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Two years ago I was diagnosed with moderate to sever bi-lateral osteoarthritis. The condition is work related as a result of my 23 years in law enforcement. Twenty-one years at the time of my diagnosis. That amount of time spent carrying an extra twenty-five to thirty pounds of gear around the hip, chest and back coupled with the constant entry and exit of a patrol car will accelerate the degradation of anyone's joints. I enjoyed several collateral duty assignments which were done in addition to our regular work schedule. I spent twenty years on the department's off-road vehicle team riding off-road motorcycles and snowmobiles through some pretty rough terrain with an untold number of crashes, spills, and falls. And lastly I spent sixteen years on the department's search and rescue team with a total of over 3,000 miles hiked with a forty plus pound pack, off trail, and sometimes boulder hopping while playing a deadly game of hide and seek. I have had a multitude of tears in the meniscus of both knees as well as prior knee surgeries.

It took our workers compensation provider more than one year to make the determination that my injury was work related and they have spent the past year and a half denying any of the treatment options recommended by the orthopedist. WC said no to ortho-visco supplemental injections and no to stem cell therapy. During that time I have continued working and my knees have continued to worsen.

That all changes tomorrow as about a month ago Workers Comp reversed their decision to deny surgery and agreed to replacement surgery. I will have a total knee replacement on my left knee on Tuesday December 3rd and in eight to ten weeks I should be having another TKR on my right knee. All of that will hasten my retirement which will come as soon as the doctor releases me from his care. The county's rules will prevent me from returning to work as a law enforcement officer with TKRs.

Chapter 2 begins next year, we'll see what is in store.

If you're not living life on the edge, you're taking up too much space!

 

 

 

Original Post
Robert M posted:

Two years ago I was diagnosed with moderate to sever bi-lateral osteoarthritis. The condition is work related as a result of my 23 years in law enforcement. Twenty-one years at the time of my diagnosis. That amount of time spent carrying an extra twenty-five to thirty pounds of gear around the hip, chest and back coupled with the constant entry and exit of a patrol car will accelerate the degradation of anyone's joints. I enjoyed several collateral duty assignments which were done in addition to our regular work schedule. I spent twenty years on the department's off-road vehicle team riding off-road motorcycles and snowmobiles through some pretty rough terrain with an untold number of crashes, spills, and falls. And lastly I spent sixteen years on the department's search and rescue team with a total of over 3,000 miles hiked with a forty plus pound pack, off trail, and sometimes boulder hopping while playing a deadly game of hide and seek. I have had a multitude of tears in the meniscus of both knees as well as prior knee surgeries.

It took our workers compensation provider more than one year to make the determination that my injury was work related and they have spent the past year and a half denying any of the treatment options recommended by the orthopedist. WC said no to ortho-visco supplemental injections and no to stem cell therapy. During that time I have continued working and my knees have continued to worsen.

That all changes tomorrow as about a month ago Workers Comp reversed their decision to deny surgery and agreed to replacement surgery. I will have a total knee replacement on my left knee on Tuesday December 3rd and in eight to ten weeks I should be having another TKR on my right knee. All of that will hasten my retirement which will come as soon as the doctor releases me from his care. The county's rules will prevent me from returning to work as a law enforcement officer with TKRs.

Chapter 2 begins next year, we'll see what is in store.

When I finished my residency, my attraction to malpractice law, product liability, and contract law lead me to apply to law school(went nights year 1 as I figured that my practice would slowly grow and I would have time).

Fortunately or unfortunately I became very busy in my office full time and was a bit fried after 12 years in school....but I LEARNED how NASTY Insurance Companies are and how workmans comp function and are in business to DENY claims, DENY coverage. I hate them and lent my expertise to anyone who wanted to fight them. They know that most lay folks do not have the funds, skills, or wherewithal to fight back....and folks are ruined by their bean counter mentality(fu*k them/pardon me) and I would guide patients to lawyers AND expert testimony to challenge bunko rulings.

They took years away from you by delaying/disguising appropriate cause/diagnosis/treatment to suit their bottom line.....it pisses me off and when insurance companies got appeal letters from me with 200 pages of research and standard of care affidavits from me...they paid and ran. I started class action fraud lawsuits that were quickly settled for breach of "informed consent" that approaches criminal negligence.

FOLKS....do NOT let a bunch of pencil pushing jackasses dictate the quality of your health and the appropriate treatment...if they are bean counters they will realize very often that tieing them up in court coupled with nasty publicity doesn't bode well for them.

ROBERT M sitting in front of a jury, describing his 20 plus years of physical work and skeletal abuse, garners big trouble for workmans comp(crap) and insurance companies. they see a guy limping to the witness stand with the insurance company"s lawyers wearing $1600 Brioni suits(LOL).

BE SAFE!

Robert M posted

That all changes tomorrow as about a month ago Workers Comp reversed their decision to deny surgery and agreed to replacement surgery. I will have a total knee replacement on my left knee on Tuesday December 3rd and in eight to ten weeks I should be having another TKR on my right knee. All of that will hasten my retirement which will come as soon as the doctor releases me from his care. The county's rules will prevent me from returning to work as a law enforcement officer with TKRs.

Chapter 2 begins next year, we'll see what is in store.

Good luck for a quick recovery, Robert. I've had a couple of buddies get that job done and the results have been fantastic. Quick recovery and no looks back. Best, Amigo. You earned it. 

My daughter is an RN and single mom (with 4 kids) who has been off work for more than 18 months on a work-comp claim.

She was beat up by a patient, which was bad. But the injury was aggravated into a disability by a work-comp bean counter practicing medicine without a license from some desk - who insisted on courses of treatment which nearly killed her (bad drug reaction).

I'm not a vindictive man, but I'd like to meet the idiot/criminal who maimed my daughter - not the incoherent patient who gave her the initial injury, but the insurance criminal who ruined her nervous system. I'd like to see him incarcerated. This state needs work comp reform in the worst possible way - it isn't working for small business, and it certainly isn't working for victims.

Hi Robert,

I just had a total knee done on October 7th. Yes it hurts like heck and the first couple of days is brutal pain wise.

If you stay with it and do the exercises they tell  you and go to therapy, it gets better.

There is a strap out there called Stretch Out Strap, you can get it on Amazon. It will become your best friend.

It allows you to stretch your knee at home and really helps.

I'm 2 months out and almost back to full flexibility.

Good luck!

Tom Boney posted:

Hi Robert,

I just had a total knee done on October 7th. Yes it hurts like heck and the first couple of days is brutal pain wise.

If you stay with it and do the exercises they tell  you and go to therapy, it gets better.

There is a strap out there called Stretch Out Strap, you can get it on Amazon. It will become your best friend.

It allows you to stretch your knee at home and really helps.

I'm 2 months out and almost back to full flexibility.

Good luck!

I’ll look into that. 

Robert...We will be hurting together. I'm getting my Rt. knee replaced on Dec 16 and my left ASAP after that !   It will be fun to compare notes.  I'm in so much pain right now I don't know if it will be any worse. I had to return from our home in Baja because of the pain and I ran out of Vicoden !  I was considering having both done at once but have been talked out of it.  Good Luck to you Robert !............Bruce

Is it possible that driving a Speedster has caused some knees to go out??!  I had my right knee replaced August 20 so I'm a little over 3 months out.  Good luck to you both, Robert and Bruce!   My knee is now perfect in every way---exactly like the original knee but without any pain at all.  Looking back on the process I wish I had known how it was going to go, especially that in about 3-4 weeks the pain would greatly subside and at 2-3 months it would be feeling great and I'd be walking completely normally.   At the one month mark I felt like I'd be limping, swollen, hurting, and on a cane forever  and it was hard to realize that my knee would be just great before very long.  

If I ever had to have my other knee replaced I'd feel a lot more confident knowing that yes, there is an end to the recovery.  I am hopeful though, that the amount of cartilage  in there will last as long as I need it.  

aircooled posted:

Robert...We will be hurting together. I'm getting my Rt. knee replaced on Dec 16 and my left ASAP after that !   It will be fun to compare notes.  I'm in so much pain right now I don't know if it will be any worse. I had to return from our home in Baja because of the pain and I ran out of Vicoden !  I was considering having both done at once but have been talked out of it.  Good Luck to you Robert !............Bruce

I asked to do both as well and my doctor said he won’t do it that way unless he absolutely has to. 
I’m at t-minus 2 hours until the saws come out. 

STAN GALAT:  In 2018, I spent 2 months in the hospital.  I'm embarrassed to admit I did not know what a tough job nursing can be.  The pros (and they are in every sense of the word) that cared for me were amazing. They often have to deal with folks in pain, and others under some tough conditions.  I am probably 30 to 40 years senior to most of them, but their maturity and demeaner was something to see.

You and your daughter probably already know this, nurses often give patients more than just medical care.  Let her know for I'm a fan.  I hope things work out for her.

Nurses....   ALL Nurses, ROCK!

I hate to have to need them from time to time, but always very glad to have them there when I do and they're always terrific.
***************************************

Boy!  @Robert M says he's getting a new knee and then it seems like half the site has had theirs done, too.  Bunch'a Geriatrics!   

My biking friend, Pat, had both of his done early in 2019 about 5 weeks apart and his recovery sounds like all of you.  He was back on a bike trainer 3 weeks after the second one doing easy pedaling.   In April, he was back on the road, in May doing easy rides and back with the Sunday morning crowd in late July, keeping up on easy/moderate rides.  The guy's a trooper.

The surprise (for him and us other bikers when we first saw him again) was when he looked at himself in a full-length mirror after a while and suddenly noticed that he was no longer bow-legged for the first time in his life.

At 21/y I crashed ( T - boned) a BSA bike into a '64 Chevy at 70 mph. I spent 12 plus weeks in the hospital,  had it not been for a Nurse on the graveyard shift  to notice I had almost no pulse in my right leg, I would have surely lost it. Over the decades I have been in the hospital for three unrelated major health issues .  .........Nurses are Gods gift to mankind , truly Angels !

Last edited by Alan Merklin

Just passed my 1 year after total knee. Was told wait another 6 months the pain should be gone. Was told wait for 6 months 6 months ago--hmmm sounds like the doc made it past the 1 year  time period. At 6 weeks they had to put me under to break up scar tissue since a PT that had never worked on me steps in and hyper-extends my leg and injures a tendon deep inside that nobody has attended to yet today. In fact 6 months ago a PT and doc thought it was my IT Band--guess that was not a good guess--WTF!!!! In 4 weeks I went from 95* on my way to healing to not being able to bend it 80*. This led to being knocked out again and having my leg basically shoved up my ass. Going in for a new opinion since I still have swelling daily, a hot spot near the knee cap, and daily/nightly pain from the tendon that my surgeon does not want to repair because he is afraid of infection. Yes---I am pissed!!!!  Yes, the healing is worse than what you had prior to surgery but it gets better--well most do--I am still waiting.

So far so good. Surgery was at about 12:30 and it lasted almost two hours. The doctor described my femur and tibia as dinosaur bones because they were so large. Took a little longer than anticipated but it turned out well. The pain is just as you guys described. My tolerance is pretty good but this is beyond that. The first Percocet I took didn’t make much of a dent in the pain. Just got my second dose and they doubled it. I was up and walking by 10:00 pm yesterday. Made it all the away around the whole floor. I’ve walked three laps this morning. A lot of foot traffic in the room today with everyone checking on me. Doing lots of ankle pumps, quad sets, short arc quad sets, isometric hamstring sets, and heel slides. Hard not to want to put a slight bend in the knee but that is a big no no.

Going home later today, I just don’t know what time yet. 

Thank you all for the well wishes and prayers. 

Last edited by Robert M

Excellent news!

I'll join the chorus and say do your PT! A little later in your healing, if you're a high-tolerance-high-work guy, ask your PT person if it will help to do more. Many of the exercise limits are set for normal folks and sometimes a little more is a good thing. BUT sometimes it's not, so ask first before you dive into extra reps. You sound like a more athletic person used to working through pain for his gain, so you might be capable of more than the usual joint replacement candidate. It''l help to know if going the extra mile will help or hinder.  Go get 'em, Robert!

PS.

I've had different recon knee surgery and as soon as they found out I could do more reps, they had me pushing it. It led to a remarkably fast recovery, but everybody and every issue is different. Have faith and press on.

Came home yesterday and got set up at home in the spare bedroom. Sleeping on my back is going to cause some snoring issues and I don’t want my wife to suffer through that. Not a lot of sleep last night either. Every move sent stabbing pains through my leg. Got my best sleep this morning from 5:00 - 8:00am. Started PT this morning and I don’t feel like my leg moved much but I did it anyway. Wowza, that was painful. My left thigh feels like it got run over by a truck and most of the exercises are for the thigh to make it stronger. 

I’m cracking on though. 

IaM-Ray posted:

Maybe Robert M worked for that devision and he is holding out on us... Just kidding. 

I never worked narcotics but it seemed like 90% of the people I arrested were addicted to opioids. As a trainer now I was responsible for developing our agency’s Naloxone program. Basically every deputy carries an opioid overdose blocking agent on them. It was my job to train everyone in the recognition of an opioid overdose and administration of the blocking agent. 

Opioids scare me and I’ve avoided using them my entire career. I would have liked to have avoided them now but nothing else would have worked based on the pain I’ve been feeling. 

Sleep has gotten much better. I was able to fall asleep in three 3 hour blocks without waking up. That was a success in my book. Can’t wait to get driving again. 

Robert M posted:
IaM-Ray posted:

Maybe Robert M worked for that devision and he is holding out on us... Just kidding. 

I never worked narcotics but it seemed like 90% of the people I arrested were addicted to opioids. As a trainer now I was responsible for developing our agency’s Naloxone program. Basically every deputy carries an opioid overdose blocking agent on them. It was my job to train everyone in the recognition of an opioid overdose and administration of the blocking agent. 

Opioids scare me and I’ve avoided using them my entire career. I would have liked to have avoided them now but nothing else would have worked based on the pain I’ve been feeling. 

Sleep has gotten much better. I was able to fall asleep in three 3 hour blocks without waking up. That was a success in my book. Can’t wait to get driving again. 

Naloxone is being given out like candy right now and there are all sorts of constraints by the Health Protection Branches of all countries. The predominant source is the street source, yet more and more constraints are being placed into law which affect the regular patients who need opiods for pain meds and some are being left stranded for their pain relief requirements as the health care professionals are stopping to provide any and all support due to the complexity of the new legislations.   Knee jerk reactions from legislators leading to new laws are not helpful.  We even have patch exchange enforced by law for normal patients who are using for a true medical need. And it goes on.

I'm already taking opioids. The pain in both my knees is terrible right now ! My Doc said to not worry about it. They will cut me off as soon as they see fit. I really hope that the pain isn't any worse than it already is.  I was stupid to wait until I got this bad. After the 16th I'll still be limping around. One knee to get better and the other to get worse trying to help the one getting better.  When this is done and healed, spinal fusion is next.  2020 will be a painful year for me.  I'm sort of glad that Greg has delayed building my Spyder for now................Bruce

The first time I met with the orthopedic surgeon he suggested both Visco-supplemental injections and/or stem cell injections and workman’s comp denied both treatment options. Everyone I know that has opted for those treatments has had a decrease in pain. I was willing to try them but WC said no. That left me with surgery as my final option. The surgeon said he’d like me to be older before surgery because of the expected life span of the prosthesis. I told him I was tired of the pain and just wanted a normal life. If that meant I was in a hover round when I’m in my 80’s so be it. 

Robert M posted:

The first time I met with the orthopedic surgeon he suggested both Visco-supplemental injections and/or stem cell injections and workman’s comp denied both treatment options. Everyone I know that has opted for those treatments has had a decrease in pain. I was willing to try them but WC said no. That left me with surgery as my final option. The surgeon said he’d like me to be older before surgery because of the expected life span of the prosthesis. I told him I was tired of the pain and just wanted a normal life. If that meant I was in a hover round when I’m in my 80’s so be it. 

Dad got a new hip when he was about your age, Robert. At the time (mid 90s) the expected life of a replica hip joint was about 10 years, and he was told that 2 was the limit. He waited about 3 extra years until a better, next gen joint came out, then jumped on it.

It was (by far) the best thing that could've happened to him. He was like a new man afterward. Pre-op he was inactive, overweight, and on a gentle coast to old age. Post-op, he was the old man that could work kids into the ground. He built 2 houses and 2 giant barns, pretty much by himself, and remodeled countless bathrooms, kitchens, and did room additions on a bunch of places. He rode his bike 500+ mi/summer with my kids and me, and was as tough as anybody I know until cancer took him at 77. 

He still had the original hip. You made the right call. 

Stan Galat posted:
Robert M posted:

The first time I met with the orthopedic surgeon he suggested both Visco-supplemental injections and/or stem cell injections and workman’s comp denied both treatment options. Everyone I know that has opted for those treatments has had a decrease in pain. I was willing to try them but WC said no. That left me with surgery as my final option. The surgeon said he’d like me to be older before surgery because of the expected life span of the prosthesis. I told him I was tired of the pain and just wanted a normal life. If that meant I was in a hover round when I’m in my 80’s so be it. 

Dad got a new hip when he was about your age, Robert. At the time (mid 90s) the expected life of a replica hip joint was about 10 years, and he was told that 2 was the limit. He waited about 3 extra years until a better, next gen joint came out, then jumped on it.

It was (by far) the best thing that could've happened to him. He was like a new man afterward. Pre-op he was inactive, overweight, and on a gentle coast to old age. Post-op, he was the old man that could work kids into the ground. He built 2 houses and 2 giant barns, pretty much by himself, and remodeled countless bathrooms, kitchens, and did room additions on a bunch of places. He rode his bike 500+ mi/summer with my kids and me, and was as tough as anybody I know until cancer took him at 77. 

He still had the original hip. You made the right call. 

Thank you Stan. I feel I did too but that helps confirm it.  As well as all of the other comments from people about how much better they felt post-op. 

Took the wrap off last night and took a shower. That felt great. You should never underestimate the healing properties of a nice warm/hot shower. I also switched to the cane this morning instead of the walker. I watched a video to make sure I used it correctly and it’s surprising how quick you can get around. It’s nice to have an extra hand while walking. The recovery continues. 


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arajani posted:

@TRP — Interesting comment! You’re obviously not in healthcare...

Me?! Nope. I'm an Executive Director for a technology company. The only gore I see is some of the solutions from our competitors.

It's not the leg so much as it is the though of the Dr and his crew sawing, hammering, and screwing things into his bones. Maybe I've seen too many episodes of ER?

Get well soon, Robert!

Last edited by TRP
IaM-Ray posted:

Hey, you can see all the lines drawn to get the jig ready to do the work and make sure everything is all lined up.  I see the foot is pointing forward.... All good    

I hope you don't mind me kibbitzing about the surgery... 

Not at all. As much as I dish out I sure better be able to take a little rubbing.

I’m hoping if he erred on lining it up that he made me a little taller. He’ll have to make sure he gets the right side level with the left. 

A couple things I’ve learned that will make the next knee easier and might make things easier for anyone who has this coming up, @aircooled Bruce, is this:

Make sure your bed is low enough for you to sit down onto. You don’t want to have to use a step stool to get into bed. 

Use a sleeping wedge instead of a pillow. It’ll give more support and you won’t be rolling over anyway.

See if you can get the equipment delivered in advance. Stuff like a shower chair, commode chair if you need one (I haven’t), a walker, and a cane. 

Order some nice gel paks from Amazon or somewhere and have them ready. Much better than cubed ice in a zip lock. And a couple pillow cases to put the gel pak in to keep it from damaging your skin. 

Several firm pillows for propping up your leg to keep blood from pooling in your ankle etc. while you’re in a good recliner. 

I’ve followed a lot of the advice here and it’s been helpful. Everyone’s life experience is beneficial for everyone. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N..._api_i_Avu6DbAHKY7CT

https://www.bedbathandbeyond.c...BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

And if you suddenly run out of gel packs, a bag of frozen peas works just nicely.

I have both of my natural knees but have had a bunch of sinus surgeries.  The last one was to open up a passage on the left side that had grown shut due to previous scar tissue gone wild.  My ENT guy was also the surgeon, a car guy and had a great sense of humor so before I went under, pre-surgery, I had one of the pre-op nurses write the following on my left cheek:

”THIS SIDE”

They told me he laughed like hell when he saw it.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols
ALB posted:

Good morning, Robert. Hope everything is going as well as can be expected. And good to see you still have your sense of humor...  Al

Thank you Al. Everyday is an improvement over the last. Sleeping very well now. Last night I slept from 11-2 and from 2-7 this morning. I’m sleeping on my side with a pillow between my knees. Dreams are much stranger though. Probably the pain meds. Lol 

Last edited by Robert M

I've been reading about all the knee replacements out there, so I thought I'd up the ante a little and show you my brand new bionic titanium "ass-backwards" shoulder. I put Speedie in her storage locker Oct. 1st, poured in some STA-BIL, covered her up and kissed her goodbye until next Feb. This year's hibernation wasn't because of the usual winter weather; it's because there's no way I'll be turning the wheel (left hand) while shifting (right hand) for at least 16 weeks. Check out the left shoulder x-ray on 10/14/19 and compare it to the x-ray taken 10/16/19. You Mechanical Engineers out there might notice why the procedure is called a Reverse Total Shoulder Replacement : See how the "ball" head of the humerus was sawed off, replaced with a titanium "cup" driven 6" into the arm bone, ...and a new titanium ball was screwed into the scapula with THREE friggin' 2" titanium screws - This is why I'm enjoying R&R for such a long time. I had my left hip replaced 5 years ago @ 70, this now at 75, and I've got a tentative appt. scheduled next July for the total replacement of my left knee. Me and Arthur Ritis are on a first-name basis! Let me know if any of you knuckleheads want an autographed 8X10 glossy @ two for the price of one! BEFOREAFTER

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Paul....Your shoulder looks very much like what the showed for a hip joint replacement in the class I attended today for knee and hip replacements.  They talked about that they usually enter from the rear and cut thru some muscles in the process but now are slowly changing and going thru the front and don't cut any of the muscles.  Any of this is invasive as hell but the results are usually pretty good.  I guess I'll find out next week.

Bruce

aircooled posted:

Paul....Your shoulder looks very much like what the showed for a hip joint replacement in the class I attended today for knee and hip replacements.  They talked about that they usually enter from the rear and cut thru some muscles in the process but now are slowly changing and going thru the front and don't cut any of the muscles.  Any of this is invasive as hell but the results are usually pretty good.  I guess I'll find out next week.

Bruce

The Anterior (front) Hip Arthroplasty has become the "norm" for several years. Mine was done in 2014 by an orthopedist in Napa, CA, (John Diana, MD) who really specializes in ONLY knees and hips, and he's actually done thousands of them. You're absolutely right in that this procedure is, by far, the way to go. With the minimal damage to muscles and the prosthetics so precisely fitted, I was home in 3 days and pretty much fully recovered in 6 to 8 weeks. That said, I'd take the hip replacement over the friggin' shoulder FOR SURE! As for the knee, my surgeon is a co-founder of the St. Helena Coon Joint Replacement Institute, where they do minimally invasive robotic assisted replacements. This procedure has the patient WALKING OUT and going home the day after surgery, and full recovery within a month.  Good luck with YOUR replacement, Bruce! 

 

Wow, those recovery times are amazing.  I had a shoulder cleaned up (nothing artificial added) and the recovery was over 3 months of a lot of PT and the associated pain and limited usefulness along with it (Does this hurt?)

OTOH, friends have had knees and hips replaced (full and partial) and walk out of the hospital in a day or so with very short recovery times.  Amazing.

Looks like I chose the wrong body part to screw up way back when!

Worker’s Comp has finally gotten their head on straight.  In home physical therapy starts on Thursday. Tuesday afternoon I took off the Aquacel Bandage and found I was “stitched” together with 27 staples. Looked like someone went crazy with a Swingline. Hard to tell if the bruising is lessening or just shifting around. Not feeling too much pain but when I stand or walk around I feel pressure in the leg especially around the new joint. That pressure is the only thing interfering with my flexibility. I’ll see how PT goes tomorrow and we’ll talk about the pain again. Lol

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