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Carlisle 20201 ...I have not entered into a Courtyard Marriot room contract because of the still current CV -19 ( PA still has strict guide lines in place) I will call Charity at the hotel after January 1st. and speak with here.  Hopefully there is enough interest to do Carlisle 2021and would think we would actually have a very strong turn out this year ..Your Thoughts ?

Alan. My thoughts are that it would be great if we could all gather at Carlisle this coming May, but I realize so much is up in the air right now.  I guess all we can do is to plan for it to happen, but with the realization that it may not.  I assume the Canada/US border may be open by then, but there is no guarantee that will be the case.

Perhaps I could hire a helicopter to transport us across the border, and drop us down carefully someplace out of the way...

Nothing would be nicer than to see everyone at Carlisle, 2021.

I would certainly love to see everyone and I plan to be there, assuming things are more under control as far as Charlie Victor (CV-19) goes.

AND assuming I have a car by then.

For a moment there, I thought you were talking about the USS Hancock (CV-19). That proud vessel lasted on the Navy's "books" just shy of 32 years. Hopefully, the China Virus will be long gone well before that tenure! 

Carlisle 2021 Update.    Ed and I just talked this over, we have not reached a decisive decision. Covid -19 still rears it's ugly head and keeping the health and safety of our SOC family in mind, we are asking everyone to save the May 14, 15th Carlisle dates,  we'll take another serious look at this again on or about March 1st .  Thanks for your understanding.   Alan Merklin & Ed Ericson

@Bob: IM S6 posted:

It's a tough choice, you two.  If it's cancelled, then that's two years in a row; but, no one can be sure of the situation in May, except that the virus will still be around.

At the risk of sounding cavalier and alienating myself (again) from my friends:

Every human endeavor has a risk/reward relationship, and we all fall on some differing continuum regarding where we accept the risk because the reward is deemed to be adequate. In my perfect world (not in the one we inhabit), nobody can (or indeed should) make that decision for you. The cornerstone of a free society is the ability to make self-determinate decisions.

However, we need to be honest with ourselves. There's never been a sure thing in regard to safety. Never. We all seem to understand this, given our choice of transportation. Waiting until there is zero risk to do a thing will mean waiting the rest of one's life, or insulating the experience until there is no reward left in it.

The virus is still going to be around this May, and next, the one after that, and for all the Mays we have left on this blue ball. The good news is that world is not defenseless anymore-- a not-insignificant portion of humanity has immunity or resistance to this virus in one form or another. By May there will have been wide distribution of the vaccine to those who are most at risk.

Threading the risk/reward needle is an intensely personal decision and depends on a lot of variables. As a group our personal opinions vary more widely than any congenial collection of humans I can imagine. I wish Alan and Ed (who fall on differing ends of a political spectrum, but who remain friends) wisdom in trying to make a decision, because no matter where they come down somebody will be mad about it.

That guy won't be me. Please don't let it be you.

Last edited by Stan Galat

Stan

I think you are a tad optimistic about the degree of immunity/resistance people have to this virus, and also about the volume of innoculations, or jabs, and they say in England.  Most medical professionals don't buy the 'herd immunity' idea at this stage of the virus, and in terms of the vaccine, only a tiny percentage of people have received it.

Yes, the virus will be around forever, and we will eventually gain some control over it, but that time is a long way off.  In the meantime, precautions are the order of the day - masks, hand washing, distancing, bubbling, and avoiding others.

There will be no anger from me regardless of what decision Alan and Ed make.  We all make personal decisions as to what we feel comfortable with, and that's the way it will be.

@Bob: IM S6 posted:

There will be no anger from me regardless of what decision Alan and Ed make.  We all make personal decisions as to what we feel comfortable with, and that's the way it will be.

That's all anybody can ask. We could argue all day, but there's no utility in it. At the bottom of the well, everybody's got to make their own choices and live with the consequences. We agree on more than divides us.

Be well.

Last edited by Stan Galat

When we cancelled Carlisle last year, there was not a single voice heard against that decision. Certainly we all deeply miss the gathering of great minds and great cars then there is Lane's Coupe Deville and other new creations to be seen including a fresh build Speedster I will hopefully have completed in time.  ( now in route from Colorado) So let's keep our glass half full and the Carlisle dates date open....Thanks ~

Last edited by Alan Merklin

OK, I'm going to be brutally honest here, so let me apologize up front.

The probability that I (and Kathy) won't be getting vaccinated until April/early May is around 90% because Trump's so-called "Warp-Speed" vaccine introduction seems to be running on impulse engines ("Yeah, if we get the impulse, we'll ask the Pharmas to ship something...")   There is about a zero chance that I'll be going anywhere near a crowd before at least July.  In fact, I've recently cancelled a bike tour in Idaho in September simply because I don't know what will happen between now and then and that's September, not May (not to mention that Idaho's infection rate is higher than New England).  

The Covid cases are ramping UP, not down, the hospitals are way over capacity right now, the promised vaccine shipments are not happening, too many people are STILL not wearing masks - the only deterrent we have right now - and I don't see any way I could possibly attend an event in the middle of all that.  You may think all this will be over by then, but I think we'll all still be fighting it.  Call me wrong, I don't care.  I intend to get through this.

I helped organize a 4-day 750 mile rally in Napa Valley in August 2020. Participants came in from NY, CO and CA. They had their cars shipped to Ferrari of San Francisco and made their own flight arrangements.

A number of the participants were over 65 years old.  A few at 75 years old.

The hotel accommodations had individual HVAC systems, no shared ducting. And the rooms were left empty 3 days after cleaning (ie. No one was in the hotel rooms for 3 days before the participants arrived).

All eating was done outside and socially distanced.

I know I won’t convince those that have made up their minds already. But I just wanted to share, we were able to successfully put on an enjoyable car event with minimum risk.

Kevin:  Back in August, California’s rate of new Covid cases was running around 5,000 per day.  California is currently ramping UP and is running around about 40,000 per day - about an 800% increase.  Given that, I would think more than twice about attending a group event about now and, given the upward ramp, until the end of this year unless you institute something like the NBA “bubble”.   Honestly, you can do whatever you want.  We both (my wife and I) have chosen to take no chances.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

FL inoculation is free for all over 65 yrs old (for now).  I'm scheduled for 19 Jan and 2nd follow up shot on 9 Feb.  Mine is thru county health dept but Publix and  soon Drs will have vaccine.  Some FL residents are upset that non-residents will get it too but there seems to be sufficient vaccine now - some are saying they won't take it.

I just noticed that my wife is no longer seasoning my food - I think she is trying to convince me I have it! 

Last edited by WOLFGANG

Glad you're getting the shots, Greg. My fingers are crossed that the rate of inoculation will pick up soon in Maryland.

As for the rest (above), fellas: let's not heat up this thread too much. It's going to be what it will be, and we're all going to handle it the best we can—all of us on here and the folks we depend on to make the weekend go.

Here's hoping the vaccination outlook improves in the coming weeks and months.

I'm in the planning stages of getting into this hobby and luckily I'm in Maryland < 2 hours from Carlisle!   Hopefully the event happens this year and I get a chance to meet many of you and see some beautiful work on display.    This has been something I've wanted to get into for many years and now my boys are getting closer to where they can build and learn with me.   

I think we are all looking forward to our extended family reunion at  Carlisle 2021 I did talk with Charity Scheffler from the Shippensburg Courtyard the other day, she is always ready and willing to go the extra miles for us . Keep the dates circled and we will look at the current state of affairs early March.

@MarlandGuy ... enjoyed the conversations this afternoon your choice of the  5706 Aqua Marine with the interior will pop and then some !

I am on the Pasadena/Glen Burnie line. When the weather is nicer, we sometimes make our way to Annapolis Cars and Coffee. There are others in the state but I signed a non-disclosure agreement and will let them identify themselves.

Happy to send you a phone number to gather at some point if you want to PM.

I have a Spyder, a Cayman and a VW Thing (wife's really). Two of those are likely to make it to Carlisle.

@Bob: IM S6 posted:

Well, if Ray can't make it down there, guess I'm in the same sinking boat.

Bloody hell - that will be two years in a row. 

Well there is someone who flew in from Turkey and refused the In bound Covid test and the forced Isolation to a hotel in Toronto.  He got a ticket for $800 then was escorted out of the airport.

He was interviewed and it seems that none of the fines are being paid as they are unconstitutional and get thrown out of court.

There is a secret passage way and I could tell you @Robert M  but then this list is not private

"There's got to be a smuggler's route somewhere you can cross the border at without getting caught. Lol" - @Robert M

@Bob: IM S6 @IaM-Ray You guys should load your cars on a cargo ship in Vancouver, Canada and disembark in Ensensada, Mexico. Drive up through the U.S. border crossing in Tiajuana, into California (a frigging sanctuary State) since they are not stopping any foreign immigrants (legal or not, or vaccinated or not). Then drive up to San Luis Obispo for the West Coast Cruise.

Last edited by MusbJim
@IaM-Ray posted:

Well there is someone who flew in from Turkey and refused the In bound Covid test and the forced Isolation to a hotel in Toronto.  He got a ticket for $800 then was escorted out of the airport.

He was interviewed and it seems that none of the fines are being paid as they are unconstitutional and get thrown out of court.

There is a secret passage way and I could tell you @Robert M  but then this list is not private

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@MusbJim posted:

"There's got to be a smuggler's route somewhere you can cross the border at without getting caught. Lol" - @Robert M

@Bob: IM S6 @IaM-Ray You guys should load your cars on a cargo ship in Vancouver, Canada and disembark in Ensensada, Mexico. Drive up through the U.S. border crossing in Tiajuana, into California (a frigging sanctuary State) since they are not stopping any foreign immigrants (legal or not, or vaccinated or not). Then drive up to San Luis Obispo for the West Coast Cruise.

Lol, that is really funny Jim I hear I can come back through the holes left in either Texas or New Mexico, do you have a recommendation, I am just biden-ing my time.

Checking in, gentlemen.

As things stand now, Mid-late May is looking pretty good. Yeah, a lot of folks will not yet have been vaccinated (including my wife and I, probably), but a lot of folks will have been. Barring a resurgence by some new and more evil strain, I think it will probably be safe enough for most of the folks on this board to risk, though masks will probably still be mandatory.

As for the linked article: it's not some Holman Jenkins nonsense. It's by Marty Makary, a Hopkins oncologist who has done a lot of work on the prevention of medical errors. He is not an epidemiologist but he's a smart MD with some pretty good risk management chops and his head is on straight. I interviewed him years ago after reviewing one of his books.

The gist of his WSJ opinion piece is: things may not be as bad as they seem, and they might be getting better faster than most experts realize. It is not a universal opinion; this expert is pushing back.

But it's worth considering, since we're obliged to plan things out a few months ahead of time.

"Hope for the best and prepare for the worst," right? I figure in this context that means "book the rooms and wax the car, and if it all goes sour, pull the plug and hunker down at the last minute."

I am cautiously optimistic we will indeed be able to roll Carlisle this year.

@Marshall posted:

Greetings,

Is it too early to learn about the likely agenda for Friday, Saturday and Sunday?  What's the best day to arrive and leave?  What does everyone do while there, e.g. dinners together, show and tell, fix-it sessions, isn't there another car show or something that's held the same weekend, etc???

Remember seeing an earlier show's agenda but can't find it now.

Thanks,

Marshall

At lot of folks arrive on Thursday with a few die-hards arriving Wednesday.  Most folks start leaving Sunday morning, so there's usually no agenda for that day.  Friday is often the best day as that is when the cruises usually are.  Not sure what Ed and Alan have in store for us this year.

Yes, there will be a registration form to fill out and return, no fees to attend but usually we mail in the cost of the Saturday evening banquet tickets which is always a lot of fun and good times.  Carlisle has been a top event for me for the past 13 years.  Great friends and great times and the biggest benefit of owning my Speedster!  Look forward to meeting you.

If your regular car is an import you can register it, which lets you drive it on the show field and get free parking. 😬

Ok, it’s not free, but it is close.

Technically speaking, nothing is really made in the US anymore so everything could be considered import.

They let me drive my Ford Explorer on, the year that was a rain-out. We didn't go to the show field but $35 is nothing one way or the other.

For those without cars ready or those hesitant to go, please join us if it happens. As one of the more recent to join........ The first year, we came up for the day. The second year, it rained out and we went anyway and the following year, came with the car. Short of the first, where no one knew me; I have had a blast each time. You seriously, will not find a better group of people.

Bingo, Chris.  The first time we went we were driving my mother-in-law's '03 Camry. It was '09 and the first person that came up and welcomed us was  Iron Butt Crosby.  They had me after that.  I had a questionable car at that time , got some advise , and long story short, we drove to Carlisle , the long way in 2019.  All back roads.  Mountains , snow and rain. Two days .  I might do it again, I forgot the pain.

I'm supposing that "The Boyz" from Jersey still have those big old Caddy or Buick Elektra sedans with the "6-man trunk".   The state police up here hauled more than a few of those out of a deep, flooded granite quarry near here decades ago.  Each one had at least one, often 3 or 4 bodies in the trunk.

We were all looking forward to the trial of "Whitey Bolger" up here, then he had to go and have a heart attack in his cell and die and screwed it all up.  Guess we'll all have to follow Cy Vance courtroom drama, instead.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

Heart attack brought on by a Psycho inmate beating the crap out of him, Gordo.  He was a very bad man and deserved what he got. His brother Billy, the president of the Massachusetts Senate , and the Boston FBI ran interference for him for many years while he was on his murderous rampage.    But I digress.

The gentleman who did it will not be available to chat with the Marriot folks for about 30 or 40 years.

Yeah, Chris, prolly Drake.

CARLISLE WE ARE  A GO ! Speedster & Spyders at Carlisle  2021 !

Covid -19 vaccines are in distribution and Pennsylvania is to
open up to at least 75% on April 1st per Courtyard by Marriott.

The short back story:
I began negotiating with CY Shippensburg PA for favorable room and
facility use contract arrangements discovering that the CY has new
management. I was able to resolve multiple proposed contract issues
inclusive of me being solely responsible if unreasonable financial
minimums were not met. The bigger issue at hand was that CY no longer
permits alcoholic beverages to be carried in coolers by group guests
as well as no outside food permitted (e.g. Friday Pizza night).
So there would be no beer and or wine coolers permitted whatsoever.

These items would have to be brought in on the sly which would have surely created issues. With these two major issues at an impasse and as much as we all enjoyed the outdoor patio venue,  we were not able to come to an amicable agreement with Courtyard Shippensburg, PA.

The good news is, we have a familiar venue! The majority of you have
met Courtyard Event Coordinator Charity Shreffler from past years.   
Charity now has two hotels one happens to be the  Courtyard by
Marriott the property we were at for a few years . Charity at CY Mechanicsburg, PA dropped everything and as usual said: “So it’s short notice I can make this happen”.  Hence, we are going back to Courtyard by Marriot on Gettysburg Road,
Mechanicsburg .

While we will not have the large patio venue at the previous CY,  we
will have the Hospitality Suite and the outdoor Gazebo etc. The Hotel is supplying cookies and beverages for our Thursday upon arrival from 1:00PM to 5:00PM  Also included is a free daily breakfasts for Friday Saturday and Sunday AM. There are  various options for food, in smaller groups to go to including the Bone Fish Grill, Pizza Grill, Texas Roadhouse, Dukes, Rock Bass Grill, Dockside Willy’s and many others as well as that cool Oldies Diner that is just down the street from our hotel.  With our event being planned with short notice at this moment, we do not have any group dinner plans in place but Connie, Ed and I will see if there us any venue available, if not we’ll wing it for Saturday . Ed Ericson will put together a couple of local TBA cruises etc.  Please respect mask requirements .

What You Need To Do:  Our event dates are Thursday May 13th - Sunday
May 16th .. some of us will arrive on Wednesday  May 12 .

Please call and reserve …ASAP:  Courtyard Marriott Gettysburg Rd Mechanicsburg, PA The room rate for either Queen or King is $129 plus the usual taxes.
Call 717-1766-9006 and be sure to mention Speedster Owner’s Group.

Check in is 4:00pm  (I assume that you can arrive earlier) and Check out is at Noon. Hotel reservation cut off date is May 1st 2021

Important: After you register, please.... post "Coming & how many " on this thread.

Carlisle Car Show Event details and registration here :

Carlisle Import & Performance Nationals (carlisleevents.com)

Last edited by Alan Merklin

Smell of crap?  You urbanites must not realize where food comes from.  Food comes from farms, and farmers need to use fertilizer to make the food grow.

Either they spread industrial chemicals on their fields - which do nothing whatsoever to help the health of the soil - or they spread organic matter - yes, manure - that builds up the soil.

With the rise of factory farming, too few farms actually have access to manure.  Using manure helps to complete the soil cycle, and keeps topsoil healthy.

If you actually thought about it, about four or five inches of topsoil means we actually can grow vegetables and raise animals, so you city slickers can eat.

So, that smell you smelled last time, is something you should appreciate.  It means some farmer is able to farm in a more natural way, and you get to eat more natural foods.

Last edited by Bob: IM S6

It was barely noticeable, and added to the "bucolic" vibe of the place. For those from more urban settings, that was dairy farm manure. Be eternally grateful it wasn't from an egg farm.

Any time you need to slow down for an Amish buggy on the road, you're probably going to get a whiff of manure from somewhere. I'm glad they were spreading it on the field, rather than dropping it in the road.

Last edited by Stan Galat

A true disappointment, you have no idea as to the work that was involved importing the Sweet Country Air . You people are unappreciative of my efforts.  Hence,  I will forego importing said aromatics for this year and as your mother's use to say;  " You'll have to do without " !

Hotel   Reservation: 717-766-9006

Last edited by Alan Merklin

And contrary to what Stan says about egg farms - really, what is an egg farm?  Do they plant eggs like potatoes, and they multiply underground? - Chicken farms I have heard of.

Just be glad the hotel was not next to a pig farm. 

People would have checked in on Thursday, and checked out on Thursday - and not the next Thursday.

It would be a same day exodus of screaming speedster owners...

Last edited by Bob: IM S6
@Bob: IM S6 posted:

And contrary to what Stan says about egg farms - really, what is an egg farm?  Do they plant eggs like potatoes, and they multiply underground? - Chicken farms I have heard of.

Just be glad the hotel was not next to a pig farm.

People would have checked in on Thursday, and checked out on Thursday - and not the next Thursday.

It would be a same day exodus of screaming speedster owners...

"Chicken farm" connotes roaster (meat) chickens. "Egg farms" have the same 4 hens in one sq/ft cages for two years, 2 to 3 layers high, crapping on the the other birds in the cage, or on the ones below them. Chicken manure smells like sewage that has been soaked in ammonia.

I lived across the cornfield from one while growing up. The egg farm was about a mile to the NE, which was not the direction of prevailing winds. However, if the wind was blowing just right-- WOW. My good friend lived on that farm, and when we would go over there, we'd gather eggs. I high-school, we'd load pullets (take them off a truck and put them in their cages) or hens being cycled out when they'd reached the end of their productivity. It was good money and nasty, depressing, horribly hard work.

Laying chickens in cages have to be "de-beaked" before being put in with other chickens or they will peck one another to death in short order. As it is, when changed out for pullets, the old layers have maybe 50% of their feathers left and are scrawny and mean. They will lay an egg a day for the entire time they are in confinement. A typical egg farm has at least 20,000 birds laying. It's depressing in the extreme. Cage-free eggs are one of those things that I do because I know what's involved when they're not.

An egg farm in a midwest summer smells worse than a hog confinement.

@Al Gallo posted:

Add 2 for us Alan.  The smell didn't bother me either.  I grew up around farms and worked for 5 Summers on a tobacco farm, starting a week before my 13th birthday.  Pick and haul, 65 cents an hour and all the nicotine you could ingest through your skin.

We have a whole different aroma around here when the marshes thaw in the Spring.

I like that too.

We call it skunk cabbage here...

As for all this farm stuff- I'm pretty much a city boy.  Never had the pleasure of working on a farm, but am familiar with what they smell like.  I know why manure is spread over the fields- it means food is growing.  In my later childhood there was a mushroom farm at the bottom of the hill, (a couple miles away?) and when the wind was just right- oohhh boy it was ripe!

Last edited by ALB

Is anybody arriving on Wednesday?

Karyn and I plan to arrive Wednesday but it is largely weather dependent. We've done this each year we attended to give us the flexibility. Rain on Wed, leave Thurs if no rain. Rain on Wed and/or Thurs and Sun, take something else on Wednesday.

I have a few things to button up for both the trailer and the top for the Spyder. If I get them done, it won't matter about the weather but it's already the end of March and I've done nothing.

Karyn wants to bring the Thing up this year so I have to contend with both cars, capability, weather, etc.

@ALB posted:

We call it skunk cabbage here...

As for all this farm stuff- I'm pretty much a city boy.  Never had the pleasure of working on a farm, but am familiar with what they smell like.  I know why manure is spread over the fields- it means food is growing.  In my later childhood there was a mushroom farm at the bottom of the hill, (a couple miles away?) and when the wind was just right- oohhh boy it was ripe!

we dont have skunk cabbage,,its called skunk weed:}

my Sis lives in southern Md. chicken growers everywhere,,on a hot day and the wind right itll take ur appetite away

In NY state, you need to be 60 plus for a vaccine at this time. I may be able to get an unused shot from a missed appointment, working on that angle. They could drop the age soon though and then I'm good. If they drop it low enough, Michelle can get one too LOL!

I called the hotel late this afternoon, but Charity had left. I'll call her again on Monday and reserve our room.

Seems they are changing information to suit needs. In the US, the FDA approved it based on two shots 3 weeks apart. I heard the same about pushing out the second shot so more people have some immunity versus less people with more. The equation was, 100 people in a house and you have 100 shots. Is it safer to have 50 people with 95% immunity (47 people safe) or 100 people with 75% immunity (75 people). Who knows if it's crap but with limited doses, it sounds like moving the goal post.



They are doing the same with schools. 6' distance until a few weeks ago, now 3 feet is safe. Schools simply don't have the sq. footage to do 6' and return all kids.

Not saying not true, just saying.

My wife and I spent January and February in Florida. We could have gotten our 1st shots there but couldn't get 2nds at home so we waited. Once home I registered with my county and received an appointment for April 24. That's two months after we got home.

Then we got a letter from our primary care physician's mega practice. I registered, received a response 3 days later and had an appointment 5 days after that.

My point, don't wait for the state, county or local municipalities. You have to take action. Sure eventually you'll get it but do you want to wait. I didn't. I live in the worst county in Maryland. AND, I wanted to come to Carlisle.

I work in a bike shop. The great state of North Carolina puts us under the same heading as transportation which makes us essential.

Most of us got our shots last week, then they ran out of them. I got the one and done. I signed up on line and the shot was given in a drive through and surprisingly fast and organized.

Most of us had some kind of reaction, fever, aches etc. I just got a little achy for part of a day. I got mine late in the day and everyone else got them in the morning. That might of helped??? Of course, I'm the oldest of our crew.

~ Carlisle 2021 Update ~      My wife Connie has stepped up and is working on possibly checking off yet another last minute check box for Carlisle , we're not sure if we can get this done tomorrow Monday, before we head out for ten days of warm sun on Tuesday. If not, we'll post after April 1st...In the mean time,.....CALL the Hotel and reserve your rooms ... ASAP.

What about you you crazy Guamanian? Are you coming? We always enjoy you and yours. PaulSent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: "SpeedsterOwners.com" <alerts@crowdstack.com> Date: 3/24/21 5:08 PM (GMT-05:00) To: PCH <pcholden@aol.com> Subject: Your Topic Reply received a like! == To reply by email, write above this line. ==New Like on Your ReplyYour reply to Carlisle 2021.... Save the Dates !:Modified our reservation.........Glenn and I will be there Wednesday thru Sunday providing the creek don't rise. PaulLiked by MusbJim.SpeedsterOwners.com - 356 Speedsters, 550 Spyders, Replicas and moreYou received this based on your notification settings. You can adjust your settings or unsubscribe anytime.------------------- Speedsters For Sale ------------------- ------- www.DrivenToys.com ------