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2017 2018 JPS Business Update

Roy Simpson, Ex owner FF Plastic PorscheRoy Simpson, Ex owner FF Plastic Porsche

I have a hard time taking serious, someone that will not say who they are.

It is easy to slander someone, in a dark room. No one knows who you are.

Someone can make up a story, some of that story might even be accurate.

One line, someone asks for help, everything else being, they screwed me and I'm going to make them pay. One way to try and make them pay is, ruin them in the public eye.

4banger, do you have a name.

This is old, at least someone should meet face to face with the persons and or company you maybe trying to do business with.

I have some color sanding to do and I hate color sanding.

B 4Banger

I am leery of the internet. Everyone should be. I have given a screen name. But who really should care what my name is? It's not what's important. I can tell you that I do not lie or cheat or steal and I don't do slander or ruin people's lives. I'll leave that to others to make their choices. And I have always been trying to help as best I can. I don't really care if you believe me or not. I have work to do. Personally I think you are a distraction and are simply overlooking the big picture. This may be a classic example of why things have persisted so long. 

How about this. I stop my part here. I would hope productive discussion will continue without my input. Anyone can do their own research or wait for the evening news. I can't get too specific here and do all the leg work for you. You will believe what you see or not. I have to stay focused.

Cheers and beers

Last edited by 4Banger
DannyPDannyP

Good luck with that meeting. When Tom Dewalt's car was acting up at Carlisle, Tom asked John to come over and look at it. Said he'd be over. He never showed up the WHOLE WEEKEND!

So much for his word and my opinion of it. Once he's got your money, uh, buh-bye!

After watching that firsthand, then having a part in the disassembly(photographed and posted here) and repair of the Green Coupe's engine I don't have a resulting positive feeling.

Roy Simpson, Ex owner FF Plastic PorscheRoy Simpson, Ex owner FF Plastic Porsche

Some manufacturers are hard to get warranty work.

 

A example, my wife and I purchased a new 2017 Mercedes-Benz.

 

About a month after receiving the vehicle, we received a letter saying we needed to contact our local dealer, there is a recall and our vehicle maybe effected.

Called the dealer, gave them the vin # and was told, yes our vehicle is effected. I ask what was the issue and what did we need to do.

They said the center drive shaft bearing could come detached during a crash and the cause the fuel tank to rupture, thus causing a fire.

I ask when we could bring it in to get the recall taken care of. I was told they were waiting parts and would contact us when the parts were available.

About 30 days went by and I had not heard anything. Called the dealer for an update. Still waiting parts, they said. I ask what we could do and was told, not to drive the car, if we were concerned with the possible safety issue.

We did get a call and had the issue resolved about 4 months after purchasing the vehicle.

That's what one gets, when you buy a vehicle from a Fly-by-night company.

Last edited by Roy Simpson, Ex owner FF Plastic Porsche
B 4Banger

I've heard talk before like "mine is good", "I had a nice experience", "my steering wheel is great", "100k miles and not a problem yet". I've also heard about "maybe we can meet this guy at this place on this date", "I saw a beautiful motor and model car displayed" and "maybe things will change" and "give slack whenever possible". I say none of that is worth taking to YOUR bank.

Consider this. Let's say a fictitious business does 500 deals and 50 are indisputably bad and some are VERY serious and go unresolved. That's enuff for me to get out the 10' pole right there. You can judge whether the source is good or not but most people want things to go smooth so try to give the benefit of the doubt to them especially if you've heard all the stories before. The individual instances are most important to the individual who inherited the problem. But to ignore the SOURCE of those problems gets into areas like honesty, commitment, morals, and integrity. You can fix bad jobs eventually and easily. Changing a person who has conducted themselves a certain way over decades (intermittent or not), whether it gets good for a while or not, is not so easy. I'm glad I had wonderful parents and role models. I wish that for everyone. All this is about the CAR AND BUILDER DETAILS. There's more.

The BUSINESS is a separate consideration and equally important. While your money is being spent by someone else (kinda scary...why don;t they have any money?), is the business active or inactive? Is it incorporated or sole proprietorship? Big deal. Based upon hints (some stated above), are you prepared to have total trust (or to lose that money)? You can start by going to State Secretary of State for opened or closed articles of incorporation, You can go to county offices for private businesses. You can go to BAR for possible violations operating without a license. You can see whether the business has failed to pay for licensing fees (like if a check bounced), or renew papers, or paid taxes. You can even Google Map any address posted and see whether it is a store or a rented mailbox (not that a dated pic tells you what's inside). All kinds of stuff available IF you take the time. Couple this with the above and you might be able to connect the dots and come to a MEANINGFUL opinion than "I did OK" implying that you will do OK today or tomorrow.

And then there are the LAWS. State and Federal. Like or not, whether ignored today or not, they are on the books. If you choose to ignore them or allow others to because you think it will be OK, you have to be prepared. You could lose your car or whole estate. I have real, documented examples that makes skins crawl. Imagine having your new $100k+ RV confiscated by the state and told to "Go after the seller" or your insurance pulled after an accident that causes people to be hospitalized and you have to cover the bill (unless maybe you try to avoid debts by closing a business and seeking protection under limited liability or bankruptcy). That MIGHT work.

The good news is I built two brand new custom vehicles from scratch not so long ago. Both took some extra energy, a bit more money and time but they were 100% legit throughout. I was comfortable that they would pass ANY law or test. Brand new matching numbers vehicles just like a 2018 whatever. Later I trusted someone and believed things I was told. The outcome was not so nice. Once settled, I won't go that route again.

Today I would not buy anything but a completed car (from Troy...ha). It would be fully registered in the seller's name prior as a COMPLETED car (not a donor part) and already roadworthy. I would have it fully inspected and check VIN as well as all the other records associated with that VIN at the state capitol. Only then I would pay only the legal owner. You are more likely to be fine as well as anyone you sell the car to in the future.

I wish I had more time to explain details and was free to do so. But we are busy on a "Mission from God".  Just a general public service announcement about no particular business or builder. Take it or leave it.

B 4Banger

While I pursue some ugly matters (from God), I may have some items for sale as I doubt I will have anything to use them on. First time posting images so hope this works. Not for sale yet but maybe soon.

Vintage Heur double stop watch panel I made for dash. FYI those watches are the real deal and not cheap so this will not be for everyone.

Stopwatch Panel-006

A complete and new Retro radio system (except speakers were returned dirty and bent by some guy). Can supply pics when/if.

A Moto-lita wooden steering wheel and hub (copy) I got from England that a builder here didn't know how to install. Guy I got it from has installed often on VW-based Speedster replicas (he sent proof). Fits generic middle age VW's. May require a small amount of INTELLIGENCE and SKILL to install.Moto-Lita Copy for VW-003

An all stainless exhaust stinger I made. 3-bolt flange pattern with matching flange for welding to header.Flange on stinger is now welded.09-14-17 Exhaust-001

There's other stuff like racing pedals etc.

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  • Moto-Lita Copy for VW-003
Last edited by 4Banger
B 4Banger

Just a note. On a prior reply I mentioned Troy and kidded (tried anyway) about buying a car from him. What I meant was I would never personally consider another build project unless I built it myself. My advice was to only buy a completed car from someone like Troy where you can touch it, inspect it, drive it, and is already registered/titled/roadworthy. This way you can do background checks and know what you are getting.

I do not personally know Troy but followed some of his prior sales. I would've considered a purchase with him but I needed A/C. Just wanted to be clear.

B 4Banger
Roy Simpson, FF Plastic Porsche posted:

Here's a possible story line.

Some nameless idiot, finds some unscrupulous shyster, sues some nameless company. Company goes out of business, nameless idiot gets rich/gloats.

I should write a novel, but I never learned to write.

Just a Hypothetical guess, could be, might be, maybe, could of or maybe not.

Nawh. Boring. Some stories have been overdone. Writing a novel is hard. I know. Respectfully, you best stay with nice cars.

You need a better story. You have to keep your chronological order straight. You have to do some better character development. Some prefer international intrigue and lots of angles and action. A good writer will focus on the real story, not have dreams of getting rich off one book, and ALWAYS have the reader's best interest in mind.  

 

M MaxMartens

Well I know my story. Builds are on. A dozen cars + in various stages being built or waiting in line. Busy shop... Know what that means?? Schedules fall behind. So if you want your car now, it ain't gonna happen. I know that, John knows that, and so should his customers coming in.

I know a bit about his partnership. The shop move will be a good thing. Its takes time with a small operation.

I thought Johns health was good. Keep on keepin' on.

B 4Banger

Thanks, Max. That's so comforting to know. 

Did you get to see John's 911 or run into his neighbors and ask them how things were going? Is he doing any deals overseas? How's that going? Looks like things are looking so good for JPS Motorsports and it's customers. Wait...is that the name on the contract? So many names...so little time. It's all too confusing.

I am sure you can take John's word to the bank. America is finally great again.

 

Last edited by 4Banger
B 4Banger

Not here.

My story hasn't changed. All documented. To repeat...

* Contract called for turn-key car, registered by JPS and delivered Sept, 2017.

*John set the contract date. We questioned it several times. He assured us. As with any contract, whatever date that's set, once breached, it's breached. If no new contract, no new date.

*Almost all intermediate deadlines were never reached in time to have car finished. But promises and assurances were always made.

*Matters got more " heated" as due date passed.

*John then casually informed us he used a salvage chassis and title. May not matter to some but my state, it's bad news.

*John then informed us he was installing a JDM motor. We didn't order a JDM. I'll let others read about this. Bad news for us if he didn't follow protocol. I sent him protocol. Again JPS had to register car per contract.

*We also ordered a DOHC motor (not standard build). John verified he was installing a SOHC. We started inquiring about his building techniques. Like a chassis welding table and other proper car building matters. We got real nervous. 

*Promise after promise made over months without following through on any. We finally had enough as there was not apparent end in sight.

*Asked for full refund by EOY, 2017. That passed and John started getting more unreasonable.

*2018, John said he had a buyer. Told John I didn't care how he raised the money. John said 1/3 money would be sent with 2/3 at EOM. Like all the rest of his BS, Didn't happen.

*Much later John sent $10k but not the rest (excess of $20k). Wouldn't respond about rest. Sent me back parts I had sent. Dirty and damaged. Added to the bill.

*No money, no car, no communication what John  Steele plans to do. No response directly by old or new company or on this forum. People here have already asked for that. 

*I remind him weekly. He doesn't answer emails or calls. Says we are not welcome on his property and his lawyer can't meet due to conflict of interest. BS. At least we don't have to hear a bunch of promises he won't keep.

JPS Motorsports, Inc (State Att. Gen records) is inactive. Records show codes for why it closed.

No record of JPS Motorsports business or license with county, city or DMV we can see. Maybe John can clarify how his business is operating. I know authorities have visited.

So what does that say about any existing contracts?

JPS Classics, LLC opened. John found a partner. (Eek). Registered address is San Marcos not N. Hollywood. They are using JPS Motorsports name and Vanowen address when convenient. No excuse for that. Not even a one-man shop excuse. Business is business.

And there's much, much more I can't mention. I think that's enough to draw some conclusions about businesses and the risks. 

Max is satisfied after talking with John. All I can say is, If his contract (with JPS Motorsports?) due date has passed, he should consider his options carefully now.

Oh...and I am still not going away. Note to  John Steele (and/or pard-ner). I left phone message yesterday. We want our money. I also emailed prior that I want it by EOD today (04-11-18). I'm not convinced there is anything but unfinished contracts, debt, and empty promises to be a good boy.

 

Last edited by 4Banger
550 Phil550 PhilFear the Yorkie! Supporting Member

I have built 3 turnkey Vintage Motorcar Spyders. First one 1.5 years. Second 2.5 years. This car will be delivered at the 1 year mark. All promised to be built much sooner. None of my contracts had dates of completion. And yes there were times I was frustrated.  But I received all three cars. All were beautiful works of mechanical art. And I’m very happy to call Greg Leach a friend today. Some times you have to give folks the benefit of the doubt. It has certainly worked out for me. 

Kevin - Bay AreaKevin - Bay Area Supporting Member

@4Banger have you consulted an attorney?  It sounds like you tried to resolve this in a gentleman fashion. But that isn’t happening. 

So bring your contract to an attorney. Have them review and provide proper direction. 

There have been numerous responses on this post. We’ve all heard you. Members have even done field recon work to assist you.  I’d stop “harassing” John altogether until you consult an attorney.  That may be the only next step in your future to providing resolution. 

B 4Banger

Sheesh, man. You just ain't getting it. Greg ain't John. We understand car building and what it can take because we have built several with our own 2 hands. We were as lenient and forgiving as we could be with no end in sight. When all else fails, you revert back to what the contract says.

My 1st priority is to recover our money. 2nd is to help people avoid pitfalls. I'm backing off of the 2nd. I just can't devote any more time and energy at this time. Maybe later.

It's your thing. Do what you want to do. 

Jim KellyJim Kelly2013 SAS coupe-Fiji

I agree with Alan.  While this forum is an appropriate venue to alert other members of concerns with a specific manufacturer, or facts that affect the hobby as a whole, the poster does himself no favors in the credibility department by remaining anonymous.

i have used this forum in the past to expose what I believed was a criminal conspiracy by a replica maker.  The difference is that I identified all facts in the matter, including my identity.  Poster has no problem exposing information about JPS info, but keeps his info hidden, which tends to make a reasonable person believe there may be additional, detrimental facts the poster wants to remain unknown.  Perhaps he only wants us to google JPS, not him.

Additionally, some of the info he is posting is incorrect.  There is a new LLC status, JPS Classics, LLC, but it makes no reference to a partner or investor, only the agent for service of process.  This is the normal filing for an LLC in Califiornia.  In fact, the "partner" 4Banger refers to is a local Encinitas attorney serving as agent.

B 4Banger

Kevin and Alan. Wholly agree with you. As I said, I didn't come here to do a soap opera. I came to find out where JPOS and John Steele were.  When people inquired, I answered with facts. Others turned this into irrelevant repeats. Perhaps I should have not responded at all. My 2nd goal was word's of caution. It's been done.

Yes, many steps taken already both by me and other entities. So I guess I should step away from this discussion now. Good luck to all.

Thanks.

B 4Banger
Jim Kelly posted:

I agree with Alan.  While this forum is an appropriate venue to alert other members of concerns with a specific manufacturer, or facts that affect the hobby as a whole, the poster does himself no favors in the credibility department by remaining anonymous.

i have used this forum in the past to expose what I believed was a criminal conspiracy by a replica maker.  The difference is that I identified all facts in the matter, including my identity.  Poster has no problem exposing information about JPS info, but keeps his info hidden, which tends to make a reasonable person believe there may be additional, detrimental facts the poster wants to remain unknown.  Perhaps he only wants us to google JPS, not him.

Additionally, some of the info he is posting is incorrect.  There is a new LLC status, JPS Classics, LLC, but it makes no reference to a partner or investor, only the agent for service of process.  This is the normal filing for an LLC in Califiornia.  In fact, the "partner" 4Banger refers to is a local Encinitas attorney serving as agent.

This is a good example of wasting my time. I NEVER referred to an Encinitas lawyer and the LLC you refer to has legal filings of incorporation. It has 2 owners. and an agent for processing. You have your facts all messed up. I'm outa here.

B 4Banger

In an effort to be fair and honest with forum members and others, I have at least partial updates about some businesses and their operations. I also wanted to give Patrick Crane a fair shake and the chance to explain his company strategy. I appreciated his accessibility. If anyone else has further details or corrections, they are welcome to post.

According to Patrick Crane, co-owner of JPS Classics, LLC, he wants to offer customers "Classic" replicas. He didn't clarify what a "Classic" is or what is a "Non-Classic". But when it comes to a "Classic", that is when he wants to come into play.

JPS Classics, LLC (a 2-owner corporation) apparently discusses the customer's desires and puts together a "Classic" package. He then orders the customer's car to be built by JPS Motorsports (owned by 1 of the 2 owners of JPS Classics, LLC). Mr. Crane says, "Yes, you get the picture.  Except that we are all under the same roof but I'm responsible for the build." He was referring to only his "Classic" build. 

I did finally get one email from John Steele. Basically nothing has changed except that the car wasn't sold back when he said and is available for sale now. I don't think I own a car so have no clue what that has to do with me. The take-away is that there is still no quick/easy solution in sight.

I have no other information I can share. 

 

EwatubEwatub Supporting Member

4BANGER: Man, you have got a tough row to hoe, hope you start catching some breaks.  

I've had two cars built by two different builders.  I was quietly FINE  until I saw the ownership paperwork and picked up the cars at the pier.  I spent a chunk of change on travel & lodging following my money. Can't say how it affected the build, but it helped my paranoia.

My experience has been that contracts are mental *********ion unless all involved, are willing & able to do what was agreed.  Stuff happens, it's not just bad actors like 4BANGER is dancing with.  Builds can get delayed for a bunch of legitimate reasons.

I'm not doing the hindsight thing.  I got the cars built becauseI WAS DAMN LUCKY.  Essentially, aside from lots of delays, the builders I used chose to do what was agreed.  I doubt I had any more data on the builders I used than 4BANGER had.  It's scary random.  

IF YOU  CAN'T  AFFORD TO LOSE PART OR ALL OF THE COST OF THE BUILD, IT MAY BE WISE TO FIND ANOTHER WAY.  HAVING A CAR BUILT IS NO NET FLYING, YOU CAN GET SERIOUSLY HURT.  

 

 

 

 

B 4Banger

EWATUB. Couldn't have said it better myself. I have met a good builder and visited his place. I trusted him with some business and he came through and then some. But regarding guarantees?...if I can't drive and inspect it, I don't buy. A well written contract is mostly for the lawyers. Where you deposit your money while a build is in progress is key.

My plight will never be over. This week marks 1 year past the build, registration and delivery date John Steele set himself. I have neither my money nor the car he promised. New customers can do what they wish and believe what they want dealing with a John Steele business. Your "got lucky" comment is on time. I have a set of rose colored glasses they can have as I will not be using them any more.

Alan MerklinAlan MerklinDrclock - Elkins, West Virginia Supporting Member

Big box business's do not have their trucks in that company name and create a subsidiary or complete separate entity.   Looks to be the same with JPS as Crane seems to be the upfront  guy then sublets the build to Steele which we'll assume  both wash their hands of responsibility.  Kinda like woodgrain siding from Armstong Inc.  ( some won't get that )     Not PC correct but here goes, I can't decide who the pivot man is  ...Crane or Steele.

 

Last edited by Alan Merklin
Robert MRobert M
Ewatub posted:

Before I forget, I apologize to all I may have offended with my mental "bleep" comment on contracts.  Going forward, I'll watch it.

This forum is kinda cool.  Alan expanded my vocabulary/spelling, I think I got censored and Olivia did not wipe us out.  Not too shabby.  

I know, shut up & move on.

We've all been bleeped once or twice, especially concerning this topic and one other similar topic.

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Tags: 2018, 2017, JPS, Business Update
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