1956 Speedster - Park Place Ltd

David Stroud posted:

Troy Sloan posted:

@skippythedog

 

You would be doing all SOC members a big favor by posting here when you see deals like that. 

 

Especially Troy Sloan............who buys Speedsters....

Really Troy, do you post purchase opportunities on this list before you snatch them up for embellishment and resale ?  I don't remember you doing so. 

You're right David I snap them up if they are a good deal and I'm in a position to buy, but it's rare that I find them on the SOC.  In fact, I don't think I ever have. I probably don't post about cars that I think are good deals everytime I see them, but I have and I'll try to do it more.  I've certainly provided lots of help to prospective buyers who contact me about cars they are considering and also referred many buyers to manufactures.

I guess in the case of this thread, I'm skeptical that there are frequently Vintage Speedsters under $20K and I'd love to see them.  I haven't bought a Vintage or a JPS for under $20K in more than three years and like I said, I scour the Internet daily. 

WOLFGANG posted:

I'll start some pop corn....

If anyone has anything useful to add, as so many of you do, I'm all ears.

RonPr posted:

I've scheduled for Monday a PPI with the Vintage at Park Place. If all goes well there is a chance I'll start negotiating a deal having not driven the car...never even driven a Speedster. I figure if it doesn't agree with me I can sell it and not lose my shirt. There seems to be quick turnover with a good chunk of these cars. When people sell are they breaking even, losing a little, or losing a lot? Thanks.

Good luck Ron.  I think the PPI car is a good deal, if the pictures are accurate and the engine is in good shape.

Your question is hard to answer, because it depends on a lot of things.  In general, they have been appreciating for the past several years, so if you take care of it and hang on to it for a few years, you'll probably make money or at least break even. 

I gots mine, a Beck; only need one....pretty much done looking.  If I were to stumble upon a pristine Intermeccanica Roadster (tall windshield, cushy seats), I might swap....though the apparent scarcity/availability of the glass pieces gives me pause...just stuff I've heard.

I wasn't aware glass for early IM was an issue?  An Envemo - now I'd think you'd have issues there with glass.

I haven't really delved into it at length....during the last few months I simply heard that Speedster windshields were common whereas Roadster/Cabriolet glass was not.....might just be a rumor...

skippythedog posted:

I haven't really delved into it at length....during the last few months I simply heard that Speedster windshields were common whereas Roadster/Cabriolet glass was not.....might just be a rumor...

 

Not a rumor.

The Vintage Speedsters with low miles usually recently built were selling in the $18k to $22k going back just a couple of years. Troy is correct the market has adjusted upwards do to the loss of production from Vintage. Demand is up and inventory is down. I think we all know how that works. As we all know the lowest price is not always the best price. If you chose to purchase a car from Park Place you should know going in it probably will need a lot of sorting. There is a reason these low mileage cars appear frequently, The buyer does little research and assumes they are buying a new car. You would be much better off spending more money and buying from one of our fine "sorters" on this site. BTW the story described above is me. I got my Speedster from Vintage at the bottom of the recession when Kirk had a lot of cancelled orders. $20k later I have a wonderful high performance well running and driving "entry level" car. 

Appreciation and the fact that the cost of paint and related supplies and parts to assemble these cars has gone out the roof,  you can go with the Chinese stuff from Empi and saving some money upfront but what you really end up with is rolling aggravation. There was a time not too long ago I could buy a rolling project for $4,000 now it's more than double that then add in another  $9k to $10k make it right.  The flared black speedster I have for sale is a steal at $24k.

majorkahuna posted:

The Vintage Speedsters with low miles usually recently built were selling in the $18k to $22k going back just a couple of years. Troy is correct the market has adjusted upwards do to the loss of production from Vintage. Demand is up and inventory is down. I think we all know how that works. As we all know the lowest price is not always the best price. If you chose to purchase a car from Park Place you should know going in it probably will need a lot of sorting. There is a reason these low mileage cars appear frequently, The buyer does little research and assumes they are buying a new car. You would be much better off spending more money and buying from one of our fine "sorters" on this site. BTW the story described above is me. I got my Speedster from Vintage at the bottom of the recession when Kirk had a lot of cancelled orders. $20k later I have a wonderful high performance well running and driving "entry level" car. 

For my clarification, are you saying you spent $20k sorting the car? I don't think so but want to be sure. Thanks.

There are several here who bought "new" VS a few years back - one had engine barf oil several times on way home and had to have a new engine installed. A little madness (wanting more power/reliability) could easily consume $20k (especially if you are paying someone to do the work). 

WOLFGANG posted:

There are several here who bought "new" VS a few years back - one had engine barf oil several times on way home and had to have a new engine installed. A little madness (wanting more power/reliability) could easily consume $20k (especially if you are paying someone to do the work). 

I'm very close to purchasing a Vintage built about a year ago with 3,000 miles. Heading to PPI this week. Is 3,000 miles enough to have identified all the issue that need to be sorted?

In a sense I did spend $20k. You are correct a lot of that money went in to performance, brakes, and handling enhancements. I live at 7000 feet so getting it to run properly added to the issues. Many thanks to Anthony’s Autowerkes without his skill I would have sold this car sometime ago. Many distributor swaps, carb jets, etc. went into what is now great “med entry” Car. Like many VS cars this Speedster was disaster from the day I bought it. Bad tranny immediately which Kirk to care off. Due to my ignorance and effort to get the best deal and take advantage of the recession by buying someone else’s cancelled order I wound up with the famous Mexicrate engine that failed at 7k miles. 

My advice would find out who the engine builder was and do a leak down test. Transmissions are cheap and the rest depends on what you want to “invest.”

Majorkahuna, hats off to you for your persistence and patience. 

No matter who the builder is, not denegreting any vendor... nothing is exactly perfect because they are custom built and many suppliers, vendors go into the mixt.  On top of this, your baby arrives and you think they did 1000miles of check and adjusting... NO, they but a few hundred if they can.  

You then go from surprise to surprise as one system after another goes wonky and you try to understand what is happening and how to fix it for good.  

Sometimes you find out it is the builders carelessness, sometimes it can be your carelessness.  When was the last time you had to check a fuel filter on your daily driver.  You can answer this question... never but if you have a gear clamp it might loosen after 1000miles and spill fuel ...

Morale of the story, your maintenance routine needs to be broadened to include things you never really do on your DD... It is not uncommon for a car to take 2-3 driving seasons to sort out while you chase a problem, yourself, or by a good tech ... find a good tech could be in and of itself a challenge for ACooled, and even subie engines. 

Now buying used is more cost effective if you know the source of the engine and tranny but mostly the engine.  i.e.: Pat Downs CB engines as great .... this way with a good PPI you should not have to deal with a rebuilt on that major system. 

Other than that, getting one sorted by guys in the know is a good option.  

One needs a good education in these cars especially if your budget is limited and you don't understand cars, let's say your not mechanical...

Notice I did not say you did not like cars.  

One builder says he builds one dream at a time.... dream vs reality, now that is the question  

Good luck in your search.

Nailed it. I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous. I however have great skill writing checks. 

Thanks for the great input everyone.

RonPr posted:

WOLFGANG posted:

There are several here who bought "new" VS a few years back - one had engine barf oil several times on way home and had to have a new engine installed. A little madness (wanting more power/reliability) could easily consume $20k (especially if you are paying someone to do the work). 

I'm very close to purchasing a Vintage built about a year ago with 3,000 miles. Heading to PPI this week. Is 3,000 miles enough to have identified all the issue that need to be sorted?

3,000 miles in a year isn't too bad. Most of us average between 3K and 7K miles per year. And then there is Jim Ignacio, El Guapo, who put 100K miles on his first car and has probably over 30K on his current car. Us West Coast guys probably get a few more miles out of our cars each year over the East Coast guys as well as the guys in the middle states. At 3K miles the previous owner should have already run across and sorted a few problems, possibly. If there were timing issues, brake issues, carb issues etc. I imagine he'd have noticed them and handled them already. Don't be afraid to ask.

Don't be afraid to ask why they're already selling the car. Many of the lowest mileage cars are being sold because the purchaser didn't do any research prior to the purchase and the reality doesn't mesh with the dream. An air-cooled engine needs periodic attention, the cars smell like gas, there are no creature comforts and all of those are reasons why some people sell but they're the very reason I have one.

Don't just drive it around the parking lot or the block. Take it for a good drive, work through all four of the gears, drive it in reverse, get on the brakes hard, try the headlights, the turn signals, the windshield wipers (just in case) but don't be too concerned how slow they are it's just how they are, check the play in the steering wheel, and all of the other things you'd check on a daily driver.

There were thousands of Vintage Speedster cars built and there are still thousands on the road. In the hands of the right people VS built cars will last a very long time. And in the hands of the wrong person, these cars, regardless of who built it, won't last a few seasons of driving.

My Slate Grey JPS is available now and I will soon have a Black Vintage Super Widebody available.

Pictures and video of my Slate Grey JPS are on my website here:  http://www.replicaspeedsters.com  The car is in California and my contact information is on my website if you are interested.

“here were thousands of Vintage Speedster cars built and there are still thousands on the road. In the hands of the right people VS built cars will last a very long time. And in the hands of the wrong person, these cars, regardless of who built it, won't last a few seasons of driving.”

Well said 

Oh yes,  BTW I love my car too

@Ron P I bought my 2013 VS (w/ a 1915cc engine) in March of 2017.  It had 3,000 mi on it.  It now has 7,500 mi and has has left me stranded once-when i lost the car key.  So, to be fair, not really the speedster's fault as much as it was the idiot owner's.  
I don't push my car hard.  I don't race it, drop the clutch or anything like that.  On the highway, I cruise between 3200-3500rpm.  I check the oil level before each ride.  I don't ride when it's above 90 degrees outside.  I carry a candy thermometer in the car to check the oil temp when I think it's getting hot.  I plan my trips around the horrible Bay Area traffic (as traffic is no fun for me or the car).  While my sample size is relatively small, 3500mi in 1.5 yrs, the only money I have spent in my VS is:
1. oil for oil change,
2. CB performance oil sump (just to add more oil capacity),
3. cost for mobile locksmith to provide two new ignition keys

I've also purchased minor aesthetic items as well. (gaskets, hubcaps, decals, etc)

To date, I have been thrilled with the speedster.  It has lived up to and surpassed my expectations.

Yes, you can search through all the postings here, and find a number of complaints with VS (and JPS).  That said, VS used to crank out a lot of cars, therefore it is almost guaranteed a small percentage of them will have issues.......these are hand built cars after all, and various items are cheap to keep the cars inexpensive.

Candy Thermometer... Ummm... sweet  

Quick update. The Park Place Speedster was sold the day before it went for PPI. Found another Vintage in CA, inspection went well. It was packed up today and is currently on its way to IL. Thanks to everyone for your help.

Ron P posted:

Quick update. The Park Place Speedster was sold the day before it went for PPI. Found another Vintage in CA, inspection went well. It was packed up today and is currently on its way to IL. Thanks to everyone for your help.

That looks very nice. Enjoy the car and Welcome to the Madness.

That is a pretty one for sure!  Now drive it like you stole it, but don't forget it's really a VW underneath all the pretty.  Be safe.