It's been nearly 100 degrees in Mississippi all summer. We're looking forward to Fall and some cooler temperatures, but the high today will be 96 with high humidity. It's HOT.

I think I may have a cooling issue with my car. I have a 2110 engine with a 911 shroud ( I know Raby's shroud is better but this is what I have). Normally the the temp will be about mid gauge. It has never overheated (into the red), according to the Porsche 914 temp gauge, but the needle will go to the far right of the gauge. Has never been in the white, but near there. I use the Speedster for kids football and home coming parades. That's where the issue first reared it's ugly head.

I took it out a couple of weeks ago and thrashed it for half an hour and the temp rose to about 3/4 of the gauge. I'd really like the temp to stay about middle of the gauge.

So, not being satisfied with the amount of oil on my garage floor I pulled the rockers and push rod tubes, again, and had a look at the cylinder tin. exist_tin

This is what's there now.

Cylinder_tin [1)

This is what I have bought.

Is anyone using this tin on a type one engine?

Does it help the cooling?

Is my engine running too hot for the temperatures we're experiencing?

Am I fixing something that doesn't need fixing?

 

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Do you have an external oil cooler? Have you used an actual thermometer to check to see what the actual oil temp is? What type/weight oil are you using? Some of these questions may help others help you. 

The new one is designed for the flat pancake T3 engine.  At one time it was thought they do a better job cooling but believe that has been proven false.  It is not recommended not to use the T3 on an upright cooled T1 engine.

I'd look to see if you have the lower cooling sled tins and maybe the Hoover bit.

I don't think the new tin is recommended for your type one. That tin is for a type three and used to be called "super tin".  Time has shown that it doesn't improve anything on a type one. Definitely use the existing tin. It sounds like you had a sudden change in your engine cooling. This could be because it was hotter. It could mean that your temp gauge or sender are failing too. Drive the car hard on a cold morning and check it then. Remove your gauge and sending unit and suspend your sender in a pot of boiling water to see if your gauge reads 212 f. (you'll need a 12 v battery for a power source) If it checks out pretty close then start looking for other sources of overheating.

Hope this helps...........Bruce

Thanks Bruce. It won't be cold here until December. I'll put the old tin back in.

Wolfgang, No sleds. No heaters, It's HOT here. The engine builder used the mounting holes on the oil pan to hang oil files.

Robert M, Got an external oil cooler. Running Rotella 15w40.

Thanks, Jim

Personally, I wouldn't do anything until you check the real temperature of the oil with a dipstick thermometer.  A candy thermometer from Amazon with a probe roughly the same length as the bottom of your oil dipstick will do, and for $20 or less you can get a digital one from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=can...p;ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_6

Bruce had a good suggestion that we can expand upon:  

"Remove your gauge and sending unit and suspend your sender in a pot of boiling water to see if your gauge reads 212 f."

 I would take a slightly different tack:  Remove the sender.  Re-attach the sender wire and add a ground wire from the sender housing to a good ground point on the engine (almost anywhere will do).  

Heat a cup of water in your microwave until it's boiling and then scoot out to the car (don't get any hot water onya!) and place the threaded end of the sender into that cup of water.  (If you're cool you can also put the candy thermometer in there to watch the water temp drop).  Turn on your ignition to activate the gauge and see what it reads (give it a few seconds to stabilize).  

Calibrate your dash gauge with what the candy thermometer tells you or simply note that where the gauge needle is, is probably around 200º F by the time it settles.  THEN you'll know if it is actually getting too hot or not.  Just note where the needle is - It may show 190 when it's really seeing 200.  That difference is important and all you have to remember is the difference and apply it in the future.

While you're messing in the engine bay, make sure there is nothing blocking the fan inlet (John Estes caught a rag in his on a trip to Carlisle one year).

Don't bother messing with the type 3 cooling tins- the original type 1 pieces work better. Remember the fan configuration- on type 1 the air is coming down through the cylinders and heads while with the type 3 the fan is behind the engine and blowing air across. There is a thread on this subject on the Samba (although I can't find it right now) and there is even a VW technical bulletin advising not to install type 3 lower cylinder tins on type 1 engines.

And your engine needs sled tins and either heater boxes or industrial tins to send the spent cooling air out behind the engine so the heat doesn't get re-ingested by the fan and carbs (and drive temps up higher). I think this would be more important especially if you're doing constant slow (parade) driving.  Al

Next thing...

What are you using for  engine compartment seal? Original VW required a channel that was built into the floor of the engine compartment.

I have some foam pipe insulation which will seal well, but it is not fire resistant. I have an A1 Performance header and exhaust system which fits with in 1/2" of engine tin. I know it will burn.

What to do?

I cut 11 Ga. aluminum plate to closely fit the shape of the rear engine tin.   Then I used a '67-'74 Bug engine seal to close the gap.  The aluminum is in three pieces to help with installation/removal.  It overlaps the bottom of the 2" x 2" square tubing frame and is screwed into the frame with self-tapping screws.  It has worked very well and is tight.    https://www.jbugs.com/product/111-705D.html

FullSizeRender

James

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Last edited by James

My installation is similar. Your engine appears to sit below the frame rails. My closure panels are installed from below the frame rails engine shroud is sightly above. This may be the problem. I think I have a solution. It looks good and will keep the hot air out...if

My heat shields are installed under the frame rails as well.  I have one big horse shoe shaped one under the rails that comes up under the engine tins and is sealed with a similar seal as the VW Bug.  

Then, I have another shield on top of the rear portion of the frame rail that seals that area between the rail and the rear inside of the body.  That piece has a kip-up at each end to seal just beyond the tail lights.  The two, together, are pretty effective.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols
Gordon Nichols posted:

...

Then, I have another shield on top of the rear portion of the frame rail that seals that area between the rail and the rear inside of the body.  That piece has a kip-up at each end to seal just beyond the tail lights.  The two, together, are pretty effective.

Yes Gordon, I forgot to mention that one!  It is important because it sits just above the muffler on a conventional style exhaust system and blocks a lot of heat.

Jim, I made aluminum sled tins that slip inside the 911 shroud and angle to the rear of the car. I had to cut a large hole for the J-tubes that run under the pushrods. Secured the head side with a set of old valve cover bails as I have bolt-on valve covers. Case side has aluminum tabs that attach to 6mm holes in case. Lowered oil temp by 10 degrees F, and cylinder head temp the same 10 degrees. Mine is on a Spyder so no separating top/bottom air. 911 shroud faces forward and tins exit rearward.

I don't know if it would do as much on a Speedster with tins as you already have intake/exhaust separation. But it wasn't expensive to do.

Re the Type 3 cooling tins; I follow this VW mechanic on Youtube, username Mike Fn Garage. He recommends them. He says that they give him great results. About the Service Bulletin by VW his theory is that the factory didn't want to admit a design error in the original design of the tins so as to prevent replacing engines in warranty.

Here's what long time repected parts supplier JBugs says about them -

 Though the tins are an essential part of the cooling system in the Type 3 platform, they provide no additional cooling when used on stock Type 1 engines (found in Bug, Super Beetle, Karman Ghia, and Thing models).

The Type 3 is a totally different engine cooling design.

Image result for vw t3 engine cooling tin

Last edited by WOLFGANG
Impala posted:

Re the Type 3 cooling tins; I follow this VW mechanic on Youtube, username Mike Fn Garage. He recommends them. He says that they give him great results. About the Service Bulletin by VW his theory is that the factory didn't want to admit a design error in the original design of the tins so as to prevent replacing engines in warranty.

Was looking for something else and found this thread. The guys says they give great results- did he put a set on, found the engine still ran with them so his backyard expertise consists of "Yup- they run reeel good!" or does he present data (head, air, oil temps) to substantiate his claim? 

I know I sound like a sceptic, but you know how it is- look hard enough and some idiot on the internet will tell you anything you want. The type 1 cooling system worked on millions (literally MILLIONS) of stock engines and continues to work on I don't know how many thousands of modified engines to this day. There are a few who have claimed good results with using the type 3 pieces (with modifications) in place of the type 1 cylinder bottom and sled tins when the sled tins interfere with an exhaust's primary tubes. The spent cooling air aims straight down and exits right under the engine, though (not out the back of the car like the sled tins do) and the preheated air can then be re-ingested by the engine in slow/stop and go traffic. It's not the perfect solution.

Last edited by ALB
ALB posted:
Impala posted:

Re the Type 3 cooling tins; I follow this VW mechanic on Youtube, username Mike Fn Garage. He recommends them. He says that they give him great results. About the Service Bulletin by VW his theory is that the factory didn't want to admit a design error in the original design of the tins so as to prevent replacing engines in warranty.

Was looking for something else and found this thread. The guys says they give great results- did he put a set on, found the engine still ran with them so his backyard expertise consists of "Yup- they run reeel good!" or does he present data (head, air, oil temps) to substantiate his claim? 

I know I sound like a sceptic, but you know how it is- look hard enough and some idiot on the internet will tell you anything you want. The type 1 cooling system worked on millions (literally MILLIONS) of stock engines and continues to work on I don't know how many thousands of modified engines to this day. There are a few who have claimed good results with using the type 3 pieces (with modifications) in place of the type 1 cylinder bottom and sled tins when the sled tins interfere with an exhaust's primary tubes. The spent cooling air aims straight down and exits right under the engine, though (not out the back of the car like the sled tins do) and the preheated air can then be re-ingested by the engine in slow/stop and go traffic. It's not the perfect solution.

Great info there. Like I said I don’t know the guy personally but it seems he has many years’ experience with VWs and seems to know what he’s doing. You can check it out for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/user/farnhamassoc

 

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