bad shocks or??

getting the envemo ready for driving season. still may put this gem up for sale...kinda on the fence. Love the car but have the itch for something else. Anyway, the car is slightly lower in front and that has always bothered me. today I put a bottle jack under the front beam and lifted the car to the hight I think looks much better. The beam is an old adjustable CB performance (I think they call it puma) beam. I did not touch any of the adjustors. When I removed the bottle jack, the car was still standing at the higher hight. Then I pushed down with considerable force the car settled to the lower hight. It took 2 heavy pushes. I did not here any gas sound or anything like that in the shocks. Before I tinker with the beam...what are the thoughts out there? Sound like dead shocks?

Probably want to start by greasing everything in the front end first. Worn shocks wouldn't cause that, but shocks with too high a damping rate for the spring rate might.

is it possible to be riding on just the torsion bar springs if the shocks are dead? How much "lift" should the shocks be providing?

I was always under the impression that shocks don't provide lift, unless they are air shocks or coil overs. They just dampen. Right???

Paul,, my 359 was too low in the nose,, and I did not have an adjustable front beam to tweak. So I popped in a pair of coil overs. On their softest adjustable setting, they raised things just enough. It also improved the handling a tad, and I still have the stock half inch front sway bar in place. I have the black shocks with chrome coil overs,,, but you could choose yellow and chrome as well. Alan

The car is always supported by the springs, the shocks don't provide any support unless as Troy said, you have air shocks. Also, suspensions just naturally sit a bit higher after taken off a jack. It'll settle once on the road. If it's more than an inch, though, the lube job is the first place to start.

Alan, those are overload springs, not true coilovers. But you've used them as intended, to fix a sagging suspension.

I'm gonna start with your advice first and lube the heck out of the front end. I think you may have nailed it...since it seems that there is some kind of sticking going on in the front suspension. It sticks when I lifted it and it sticks in the down position. How many grease fitting are there? so I'm thinking then that I need to adjust the CB/Puma beam to raise the front. I've read here that most recommend old oil filled shocks upfront anyway. so if my old oil filled shocks on the car now are shot they would be perfect candidates

OK, here is my .02...... On my Spyder, the rear end sank lower and lower over time, until it started to drag the exhaust on things it had cleared before with ease.... ( about 2 inch drop )

When I pulled the Cofap oil shocks, they had colapsed internaly.... I installed a full set of KYB (?) GR-2 s on the car and the problem was resolved....

So, yes it could be the shocks...... I did the replacement at about 3yrs... 12000 mi.

got out to the car this afternoon. well, the torsion bars are definately binding. found the grease fittings. the lower two were missing the actual fittings and you could see just a whole with the grease inside...visible grease didn't look so good. I haven't greased this in the 7 years I've owned the car. Out to the store to get two new fittings for the bottom holes. any recommendations for fittings? was thinking of blasting those bottom holes with some pb blaster or equivilant to losen things up first then greasing considering they were wide open to collect moister etc. over the years. So once the torsion bars are able to move more freely and not sticking I am assuming the car will sit at its highest point.

Leon, the KYB GR-2's are a gas charged shock. Gas shocks will raise the car as the gas acts like an internal spring. Oil shocks will not raise the car, new or used. It was just your torsion bars sagging from use and needed to be reindexed.

I wouldn't spray anything in there unless you are going to pull off the trailing arms, or the beam adjusters are open on the bottom of the tube. If it can't drain out, it'll dissolve the new grease too.

Justin......Not to start an argument, but the Spyder weighed only 1350 lbs. and the torsion bars were Sway-Aways.....The shocks had lost most of their oil and had a mechanical bind when bottomed out....I went with gas shocks to get away from a repeat performance and improve roadability...They were on the car 6 and 1/2 years later, still doing their job.

I've read a bunch on here about not using gas shocks. I'm going to replace my shocks while I am in here just because I haven't touched them in 7 plus years and I clearly have some parts binding in the front suspension. I was considering the KYB gas for my car which weighs a bit more than a speedster. it is listed at 1800 pounds without fuel. It has a full spare and the battery up in the nose and overall has a considerable amount more fiberglass plus the widder floor pans of brazilia (similiar to a ghia). If I go with the kyb gas I don't want to create a kidney bashing fillings out of my mouth ride. Any thoughts?

Paul...... Not going to happen..... The GR-2s are made for VW sedans which weigh about the same as your car...... The kiddney busters are the Gas Adjust shocks from KYB..... Lane Anderson runs GR-2s on his Beck and loves them....

lubed the whole front beam. definately moves a lot more freely now without any growns. I am still not getting any rebound in the suspension though. If I push down on the nose it will go down but not back up. If I get under the car I can push it up and it will stay...then push it down again and it stays low. what are the thoughts out there? bind in the shocks? I plan on replacing them. but wondering if I have isolated the rebound problem to the shocks.

Take the shocks off and try it out in the garage. That'll tell you if they're the problem.

should spring back without the shocks in...right?

Yup.

If not, keep greasing it. You can shoot a couple of cupfuls of grease into each side to totally load it - they can take a lot and it seldom comes out at the trailing arms, it just loads up inside of the tube.

replaced the shocks with GR-2's yesterday. wow! the old shocks were completely toast. all the creaks and groans from the front suspension were from these suckers. they both binded when pushed down. The car for the most part sits at the proper stance...only thing is the passenger side is about 1 inch lower than the drivers side. I am going to get in there today and lube up the front beam some more to see if I can get it to even out. Other than a possible sticking torsion bar what else might make the car higher on one side than the other? thanks for all the help guys! Paul

The previous owner had this thing for fat chicks and ....
Ooops, sorry, I was thinking Facebook again.

How does it sit w/ your weight in the drivers seat since they're typically driven solo?
Doug

I "un-friended" the fat chicks.

well I suppose if you had 15 pounds of air pressure in one tire and 24 pounds in the other the car would be a little lopsided. duhh.

It could also be that the opposite corner is set too high. E.g., if the right front is low, check that the left rear isn't set higher than it should be. Put a jack under the center of the front beam and get both front wheels in the air. See if the front and rear are sitting level side to side.

Paul..... The torsion bars should not be the problem themselves..... Their adjustment is usually the culprit.... The front bars do not adjust just one side or the other, but both sides at the same time.... (normaly) In the rear, an improperly indexed torsion bar will raise or lower one side or the other.... Most Speedsters run with neutral to slightly negative camber in the rear... ( Straight up or tilted in at the top.) Some cars have adjustable spring plates and they can be adjusted to some extent..... However, when you finish adjusting these and have the car leveled out, the adjusting screws should have the same number of threads (+/-) between the contact point and the block the screw passes through.... If this does not happen, then the bar on one side is mis indexed, and will need to be put in its proper place.
Until both bars are properly indexed, handling will be noticablly different when turning left or right.

anybody replace their beam bushings with the urethane replacements? It seems that these replace the outerbearing.

I am having a problem again with my right front sticking down again. I lubed the front beam and changed the shocks to KYB and it was fine for a while...then just the other day took it for a drive and now the right front sticks and does not come back up. I am going to lube it again but I am thinking that my outer tube bushings could be shot. anythoughts?

Paul.... You probably have the problem nailed..... I have no experience with the front beam bushings ( bearing replacement units ), but I believe Gordon N.does.... Earth to Gordon, earth to Gordon.....

Flash Gordon to Control!

Paul wrote: "anybody replace their beam bushings with the urethane replacements? It seems that these replace the outerbearing. "

Well, the top urethane bushings are a one-piece affair that replaces both inner and outer original needle bearings. Some people use a special puller to yank the inner bearing out of the torsion tube. I'm basically lazy so I use a suitable piece of pipe to drive the inner bearings farther into the torsion tube where they are out of the way, and then install the urethane units.

The lower torsion tube is a bigger PITA because the bearings are two-piece (inner and outer) and you have to do the same thing with the pipe to drive the inner ones farther in, then gently drive the inner bushings in and then mount the outer bushings on the trailing arm tubes and push them home. The humongous set screw on the trailing arm holds everything together.

Total time if you're experienced: 1 hour per side.

Total time if you've never done it before: 1/2 day for everything.

You WILL need to get the front end re-aligned as the new bushings will slightly affect your steering geometry enough to throw something off. Just plan for it.

gn

Oh, and I'm not a big fan of that clear, silicone based urethane bushing grease. The stuff seems to dry out in a year and then they start to squeak. Much better is CV joint grease, and the best thing to do is figure out how to drill and tap your tubes/bushings for grease fittings and then squirt them full of CV joint grease once a year.

thanks gordon,

I lubed it up again this weekend and it seems to have helped. Is it possible to just do the outers and not mess with the inners?
Paul