2332 or 2165 vendor thoughts

Will people who have 2332cc or 2165cc engines
comment on:

1) who built them,
2) how you like them
(fast enough, reliable enough, any problems, ...)
3) if you did it again, would you go with same builder, engine size?

thanks!

I don't know why but for my use (mostly puttering around town unless I hit the freeway) I tend to shy away from really big displacement Type I powerplants; reliability tends to suffer. Being that the basic design for this configuration called for 25 horses I'm convinced that going to such high displacements might be pushing it a little. Just my humble opinion.

If, and I empasize IF, I were to do another type 1 engine I would build a dead nuts reliable 2165 by one of the major builders.

My other option would be to go 1776 if I didn't have A/C and enjoy the better gas mileage and less trouble. But I would still stick to the reliable major builders.

I am waiting for Dale to jump in here. He has a CB 2165 in his Speedster. I was lucky enough to drive it on a warm, almost hot, spring day last year and I found it to be incredibly smooth and drivable in town and it pulled on a real nice even power band from 3,000 up. It was more streetable in "feel" than my 1776 in town. Granted that is an opinion based on one day's drive... Maybe Dale will jump in here with more. One other thought? Dale has driven up and down the coast with that 2165 for nearly 3 years now and it sure seems like it has been reliable from my distant view.

I think John Leader is extremely pleased with his 2332 after getting it tuned and tweeked. I can't wait to ride in it. From what I hear it's a silk monster.

Hey Erik,
Don't you have a type IV in your car?

Hi Terry - I do have a 2.0L typeIV.

It's fun and scoots me along nicely, but I want
an engine that feels really fast (while still being
reliable)! I'd like to stay typeIV, but I think a
new typeIV is out my price range for now, that's
why I'm focusing on a typeI.

What I want is a reliable engine that makes me feel
like there's a foot in my back when I step on the gas.
I'm guessing 160+hp??

I'd like to order my new engine soon, so if anyone
has any suggestions, I'm all ears :)

/Erik

I dont really know from engines, but I really like my 2165. It pulls well, doesn't get hot and really scoots on the freeway. I drive it around town to run errands and I've driven from Sacramento to Knott's (rapidly) 3 times, ran with 14 Cobras on a two day coast run, climbed over multiple 9500 ft passes on a 356 weekend and the engine loved it. You can build faster, bigger, lighter, different but I am really happy with this selection. Thanks to Pat Downs and CB Performance for all the fun.

Erik; from what I gather from reading Jake Raby's website, which is awesome by the way, is that to get that kind of horsepower from a Type I, you're better off upgrading a Type IV, which, in your case is even better because you already have one! He also says the Type IV is way more durable and less prone to malfunctioning due to its inherent design to produce more power. Check out his new website; you might be able to find what you're looking for with an investment comparable to upgrading a Type I.

Erik,

You are on the right track. My first Speedster a JPS, had a 1.7 Type IV from a 1972 bus. This engine would run down the interstate all day long at speed. I drove that car from Florida to Maryland 900 miles and it preformed great, it would roll down the highway all day with out any issues. It just would not give you that kick in the back. I had the opportunity to purchase my IM which has a 2110 with about 145hp and a Porsche 901 Trans, this combination is a kick in the back.

If you want performance off the line and a run through the gears, a big type I with a 901 Trans and a stage II clutch will do it.

Karl

Ricardo, Jake sells type IV's so he is going to tout them here.

There are many people building very nice type 1's that don't jump on this site and ballyhoo their products.

Take your pick, but bear in mind that type IV parts are harder to find and more expensive.

Well George, actually Jake also does Type I's as well as 356/912's, etc. I know respectable builders such as him and Pat Downs can also build a great Type I; I was just referring to what I read on his website, which somehow makes sense because if you look at things such as the alloy differences in the blocks, head design, etc. you definitely notice a big improvement from the engineering point of view on the part of VW from Type I to type IV.

Ricardo,

You can find information to support any position you choose to believe in. I could find all the CB Literature and yada regarding Pat Downs to support why I am having my engine built by CB/Pat Downs. I can find different arguments on case alloys to support any position you choose to believe. But I don't post it on here. I think I agree with GB here.

I think if you want to tout a particular product because you use it that's cool. And, I have no problem with Jake touting his products now that he is ponying up the bucks.

Just an opinion, not the site gospel.

Jim

Dale'

What did you do to alter the oil filler "can" to fit the Type 1?
Looks great!

Alan

Ricardo, the only real improvements in the type IV engines were the use of aluminum for the case, larger main bearings for the crank, and a more modern method of connecting the flywheel to the crank.

You can buy a new aluminum type 1 case machined for type IV mains and a forged crankshaft to match with a similar flywheel connection. And all of this for less money.

Note that all of the type IV engines I have seen in the past few years are built on used crankcases.

That would be a new SAND CAST aluminum case made in a 3rd world country! Not a die cast, super strong FACTORY VW case.

TIV parts are no longer harder to find, nor more expensive

www.type4store.com

In the 50's and 60's Ferrari and Maserati used sand castings for their blocks, cylinder heads, and sumps; 1970's Ducatis, BMWs, Moto Guzzis, and Laverdas also used sand cast cases. The Porsche 356 3-piece and 550 DOHC engines also used sand cast cases. What's not to like? Auto Linea seems to have corrected the problems they had with their early batches of sand cast cases.

If type IV's were so great why did both VW and Posrsche abandon them in the 1970's while VW continued to produce type 1 engines until just recently? Just curious... do you have the answer?

Yeah.....even if you build your own 2,110 with CB parts......

Jake,

I'll say it... the remark you just made about Dale's "Sandcast" part was not necessary to make the point about your pride in your products.

Dale's entire package is about as reliable and well built as they come. It's not about T-1 or T-4s.... you just took a shot at George by using Dale's pic.. You may have not intended it that way, but that's the way it came off.

You sell a product that you are proud of. And I am impressed that you have ponied up the cash for this site. I respect that Jake. I also saw a side of you last year with the events related to your father.. that moved me from ever taking a cheap shot at you again. I thought; hey, Jake's a pretty good guy. I still think that is true.

So I am not here slamming your product, nor am I making an attack on you or your knowledge. I am just pointing out that you took a shot on a guy's car (by the sandcast remark) that I consider to be one of the nicest guys in our group, your group Jake. I am hoping you didn't mean it to come off that way.

George and you have a banter that I think you both enjoy from time to time. I actually enjoy it some too. Let's just make sure the bystanders don't get bruised.

Jim

Again, I have no fight on the subject of engines. I have only a basic user/home shop level of knowledge and so I'll let you and GB sling it out there. I love T-1s. T-4s, Subys, all of them. For me, a CB 2110 works.

i,m with you gordon.

Didn't Type II's went to the end of production using Type IV engines? If that's the case VW kept on manufacturing them along with Type I's. Can anyone clear this up?

Alan,
Thanks. I purchased the filler from BugFormance in Sacramento. It was chrome and I scratched it up with w/d sand paper and put a semigloss black paint on it. Remove the original filler and screw on the adaptor plate, and then the filler bolts to the plate. Almost easy.

Dale
You just saved me countless hours of machining a "real" one to fit...thanks !

Ricardo, you can still buy a brand new T2 in Brazil, but it's fitted with a T1 fuel injected 1600 engine.
There's a picture of one in my files titled motorjpg.

I have a Raby type 1 2165 and it has been reliable and has more power than I need but I am glad I have it