My new buggy has drums, front and back, and I'm in the process of looking to replace them with disc brake kits.
For a change, I trying to keep my costs down, so I'm thinking of going with EMPI disc brake kits.
Does anyone have EMPI disc brakes on their cars and if so, were they fairly easy to install and have they been reliable?
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I've read of people having no trouble with them at all, bolting them on, everything fitting and working just like they're supposed to, and I've read of sets having huge rotor run-out, caliper mounts out of plane with everything else so poorly machined that (in 1 instance) no amount of trueing up cuts fixes it and the whole mess thrown in the corner of the garage in disgust, so take your pick.
It's Empi- spend your money somewhere else where you at least know that if something's wrong they'll correct it or take it back. Al
I've read where folks have to machine back spacers/brackets due to leaks after assembly (depends on year of transaxle).
Never had a problem with Empi discs on a number of speedster builds only thing I'l suggest is chamfer the edge of the pad to avoid the possibility of brake squeal.
Agreed. I do not recommend EMPI very often, but the EMPI discs are nice, sans the pads. We have found several alternative pads, including Bosch quiet pads and Hawk but pads that are direct replacements for the EMPI calipers, but I;d suggest just chamfering the edges as Al mentioned and trying the China pads first.
Also, they no longer come with anti-rattle clips. Oddly enough, only about 20/25% of the kits will rattle without the clips, but if you are the lucky winner of a clanky set, you can use early VW GTI rattle clips as they are a direct replacement for the EMPI clips used years ago.
BTW, if you add an "F" to the part number that gets you the drop forged caliper brackets instead of the cheap metal ones, well worth the extra coin...
Living up in Canada it's easier and cheaper to order parts from CiP1, which is located in Canada.
Because of this, I'm leaning towards the EMPI kits. The CSP kit is very nice, but it's $1800 CAN just for the fronts. 
Is there much difference in quality between the EMPI kit that Cip1 sells and the basic kits that Air Cooled Net and CB sells?
I'm also thinking of ordering rotors with a 4x100 bolt pattern, so I can mount a set of wheels I had on my old Miata. I really like the look of these wheels.
I purchased a set of EMPI front brakes for dropped spindles. They were marked left and right but were incorrect. I've talked to several people who had the same experience. After you figure out they are backwards, they fit fine and worked well.
Paul - are the calipers on the wrong side (front)? Ghia had calipers in back and the bleeders at the bottom - where they belong. I don't like the front brake kits that have the bracket adapters - seems they would vibrate and come loose or become mis-aligned. I much prefer those where the spindle actually gets replaced but they are becoming hard to find (especially for non-dropped ones).
" Ghia had calipers in back and the bleeders at the bottom - where they belong."
If the bleeders were at the bottom, how did you get the air out? air goes UP, not down.
Gordon Nichols posted:" Ghia had calipers in back and the bleeders at the bottom - where they belong."
If the bleeders were at the bottom, how did you get the air out? air goes UP, not down.
Agreed. the bleeder should be at the top of the caliper.
I've decided to go with the cheaper brake kit from CB. I'll order a front and rear kit with blank rotors and get them drilled for a 4x100 bolt pattern locally.
A bonus with CB is they'll ship via USPS, so I won't get dinged with brokerage fees.
With my kit they didn't have the bracket. They bold right on the spindles.
Just my two sense. When considering an upgrade price is always a factor but one should be look at the bigger picture. With brakes, they are a component that has a high safety consideration and one doesn't think about them until a situation occurs and they need them. I have installed CB's kits, worked on many cars with the empi kits, but if I have a customer asking what I would use. I recommend either the CSP brake kits or airkewld. When purchasing a set of front brakes you should think of the options. I like to use zero offset brake kits with vented rotors or at least drilled rotors, and now is the time to look to the future as for how you want your ride to look. Most of these cars have a four lug bolt pattern, if you imagine your car having 5 x 130 Fuchs or early 5 x 205 lug pattern. Therefore a brake upgrade may include new wheels. If you have four wheel drum brakes you may be changing the master cylinder also. Good luck!
It's not like you even need disc brakes (much less 4 wheel disc) on a shorten wheel base <1300# dune buggy though. More of a MADNESS.
Ron---I had a problem with the C.B. disc brake kit and so did others here too. The wheels were two pieces on mine ---an inner, steel section about the diameter of a coffee cup saucer and a larger Pizza size outer aluminum part that was cast onto the steel part. Maybe this has been corrected but mine and others separated where the aluminum was cast with the steel part. No fun driving from Richmond, VA to Hot Springs like that either!
I was told here that proper torquing the kit was key to preventing this issue but mine was perfectly torqued and I still had the problem. C.B. was aware of this issue with their kit and maybe they have since changed to solid wheels. Ask them about this.
The fix was two all steel wheels from SoCal Imports that were plug and play that replaced the two-piece ones. They were about $80 each. Nothing like solid steel! A little more weight but there's nothing that's going to separate.
Maybe try to get the C.B. kit less the two-part wheels and get the ones from SoCal Imports. I can give you the part number for my C.B. kit and the matching wheel p/n from SoCal Imports if you want. I have had nothing but great service from my CB/SoCal hybrid set up.
As far as the value of having 4-wheel disc brakes, I had a panic stop on I-40 when I had disc fronts and drum rears and I was zig-zagging all over the highway. Now I always stop straight ahead with ease and a comfortable feeling of safety. A lot of folks say we don't need discs on all 4 wheels but we DO need all the safety we can have possibly have. You are smart to be getting rear discs! Damned smart, I say.
You've brought up some very good points, @Jack Crosby. While I've been one that has said not everyone needs 4 wheel discs, a person has to be honest about how he drives, and like a hotrodded car needing a bigger reserve of oil to survive, if one drives their car harder than the factory engineers at Wolfsburg intended then brake improvements are necessary. Does everyone need vented rotors and lightweight 4 and 6 piston calipers? Not necessarily, as single rotors and 2 piston calipers (Karmann Ghia discs) and stock rear drums are more than adequate for some, but start pushing the high speed boundaries and then more stopping power is necessary to stay alive. For others the addition of wider shoes and larger bore wheel cylinders in earlier 5x205 drums (which will update them to the stopping power of 4 bolt drums, as well as the Ghia type discs) will be enough, while those that push the boundaries a little more will require more stopping power along the lines of type 3 rear brakes or discs (depending on the budget). And then there are those that push the limits to the extreme; nothing but vented rotors and multi piston calipers all around will keep them safe.
It all depends on the how much power the car has, it's purpose and how gonzo the owner is. I will say this- better to have too much than not enough... Al
Since I'll be installing new brakes and wheels/tires, I starting from a new slate. The thing is, everything has to work together. If I buy brake kits with 5x130 bolt pattern I have to buy wheels with the same pattern. The problem with the 5x130 pattern is there is a limited selection of wheels. Same goes for 5x205s.
If I go with a 4x100 bolt pattern there are many, many styles of wheels to chose from and the prices are reasonable.
For example, the 4x100 wheels I'm looking at (15x6 front & 15x8 rear) are track tested (not that I'm going to track my buggy) and very light (10 & 13 pounds).
I do get what Anthony and Jack are saying and it's making me rethink my choices.
Brakes are something I shouldn't 'cheap out' on. I think a light buggy with discs in the front and drums in the rear would be more than adequate for the way I intend on driving, but I really don't like drum brakes and hate working on them.
Another wheel I'm looking at is the SS Super Speed from Cip1. To allow me to put the tires I want on my buggy (195/50-15 & 225/45-17 rear) I'd have to go with a 15x5.5 wheel for the front and a 17x7 wheel in the back.
I'm not sure how this staggered (15" front/17" rear) setup would look.
At least if I went with the Super Speed wheels I could order brake kits with a 5x130 or 5x205 bolt pattern.
Here's a photo of the Super Speeds on a Beetle. These are the 15x5.5s.
The CSP front discs are zero offset or very close. I had the solid rotor ones. I'd get the vented if i did it again.
The Ball Joint drum spindle, 4 piston Willwood Airkewld are NOT zero offset. In fact, it's about 3/4" per side, or 1.5" total. Not a problem now, as my new car has a 2" narrowed beam, but definitely a factor. Also, the machining for the grease cap and seals is not correct as I received them. Off to my buddy's lathe to correct.
My rears are Airkewld as well, but use a nice tig-welded caliper mount and a VW Golf single piston caliper with ebrake. Also have steel braided hoses and their MC that comes with the kit. The rears are zero offset. And the cool thing is bolt patterns are interchangeable, as long as they are 5 lug. American, 130mm, and 205mm are available. I got wide 5, with 14mm pressed studs. 911 ball seat lug nuts work fine.
Now, despite the high cost and the extra work I had to do, they are worth the cost. They plain old work. I beat on them for two hours, playing high speed tag with an old Alfa, an old E type, and a Dino GTS.
No fade, ever. No warping. Just excellent late-braking, time and time again. From 80-90 down to 30-40, over and over and over. Complete confidence, every time. Now that is an endorsement!
I would stay away from EMPI brakes, they are cheap and HEAVY, especially in Wide5.
The last time I spoke with airkewld they were working on a zero offset frt kit. Either CSP or airkewld, they both far exceed the other kits available. There is one other brake set up which is more geared towards racing and that is CNC in SoCal. Nice brackets and billet calipers. I think they use either wilwood rotors or strange rotors.
don't take short cuts here!
@Ron O- If you're seriously thinking about big and little tires on your buggy you'll need more braking power on the back than you normally would on a car with the same tires and wheels front and back. On both my Cal Look bug (135's, 4 1/2" wheels, Ghia discs front, 185/70's on 6" wheels back) and baja bug (7.00x15's, 4 1/2" wheels and drums on front, 28 or 30" tall, 9" wide all terrains on 7" rims on the back) it took going to type 3 rear brake drums and shoes to come close to somewhat balanced braking. Al
Since the brakes are going on a buggy I'm not too concerned about a small offset increase.
I like the CSP brakes, but holy moly are they expensive.
Fronts are $1729, rears are $1875, and a complete dual circuit master cylinder conversion kit is $373 (Canadian funds)
That's almost $4,000. 
and I don't think these have vented rotors.
The Airweld kits look nice, but I have two reservations about purchasing something from them. First, their feedback on SAMBA is mixed, with a fair amount of negative comments. Second, not long after his Bad series brake kits came on the market I ordered a set for my IM. I had a heck of a problem getting the bearings to fit. Even after heating the rotors and freezing the bearing I had to use a lot of force to get the bearings to seat properly. I also thought the caliper bracket should have been beefier.
The Airweld brake kit combo ( $3222 CAN) is cheaper than the CSP combo.
Do I take it that CBs front and rear disc brake kits are the same quality as the EMPI kits?
Is this front disc kit the one that had the problem with the rotors separating?
http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/4177.htm
What do you guys think of this rear disc kit:
http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/4359.htm
Danny, do you find you need more force on the brake pedal with the Wilwood 4 pots?
I ordered the front and rear disc brake kits from Cip1 today. Ordered mine with the blank rotors, so I can have them drilled for a 4x100 bolt pattern. We'll see how easy they are to install.
Good news is I'm also going to order a new two post lift, so I'll be able to stand or sit on my stool when struggling (cursing) with the brake install.
No more cold cement floor for this old back (and butt). 
Sorry to revive this old thread, but does anyone know the thread in the EMPI rear calipers? I don't like the short rubber hose that's angle 90 degrees and attaches to the copper line, and would like to replace it with a flexible line with 90 degree banjo fitting.
