Converting 4 Lug to Wide 5 Lug

most cost effective does not equal safest or best.

now that that disclaimer is out of the way - 1967 drums in the rear and wheel adapters in the front.  you could have the whole setup done for ~$200

i would not recommend the wheel adapters though - they are not that safe.  Since you have discs - another option - is the convert back to drums on teh front.  1967 drums, pads, hardware bolt right on the ball joint and will give you wide 5.

food for thought.

if you do go with the rear drums - check out my site <----

you need to cut off the 4 lug drum nipple (gigidy) and use it as a spacer on teh 5 lug.  IIRC it was ~12mm.

For the rear:  http://www2.cip1.com/SearchRes...arch=conversion+drum

For the front:  http://www.cbperformance.com/c...g.asp?ProductID=1438

I agree with Mango-do not use wheel adapters.

Thanks Mango and Ron.  Ron, I have been looking at the approach that you suggested.

I have a few questions regarding it:

1. Does it retain the original wheel offset (i.e., results in no additional wheel offset);

2. Does going to the new rear drums require any additional changes to the drum backing plate or brake shoes or anything else;  and

3. Are you able to use the polished drum covers over the 5 wide rear drums (as the outside surface appears to have raised ridges).

Thanks, Grant.

1) no - those add ~12mm to your rear track.  they are THING drums.  bigger though (ie:  better stopping power).

2) yes - you need matching hardware and shoes.  backing plates should be fine (mine was)

3) yes.  i do/am.

Nothing but problems with adapters for me.

Thanks Mango.  I assume that you are running 15x5-1/2 Mangle wheels.  What size tires are you running.  185x65s ?  I love that look of the powder coated steel wheels.  Currently have 4 lug chrome wheels with moons looking to replace ASAP. 

Did you consider going with discs on the rear ?  The reason that I ask is that I am not all that impressed with the current stopping power of my Speedster (discs front/drum rear), and am tempted by the 5 wide conversion kit (but thats another $400 or so).  Maybe its just sponginess in the pedal that can be taken care of replacing rubber brake lines with stainless ones.  I did this on an old 911 that I had and the pedal was rock solid.

Thanks, Grant

my car stops amazingly well.  perfect balance front and rear.

brake and tire specs are here:

http://www.mangosmoothie.ca/specs

i did consider rear discs, but after reading here - the general consensus was that they were not needed.  honestly - if you were close to me i'd take you for a spin and slam on the brakes at 80kph.  it just stops.  fast.  no fade, no swerving, no lockup (front or rear)

tires: P185/60R15 Yokohama AVID TRZ

before you buy tires - do some research and buy the best you can afford.

http://www.tirerack.com/survey...p;tireModel=AVID+TRZ

Mango's car is one of the best looking Speedsters I've seen; love it! The previous suggestions are great; like they said use '67 drums and it's basically bolt-on. Being that I like the correct look, when I ordered my Vintage Speedster I specified to Kirk that I wanted wide fives; the 4 lug look bothers me because it doesn't look right. I believe he used a wide five front disc brake set from So Cal Imports that uses VW Rabbit calipers; they've worked great. The offset is just perfect using the 5-1/2" wheels.

I know very little about disc brake conversions other than I need to do it this winter on the front wheels. Is there anything wrong with the disc brake conversion kit that CIP1 sells for the front wheels ? http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDeta...CC%2DC10%2D4121%2DBO Thanks.

My experience with CIP has been positive; one caveat with the link you posted: it doesn't show an option for wide five pattern.

This is the kit I referred to in my previous post:

http://www.socalautoparts.com/...n-5x205-p-13591.html

Thanks for that link. I see where the parts in my link doesn't have the wide 5 option. I just measured my wheels and while I do have a five bolt pattern and the wheels have "made in Germany " stamped on them. I believe my chassis is pre 1968 1/2 due to replacing tie rod parts earlier and I can't get to see my chassis number.  In your socalauto parts link they refer to "wide 5.....5 x 205". What does the 205 refer to please ? I guess my question is really...what is the definition of wide 5 ? Thanks...I need to get unconfused and more educated so I can order the right parts.

205 is a distance in mm and is the number used for the wide five pattern. Wide five pattern refers to the bolt pattern (5 bolts, 205 mm apart, diameter) in pre 1968 VW and older (I believe pre '64) Porsches. As opposed to the newer 5 bolt Porsche wheels, in these wide five wheels the bolts are further separated apart and there's a rounded star shaped hole in the center.

Agreed!  I love looking at it as well

thanks   you guys wait until spring...  i have some fun winter projects planned.

engine is already out and suspension measurements already taken. 

muwuhaaaa

back on topic - before you pull the plug on ordering front disc brakes - you want o think about if you want drop spindles or not.  nearly all kits won't fit on drop spindles - they only work on regular spindles.

i personally would recommend the drop spindle route as it lowers the car (which i heart) and does not adversely affect the ride quality.  the drop kits for 205 spacing are $$ though.

so basically plan the end state fully and spend $$ once and wisely.

David, here's a wide five wheel.

Thanks for the pic, Rich. Mine look just like that too except they measure 195.26mm

center to center, not 205. You are talking 205 mm center to center on say, the 11 o'clock bolt to the 3 o'clock bolt ? I scoured the online catalogues and everything I see seems to be wide 5, rear wheel stuff or something with dropped spindels or the link pin type. I'm missing something and will make some calls tomorrow.

David, To measure vw wheel bolt patterns, skipping one hole, you measure from the center of one stud to the outside of the other stud, not center to center.  That's why you're 10 mm off.  Regards, Jim

Wow...thanks for that one, Jim. I never would have figured on that. So I've got wide 5's already. Now I can sleep tonight. :-)