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1EC6325D-D726-4A29-AEC8-00DCFE83433B37DB39A1-F2C5-4610-B6FD-B8262B2FB50065E8E496-36A9-404E-A19F-3C00930D8FC19C0B7141-7091-4838-AED2-47868BA9FF3385CADA39-5B7A-47A6-9C9C-B0F08DA414E5C78F8F87-787B-4C7E-9063-8EC371718D57BC79350E-46EA-4120-AA6B-E24A846B0A2503F10E5B-1231-4CE7-A6D8-AE26536F3D5DHere are some photos of the car.  It appears to be a well finish car compared to some of the other replicas I’ve seen.  The car has no paperwork, owners manual, repair manual or other identification that I can find.  The only VIN I found is the VW number on the shifter tunnel in the rear seat area.  The title only states 67 VW.  
Any assistance would be appreciated.  If a detailed photo of a certain area of the car would help, let me know.  

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@wrkinprogress

JPS buys their bodies/kits from someone else and finishes them.  This used to be VS and later both VM and Athos.  The most common older JPS (up to a few years ago when Kirk sold out) is a Vintage with a nicer paint job and a more finished interior.  I can't be certain that it is a JPS, but thats my best guess based on the interior queues that I see, but could be a VS also.  The seats and door panels are much more JPS than VS, but could be VS also, but again they are largely the same car with slightly different finishing.

Over the years several early (the 602 built) owners here have said had both the INTERMECANNICA cast hinges and the cast grill.  I've not seen one - but early IM were pretty much identical (except built in a controlled manner - not DIY) to CMC/FF.  CMC/FF bought out the Speedster from IM in 1979.  CMC used the IM molds and rest of the engineering (like steel sub-chassis).  I would stand to reason (?)  that CMC would not change molds to make the engine lid opening smaller to accommodate casting a new hibachi grill.  The bit built 3 bar OEM grill is perhaps 1/4" larger than the hibachi grill - so it is a chore to make it fit a CMC engine lid (complicated by the fact that the rain shield bonding attachment is impacted. Doubt I can find those old posts.

Mike - I too spent hours (dog hours for me) wet sanding and polishing my CMC cast grill.  I noticed that vintagespeedsterparts.com has the OEM style grill for $78.

CMC parts

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Last edited by WOLFGANG
@DannyP posted:

Troy, what is your general malfunction? Pick an argument and stick with it, you can't have it both ways.

I'm not sure why you think there's a malfunction here Danny and I don't see it as an argument like you seem to; I've been consistent.  If a car has a Hibachi style grill it's for sure that it's a CMC or Fiberfab.  If it doesn't have a Hibachi style grill it could still be a CMC or a Fiberfab that has been modified.   Where's the disconnect?

No Bob.  There is nothing that would prevent someone from installing any other type of grill.

The point of the original post was to help determine who the manufacturer was and then edsnova posted "Not a "hibachi grill" so it's not a CMC, right?".  I simply posted that was not necessarily right, because we've all seen CMCs that have been upgraded to the three bar grills.

I don't get all the confusion and the hostility of Danny's post.

Again Danny, you seem to be just a bit too sensitive.  He wanted to know who built the car and what you posted was not exactly correct.  If this was a car the original poster was considering for purchase I'm sure he wanted correct information. I posted for his benefit with no intention or desire to make you look like you didn't know what you're talking about or to "let everyone know how much I know." I've always felt that you are a great SOC asset and that you provide great information and knowledge to everyone on the list.  Just seems like a significant over reaction to a minor correction of some misinformation.

Here's a picture of Ted's CMC with a 3 bar grill.  It's a pretty common upgrade. 20210518_113224

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I'm really not sensitive, Troy. But do me a favor: define "lots" as far as how many CMC/FF have been converted from hibachi to regular grilles. My guess is statistically inconsequential, as in at least 95% of CMC still have a hibachi grille. As in, you know of a couple or even a few vs. the thousands out there. Anecdotal evidence does not a trend make.

So my post of likelihood of CMC because it's NOT hibachi is still correct.

A used CMC/FF, Vintage, JPS, or old IM can be a great car, make simply doesn't matter on a pan car. Unless it's a Street Beast, then buyer beware, unless built by an expert.

Cheers.

Last edited by DannyP

Fine Danny, you're statistically correct.  Let's move on.  @JCL. Based on the photos you posted the car appears to be a Vintage Speedster or a Vintage Motorcars build. If you post some pictures of the door latch and the engine lid hinges we might be able to narrow it down even more.  The reason I say Vintage rather than JPS is because JPS typically put the Speedometer on the right side of the steering wheel and also extended the dash covering all the way to the edge.  Vintage built cars stop about an inch or two before the edge. Additionally, I've never seen the small aluminum piece at the base of the windshield tension rod used on a JPS.

I was is Scottsdale today and stopped at Vintage Motorcar. After showing them the photos of the car, they were relatively sure this car was built by VS before they bought the company.  Their reasoning was the hand brake on the tunnel was used by VS while their cars has the brake under the dash.  Also they stated the owner of VS left them no records of the VS cars and they could not find any record in their computer of the VIN I provided.  
Thanks for all of the help and comments.  You all appear to be very knowledgeable about these cars.  I did buy this car and at a later date I’ll probably be posting more comments as I dig deeper into it

Thx, again, JCL

@Jon T posted:

@JCL I believe this is what you meant to say?  “I was is Scottsdale today and stopped at Vintage Speedsters.”

Vintage Motorcars is located in Hawaiian Gardens, CA, and they are awesome.

Beautiful car, congrats!

Actually, this is where it gets stupid.

Vintage Motorcar (no "s") is Vintage Speedsters, Scottsdale.
Vintage Motorcars (with an "s") is Greg Leech in Hawaiian Gardens, CA.

Even more stupid: There is a third company called Vintage Speedster Parts, not affiliated with either of the other companies, providing overpriced aftermarket Chinese speedster parts.

Bonus stupid points: Vintage Speed in Thailand makes exhausts, shifters, and other parts for the VW aftermarket, and no small number of their parts have made their way into various replicas.

Here's some unsolicited advice from flyover country: if you are affiliated with this hobby in any way - for the love of all that's good, name your company something besides "Vintage".

Last edited by Stan Galat
@Stan Galat posted:

Actually, this is where it gets stupid.

Vintage Motorcar (no "s") is Vintage Speedsters, Scottsdale.
Vintage Motorcars (with an "s") is Greg Leech in Hawaiian Gardens, CA.

Even more stupid: There is a third company called Vintage Speedster Parts, not affiliated with either of the other companies, providing overpriced aftermarket Chinese speedster parts.

Bonus stupid points: Vintage Speed in Thailand makes exhausts, shifters, and other parts for the VW aftermarket, and no small number of their parts have made their way into various replicas.

Here's some unsolicited advice from flyover country: if you are affiliated with this hobby in any way - for the love of all that's good, name your company something besides "Vintage".

Here's one more for ya...

In Chuck and my dad's first venture together the car was called a Beck Vintage Spyder (early 80s), long before Greg and "Vintage Spyders" came along.  When Vintage Spyders started, Chuck said it was too confusing and dropped the "vintage" from his name, just moving to Beck Spyder.  Some early Beck owners and early literature read "Beck Vintage".

I also think Greg's early company was called "Vintage Spyders" before it became "Vintage Motorcars". I know that was the product, but I think it was his company name too.

I think I might change my name back to Beck Vintage Motorcars and we'll separate our racing division to Beck Vintage Motorsports, just to keep things simple.  LMAO ;-)

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