you read ALL THAT into my post????????? Take a chill pill and say goodnight Irene! I have 200% respect for Jake and his opinions. Zero in my post reflects any other view.

As Archie Bell and The Drells (from Houston, TX) sang in 1969... "Do the Lighten Up" (I know tighten, but in this case). Find someone else to white knoght defend bubbah, Jake is doing great on these forums without the choir boys chiming in!

Again, I have total repsect for him. I also deeply appreciate him and John Steele, occasionally John Connely, and others sharing their time and advice.

Jim Ward
(Message Edited 7/31/2003 10:36:11 AM)

Jim my VS-Bro....
I think Ron was referring to GB's post. Same guy that doesn't hate ugly women but wouldn't want to date them or doesn't hate J-Lo bodies but wouldn't drive them beacause they're ugly.... )O:

Jim, I wasn