Skip to main content

Anyone ever put Borla fuel injection on a type 1 or 4. I love the dependability and power of my Suby Spyder but I really don’t need as much power on my 356 build. I would love the engine compartment to look more period correct and a frunk would be nice. I’ve probably got about 2.5 years to think about it. A dependable air cooled alternative would be awesome.

Phil Luebbert

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

The Borla throttle bodies are just that: throttle bodies. For $2k TO START.

You still need a pump, regulator, piping, ECU, wiring, and sensors. Oh yeah, and somebody to program it.

My whole system cost about $1300. If I had to pay for my CB throttle bodies, add $700.

So yeah, complete EFI system for the price of the ITBs. They are NICE, though. But worth THAT much? Not for me.

Not everybody's value equation is going to be weighted toward pure economy.

If it were me, Phil - I'd decide quickly, because a good air-cooled engine builder is going to be booked almost as far out as Special Edition.

I'd echo Ray's suggestion, but a nice 2270 T4 longblock is going to be $10K, before you ever buy exhaust, shrouds, or set up the EFI. To do that, I'd send the whole thing (dressed longblock) up to Mario Velotta at in Washington State.

What you'd get back would be dead-nuts reliable, cool running, and stupid-cool.

T4 is defiantly where I should have gone, except that I'm a pipefitter and not a medical doctor. You are the MD - get the Type 4.

@Stan Galat posted:

Not everybody's value equation is going to be weighted toward pure economy.

Mine is definitely not. I guess it is, but isn't, as evidenced by all the CRAP I've done(Autocraft, Pauter, and JayCee parts come to mind here $$$).

My EFI equation was cheap, as far as EFI goes, but it was more about DIY for me. I didn't have to change my throttle linkage, manifolds, or add in the trigger wheel and crank sensor that were already there.

A 2270 type4 is nice, but it doesn't want to WIND out like a type1 does. It will be reliable and make great torque, but they run out of steam right around 5500 or so. Or at least Lenny's does.

Last edited by DannyP
@DannyP posted:

A 2270 type4 is nice, but it doesn't want to WIND out like a type1 does. It will be reliable and make great torque, but they run out of steam right around 5500 or so. Or at least Lenny's does.

Isn't that just a function of the camshaft timing/duration?  Give any engine the appropriate amount of fuel, intake/exhaust volume and camshaft duration and it'll rev as high as you want- or am I missing something?

I’m more concerned about the reliability of the engine than I am the longevity. Sure if I go with Suby power I will get both. I just want the car to start when I turn the key and not leave me stranded by the side of the road. If I have to rebuild the engine at 30k miles so be it. If the type 4 is the way to go then maybe I should just save my pennies take a big breath and do it. Spending $3k more for a type 4 than a Suby is a little hard to swallow. Can someone build me a reliable type 1with the understanding that maybe it will need a rebuild after a few years?  I’m willing to accept that. But during those few years I need it to be reliable.
And then there’s the tranny. Suby comes with modern quiet 5 speed. If I go with type 1 or type 4 we are talking about a vw 4 speed or a very expensive Porsche 5 speed. I’m probably answering my own questions. But I’d really like to keep it old school. I think I’d be willing to live with the VW 4 speed if I could get a reliable type 1 engine that I don’t have to worry about or tinker with.  For the most part we are talking about 50+ year technology. So again probably answering my own question.

I think Stan is right, you are answering your own questions !    

Living with a full subie for 5 years the drive train is definitely quieter but not as smooth shifting as say a VW GTI 6 speed tranny.   The tranny noise is lower than the Type I, but depending on the builder of the tranny and the reverse R&P you can have some whine, but hey that is 2000-2010 technology in Subie land.  You could order a full new gear set to help it out.

It is turn the key and go, if you ever throw a code, having yourself a Code reader for your Iphone and leaving it in the car so you can clear the codes in an emergency helps a lot as the system is easily reset and you can get home.

You will even have the option of using the stock ECU that learns and adjusts itself and wire up and install cruise control if you want it.  For a cruising car a near daily driver you do not have to wait for the engine to warm up, you just go.

Obviously I made that jump 5 years ago so I am drinking this Koolaid, what ever you choose we will enjoy your build ...  So .....


Images (1)
  • mceclip0

Phil I saw your Spyder at Carlisle. Really nice. To me, there is no good reason to go with an air-cooled engine, except for "period-correctness" points, which are a dubious proposition when running a Bug engine in a supposed "Porsche."

Now...I do like my little 1915 Type 1 in the Spyder. It looks, feels and sounds much more like what I imagine a proper 547-1500 engine would. The torque band is a little snappy—soggy on the down mow and pulls pretty good up high. The Weber 44s and Knecht air filters look right. The big black fan shroud looks sort of almost right. It's a whole concept.

But...remember? It ran like crap up there because I had a clogged idle jet. ITBs and EFI would cure that for $3,000 or so, sure.

—But so does the EJ22 in my other plastic clown car. More power, much more torque under the curve. A very interesting sound emanating from the exhaust. I don't have to tell you. And it's turn the key and go. As long as I don't lift the bonnet, no one knows. And how could they even guess?

In short, it takes a special kind of atavistic dedication to stick with the air-cooled options now.

Look forward to seeing your next one.

@Stan Galat posted:

Is it getting warm in here? Yeah, I'm sure it's getting warm in here...

I'm not sure how warm it's getting in here.  Henry's carburetted cars never gave me any problems, and I loved the idea of 'old school' fuel delivery in an air cooled engine.

But, when I had the chance to go to EFI, and keep air cooled, that was a good choice for me.

Getting two extra cylinders didn't hurt...

I've had type 1, a built type 4 and now an inline 4 banger waterpumper from a VW polo and I'm miffed that I just didn't go straight to the water pumper and saved all the aggro.

Period correctness comes crashing to the ground, when someone just taps the side of your car.

My engine lid, when raised is to show off how I crammed it all in and it looks like it belongs there. The radiator up front is the same story. I show it all off with pride, just ask anyone who has seen my junk on FB.

From the outside the car must look period correct............the underpinnings though, hell, anything goes in my books.

What can I say ???  My a$$ will still be aircooled inside and out but my car won't be anymore !  If I change to SoCal Bruce and move to Arizona should I become SoCalZona Bruce ?  I guess even my  new car will be air cooled.....with water in between there somewhere !  Maybe we could call it Ware-cooled since it's water and air cooled !  

I recall that overheating problems are caused by : water not cooling the engine, or air not cooling the water, or a combination of both.  An air-cooled engine at least eliminates half of the problem !    Just having fun while I'm waiting..................Bruce

Add Reply

Post Content
Link copied to your clipboard.