Skip to main content

Classified postings do not allow for discussion (replies are not allowed).  Direct message the member if you would like to discuss the item.
If you would like to edit your listing after the editing window has closed, please contact us HERE.

The Classified section is open to any individual (non-commercial firms) posting of items for sale or wanted. Members posting commercial advertisements must be enrolled in a Supporting Merchant program.  

Unassembled Thunder Ranch Speedster found it's way from Colorado to our home in WV this week, I'm half done with the latest dune buggy build ( it's already sold)  hopefully another three weeks I'll have that buttoned up and on it's way to the owner. The TR speedster has some decent engineered upgrades, came with two tone beige and tan German square weave carpet set and dozens of new parts.      The PO spent hours block sanding the car, I removed the lights, handles etc today.  Need to get rid of the old school ww tires and red smoothie rims,  then pick a unique color and make a paint appointment.

20210126_161905

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 20210126_161905
Last edited by Alan Merklin
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Unassembled Thunder Ranch Speedster found it's way from Colorado to our home in WV this week, I'm half done with the latest dune buggy build ( it's already sold)  hopefully another three weeks I'll have that buttoned up and on it's way to the owner. The TR speedster has some decent engineered upgrades, came with two tone beige and tan German square weave carpet set and dozens of new parts.      The PO spent hours block sanding the car, I removed the lights, handles etc today.  Need to get rid of the old school ww tires and red smoothie rims,  then pick a unique color and make a paint appointment.

20210126_161905

@Alan Merklin what color are you thinking?

I have slight color blindness, some shades appear different to me .. purple / violet, green / brown...but wiring is not a big problem, the trick is to have good lighting and  back up a wire with a piece of white paper then I can tell the difference.  That Stone grey looks like a blah lighter green to me.  The past three projects have all been Porsche Seal Grey so I need to kick it up a notch or two. The interior that came with the car is a light beige /tan.  I finished removing the lights bumpers etc. we'll trailer it to the shop and spend some time going through his samples and take along the carpet and vinyl. stripping Connie and I will trailer the Speedster. I still have a few weeks to go on the buggy build and hope to do a week in Florida in March and by the slim chance everything happens to fall into place, have this Speedster done the first week of May

I'm swimming upstream again.

Everybody is all about blue all of the sudden. Blues are nice (my bus is something of a dove blue), but I think Alan wants to sell the car, not make a statement with it. There are no shortage of people for whom blue just rules a car out. I almost didn't buy the bus because of the color, and it took me 6 months before I didn't automatically assume I'd paint it. It almost never photographs as good as it looks, and good photos are what sells specialty cars.

I'm the most boring man in the world-- I've got white work vans, and every other vehicle (except the bus) I've owned since 1985 has been some variation on silver/black.

Red sells cars ("resale red"), but it's also a turn-off for at least half the potential buyers-- to say nothing of the fact that it's not an exceptionally original looking color-- and again, a lot of first-time buyers want an original looking car. Outside of Italian cars (which should be red, by law), lots and lots of buyers are cooling on red. I'm not sure anybody under 50 wants to buy one.

With a tan interior and a body that's already been blocked, I'd paint it black. Non-metallic, base/clear black. Black is hideously hard to take care of, but it looks classic and tough at the same time. Black cars look great against chrome, and look great with no chrome at all. I know of nobody who doesn't think it looks fantastic.

It's not unique, but "unique" doesn't sell cars.

@Jon T posted:

I'm not a fan of red inside or out, but this sweet '55 Porsche 356 Continental Cabriolet is a Turkish Red which appears to favor the merlot end of the red spectrum.  It looks pretty good with a tan interior.   (Hmmm...I'm still looking for my first speedster...when will this be finished?)  

Ruby Red is about halfway between that and guards red. I hate guards red. Way too many Porsche's are GR. But Ruby is one of my favorites. More blue, less yellow.

image

Attachments

Images (1)
  • image
Last edited by dlearl476

When we were looking at having Kirk build our Speedster (before buying ours), we were looking at black / ox blood, black / tan, silver / ox blood or silver / tan.
....then we stumbled across an ad for our green speedster. I would have NEVER been so bold as to have Kirk build us a green Speedster, but it works (for us). It’s definitely a stand out color. You either love it or hate it.....which could either be great when selling a car, or terrible.
As Alan noted, sometimes it’s tough photographing the unique colors. They look so different in person. I have a very difficult time. There’s times of day when I love my green, and times when I want to loose my lunch.
I’m glad it worked out for you Alan. I happen to love that tone of blue.  I believe @*LongFella speedster is that same blue and I absolutely LOVE his speedster.

Black makes me worry that around dusk someone in a F150 crew cab will mistake the car for a speedbump.

That only happens in silver on a bright day(early morning or late afternoon) or near dusk. The silver blends in and is indistinguishable from the gray of weathered pavement. Trust me, I've almost been killed a half-dozen times when my Spyder was silver. It happens much less often now that the car is white.

I always see black cars, except at night, lights off.

We have the same problem as motorcycles. The eyes see the car or motorcycle but the brain doesn't register it as there, because they're not LOOKING for a small vehicle.

Last edited by DannyP

I'm the lucky buyer of Alan's latest speedster build.   My wife and I are honored to have our build in the care of an absolute legend of this trade!   I'm making sure Alan will sign the gas tank as an upgraded feature ; )

On the color selection, we've had several gray, silver and black cars over the years, so I wanted to break out to something with some color to it.  I'm really excited about the non-metallic aqua marine with the tan interior... Should look awesome when we take it to Ocean City, MD and cruise down coastal highway in the summer.

Thanks to everyone on this forum for the wealth of knowledge you bring to the table.  Looking forward to starting this journey with everyone and hopefully getting to Carlisle in a few months to meet in person. 

@MarylandGuy posted:

I'm the lucky buyer of Alan's latest speedster build.   My wife and I are honored to have our build in the care of an absolute legend of this trade!   I'm making sure Alan will sign the gas tank as an upgraded feature ; )

On the color selection, we've had several gray, silver and black cars over the years, so I wanted to break out to something with some color to it.  I'm really excited about the non-metallic aqua marine with the tan interior... Should look awesome when we take it to Ocean City, MD and cruise down coastal highway in the summer.

Thanks to everyone on this forum for the wealth of knowledge you bring to the table.  Looking forward to starting this journey with everyone and hopefully getting to Carlisle in a few months to meet in person.

@MarylandGuy welcome to the madness and good idea to have Alan sign it. Added value for sure 😎🤙👍

It is a great color choice, but I have to throw some clarification in the mix...

- Paint Code: 5707 is "Aquamarine Blue"

- Paint Code: 5606 is "Aquamarine Blue Metallic"

They are very two different colors. The 5606 is a lighter shade of blue and has the metallic flakes that sparkle in the sun. 5707 is a flat blue - which I believe is similar to the picture Alan posted earlier.

Here is a good reference link:

http://www.porsche356service.de/?page_id=49

I prefer 5707, but I am bias ;-) I wanted to keep true to my build and stick to the 57 paint codes. That has gone out the window with my coupe build... LOL!



76A2AD0F-C5E4-4B87-8B0B-DAC79D18C54D456A4AD8-2546-4CB3-A9D3-F655DDE23E7F

Attachments

Images (2)
  • 76A2AD0F-C5E4-4B87-8B0B-DAC79D18C54D
  • 456A4AD8-2546-4CB3-A9D3-F655DDE23E7F
Last edited by *LongFella

@*LongFella  thanks for the clarification.  This is definitely going to be the flat/non-metallic 5707 and not the lighter metallic 5607.  I also wanted to stay true to the '57 color code and the deep flat blue looks so good with a nice gloss clearcoat.   

I think we're looking at a June completion on this one which works well for me since part of the agreement with my wife was I would add a detached 2-car garage so my hobby didn't encroach on her garage space.  I already have a Jeep that finds its self taken apart at times. 

Paul

@MarylandGuy posted:

@*LongFella  thanks for the clarification.  This is definitely going to be the flat/non-metallic 5707 and not the lighter metallic 5607.  I also wanted to stay true to the '57 color code and the deep flat blue looks so good with a nice gloss clearcoat.   

I think we're looking at a June completion on this one which works well for me since part of the agreement with my wife was I would add a detached 2-car garage so my hobby didn't encroach on her garage space.  I already have a Jeep that finds its self taken apart at times.

Paul

It is a beautiful color in-person. That is one of the most common compliments I get when driving around - folks love the color :-)

So the Verdict is in ... Porsche 5707 Aqua Marine Metallic,  the gentleman that I'm now building it for likes the color as I do too.   Many outdoor photos seem to wash out the actual color shade, this is spot on .

Al, I do not think you posted the Metallic version  that color.  The Metallic version is lighter and I think the code is 5607.  This is a very expensive () paint sample of Aqua Marine 5707 from John Willhoit.   PXL_20201024_185258871

PXL_20201024_162140736

Attachments

Images (2)
  • PXL_20201024_185258871
  • PXL_20201024_162140736

For wheels we are doing the 4.25x15" 4 bolt slotted in argent silver with chrome baby moon caps so it sticks with the original look. 

Gold color badges on the exterior and two-tone on the dash with wood nardi style steering wheel.  First speedster, so I'm sticking with the classic look for now and absolutely following Alan's lead on the finer details as he is the master at this.

@calmotion posted:

@MarylandGuy love the right hand drive.

The picture is upside down.

Oh btw, welcome Paul, or MLGuy, the colour choices are awesome to me and building a garage will help with the hobby for sure.  I would just make sure it is high enough for a 4 post lift for your future additional cars and big enough for walk around space   When we built our garage we added a loft by doing a 10/12 pitch it added a lot of storage and a man cave potential.

Ray

Last edited by IaM-Ray

I think we need to have Paul do a short presentation, he not only got the Kitchen Pass on the speedster build, but also negotiated to include a new garage, there are valuable lessons to be learned !  Brandon my paint guy, did a spray out panel the other day to confirm the 5707 non metallic Aqua Marine Blue color. Brandon just had a third ( yes third !) spray booth installed a new top of the line $75k multi filtration unit. Early June is the estimated completion date,  Normally I would shoot for mid May /Carlisle but as we all know parts and supplies are slow to ship or out of stock these days. I also still have a few weeks to go on a the contract dune buggy build and somehow squeeze in a week in Florida to hang out with the best buds. Paul and his wife, have selected all of the specific components and it will be a Looker !

Last edited by Alan Merklin

Planning to make the garage 24' x 24' with an 12/12 pitch.    I need to research putting extensions to make the garage door tracks higher up.   Not a problem for a speedster but my jeep has a 3.5" lift and barely gets through the 7' high garage door let alone lifting it. 

For my purposes I think a quick jack from Costco should meet most of my needs, but may be worth jumping to another topic to play out the garage plans.   It was wife approval criteria last week, so still sorting the details.   

@MarylandGuy posted:

Planning to make the garage 24' x 24' with an 12/12 pitch.    I need to research putting extensions to make the garage door tracks higher up.   Not a problem for a speedster but my jeep has a 3.5" lift and barely gets through the 7' high garage door let alone lifting it.

For my purposes I think a quick jack from Costco should meet most of my needs, but may be worth jumping to another topic to play out the garage plans.   It was wife approval criteria last week, so still sorting the details.   

I have a 24x24 as well with 10/12 pitch and 7 x 9 doors. I could not go to 12/12 due to bylaw.   I regret not having made my ceiling 10 foot high as I could have added a 4 poster for a 3rd car. Also the staircase to the loft depending on the orientation of the garage can remove some interior space so it would be nice if the width on the side of the stair case was 3 feet longer, the width of the staircase.  BTW I have a 3500QJack, original for the roadster, and a 5000QJack, for my other cars, and one Hydraulic control that I use for both.  Planning may save you some regrets. Best of luck .

Whatever you build it won't be as large as you had anticipated, consider that work benches, shelving etc. take up 2 - 3' of useable floor space. IMHO  24 x 28 is a minimum but ideally 28 x 32.  Hang onto your hat and wallet as you discover current material prices..... 2 x 4 x 8 =  $6.50 and 1/2 CDX sheathing  $38 with the cheaper 7/16" OSB board at $28 a sheet. 1/2" sheetrock is now a whopping $12.    Back in the day I was a Yard Forman for a large Lumber company:  2 x4 x 8 = $.99  1/2 CDX $7.99  7/16 OSB $5.25 and 1/2 Sheet rock $1.25.

Last edited by Alan Merklin
@MarylandGuy posted:

Planning to make the garage 24' x 24' with an 12/12 pitch.    I need to research putting extensions to make the garage door tracks higher up.   Not a problem for a speedster but my jeep has a 3.5" lift and barely gets through the 7' high garage door let alone lifting it.

For my purposes I think a quick jack from Costco should meet most of my needs, but may be worth jumping to another topic to play out the garage plans.   It was wife approval criteria last week, so still sorting the details.   

My daily driver/work/play vehicle is a Toyota FJ Cruiser- 3" OME lift, 285/70-17 (33") tires and fits under the garage door with ¼- ½" to spare.  I'd love to put 285-75's (34") on it next time but it'll never fit in the garage again!

Doesn't matter how large you build it, it still won't be big enough.

When we had to tear down our 150 year old barn, I decided to replace with a nice bank barn/driveshed type of structure.  A bank barn structure fits into a hill, and gives you a full height upper/main storey, and a lower height bottom storey that exits the other way.

We ended up with a 28x48 foot building, and - as garages go - it has accumulated stuff over the years.  All of my three sons have stuff in there, my wife has stuff in there, there are lawnmowers, snowblowers, weed whackers, old furniture, music equipment, sets of snow tires, etc. and just enough room for my speedster.

No garage is ever big enough...

I'm seeing if I can squeeze anymore square footage out of it, but its a bit constrained by the proximity to my septic tank and drain field.  Trying to confirm with the health department on code specific to the drain field which is the main challenge for going bigger. 

The guy that does construction for me is super flexible on the details.  He said the same thing on being able to do an extra layer of foundation block to give me a bit more height. 

I just talked to him about the loft idea as I haven't thought of that, so he is going get the trusses to open it up and put in a basic staircase to get up there.   

Here is a sample 24x24 with a few steps going to a landing then going up to the second floor. You can see how the stairs take up some room and the way you orient your roof can change the stair case location as you need to arrive in the middle of the roof peak. Actually rotating this plan gives you an idea.   I would put the steps on the back wall if I was doing it again or add 3 feet. but it depends what you want to see from the road when you look at the garage or maybe you want to add a front dormer.  Some have put the stairs outside but then you end up with a second floor apartment.  All depends what you want or need to do.  This guy has only a single garage door but I would do two doors for sure.



This one has the stairs on the back side

This one has the stairs on the side.

Now you can put a front gable as below with window or no window in the loft.

You should look on the web or a plan it might help you decide some even put granny suit in the loft ...and it goes on.

Attachments

Images (4)
  • mceclip0
  • mceclip0
  • mceclip1
  • mceclip1
Last edited by IaM-Ray

I had my detached garage built 20 wide and 30 deep, and would probably go 24x24 if I did it again. Ability to park two-deep on the non-bench side didn't pay off as often as I pictured, and the narrow width is constraining. Re: lift height, I had them put in a 16x8 metal roll-up door rather than a conventional garage door, so there are no ceiling tracks. After you get a couple feet from the door, the ceiling is Ceilume tiles on CeilingConnex surface-mount right on the joists.

I've done this several times. A lot of time what you can do is dictated by lot and/or zoning restrictions.

I live in town, in a very old section of town, in a home I built a couple of years ago. I designed the entire thing to be as big as possible for the lot, and around a BendPak 2 post lift. I'm 12'8" clear to the ceiling, which was the minimum for the lift.

I'd absolutely go at least that high to fit a 2 (or 4) post lift now or later on. Whatever you do, don't put a 7' door in-- go at least 8', preferably 10'. You can mask the clear-span height by not using trusses and doing a front and rear gable, so that the vast bulk of the space is clear to the ridgeline of the roof.  24' is not really deep enough for a bench (unless all of your vehicles are Speedster size or smaller). The loft is neat, but stairs eat floorspace like nothing else and rob your height.

It's true that a building is never big enough, but I'd contend that going three stalls wide, 26 ft deep, with 13 ft clear (up) afford the possibility of 6 vehicles, assuming you have 3 lifts. Parking 2 deep seems like a great idea, unless you actually do it-- then you're forever moving vehicles to get to the one you want.

I heated the floor in the last two I built, and it's fantastic-- but I also put A/C in the one I've got now. A/C is worth whatever it costs. Also, insulate the heck out of it. It makes going out there a pleasure.

Buy once, cry once.

Oooo, yes Stan, a heated floor is a must on any garage I would build again for sure.  

I keep telling my wife we need a small house with a 4 car attached garage.  Hard to build and not make it unsightly if it is 20 feet high

BTW a very close friend built a 30x40 with very high ceiling and all white pvc inside including a ceiling rolling come along lift to raise an engine... just awesome.

Last edited by IaM-Ray
@IaM-Ray posted:

Oooo, yes Stan, a heated floor is a must on any garage I would build again for sure.  

I keep telling my wife we need a small house with a 4 car attached garage.  Hard to build and not make it unsightly if it is 20 feet high

BTW a very close friend built a 30x40 with very high ceiling and all white pvc inside including a ceiling rolling come along lift to raise an engine... just awesome.

I wanted to build a 4 car carriage house, with a 2 BR loft apartment upstairs. I had it drawn up and it was fantastic.

Alas, zoning wouldn't allow it. Pity, that. I planned to put a half-bath, and small kitchenette in the garage. A space like that with heated floors, a/c, and polyaspartic floors is as close to untaxed living space as you're ever going to get.

Pull the cars out and enjoy a 45 ft long holiday dining room. I've got the half-bath, the floors, and HVAC in our attached space, and we use it all the time for a game room when family comes over.

My main trouble was getting drywallers, painters, etc. to think of the garage as finished space. I wanted as nice as finish out there as I got in the house. It was a struggle, but we got it done.

I vote for the heated floor.  One of my cousins did that (he builds commercial buildings for a living) and it is heavenly.  Super easy to do while building, too.

When my wife told me she wanted to move back to New England from South Carolina (in retirement) I was less than thrilled.  In fact, I hated the idea and she knew it but here we are watching the snow fall in Grafton, MA just the same.  I found that being close to grandkids can be a big magnet.

One thing she offered to get me to be less hostile to the move was to build a 24' square, 2-car detached garage, mostly to house the Speedster and her car.  I was constrained by underground septic in two directions, but 24' is OK if you put your shop on the same side as the Speedster - they both fit.

Garage

This one is a pre-fab job from a company in Connecticut and has 11 ft ceilings (we just made the foundation walls a bit higher), a full attic and 8' high doors.  It was built off-site in parts and then assembled on-site in two days, including roof, siding and trim.  Access to the attic is via a set of pull-down stairs in the center, so no floor space is lost to stairs.  I think it's a 12/12 pitch so there is plenty of room upstairs to walk around (I'm 5'6" tall).  The walls are 2" X 6" and it's fully insulated but not yet heated or cooled (although I can get it up to 70F in about 40 minutes using a Charboil "Big Easy" turkey frier)

OK, so things I would have done differently:

  1. Radiant heat in the floor slab
  2. A "Mini-Split" AC unit (you don't need the heat side, given #1, but it's handy if you keep the shop at 55F all the time and want to bump it up when needed)
  3. A Bend-Pak 4-post lift.  If not that, then a 48" high scissors lift (I currently have the 3500 Quickjack for the Speedster but lust for something higher)
  4. Going to 26' square or even 24' X 30' would have been better for some larger machine tools, but I've found other tools in town to use, anyway.
  5. 220 volt 80 - 100 amp service (I opted for 110 only - bad forethought)
  6. Cat-5 Ethernet cable direct from the central house router
  7. Run high pressure air lines above the ceiling to the bench area and both bays

    That's about it.  Others will have more, I'm sure.

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Garage
Last edited by Gordon Nichols

OK, so things I would have done differently:

  1. Radiant heat in the floor slab
  2. A "Mini-Split" AC unit (you don't need the heat side, given #1, but it's handy if you keep the shop at 55F all the time and want to bump it up when needed)
  3. A Bend-Pak 4-post lift.  If not that, then a 48" high scissors lift (I currently have the 3500 Quickjack for the Speedster but lust for something higher)
  4. Going to 26' square or even 24' X 30' would have been better for some larger machine tools, but I've found other tools in town to use, anyway.
  5. 220 volt 80 - 100 amp service (I opted for 110 only - bad forethought)
  6. Cat-5 Ethernet cable direct from the central house router
  7. Run high pressure air lines above the ceiling to the bench area and both bays

    That's about it.  Others will have more, I'm sure.

^ All of that.

26' sq is worlds better than 24' sq.

I love the heated floor, but I'll say it again-- A/C is something you'll never, ever go back on. The A/C costs less.

You need at least 100a/240v for the garage.

A real lift is all that. A 4-post is ideal for storing cars, a 2-post for working on them. Eventually having both is worth planning for.

Regarding the air lines-- I put mine on the surface, which is nicer than burying them. I ran my 110v circuits in the wall, and my 240v in conduit on the surface. It's better that way.

One thing Gordon didn't mention is lights. Put more lights in that you think you'll need. Then put more in. Then put under-cabinet lights in for the benches. Then put 4x as many outlets as you think you might need in. I've got a double-gang (4 outlet) box every 4 ft on my walls (all 4 ft up). I still find myself wanting more.

Last edited by Stan Galat

I have a feeling that hanging out with this crew will be bad on my bank account.  Attached is what I had sketched up.  It has a bump out in the front to match up with my house facade.  After I get some guidance on septic field distance from the county, I'll basically stretch out the dimensions accordingly.   The long side would be 24' and the short side 22', but based on what I'm reading here I should try to get that to 26' on the long side with the steps to the loft and 24' on the short side.    Our existing garage is 22' deep which works ok since it is 32' wide and my workbench is on the side, so I thought 22' would work. 

I'll have to see how much cost is involved in heated floors, but I do like the mini-split idea to keep it climate controlled in all seasons.  My electrician is coming out Tuesday to take a look, so I'll ask what kind of service I need to be able to run a mini-split.  The units themselves aren't that expensive and easy to setup.   I just don't want to have to run another main or anything over the top like that...  After all, this was just intended to hold a few more toys, and you guys already have me expanding to a separate home and small business space!

Attachments

Images (2)
  • 20210207_134746
  • 20210207_155914

Lighting:  Lots of discount places have 4-foot LED shop lights for under $15 bucks each.  

https://www.oceanstatejoblot.c...-watt/product/213080

Not as classy as recessed LED lighting, but they're CHEAP!  At that price, you can run 8 - 12 of them and have fantastic lighting with almost zero shadows anywhere in the shop and all of them, together, would be around 150 watts.  That's mice-nuts!  I currently have recessed LED pot lights right over the bench and 4' LED lights under the upper cabinets, then four 4' LED shop lights hanging from the ceiling.  I intend to add four more hangers this year.

I was just chuckling, though - When I was working I built a prototype lab for one of my groups and we installed an entire ceiling of LED light panels.  You could wave your hand over any bench in the room and never see a shadow.  THAT was cool!  (and wicked expensive, but we buried the cost across several other projects).  

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

Stan that could of been awesome with 4 cars.  Well,  I did not do the half bath,  but I do have cat-5 and 220V and full insulation, but a second floor habitation is a no brainer but you can't get it all living in the city.  

As to drywall, I would do plywood it just is more practical  at least in certain areas of the work area.

Anyone with a garage loft will agree the correct label is the Great Abyss. The home shop in PA  was speedster build specific but my 30 plus totes of  mechanical VW parts and Speedster pieces on shelves across the entire back wall was the best.  Keep in mind an out of the way crud area for a bench grinder, polishing wheel and drill press.  Get bins for bolts and nuts and sturdy free standing metal shelving or build  16" wide x 9' plywood three tier shelving units. You'll also want a large bench mounted LED magnifying glass stand....also a small metal trash can for dirty rags and another for flammables. Air compressor?... might as well price one of those too~ If you are getting into this all in consider the builder  making a beam in the ceiling out of  two 2 x 8's with a 3/4" plywood glued and bolted in the center , then pass a sturdy screw eye through that and backed with a 3/8 square plate...so you are able to do heavy lifting. Agree LED lighting is cheap and bright ..in addition to 6 2 bulb  conventional fluorescent ceiling fixtures I have two 48" angles LED " shop lights" hanging at an angle over the car work area.... it' s super bright .  Heat : My PA home shop and house was total electric so $600 to $700 monthly electric bills were the standard. My natural gas  heating here in VW is cheap but a process...,  I have a single forced hot air duct into the 2.5 garage that keeps the chill down a bit but ten minutes before I want to work in there I fire up a 30,000 BTU free standing heater from Tractor Supply .. that thing is a monster and brings the garage from the low 40's to 85 degrees in minutes, the down fall is it consumes the oxygen in the air and I have to open the garage door every half hours to change out the air which sorta defeats the entire process. If you are serious about getting work done while you are out in the garage never ever have a place for the neighbors , family members or friends to sit as they do not know when to leave.  Beverage Reefer, yes but keep it well out of sight of guests.

Last edited by Alan Merklin

My Grandfather built my garage in 1950, then put all his tools and materials for the house in the garage as he built. When I got there, I had one 15 amp 110v circuit.

I insulated first, then did my garage ceiling in white melamine(masonite) panels. Put it up and forget it, it's white and shiny. Zero finish work, it's a garage after all. It reflects light very well.

The insulation of the ceiling, one wall and the garage door made a MAJOR difference. It holds my electric heat well in the winter and it's pretty cool in the summer with only an 8000 btu window unit. Concrete block wall, rough concrete floor, 19 x 19 feet inside.

I buried two conduits from the garage to the house. I have Cat5 to the garage and a wireless router out there. I ran 100 amp 220 out there too, the garage is 40' from the house.

The garage has an attic, and a fold-down ladder so no lost floor space. I have a Harbor Freight platform scissor lift and a 7 foot ceiling height, which works very well for a Speedster or a Spyder.

My next shop will be much bigger, but I can build a motor or tranny and still have the car in the garage.

I was out there all day today wiring my EFI. I keep it at 60 degrees when I'm working. Totally comfortable while you're working.

I ended up going 24x36 and now wish that i had gone bigger. I used mini splits for heat and A/C (both floors are insulated). I ran the stairs up the back - didn't want to give up the space inside. I do live west of Boston so this can be a bit of an issue with snow but still prefer this way. I've added a 2 post lift and it has been a fantastic addition to the space.

Last edited by Silvano Roadster D

Us Limeys tend to look jealously at all the extra space you guys tend to have.  My current garage is 50% larger than my last house but is still only 11’ x 21’, and 7’ high. With motorbikes, bicycles and the Speedster in, not to mention other large stuff like compressor, jet washer, lawnmower, gardening tools, paint tins, etc., I‘m glad I’m skinny enough to fit around the small space to work on the car. Anytime I do anything complicated, I have to spend time shuffling things around the garage like a sliding puzzle to get enough space to work. This garage has far more lights and power sockets than my last one and they both make a hell of a difference. Ditto a decent workbench and either racking, shelves or, in my case, a bunch of tambour sliding door office cabinets, purloined from our office closure last year.

But we always fill whatever space we have, don’t we?

The only real downside is that the garage door is on the 11’ end, so if I want to get a bike out, I have to get the car out first.

The one useful thing I have for our UK weather is a portable dehumidifier, because I’ve yet to properly insulate the garage and replace the draughty up-and-over single skin garage door.

I’m with those who said “it doesn’t matter how big you build it. It’s never big enough. And another who said my kids have stuff in it ... and my wife has stuff in it... and as Alan noted, all the tools, benches and parts stash take up so much of the space.  I just finished building what I say is my last house and shop not too long ago.  It’s full already.   Which has put me way behind on my Vintage Motorcars Coupe build.  The detached garage is 30’ x 60’ x 12’ ceilings.  2 Roll up doors on each end.  Highly recommend roll up doors to retain ceiling height.  The last pic was before the tools.. wife’s stuff...kids stuff all came out of storage. Love the  blue choice! I am considering for my coupe color. Hope to get to posting build pics soon!
Stephen

6C0D8DD3-DA55-4AE2-9620-CACB988EF7E0B78887B4-1274-4E98-B839-A01190FC014FFAAA3444-F3AB-4EE7-B680-A4CF6F5580C1

Attachments

Images (3)
  • 6C0D8DD3-DA55-4AE2-9620-CACB988EF7E0
  • B78887B4-1274-4E98-B839-A01190FC014F
  • FAAA3444-F3AB-4EE7-B680-A4CF6F5580C1

I'm jealous, @AllnuttS! (and all you other guys with big space)  I live in a townhouse with a double (19x19') garage (which sounds large, and is for most people), and while my Speedster, work bench, tool box and the freezer are on 1 side, the other is taken up by Beth's car, shelves along the side holding stuff for 5 people, fridge and built in vacuum, so space is always at a premium.  Oh- I forgot the 5 bikes hanging from the ceiling, and I keep looking for a used milling machine- don't quite know yet where it would go- maybe dump the big lay down freezer? (somehow I don't see that going over too well, no matter what the reasoning is)  Work stuff gets piled around the Speedster so any time I want to do something there's always re-arranging to be done (and then putting it all back so the family-chariot will fit back in for the night).  I'm willing to move (and ready to try to convince my lovely wife) but have yet to find a townhouse with an outdoor pool, hot tub AND garage that takes up the whole basement...  Al

@ALB posted:

I'm jealous, @AllnuttS! (and all you other guys with big space)  I live in a townhouse with a double (19x19') garage (which sounds large, and is for most people), and while my Speedster, work bench, tool box and the freezer are on 1 side, the other is taken up by Beth's car, shelves along the side holding stuff for 5 people, fridge and built in vacuum, so space is always at a premium.  Oh- I forgot the 5 bikes hanging from the ceiling, and I keep looking for a used milling machine- don't quite know yet where it would go- maybe dump the big lay down freezer? (somehow I don't see that going over too well, no matter what the reasoning is)  Work stuff gets piled around the Speedster so any time I want to do something there's always re-arranging to be done (and then putting it all back so the family-chariot will fit back in for the night).  I'm willing to move (and ready to try to convince my lovely wife) but have yet to find a townhouse with an outdoor pool, hot tub AND garage that takes up the whole basement...  Al

YOU'RE jealous? Hell, that "garage" is 50% larger than my entire 1200 sq.ft. house. I do have an attached garage, though, but Woopee!...it's a 1-car that houses a washer, dryer, gun safe, standing freezer, 2 four-drawer metal cabinets, and my "driver" car (2015 VW Jetta)...not to mention the bicycle and hunting+scuba gear hanging from the rafters. This means Speedie lives in its own 10'x20' secure storage locker 20 miles away. It's a royal PITA, but a guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do! And, before anyone brings it up, I'm not looking for any "sympathy". I already know exactly where I can find all I need: In the Webster's Dictionary between "sh#t" and "syphilis."

Last edited by Napa Paul
@DannyP posted:

@AllnuttS Why did you put a wall down the middle of that gorgeous space?

@DannyP  , check out the shop below.  There was a thread on this build on the Jalopy Journal, but the pictures are all gone now.  The bay on the right side was walled off from the rest. He used this as the dirty room for teardown and then as the clean room with air filtration for painting.  It kept the rest of the shop for clean work.  The guys work was really good.  The shop was way nicer than the house!



9cc16fdf624f109fe9ae2003fe214505--man-shop-s-style8836b87c46ea42910f30926c0947ac52

Attachments

Images (2)
  • 9cc16fdf624f109fe9ae2003fe214505--man-shop-s-style
  • 8836b87c46ea42910f30926c0947ac52

Having grown up with a 120’ X 40’ garage and a well equipped shop, it’s hard to pare down to a 24’ X 24’ and scrunch my tools into that small a space.  My Dad’s snowmobile shed was bigger than my current garage!!  Still, you live with what you have and make the best of it.  I only know of one guy in town who thinks he has more space than he needs but he’s always been kind of a jerk, anyway. The only child of a wealthy couple, he did very little with his life other than waiting for his inheritance.   Just to spite him, his parents both lived to 101 before passing.......  

I am blessed with a bigger garage than I ever thought would be possible—1,200 square feet, nine-foot ceilings, about four bays—with a 4-post lift, a 60-gallon compressor and a lot of 120 outlets and overhead lights.

It's been a fantastic workspace for a decade now, birthing the reconfiguration of our deck, the refurbishment of our living room, a 60-ton garden terracing of our back yard, the Soobification and maintenance of my MGTD replica, Projeckt Spyder, and multiple tables, chairs, carts, bars, and various and sundry fabrications in wood, metal, stone and plastic. Plus a lot of potting and over-winter plant storage and the absorption of some 70 percent of the old Merklin Motors shop inventory.

I cannot put into words my gratefulness for this space.

Somehow it's still never quite enough. And of course it's due for a serious overhaul of the lighting, sheetrock, windows and trim.

I'd like to pretend that, once that's done, I'll become "neat."

Humor me, boys....

I'm still working with the county to confirm setback requirements so I can build my paltry 24' x 24'...  What is crazy is that my property is 1.8 acres, but the county requires a 10,000 sq/ft septic reserve area that currently overlaps part of my garage location. 

I talked to the surveyor who did all of the original work on the plat, septic, and well design and she said I should be able to get variance exceptions and told me how to position it with county well and septic guys.   They are just slowly drip-feeding me responses this week which is annoying, but I'm hopeful I will get it sorted out without having to re-survey the whole property and do new perc tests on the soil. 

If I can get the exceptions I want, I think I can get it up to 25' x 25' or maybe 25' x 26', which from the responses here would be well worth it. 

But alas, my fate is with the county government on this one. 

A family member inspects septic tanks and field bed systems and he says the newer beds are quite compact and do not need as much length in piping, tiles.

Also, I have found that the building permit clerk will answer questions one drop at a time so it could talke you 3 months to get enough info to get a preliminary sketch or drawing approved on the location of the garage vis a vis la maison/ your house to the  whole land.

My suggestion is to go with a sketch and keep asking questions daily if you have to and ask where in the building code can you find the rules clearly written.  Reading you might find a solution to your problem.  Another way is to drive around your neighbourhood and look as how others have built.  It can reveal a way that others utilized to get around or get a compromise from the agency.

1975 I did my parents septic system in a lake community. Back then the Health Department was the go to source for info and inspections. I drew up a simple diagram showing property lines, house and the proposed system. The H.I. said I'm impressed with the detailed drawings most waltz in here with a cocktail napkin drawing and expect that to fly. I told the H.I. I was renting a back hoe on the weekend and dragging friends into this project. The H.I. told me not to back fill it in as he needed to inspect and take photos on Monday. , I reminded him that I was renting the back hoe the H.I. says to me I'm sure you have Polaroid camera, just take a few photos and that will be fine, I would never get away with that these days . That project was the last thing I did with my dad, he passed 5 weeks later.

Last edited by Alan Merklin
@DannyP posted:

@AllnuttS Why did you put a wall down the middle of that gorgeous space?

@DannyP,  Appreciate the compliment.   It’s been a dream to be able to have a garage like this and I am fortunate that my wife and kids enjoy the car hobby.  To be honest, working on cars and projects in the garage has given me the most rewarding and bonding time with my kids.   My son has exceed my mechanical knowledge and abilities in a heartbeat.  It’s amazing what they can learn on YouTube these days.  We had to buy Chiltons manuals when I was growing up.    @LI-Rick was correct.  Just that front corner is walled in for a clean room.  The studded wall next to the 4 post lift is now covered solid on both sides and ceiling being added to that area. That narrow area, left of the lift in the pic, is now covered with the wife’s door wreaths for every holiday and occasion. She uses the 2’ deep shelves to the right for other clean storage. I had to give her some room in the 1800 sq ft. The 4 post is really used to stack and store the toys for easy access and occasional oil change. The area in front of the clean room, is open and set up for a future 2 post lift.  That will leave the rear area open (~16’ wide by 60’ long with 12’ wide doors on each end).  I can drive straight through with truck, trailer or boat if needed.  Right now it has the zero Turn mower and too many toys in the way to do that.  Looking forward to many more years and projects with kids in this new garage. Enjoyed seeing other’s garage postings .

@IaM-Ray posted:

I got it you just have to change that "gun safe" for a Dr Who booth and you can fit anything in it ... Ask Musbjim ) he can travel with all the things he needs in a speedster.

Just had to.

I don't/can't understand "change the 'gun safe'." Where would I put all the firearms that don't fit into my other two gun safes in the house? I learned decades ago that while you can have too many cars and "toys" , ....you can't have too many guns.

@DannyP posted:

@AllnuttS Why did you put a wall down the middle of that gorgeous space?

I put a wall down the middle of my garage as well.

The longsuffering Mrs. Galat requested, "no more metal shavings" on her side or in the house. It works well to segregate the unwashed masses from more genteel folk.

I went from 3 stalls and 32 x 40 (x 14 ft high, then an 8 ft "hay mound" loft) barn at the "big house" to a space that defies description, but which is much smaller and at the same time more posh at the new "in town" place. Space saving went so far as to hang an 80 gal 2 stage Quincy  compressor from the ceiling above the blast cabinet. I can fit 4 vehicles in "my side" if I make use of both lifts. It's tight.

I can tell you this with absolute certainty-- it is far, far easier and less expensive to just build a big building that to try to make a small space work like a big one.

Last edited by Stan Galat

The design I have would make the garage ceiling about 10' high and it would have a 12/12 pitch roof which would give me an 8' x 24' attic space up top with 8' ceiling.  Plan is to put the steps up to it on the inside of the garage in the back, but some people in this thread have put them outside, which has me thinking about that.   

I'm going to stretch the dimensions as much as the county will allow me with septic reserve setback exceptions, but from what I'm seeing, 25' wide by 26' long is probably the upper limit unless I want to dig up and replace my septic system... at that point you sell the house and start over.   

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 20210207_155914

Conventional stairs take up a huge amount of space-- space you can't possibly have in a 24 ft square building.

You can't get anything but yourself up a spiral stairs, and spiral stairs are not inexpensive. They still take up a space 6 ft square.

When considering how to use the space above the shop for storing large and seldom used things in the big-house barn, I looked to old barns with haymounds for inspiration. Most of then had a ladder and small access on the gable end of the building (near the peak on an outside wall) then a large access hole with an insulated panel in the center of the space. The hay barns had a block and tackle arrangement hanging from the ridgeboard at the peak, allowing a person to lift heavy things through the large access. I had a scissor lift to use, but a simple Harbor Freight winch would lift everything you needed up into the "haymound".

I'd recommend a short extension ladder for the "man hole" access, rather than a straight vertical ladder on the wall, but either will work. Both access holes (man hole and cargo hole) can be drop-in insulated panels. This is much, much less expensive than any kind of staircase, and allows very large things (seats, spare engine shrouds, etc.) to be stored "up".

Whatever you build, plan on maximizing every square inch of the space, because you'll need it.

Last edited by Stan Galat

I may have mentioned this before, but my neighborhood was built and, years later the town came through and added a neighborhood sewer system.  That system has a “T” between my house and my neighbor with the mainline to the local pump/treatment center going between and behind our houses through a vacant field out back.  Everyone in the neighborhood connects to the sewer line right in front of their house.

I submitted the plans to the building dept and got a go-ahead for a garage next to the house and set back about 30 feet to allow access to the 1-bay garage under the house and was OK’d by the BI because there was no sewer interference.  So the next week I get a guy in to dig the trenches for the foundation and he starts doing a great job.  After getting the front and sides dug he started  across the back.  Suddenly, this pickup truck comes tearing into the driveway and some guy jumps out and comes running over to the excavator, waving his arms and jumping around and yelling “STOP!” until the operator stops.  

Then he tells us that he’s the Health Inspector and just checked the sewer drawings and my house is the only one in the neighborhood that doesn’t connect going out through the front yard - My house’s sewer connection goes out the back, across the back yard and connects to the main line between us and the house next door, kinda-sorta right where we’re digging.  

So, now that everything’s stopped he goes back to his truck and comes back with a “pipe sniffer” and starts at the back of the house, finds the exiting pipe underground and follows it across the yard and right behind where we’re digging.  The pipe is, quite literally, six feet behind where the guy was digging.  Normally, nothing should be closer than 8’ from a sewer line but he let us go because (1.) we had already finished the other three walls and half of the back and  (2.) it was only a garage and we weren’t going down more than 6’ for the footings, anyway (his drawing showed the pipe down 8’).

I’ve seen Mike, the HI, from time to time (he’s retired now) and we both get a good chuckle out of this house being unique in a neighborhood that has a lot of other eccentricities, too.  Just another day in the life of a small town.  

Great story, Gordon.

Sewers came through in Central Illinois farming towns in the late '50s/ early '60s, and are generally a mess. Many, many places just took the seepage bed line off their septic tank and connected it to the sewer (it was far less expensive and easier than removing the tank and doing it the right way).

The net/net of that is that eventually the tanks all filled up with sediment and plugged the laterals connecting to the mains running down the alleys. It often took 40 years, but we were still digging up long buried septic tanks and laterals across people's back yards in the 90s. I think I helped a friend with his in the early '00s.

Sewer work is why I never went into dad's (very successful) plumbing business. I just couldn't do it.

Last edited by Stan Galat

Sometimes those sewer pipefitters become heroes.  Chris Etre was the guy running the excavator for me that day, and he also does most of the sewer or water works all across town.  He's now a local hero.   I always buy him and his crew a "Box o' Joe" at Dunkies when I catch any of them in there.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/w...ng-vehicle/30230407#

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

I've got a hatch into my rafters. The space above is small and cramped by trusses, but the PO—who was a head taller and 100 pounds heavier than me—did store several items up there "long term."

One such item is a stainless (or polished aluminum?) diamond plate locking pickup truck box, sized for an unknown make and model of common American Monster Truck (my guy had both Ford and Dodge parts strewn about the place when we moved in). I've never touched it in 10 year's residence but I probably ought to haul it down and put it on Craigslist.

Not absolutely sure how I could do that. The thing is big, if not heavy, and the slot in the ceiling is narrow. I foresee terrible trouble if/when I try to wrestle it down, even as I envision the PO having put it up there as easily as I might stow a box of facial tissues on top of the fridge.

The other great find up there was an engine hoist. To get it down, in pieces, I parked my pickup truck under the hole and bolted a comealong to the ridge beam. It did take some doing.

All of which is my long way of endorsing @Stan Galat's advice re big, outdoor hatch access with a built-in carrying beam above, with a smaller, ladder (or pull-down ladder! why not?) access inside.

It's easy and classic and inexpensive it just works.

But consider one other option, if you will:

The common 4-post lifts do not require bolting-down to the floor and, in the case of my Direct Lift, came with a snap-on caster set which has allowed me to roll it around inside the garage and even, on one occasion, out on the the driveway.

If a 4-post is in your plans, you will have what amounts to a built-in freight elevator—albeit a somewhat balky one.

I have seen people build a platform on Ytube to lift stuff to the second floor, it takes up essentially enough wall space.  Mind you, you could have rolling counters, or work bench under it but you will lose the height.  I also have seen stairs that are lifted in the air and locked in place when unused and depending on the location it might work to allow for workspace on the side of the car is it is on one of the walls.

Many ways to do it. but the more complexities the less you will like having to move stuff around to do anything.

"All of which is my long way of endorsing @Stan Galat's advice re big, outdoor hatch access with a built-in carrying beam above, with a smaller, ladder (or pull-down ladder! why not?) access inside."

Agree.  When I had my replacement 'barn' built, I specified an external lift beam at each end, and a swing door just below.  I haven't used them much, but they are there when needed.

Attachments

Images (2)
  • 707
  • 708
@Stan Galat posted:

To be clear, you don't have to put a large exterior door and extended beam in the gable end (although that works).

You can put a hole in the center of the ceiling of the building, and create a panel that lays in the hole. Then simply secure a cable hoist to the ridge board inside the building and lift up through the hole. This method is 100% weather-tight, and super-simple.

A very neat solution!  That's similar to how I get into my attic, without the cable hoist that is, although that might be an idea...

I have a pull-down stair to my garage attic and it is very difficult to get stuff up and down. What I take up and down most often is wheels with tires mounted when I do the summer/winter switch.  It is hard to fit me and the wheel through the opening at the same time.  One time I dropped a wheel when I was squeezing through the opening.  Maybe I should consider the added hatch scheme.

@Sacto Mitch posted:

.

Ed, this reads like one of those FaceBook IQ tests.

How did Bob get both the truck box and the engine hoist out of his garage loft?

I'm betting he used the engine hoist to lower the truck box through the narrow opening, but it sounds like it's too late to do anything about that now.

When you sell the house, just list the truck box as an upgrade.

.

Nope. The hoist cannot fit in the space when assembled.

That's a cool video, Rick.

I have an insulated plywood door in the end of my garage ceiling. It hinges up and leans against the gable end, and is about 4 x 3 feet. On the main beam down the center of the garage I have a ladder hinged to the beam. I simply unhook the ladder and drop it to the floor, then climb up two steps and push the door up. Then I climb up to my "loft". The hole was there, the garage was built in 1950 by my Gramps. I merely made the door and hinged the ladder.

I have a chain hoist and have attached it to the main ridge in the past. I had both a 2.2l Suby motor up there as well as an extra Vanagon motor up there. Easy peasy. It's now full of cut-up Spyder body pieces, extra wheels and tires and a lot of JUNK that needs to be thrown out.

Alan is making great progress on my speedster and doing an absolutely beautiful job.   I decided I wanted a different interior from the beige that came with the kit, and also wanted to do at least some of the build on my end, so I partnered up with my friends mom who is a master seamstress and 2 amazing leather hides (butternut rum from leatherhidestore) to do baseball glove color leather and gray carpet.  Such a nice color combo with aqua marine paint.   Here are some pictures as we get close to finishing.

20210623_204903123_1[58)123_1[59)20210627_11115420210627_111148123_1[36)

Attachments

Images (7)
  • 20210623_204903
  • 123_1(58)
  • 123_1(59)
  • 20210627_111154
  • 20210627_111148
  • 123_1(38)
  • 123_1(36)
Last edited by MarylandGuy

Some parts that would normally be a simple bolt in  CMC's and FF speedster builds is not the case with the Thunder Ranch Speedster. The clutch pedal hook shaft, accelerator pivot cable arm both had to be extended to pass through the 1-1/2" square tube frame. I had to change the cable routing to make that function correctly. The pedal assembly sits 9/16" higher off the floor them normal that was a challenge too. Two new but slightly different VW gas tanks the bottom sections did not right into the molded fiberglass "Frunk" well so I'm having one of the two tank