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Hey Guys,

I am back again with an EMPI brake questions.  We have been having problems with squealing front brakes.  The car has EMPI disk brakes with caliper number 226125B and pad number 22-2880.  I took some of your advise and chambered the pad edges and put that anit-squeal red gel stuff all over the back of the pads.  I waited overnight before installing the pads to allow the gel stuff to dry.  It didn't work.  So I took the car into a local garage that specializing in Porsche and euro imports.  The guy at the counter said that the pads have not embedded themselves yet into the rotor.  They used some higher end anti-squeal spray.  He also said that the car is really too light for these disk brakes.  They charged $200 for basically nothing.  The squeal stopped for about a week and now its back.

I believe the problems is due to these pads not having any type of shim between the pad and the calipers.  They also don't have any type of anti-rattle clips.  My guess is they are squealing at the ears of the backing plate. I have never seen modern brakes without some type of shims and clips.

So here is my question, are there any other pad manufactures that make a pad the would fit these calipers?  I have tried cross referencing on the internet but have not had any luck.

Thanks

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The proper anti-rattle clips for these calipers are MK1 VW (Jetta, Golf, GTI, Scirocco, Rabbit)  I have been told that the caliper was designed after this series of VW caliper, but I cannot tell you if the brake pads are the same.  When the suppliers stopped shipping our brake kits with anti-rattle clips, we had to source them separately.  I've had a ton of trouble getting them lately so we are looking into making a batch of them ourselves...

chines1 posted:

The proper anti-rattle clips for these calipers are MK1 VW (Jetta, Golf, GTI, Scirocco, Rabbit)  I have been told that the caliper was designed after this series of VW caliper, but I cannot tell you if the brake pads are the same.  When the suppliers stopped shipping our brake kits with anti-rattle clips, we had to source them separately.  I've had a ton of trouble getting them lately so we are looking into making a batch of them ourselves...

Hey Carey
What are you guys doing to prevent the squeal?  Do the kits you uses come with any kind of slims?  I don't hear any rattle when we hit bumps, it more the squeal when we hit the brakes.

Squeal has only been an issue on a couple of cars.  The majority of those were corrected by beveling the edges of the pads and making sure the caliper bracket/caliper was true to the rotor (MANY of them are twisted slightly)

I do have one client (local) who has squeal that has returned a few times, no matter what we do.  I did some work on his car Sunday and we discussed the next step, which will be new pads.  I ordered a set of Bosch quiet pads and he got a set of Hawk pads from his work.  It'll be a week or two before we have time to swap them out, but I can let you know what I find.

chines1 posted:

Squeal has only been an issue on a couple of cars.  The majority of those were corrected by beveling the edges of the pads and making sure the caliper bracket/caliper was true to the rotor (MANY of them are twisted slightly)

I do have one client (local) who has squeal that has returned a few times, no matter what we do.  I did some work on his car Sunday and we discussed the next step, which will be new pads.  I ordered a set of Bosch quiet pads and he got a set of Hawk pads from his work.  It'll be a week or two before we have time to swap them out, but I can let you know what I find.

Carey

do you have the part number for the bosch and hawk pads?  I have had no luck in the cross referencing.

chines1 posted:

The Bosch pads fit the caliper and rotor well.  I'll be testing them in the coming weeks.

 

That is great news Carey.  I had a set of the next grade up pads from empi (22-2994) laying around. I don't think they are ceramic, package doesn't specify ( I purchased the SBS Brake Pad Shims 9500-PU and stuck them to back of the pads and so far no squeal.  The shims a very thin cushions/rubber of some kind.  Brake does not seem to be effected.

thanks for updated me on the Bosch. Hope they work.  

Lane, speaking of track days, I'll be taking my 128i vert to the track this month.  The group that owns the BMW dealership I bought my car from recently built a track and gives people who purchased cars from their BMW/Audi/Mercedes dealerships a free track day.

With stock tires and brake pads I won't push the car and we'll probably have follow a leader and with no passing allowed.

I'll be happy driving at 7/10.  Fun just to be out there again.  I just hope it doesn't rain.  I've done a couple of track days in the rain and hated it.  Went home early both days.

If I really, really enjoy myself I could become a track member.  Only costs $50,000.

 

Clean the rotors with brake cleaner and clean, lint-free rags. Get new pads and chamfer them as said above.

Install pads with hi-temp RTV on the back of the pads, only if you don't have the correct clips. Push the brake pedal down and block it that way for 24 hours.

Go out and bed the pads in: three stops from 80, three stops from 60, three stops from 40. Then drive around without touching the brakes to cool the rotors. You're done.

Do some searching on line for proper bedding procedures, but they are similar to what I described above. That should do it.

Sometimes disc brakes just make noise though no matter what you do. And sometimes brakes that mostly don't make any noise will occasionally make some.

.

EMPI front or rear disks? I've got both and they can have different problems.

Chamfering didn't seem to help much. But, using a good brake lube on the backs of the pads eliminated brake squeal right away.

The rears can have other noise problems related to stamped steel brackets (EMPI also make cast brackets that solve the problem). If you've got rear EMPI disks, let us know.

.

Last edited by Sacto Mitch

Our friends at NAPA sell a product called “Brake Quiet”.

It is a silicone based, RTV-like product that tolerates high heat and is applied between the brake pad and caliper on disk brakes.  Once applied, it cures and essentially glues the pad to the caliper or piston and eliminates brake squeal.

If you really feel that you must chamfer the forward edge of the pad while they bed in, a couple of passes with an angle grinder to take off the forward edge of the pad will do, but try the Brake Quiet, first, and for God’s sake, wear a really good respirator mask and do the work outside.  Breathing brake pad dust isn’t good for you.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols
@Rotnroby posted:

Thanks guys!!   I have four wheel Desc breaks I think the car is just to light for the pads perhaps a softer pad, or just go with the Hawks?  Do a Chamfer on the fronts?

Robby..

Squeal is noise. Noise/sound is made due to vibration. Stop the vibration, stop the sound. The hardness of the pads can have an effect, but won't eliminate the squeal.

That’s what we all just gave you.

No one mentioned any “spray” for use on brakes (other than Brake Klene cleaner).  We all use the RTV-like stuff.....out of a tube.... for the back of the pads.

Sure, a different pad compound will act differently, but we don’t know if it’ll be better or worse for you.  Try the suggestions we gave you - They work.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

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