I got my new VS exhaust and am installing it today. I have the headers tight to the manifold but all other bolts are slightly loose. The left pipe only has about 1/16 clearance from the plastic bumper and the right pipe has about 3/8". Is there any trick to adjusting these so there is proper clearance from the bumper?
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What happens when you tighten all nuts down?
That looks like the exhaust for a VW bug with the apron cutouts? They make one with lower exhaust tips for replica Speedsters. If it clears the rear apron ok - you can move the rear bumper up a bit by elongating the mounting holes. Replica one is below.
https://store.vintagespeed.com...ca-Exhaust-c33996769
uhmm, deflate the left rear tire10 psi.?
I bought the Porsche replica version 155-204-05200 with the pipes lowered in comparison to the VW version. Its just a little too close for comfort given that they flex a little when the engine is running and I don't want to melt the bumper.
I'll try tightening everything down, but it doesn't look like that will change the position from where it sits. I'll see if the bumper can move a little up too.
If you are able to get all the bolts snug, then wrap a rag around the tail pipe, push down on it a bit with your foot.. sound less than craftsman like but will work.
What Alan describes above I term "English". Sometimes a little force to bend things into place is the only way.
I don't know guys. I have everything snugged in now and the driver side is now touching the body and bumper. There is about 1/4 on the passenger side.
The tips on this one actually sit about an inch in from the bumper unlike the tri mil that protruded out pretty far. Therefore no way to get any leverage to push down on it with my foot. See the pictures below.
Is there any way to lower the engine slightly or anywhere else to adjust to make this work? Clearly not an option to have it touching and melt my beautiful bumper.
I'd try to move the bumper up just a bit. If that works, you can carefully cut out a crescent shape in the body to clear the bumper.
you could also try putting a pipe in the end of each of the pea shooters and lay a 2x4 across the pipes and carefully apply some of your body weight.
But if do what Lanes suggested, I think it would still look good with crescent cut outs. I had the Trimill and the pea shooters would rub on the ground going in and out of driveways. I like the shorter ones on the VS.
Paul, what I described is what I had to do on your exhaust when I installed it .. your Thunder Ranch bumper mounting is different from CMV VMC etc and would require some fabrication.
To protect the chrome surface of the exhaust I would apply the english to it in the following manner: Make a loop with a nylon strap and drape it over the exhaust tip where it rubs on the bumper. Insert a length of wood or metal pipe into the open/hanging part of the loop making sure nothing touches the chrome. Press down on the wood or pipe with your foot and see if that moves it enough.
I had a similar problem with my VS exhaust. Before you start trying to tweak it as described above, contact MT at Vintage Speed. He supplied me with spacers, gaskets and longer bolts to put between the flanges on top of the muffler and kick the muffler down a small amount. I'm sure you could use different thickness spacers to adjust the side to side difference also.
Email MT at Vintage Speed, he responds quickly and I have found him to be very helpful.
James
Thanks everyone.. I've tried everything suggested here (except cutting fiberglass) and it won't budge. These VS exhausts are built like a tank. I'm going to message VS as James suggested and see if I can get the spacers. I would feel much better about that then cutting out the body.
The guys at VS will take care of you
This is how it looks in my Vintage Speedster. Not sure if it’s normal but the tips don’t look horizontal but pointing down a little. Not sure if I have a broken transaxle nosecone mount.
I heard back from VS and the spacer solution that @James has will cost me $60 with 1 week shipping. Looks like something I could source locally since it is just 2 spacers and longer bolts. Does this just go in the connection between the headers and the exhaust so it pushes it down some? Amazon has stainless steel 8mm kits for about $22 + shipping an will probably be faster than coming from Taiwan.
The spacers are basically the same flanges that are welded to the exhaust pipes. SS flanges that are laser cut to the same shape and ID as the flanges. He also supplies another set of gaskets to match the flanges. You will need one on each side of the spacer.
You are correct, it simply pushes the muffler down a small amount. If I recall correctly, the spacers were about 1/4" thick and moved my tailpipes down about 1/2" from the body.
You could make or buy the spacers, but I don't think they are a standard shape/size and require his gaskets to match. Check the dimensions on the ones you linked to make sure they match. The bolts are easy to get. However, for 60 bucks, his makes for a really clean installation and work great. Just my opinion.
James
A muffler shop could cut the angled tabs at the top of each tailpipe, apply heat and move both tail pipes down then tack the cut tabs back in place, that would be the easiest fix.
It seems like your bumper may be lower than it should be. On my CMC the bottom of the bumper is about 1" above the bottom of the body. I did cut a notch in the body for my exhaust but it clears the bumper.
The bumper on Paul's Thunder Ranch can only be installed at one location as TR has specific placement anchors at that point.
MarylandGuy: A lot of the fixes suggested are "KISS" type and should be considered before getting too clever. You are going to be okay because you instinctively went to modifying the part to fit the car not vice versa. Modifying the part usually means you can go back if something doesn't fit/work
I have a lowered Thunder Speedster. For future reference, I found the VS lowered bus setup worked well for me. It tucks up underneath, single out pipe runs parallel to the muffler. There still may be a picture on the Aircooled site. I'm a VS fan, I like their stuff well made with good hardware.
Keep the shiny side up, and stay between the ditches.
My 10 year old son Henry and I took a 2 hour adventure today to a muffler shop and Napa + Advance Auto and got the parts for $25. Not as clean as the exact VS matching parts, but enough that I will be able to put in spacers and lower it to fit without modifying my car.
Getting a gasket with a 1.75 diameter hole proved a fools errand locally so I just got a sheet of gasket material and will cut to match tomorrow. I'll post some pics when I get it all setup and will do a separate detailed post on the full VS install for future adventurers.
Side note that Henry isn't into cars like my older son Brady (12, below in picture removing the Tri Mil) and was a bit aggravated that I dragged him along, but he is 10 and doesn't get a vote yet. I have to believe he will be positively impacted by my madness and quality time with Dad doing stuff that really is cool.
This is awesome; I believe this was a wise decision and you'll be pleased with the results.
It ain't local, but Summit has them.
"Getting a gasket with a 1.75 diameter hole proved a fools errand locally so I just got a sheet of gasket material and will cut to match tomorrow."
I hope you're not talking about gasket paper. That would probably burn up pretty quickly. You'll need a metal gasket like the one Danny provided the link for.
NAPA and others sell exhaust gasket material in a sheet, 12” X 16” or so.
i usually cut the hole with a hole saw for neatness and the stud holes can be cut with a drill set on slow. The outline can be cut out with tin snips as it has a layer of metal sandwiched in or is some sort of high temp material like glass fiber.
What I got is a metal sheet that looks exactly like the VS gaskets, but it has a layer of paper on the back that the Napa guy said can stay on when installed. I will send pictures later this evening when I get it all setup.
x 2 ...no thick paper gasket on the exhaust.
Well I'm feeling a little defeated. I got it all back on with the spacers and it is hardly and different... maybe 1/8 inch lower. I'm done for the night and need Miller time.
I will loosen everything up again tomorrow morning and see if something can. Move around to get it lower.
Here is a picture of the gaskets I made and the flanges/spacers. The metal sheet is what I cut them out of.
You probably tried this already, but loosen the connections on the front of the car exhaust to see if it will let the top gaskets push it lower. Are you close or do you need a lot more clearance?
I loosened everything again this morning and got it to reposition down about 1/4" from the fiberglass, but not feeling great about it. The point of contention is the connection to the heater boxes. The exhaust wants to mount level with them and they are rock solid mounted and won't give any downward angle. The way I got the extra 1/4" was to have everything loose and then mount the heater box seal bracket first with a bend in the connection. Then I tightened everything else. I'm not sure that position will hold after I drive it a while though. Here are some pictures.
Since you can drive it now, I would take it to a muffler shop, maybe tweak it a bit at the heater box and flange areas with heat. It wouldn't take much to make the adjustments permanent.
I agree with Alan; some heating up and tweaking should get you there. Like I said before the one in my car hangs down for some reason (see earlier post with photo); the tailpipes are not fully horizontal with respect to the ground but I believe I’ve seen these units on other cars with varying degrees of levelness. Not sure if it’s due to inconsistencies on the car builds themselves or the adjustability of the muffler. This is how mine looks from the back.
I think you all are right. At this point, there is no more basic adjustment to be had, so the shape will need to be modified... VS has my latest pictures and is going to have their engineer look at it, but not sure what they can really do at this point except for maybe create a custom set of spacers or headers that give it a different geometry.
I have to see what local muffler shops I have around... Alan seems to have "a guy" for everything, but I do not in my area.
If you can't find a muffler shop that can do it, find a welding shop.
A precise application of an oxy-acetylene torch will tweak it permanently.
I'd stick a heavy pipe INSIDE the tips, heat at the tip/muffler connection and bend. No damage and permanent adjustment accomplished.
I would try googling "Custom Car Exhaust Shops near me" and see what pops up. I just did that here and I know all of the top three are used by the Hot Rod guys because they ALL need custom-tweaked exhaust systems - Their cars are even more custom and weirder than ours are. Your area is no different than Massachusetts - Hot rods are everywhere.
I've been looking at your photos and we both realize that a spacer alone isn't going to drop the exhaust tips AND keep them level. There's going to have to be several steps taken to drop the muffler and keep the exhaust tips horizontal and a custom exhaust shop deals with this stuff all the time. They'll know what to do.
@MarylandGuy The spacers worked well on my car, however the difference could be that you are running heater boxes and I have J-pipes. The J-pipes allowed the muffler to move down easily. I got about 1/2" drop at the body with the 1/4" spacers. Also, the exhaust gasket material from VS is a little thicker and allowed more compliance at the connections.
As others have suggested, it may be time to tweak it a little with some heat. Just be careful, stainless moves a little differently than carbon steel when heated. As Gordon stated above, the tips will probably not be perfectly level when you finish. Mine have a slight angle, but are not noticeable unless you crawl under the side of the car and inspect carefully. Looking good!
I agree with @James that my main issue is having heater boxes since they are mounted to the back of the engine and have zero flex.
This morning I did some driving around my town because not all of these places have websites or show up on google. I was able to eventually find a place on a backroad only about 10 minutes away who has a whole car fabrication shop where they specialize in japanese imports and racing modifications (fast and the furious). I talked to a younger guy named Justin and he is going to free up a lift for me tomorrow morning so we can take a look and do a little heating and bending to get it in place. He showed me his project car where he is custom fabricating a drag car from the ground up using parts of an RX7 body, Honda engine, miata suspension and full custom tubular frame and roll cage that he built himself. I think I'm in good hands, but told him not to expect me to race him in my speedster when he is done his project.
I'm hoping this will be the end of my drawn out saga and loss of prime driving weather.
You’re golden with this guy; he’ll be able to help you out.
Great find. That's exactly the kind of resource you want!
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^^^^^ This!
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It took a few hours this morning, but we got the exhaust to have a little clearance by heating the heater boxes on the front side of the engine and bending them down a little. We also had to fabricate a thicker spacer for the drivers side to level everything out because the engine on my build isn't level. It is only about about 3/8 inch clearance on each side, but its no longer touching and looks completely level. Wasn't cheap, but the exhaust does sound great.
New problem... after I drive it home with no issue (10 min drive) and then go to fill up with gas later this afternoon, on the way back I get this loud clanking sound in the engine. I thought maybe it was the exhaust had broken loose or something and was banging against the engine. Pulled over and checked everything underneath and on top of the engine and nothing was loose or looked out of place. Started up again and it was idling funky and as soon as I started driving it was clanking again and the engine cut out. Luckily I was only about 1/4 mile from my house so got it to a point where I could drift it home in my neighborhood and the boys and I pushed it up the driveway and into the garage. I really don't see how this could at all be exhaust related, but it wasn't good. Guessing my plans to take it to the beach on Saturday are off now unless I can figure out squarely what this is and feel good about driving it far, but unlikely.
This madness can really be exhausting...
Pull out the distributor and see if the gear at the bottom has broken off.
Dan P helped me with something here; if you’re using a distributor with an electronic module such as Pertronix instead of points make sure the screw holding the module inside the distributor body hasn’t come lose. Just a single little screw can make tour life miserable. If it’s loose set the gap as per the module instructions and tighten the hell out of it or use a little blue or green Loctite.
I pulled the distributor out and didn't notice anything, but still learning and figuring out as I go. Here are some pictures.
@MarylandGuy posted:I agree with @James that my main issue is having heater boxes since they are mounted to the back of the engine and have zero flex.
This morning I did some driving around my town because not all of these places have websites or show up on google. I was able to eventually find a place on a backroad only about 10 minutes away who has a whole car fabrication shop where they specialize in japanese imports and racing modifications (fast and the furious). I talked to a younger guy named Justin and he is going to free up a lift for me tomorrow morning so we can take a look and do a little heating and bending to get it in place. He showed me his project car where he is custom fabricating a drag car from the ground up using parts of an RX7 body, Honda engine, miata suspension and full custom tubular frame and roll cage that he built himself. I think I'm in good hands, but told him not to expect me to race him in my speedster when he is done his project.
I'm hoping this will be the end of my drawn out saga and loss of prime driving weather.
Every one that owns a PCC needs “a guy.” Sounds like you found yours. 
Fwiw, my “guy” is building a tube frame turbo V8 240Z. I asked him what he wanted to do with it when he was finished with it and he said “live.”
As I'm looking at the position of the distributor shaft when I pulled it out compared to the 2 notches on the top of the gear, they don't line up, which makes me think it came un-seated somehow. Maybe he distributor came lose and lifted up slightly causing it to come unseated. Does this sound familiar with anyone?
Either way, now I get to learn how to fully install a distributor and set my timing, which was inevitable I guess. I'm learning too damn much in 700 miles, but better off for it and this was the reason for me getting one of these cars to learn my way around it.
@MarylandGuy posted:I pulled the distributor out and didn't notice anything, but still learning and figuring out as I go. Here are some pictures.
Two rules for pulling the distributor:
1. Put engine at TDC and make sure you're on #1 cylinder. Pull the cap and the rotor should be pointing to the hash mark AND the #1 plug wire in the cap. It's REALLY easy for you Speedster guys, the crank bolt and pulley are basically in your face!
2. DO NOT loosen distributor clamp. Only remove 13mm nut holding clamp to the case. The whole shebang pulls straight up and out. This way the timing stays set, or at the very least within a couple degrees of where it was. Do not turn the engine over while the distributor is out.
It appears you have points, so points eliminator module is not the issue. Do the points open/close "As The Distributor Turns" (a new soap opera)?
Sounds like a rocker/pushrod issue. Pop the valve covers and check out the valvetrain.
That’s what I was thinking Danny
...great, now I also need to become an expert on rockers and pushrods. I'll crack open the valve covers tomorrow and take a look. Any special tools I'm going to need to procure to test this stuff out? I'm new here but very handy across the board as long as I'm equipped to succeed.
Set of metric wrenches and sockets. I think 10 mm is all you need, but 12 & 13 might be handy to have. A good sized screwdriver to get the bail off your valve cover if so equipped, and a small flat blade for the rocker arm adjusters.
When you look in there you'll see something like
Sometimes a pushrod pops out, usually after a mistaken valve lash adjustment. And every so often a rocker shaft backs out wholesale & needs to be cinched back down.
It's never a bad idea to check the head nuts too while you're in there. Just in case.
wish i had a nickel for every 10mm wrench/socket ive lost
If swivel-ball-foot rocker adjusters are used, it is REALLY easy to bodge the valve adjustment. You'll end up with the ball on the valve, rather than the flat. This can make the valve loose enough to have a pushrod pop off.
If an adjuster locknut loosens, the adjuster can easily back off and cause this.
I'm really hoping this is your noise. Other loud noises are a lot more expensive than the pushrods and rockers.
Berg, Scat, and Pauter rockers use standard threads, and use either 1/2" or 9/16" wrenches. Most VW style rockers use a 13mm though.
You should be able to tell if you have a broken rocker as soon as you take you valve covers off. You will need a feeler gauge ,screw driver and a wrench. You will be able too find top dead center while you have them off just in case you didn’t get your distributor in the right spot
@MarylandGuy posted:...great, now I also need to become an expert on rockers and pushrods.
Yes indeed. FWIW, @MarylandGuy If I were you I’d pop your valve covers off and see if something is laying in there, like the broken valve adjuster in Danny’s engine build thread. If not, I’d take a time out, order a good book, and read up on where you’re at.
IMO, you’re getting advice that assumes a lot of automotive experience that I’m not sure you possess. No offense, honestly. I just don’t want you to get in over your head, get frustrated, and give up. Or get to a point where it’s going to be more expensive for a mechanic to figure out where you are and work his way back.
Once you get a good background of what you’re attempting, asking questions here and getting the excellent answers from the experts will be a lot easier.
I think Tom Wilson’s book is good:
How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen air-Cooled Engine ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/0895...oding=UTF8&psc=1
As is John Muir’s although it covers a lot of Bug-centric topics, it also covers stuff applicable to our cars like electrics, brakes, suspension
How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive: A Manual of St... https://www.amazon.com/dp/1566...oding=UTF8&psc=1
Then there’s the old standby, the Bentley manual. 
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@dlearl476 posted:.
...IMO, you’re getting advice that assumes a lot of automotive experience that I’m not sure you possess. No offense, honestly. I just don’t want you to get in over your head, get frustrated, and give up. Or get to a point where it’s going to be more expensive for a mechanic to figure out where you are and work his way back...
These are wise words.
This is not a difficult procedure if you've done it a few times, as have the veterans who are advising you above.
But it's not quite that straightforward the first time, if you're on your own.
Ed's photo above is of a pristine head on an engine that has probably not yet been filled with oil and run. And the engine appears to be on a bench, not mounted in a car.
If you don't have a lift in your garage, you will be lying on your back, with the valve cover a few inches from your nose, and there will be a small flood of oil spilling over you as you pry the valve cover loose (unless you're well prepared for what's about to happen).
You'll also have to monkey with the pulleys from the top of the engine at the same time in order to get the crank in the right position to free the valves you want to check/adjust. (And doing that can be a little confusing the first time, too).
Finally, if the valve check/adjust goes OK, you're left with the problem of thoroughly cleaning the valve cover flanges and mating surfaces on the heads and greasing the new gaskets so that everything seals up OK when you're done.
If you're not used to working on stuff like this and have never done this before, it can turn into a frustrating mess.
If you want to take it on, watch a few YouTube videos on how it all happens and maybe find a savvy VW owner (from a local VW club) who's done this before to hold your hand and talk you through it. That may cost you a case of brews, but it's beer well spent.
Personally, I am a total wuss about this kind of stuff. I used to do the valves on my old 2002, but that was a whole nother kettle of tappets. An inline, upright four, easily accessible from a standing position, where the oil drained away from my face, not into it as the valve cover was opened. I let my mechanic do the valves on the Speedy.
Just saying.
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RE: Bentley manual
I recommend the 66-69 Bug manual. It has 12 volt electrics, and either swing axle or IRS rear suspensions. It has the ball-joint front end which almost everyone has. The only thing missing is a link-pin front end(up to 1965), but they aren't that common on Speedsters.
I have one that I refer to for torque specs all the time(I forget that stuff!).
I have all of the typical mechanics power and hand tools except for a lift and the things I haven't needed for my jeep like and airflow meter, feeler gauges and other measurement tools specific to these types of engines.
I'm very comfortable getting around anything mechanical or electrical, and with following the lead of youtube videos and advice. Just still not sure how to interpret the really-bad and not-that-bad noises that can come from these things yet. Whole different animal, although not that complex.
I'll crack open the valve covers today when I can get a break between meetings, and see what I find based on the great pointers posted above. This was a new long block engine with only 750 miles at this point, so hopefully nothing major.
@MarylandGuy posted:This was a new long block engine with only 750 miles at this point, so hopefully nothing major.
In which case I think it’s highly likely something in the valve train just came loose. Hopefully nothing broke like the adjuster in the engine Danny was working on.
But if it did, it's a pretty easy fix.
Bingo.. only had about 10 minutes before my next meeting buy popped off a valve cover and one of the pushrods has come off. I'll get back in there later to hook it back up and try to get everything setup.
I would like to understand why this happened so I can prevent it occurring again.
It looks like your missing the nut that holds the rocker assembly down. There might be a washer floating around too. They might be at the bottom of your sump or on the left side of that head.
Yep, losing the nut would certainly do that. Hopefully the pushrod is not bent or otherwise damaged.
"I would like to understand why this happened so I can prevent it occurring again."
$#!+ happens. Maybe it wasn't torqued properly when assembled. Maybe it just loosened up.
My son borrowed my speedster to use as his "getaway car" at his wedding. It ran progressively poorer that weekend and finally gave up the ghost right after the post-wedding photos were taken. He and six other car guys in the wedding party made the right choice to not try to drive it and got it transported to someone's house. (I think this was written up in a post on here back in August, 2006).
Once I got in there I found a broken rocker arm shaft and have absolutely zero idea how it broke, but I got a stronger pair from CB Performance and installed those instead. He's been married 15 years now (I know, right?) and it's still running strong, BUT! I always check the torque on those nuts (14 - 18 ft. lbs.) whenever I check the valves. Just good PM.
Find your nut and washer. Remove the rocker shaft and all of the pushrods (place them in order to return them to the same place) and run a mechanic's magnet down the pushrod tubes to try to find the nut and washer (if you haven't found them yet). If nothing, then pull the sump plate and fish around in there to find them. Check the ends of the pushrods to make sure they're not beat up looking (both ends should be polished smooth) and put it all back together. Torque the rocker shaft nuts to 14 - 18 lbs. and re-check them when-ever you check valve clearance.
First continued thank you to this group. What a fun and collaborative community to be part of... I've been part of other communities where people are judgy and pretentious, but not here, so thank you.
I got the rocker off and all of the rods are straight and in good shape (kept them in the proper order so I put them back the same as Gordon suggested). Just a little rubbing on the one that came loose.
I found the nut that popped off stuck to the valve cover but no washer in the pushrod tube. I think maybe there was no washer on it and that is why it came off... do you guys really think I should go for a search in the sump for it or just reassemble with a new washer?
Doesn't look like there was a gasket on the valve covers but I have a set for when I reassemble. I just don't have a feeler gauge yet to set the valves when I reassemble it.
I will make sure everything is torqued to spec as I put it back together. Is there any torque spec for the nuts on the valve adjusters? They definitely were not really tight when I took them off. Just snug tight.
If the pushrods are steel you don't need a feeler gauge. They should be set to loose zero - zero but you can still rotate them with your fingers. If they are aluminum you will need a feeler gauge.
They are steel. I just did a magnet test to confirm.
is loctite accepted on this particular application
@MarylandGuy wrote: "I think maybe there was no washer on it and that is why it came off... do you guys really think I should go for a search in the sump for it or just reassemble with a new washer? "
Mmmmmmm.................... Well, you don't know for sure, right? Does the other rocker shaft nut have a washer under it? If not, then maybe not - Mine have wavy (spring) washers between the nut and the rocker shaft retainer. They may have just relied on the nut, alone. If the other nut has a washer, then start digging. It's possible your push rod got scuffed a ways down the length by the washer as it passed down the pushrod tube.
Pull the sump cover and that gives you a 4"+ hole to fish a magnet around in the sump and that should find it, if it's in there. Not a lot of places for it to hide in - Either laying in the valve cover (or on the floor after you removed the cover) in a pushrod tube or in the sump. That's it.
Just catching up with all this...."Bug Stuff" in PA .built this engine and I have trusted their work for many years. The push rods may appear to be straight to the eye but roll them on a piece of glass to recheck them . There should be wave washers on the other rocker shaft to head studs, if so then you'll have go looking . Hold the plate in place as you remove the 10mm acorn cap nuts then quickly pull the plate away from the engine this will create some "wash effect " as the oil dumps all at once then check to see if a washer is in the oil. If not, run your finger along the inside and or fish with a flexible magnet. It's good that you have the push rods lined up to go back in the same way they came out. Steel rods get set with zero clearance that being just enough to be able to turn the rod with your fingers.
it does have a wave washer on the other 3 bolts, so I will roll up my sleeves and get into the sump on my next break! Don't have the magnet tool, but will try reaching in there first.
ihave this $30 scope i got to find missing wire in wall, has 3' flexible, lighted scope,,,would be perfect to insert into the sump and take a look see
I don't use loctite on rocker studs. 8mm wavy washers are available at Lowe's. Look carefully at the rocker stud. They can stretch which would explain why the nut came off. They're about 2 bucks each.
When in doubt replace.10mm on the head side tapered to 8mm for the rocker. Rockers should all be loose when studs are torqued down. 18 ft. Lbs. I believe.
Roll pushrod on glass like Alan says.
Its as if you guys have all done this before 
All good news to report so far:
1. Used Alan's glass test and the push rods are straight -- still have the right order for when I put them back.
2. Drained the oil, pulled the sump cover and the wave washer was right on top of the cover so didn't need to reach inside or use a magnet.
Now I just need to clean everything up and reassemble later today, and also have to get my timing right when I put the distributor on.
Great news ! I do wonder why the nut worked loose, check the nut and stud threads Attached is torque specs ........... I think you mentioned you have a reference book to guide you in the correct sequence of valve adjustment .
Excellent, MG!
As for your valve cover gasket, are you sure it’s not stuck to your head? I think I see remnants of it on your valve cover. I’m pretty sure it would leak like a sieve if it wasn’t in there. (They often leak a little even if they are!)
They aren’t a lot. I buy sets of 6 (8?) on Amazon and replace them every time.
Yeah, in that last photo, with the rocker shaft (top), valve cover (middle) and push rods (bottom) zooming in on the cover shows me that 85% of the cover gasket is stuck to the cover and the other 15% is probably still stuck to the head.
Dig the gasket out of the cover channel (flat screw-driver or putty knife, just don't be too aggressive on the cover and scratch it) and then scrape the remaining gasket off of the head (a putty knife or razor blade tool works great here - Don't scratch the head surface) and you're ready to re-assemble.
Cork (brown) or composite (Black) gaskets work equally well. smear both sides with automotive grease so there is a thin, even coat on both sides. Let sit for 30 minutes, then wipe off excess grease with paper towels (yes, it's messy. I can't help that) and push the gasket onto/into the cover. It will likely bulge somewhere on there, but work with it and you'll get it and the cover in place without bulging inward or outward. Flip the bale (cover retainer) back up and that should do it.
Gasket:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/de...ver+gasket&pos=0
I have also found that, since the greasy gasket kinda makes your hands yucky, you might just as well smear the stuff all over yourself, too, before you start. At least that way, you don't miss any spots and will look like a true VW mechanic. 
And "the Madness: is getting strong with this one........
It was my mistake on the gasket. It is in there and in good shape, Just all black because of oil on it.
I going to find a video on setting up the valves to go through before putting it all back together. Hopefully my next post is confirming we are back online!!!
Thanks again... such an attentive group.
Don't be fooled by a gasket looking like it's "in good shape".
It was, up until you pulled the cover off, but now you've disturbed it's Mo-Jo and it'll never seal again. Get a pair of new gaskets (they're under 10 bucks at Advance/autoreilly's/NAPA) and do it right.
Touch a magnet to the push rods to see if they're steel or aluminum. How you set the valve clearance depends on which material they are. If they're steel (the magnet sticks) we'll walk you through how to set the valve clearance - it's easy. I would trust us on this before a Youtube DIY video.
Oh, and BTW: Your gas gauge dampener just shipped.
Oh, and PS: Yes, most of us have been through all this before. Some of us, MANY TIMES!
I thought I got my gaskets from Amazon. I was wrong it was eBay. 4 pairs for $8/free shipping.
https://www.google.com/aclk?sa...g96BAgBEDI&dct=1
So, a question for you guys with steel push rods: how do you determine “zero clearance?” I don’t believe I have a .001 or .002 feeler to use as a “no-go.”
The first time I did my valves after Blackline did them, they were very tight. Next time I had my air cooled expert do them and they’re even noisier cold. I suspect I have steel pushrods and neither I nor my guy realized it.
I tighten things until I can rotate them with my fingers with just a little resistance. I have to be careful to be sure it is actually rotating and my fingers are not just slipping in the oil.
^^That^^
You should be able, with dry fingers, to reach in and rotate the pushrod easily but with just the slightest rotational resistance. That's zero cold clearance (ZCC). But maybe you're not comfortable with things that tight.
When I do a check, I grab the end of the rocker arm and push it vigorously in and out. If it "clicks" then I consider that OK, even though it's slightly more (maybe .001" - .002") than ZCC. And, yes, my valves are a little noisy until things warm up - That's how I let my track-bike-neighbor know I'm going for a ride.
If it "clunks", then that usually means that the clearance is too wide and needs to be adjusted in. If it doesn't click or clunk, then it's too tight (for me, maybe not Blackline) and needs to be run out to ZCC.
You will probably need to reinstall your distributor first to be sure you are starting at cylinder 1. Do you have a degree crank pulley? Instructions will tell you to start with the distributor rotor pointing at the notch on the rim and the pulley at 0. Then adjust valves for cylinder 1.
Then, as the instructions say, rotate the crank pulley 180 degrees clockwise and adjust #4. The sequence is 1, 4, 3, 2.
I usually go contrary to the instructions and rotate the pulley counter-clockwise and do 1, 2, 3, 4. There is some risk of loosening the bolt holding the crank pulley.
Some people rotate things with a wrench on the alternator pulley. I use a ratchet wrench with a very long handle on the crank pulley bolt. My crank pulley bolt has a square hole I plug the ratchet wrench into.
I spoke with Paul earlier answering his questions on reinstalling the dizzy and rocker adjustments, should turn out fine. In spite of all this "sorting" Paul still retains his unique sense of humor :~)
@Gordon Nichols I don’t know exactly how tight Justin adjusted them, I just know the standard “Go” feeler wouldn’t go in any of them. I’m assuming they were perfect knowing Justin’s reputation.
@Michael McKelvey Good news on the 3/8” slot in the pulley nut. That’s cool.
FWIW, I like to pull my plugs when I do my valve adjustment. Makes rotating the engine easier without fighting the compression and gives me a chance to check them out and re-gap if necessary.
And if I’m not mistaken. even the stock pulleys have notches at 0° and 5-8° (whatever the static timing is. Can’t remember)
@MarylandGuy Remember the crank rotates twice for every full compression cycle, so at the TDC mark, the #1 piston will be either at the top of the compression stroke with both valves closed and ready to adjust, or at the top of the exhaust stroke with the exhaust valve open, so if there’s any tension on the exhaust valve, you’re 180° off.* (This is why it helps to watch your dissy, if it’s in place. It only rotates once per cycle)
Once you get #1 done, it’s easy to do the rest in order. (Unless you do like I do and mess up and have to start over.)
*I say this because someone who prefers to remain anonymous has actually tried to back his open exhaust valve adjuster out.
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Here's a YouTube video that shows how to do the valves, and a number of other basic maintenance chores. The first 15 minutes cover the valves.
You may or may not like the presenter (opinions vary quite a bit), but she explains things slowly and very clearly, for the beginner, and her photography is good, too, so you can see what she's talking about.
She has aluminum push rods, so uses a feeler gauge to set clearance (which you won't have to do with steel pushrods), but at least you'll see how the adjusters work. She also has a stock VW crankshaft pulley. Yours may look different, and may have slightly different marks, or may be marked all the way around in degrees.
There are lots of other YouTube vids, but you could do worse than this one.
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Also, a reminder: you want to adjust your valves with your motor Stone cold ie first thing in the morning before you’ve started it up.
(Although BITD, I used to adjust my Austin America valves with the engine running.)
Don't poo-poo the stretched rocker stud. Make sure they're both screwed all the in.
But before that, remove them. Measure the length of the studs, make sure they are exactly the same length.
There is a reason it came loose, and I seriously doubt the engine builder forgot to torque the studs.
@MarylandGuy Glad you found the washer, and nut.
When I set loose zero clearance, the pushrod can be EASILY spun, no resistance. If there's resistance, that isn't "loose zero". Lots of valvetrain clatter is side-play of the rockers themselves. If the rockers are properly set up, the motor should be quiet.
The motor I just built has chromoly pushrods and properly set Berg rockers. It doesn't make any noise cold, and I really don't hear it warm either. The exhaust is loud, but I could still hear clicking and clacking if it was there.
@Michael McKelvey posted:I tighten things until I can rotate them with my fingers with just a little resistance. I have to be careful to be sure it is actually rotating and my fingers are not just slipping in the oil.
Same here with my chromolies. The pushrods usually have a light coating of oil so to double check, I use Gordon's technique of trying to rattle the rocker arm against the valve stem.
If I get just a little bit of rattle when shaking them, that's where I like it. As Danny says, they are very quiet when they're right.
My AC guy says big performance engines are always louder than stock 1500-1600’s. It seems plausible, but I have my doubts.
btw, while we’re on the subject: Are pushrod tubes aluminum, steel, or tin?
While I was under my car today I thought I’d throw a magnet in the pushrod tubes and see if I could ascertain whether I had steel push rods.
The magnet stuck to the tubes, but less than the exhaust header. I figured if I had aluminum tubes and steel rods, the magnetism would be barely detectable. Am I chasing rainbows or is the tube just so thin it has less pull that the exhaust, and I need to pull one out to be sure?
I tried to follow all of the great advice and tips here and got everything installed this evening. Installed the distributor and aligned with the notch at valve #1, tapping it in to make sure it was seated really good. Got all of the valves set to what I'm hoping is ZCC... I went with pushrods able to spin with slight resistance and no clicking on a cold engine that hasn't started since yesterday afternoon. Even with my new exhaust the engine crank sounded really loud before this whole situation so it will be interesting to see how it sounds with everything ZCC, assuming I got it right.
Everything is torqued in to spec now too.
Only thing that was odd was on the passenger side the pushrods seemed really close to the tubes. Perfect center on the driver's side. See pictures below. Alan checked his buggy (he still isn't retired like he keeps saying) and it was the same so hopefully ok.
Only thing I was missing was enough oil to fill it and start it up. Will do that tomorrow and report back. Huge thanks to all of you and hopefully this being documented helps others out in the process.
@DannyP just reread your point on the rocker studs. I'll take it apart again tomorrow and check those. Then I can do a second pass on the valve settings.
One thing that was odd was that the nut that came off was 12mm while the other 3 were all 13mm. It went on smooth and tight so I don't think the pitch was wrong or anything but it was a different nut.
we need Click and Clack back with the straight scoop on this
@MarylandGuy posted:One thing that was odd was that the nut that came off was 12mm while the other 3 were all 13mm. It went on smooth and tight so I don't think the pitch was wrong or anything but it was a different nut.
Yeah. Metric hardware isn't super regular like SAE. The builder got the nuts from 2 different places. Stuff like that drives me nuts, but it is what it is.
@MarylandGuy 12mm head? Interesting, they should all be the same. I'd not have an odd man out.
I like to use the nuts that hold the heads on, they are a 15mm wrench size, spreads the load out across the rocker better. I install those without washers. I guess blue Loctite is OK there, as someone suggested above.
Looks like you may have to shim the rockers. Try first loosening all the adjusters. Then loosen the rocker nuts/studs. Try to slide the rocker over so the pushrods are more centered. If that doesn't work, you'll have to shim the rockers to center the pushrods better.
@MarylandGuy posted:@DannyP just reread your point on the rocker studs. I'll take it apart again tomorrow and check those. Then I can do a second pass on the valve settings.
One thing that was odd was that the nut that came off was 12mm while the other 3 were all 13mm. It went on smooth and tight so I don't think the pitch was wrong or anything but it was a different nut.
Sounds like the builder used one if the special nuts for Carb manifolds on your rocker. Standard for that thread/pitch is 13mm flats, but they make 12mm bolts with extra clearance for a thin wall socket for the manifolds. Someone even posted that they’ve had 10 and 11 mm bolts on their manifolds and carbs.
I would make them all the same, like Danny said, just for consistency. For that matter, I’m just OCD enough that I’d make a trip to a good hardware store and buy 8 new Gr8 nuts and spring washers.
Here’s a thought: was the 12mm one the one that loosened up and came off????
I have seen 12mm on carbs often.
Yes, the 12mm was the one that came off. I'd go to the hardware store and buy 4 Grade 10.9 metric nuts.
The thread should be 8mm x 1.25mm pitch.
@DannyP posted:I have seen 12mm on carbs often.
Yes, the 12mm was the one that came off. I'd go to the hardware store and buy 4 Grade 10.9 metric nuts.
The thread should be 8mm x 1.25mm pitch.
I bought a whole box from Wurth after fighting with the 13mm bolts on my manifold the first time I took it off.
Its such a PITA that if I can’t tighten the bolts all the way to finger tight with my fingers, I throw the nut away and chase the threads in the stud with a die.
I serious wonder it the lower surface area of the 12mm nut helped it loosen up and come off???
From David’s OCD Machinist’s Guide, pp 412:
When spring washers are made, they’re stamped out of a sheet of metal. The stamping process leaves one radiused edge on the top and a sharp edge on the bottom where the washer finally tore away from the sheet. That sharp edge should always go to the hard surface that doesn’t turn, not the nut. It helps the washer dig in, like a star washer in miniature.
