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@TheMayoMachine and I went for a drive on Sunday and I experienced quite a bit of front end wander. At speed the front end would dance around between the lines and there was no movement at the steering wheel. 

The first time I sensed this was when I took my Speedster to the wedding earlier this summer. After I noticed it I inspected the front end and I discovered a very, and I mean very, slight amount of play in both rotors. This likely occurred after I replaced the rotors, bearings, and pads when I replaced the master cylinder. I went ahead and tightened everything back up and thought that might fix it. I had been a few very short city speed drives and didn't notice any wandering so I thought I fixed it.

While out driving on Sunday I experienced it again and it was about the same. I got the front end up off the ground and inspected the beam ball joints, shock mounts, and the steering column. The only thing that had any noticeable movement was the steering column but it wasn't that much. I held tight to the front wheels and had my son turn the steering wheel. I noticed the column moved before the wheels so I loosened the jam nut on the sector screw and tightened it up. I've seen on other VW steering boxes another nut behind the box that also gets tightened but my steering box doesn't have that. The only adjustment I could make appeared to be the sector screw. I haven't lifted the tail end to see if anything is loose there yet but if the wandering continues I may have to. After that I went ahead and greased up the beam.

I'll take it out for another highway speed drive to check on this adjustment. While I was underneath the front end looking at everything I noticed a split in the rubber mount that connects the two halves of the steering column. Is that something that should be replaced immediately and if so what brands/types of replacements should I avoid?

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If you're not living life on the edge, you're taking up too much space!

 

 

 

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Last edited by Robert M
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Get a German rubber/rag joint ONLY! DO NOT GET ANY URETHANE! If it's cracked, replace it.

I cannot stress this enough, your life depends on it.

Also tighten the pitman arm nut, a lot of times this nut looks tight but if you really crank on it, you'll get 1/16th of a turn. This can and does make a difference, and this fix has worked for many others.

I've never seen a steering box with only one adjustment, so I don't know what to tell you there.

Also tighten the steering box attachment bolts.

@DannyP posted:

Get a German rubber/rag joint ONLY! DO NOT GET ANY URETHANE! If it's cracked, replace it.

I cannot stress this enough, your life depends on it.

Also tighten the pitman arm nut, a lot of times this nut looks tight but if you really crank on it, you'll get 1/16th of a turn. This can and does make a difference, and this fix has worked for many others.

I've never seen a steering box with only one adjustment, so I don't know what to tell you there.

Also tighten the steering box attachment bolts.

That's what I was thinking too Danny. So I went out to the garage and snapped a photo of the steering box itself.

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Sector screw is obviously the clean-ish nut and screw on the top. Nothing else looked like it could be tightened. Other steering boxes I've seen had an adjustment at the back of the steering box where the shaft comes in to the box but I've got nothing there.

I'll order a new rag joint and get that swapped out immediately. I'll take it for a test drive before I check the pitman arm in case today's adjustment works.

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Last edited by Robert M

YES!  Replace it immediately!  DO NOT drive it until the coupler is replaced!

We're not kidding about this!

Also, do not use a Urethane coupler - they are junk.  They stress crack and fail just like the one you have, only much sooner.

Try to find a genuine OEM VW  part number 111415417  (fits years 53 - 72+).

https://www.bugcity.com/shop/s...ery=steering+coupler

Note:  The older ones were round, the newer OEM version is square-ish.  A new VW one should be around 20 bucks and could be from Brazil, Mexico or India and are good.  A new old stock German version will be closer to 50 bucks.

I had an issue with an after-market (non-VW or German) version that had longer than stock metal bushings used which caused the horn to short to ground through the coupler.  Replaced that with an OEM VW version and the problem vanished.

Your photo shows the adjuster on top of the box, and there is a YUGE! hex lock nut on the front (left in the photo, right on the front of the box).  That gets loosened (it's a 41mm moose) and then you need a special tool that is nothing more than a 7/8" hex nut welded to a flat piece of metal.  The nut gets cut to about half the height/thickness to fit up in there (it's a close fit to the body) and once the lock nut is loose you can use that tool to turn the adjuster (which is a depressed hex cup to accept the aforementioned nut).

I doubt that you need to adjust the steering box (although that seems to be popular on here, lately).   Just get the coupler replaced and I'll bet you'll be good to go.

Good luck Robert.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

Meh.  You got a good one - I'm not fussy about where it comes from!   

I was just giving the Bug City ones as an example.  I always forget about the cost of shipping, 'cuz Kathy and I get so much from Amazon with free shipping.  Kinda makes you forget about that stuff.  We got our new house generator on Amazon with free shipping from the manufacturer - 264 pounds from Ontario, California to Massachusetts!   Makes you wonder how they make any money on their stuff!

Glad you're headed in the right direction.  Don't want to see your Clown Car careening off the road somewhere!

Chiming in here. This is a red urethane rag joint that came with the Spyder project I bought. It was installed on the steering box but with no steering column attached, so it had never once been used to turn the car's wheels.

After replacing it with a proper rubber one and getting the steering shaft dialed in, I still had just a bit of play in the steering. I was about to make a tool to adjust the box when someone (probably @DannyP) reminded me to check the nut holding on the pittman arm. I found a big socket for that and a breaker bar and, sure enough, a bit of grunt moved it an eighth turn or so. 

And that did it.

 

@Robert M posted:

 

While I was underneath the front end looking at everything I noticed a split in the rubber mount that connects the two halves of the steering column. Is that something that should be replaced immediately and if so what brands/types of replacements should I avoid?

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Ironical, given your sig line!

In related news: On my way home to NYC when I first bought my Spyder, I noticed quite a bit of wander, so much so that I bought all new ball joints. Fast forward a year until I got my car sorted enough to drive it, I discovered when I replaced the 165/78-15 tires with the ones Carey recommends that the PO had mounted the rear 5.5" wheel on the right side and both the 4.5 front wheels on the right. 

That fixed the wander right up. Sometimes I think it's a little loose on center, but the reality is that if I move one of the steering wheel spokes more than 1/2" it changes direction. Thanks for the tip on the Pittman arm, Ed. That's definitely worth a look. 

Last edited by dlearl476
@dlearl476 posted:

Ironical, given your sig line!

In related news: On my way home to NYC when I first bought my Spyder, I noticed quite a bit of wander, so much so that I bought all new ball joints. Fast forward a year until I got my car sorted enough to drive it, I discovered when I replaced the 165/78-15 tires with the ones Carey recommends that the PO had mounted the rear 5.5" wheel on the right side and both the 4.5 front wheels on the right. 

That fixed the wander right up. Sometimes I think it's a little loose on center, but the reality is that if I move one of the steering wheel spokes more than 1/2" it changes direction. Thanks for the tip on the Pittman arm, Ed. That's definitely worth a look. 

Yep!! If you aren’t living on the edge, you’re taking up too much space. I guess my toes were the only thing hanging over the line this time. 

@Robert M posted:

@PaulEllis Would you mind posting a diagram or photo of that Paul? I'm not familiar with that clamp. Thank you sir.

@DannyP posted:

Robert, you have two of them(in your picture above), on either side of the rubber/cloth donut. Paul is talking about the pinch bolt, one on the steering box input shaft and one on your steering shaft.

Thank you Danny.

@PaulEllis Please disregard previous request as the referenced part is in my picture from above.

Got an email from Air-cooled.net on Thursday that my part was on backorder but a new part was expected by the end of this week or the middle of next week. Went ahead and tightened up all of the suspension bolts as suggested by everyone here. The steering shaft pinch bolts were a tad loose but not enough, I think, to affect the steering. Tightened up one of the two pitman arm nuts. One of them turned a 1/4 turn but the other was tight as a duck's you know what. Checked the remaining nuts and everything else was tight. As soon as the new rag joint gets here I'll swap that out and give it a test drive. I'm missing some premium driving weather right now so it's been little difficult to not take the Speedster out.

So the new rag joint came in today's mail and I had it installed in about 30 minutes. Total install time included jacking up the car and collecting my tools. Also tightened up the big nut on the pitman arm. Took it for a road test and I'm still getting some wander.

Going to move to the back of the car now to see if anything at the back of the car is loose. I'll post if I find anything out of the ordinary.

And if that doesn't fix it I'll take the Speedster down to the alignment shop to have the alignment checked.

Dittos to edsnova & Alan Merklin. Urethane non oem rag joint failed.  Fortunately, while I was backing out of my garage. 

To Alan's post, changed rear to wide 5 rotors, had a senior moment, missed appropriate torque on stub axle nuts.  I would describe the sensation like the tires were mushy.  I knew where to look since no changes were made to the front.

These clown cars can be insidious.

@DannyP posted:

Robert, if you have the front on jackstands, how much does the steering wheel move before the wheels start to turn? I. E. : how much play at the wheel?

I've got mine adjusted down to a half inch, 3/4 inch is acceptable according to Bentley.

Now that everything is tightened up there is zero play. I may have to loosen the sector screw a tad so it’s not too tight. Lol

@Ewatub posted:

Dittos to edsnova & Alan Merklin. Urethane non oem rag joint failed.  Fortunately, while I was backing out of my garage. 

To Alan's post, changed rear to wide 5 rotors, had a senior moment, missed appropriate torque on stub axle nuts.  I would describe the sensation like the tires were mushy.  I knew where to look since no changes were made to the front.

These clown cars can be insidious.

Installed an OEM German rag joint. 

Had a funny conversation with Pat Downs, Anand Rajani, and Teby this morning. I texted them to tell them I replaced the “rag joint”. Pat D asked what a rag joint was and Anand told him that’s what the steering coupler was called because it was made of rubber and woven fiber. Pat asked why I just didn’t call it a steering coupler. I told him that was the term I knew. Later I sent a photo of the torn part and said, “Here’s the torn coupler.”. Pat D responded back, “That’s a rag joint.”.  He was on fire this morning with his humor. 

Last edited by Robert M

This week has been car fix week at my house. I've had to move between my daughter's older model Saturn Aura that I'm getting ready to sell for her and my Speedster. Today was Speedster day again and after I took the dog out for his daily walk I jacked up the rear of the car. I grabbed hold of the wheel and gave it a shake. It moved a little. WTF?!!! I checked the opposite side and it also moved just a little.

When I replaced the axle seals, pads, and drums I know I torqued those axle nuts something fierce. In addition to the breaker bar I used the 4' handle from my floor jack as an extension. I also used all of my 230 lbs to apply pressure on the end of the bar which is well over 300 foot pounds.

Something must not have seated all of the way when I reassembled everything during the previous repair but I have torqued everything again and reinstalled new cotter pins so all should be good. I'll double check after each of the next few runs to be sure.

Last edited by Robert M
@Robert M posted:

This week has been car fix week at my house. I've had to move between my daughter's older model Saturn Aura that I'm getting ready to sell for her and my Speedster. Today was Speedster day again and after I took the dog out for his daily walk I jacked up the rear of the car. I grabbed hold of the wheel and gave it a shake. It moved a little. WTF?!!! I checked the opposite side and it also moved just a little.

When I replaced the axle seals, pads, and drums I know I torqued those axle nuts something fierce. In addition to the breaker bar I used the 4' handle from my floor jack as an extension. I also used all of my 230 lbs to apply pressure on the end of the bar which is well over 300 foot pounds.

Something must not have seated all of the way when I reassembled everything during the previous repair but I have torqued everything again and reinstalled new cotter pins so all should be good. I'll double check after each of the next few runs to be sure.

I've had some long conversations wrt: brakes over the last week. After hearing that he never used anything but German drums from my local air-cooled guru, I had a good chat with the tech at Wolfagang International about various drums. He said avoid the Brazilian and Chinese ones, but that the Italian drums are almost as good as the German ones. And cheaper and easier to get. 

The salient point here is what he told me about keeping the axle from wallowing out your drums: torque it to spec, tighten it until the castle nut lines up with the next hole. Drive it for a few minutes, tighten it to the next hole, drive it again, tighten it to the next hole and put the pin in it.  

Last edited by dlearl476
@dlearl476 posted:

I've had some long conversations wrt: brakes over the last week. After hearing that he never used anything but German drums from my local air-cooled guru, I had a good chat with the tech at Wolfagang International about various drums. He said avoid the Brazilian and Chinese ones, but that the Italian drums are almost as good as the German ones. And cheaper and easier to get. 

The salient point here is what he told me about keeping the axle from wallowing out your drums: torque it to spec, tighten it until the castle nut lines up with the next hole. Drive it for a few minutes, tighten it to the next hole, drive it again, tighten it to the next hole and put the pin in it.  

Now I find out.  I went driving today and when I got back I told Teby I’d check the axle nuts every drive until I know is they’re absolutely good. 

@edsnova posted:

230 ft-lbs to like 270 is good. 300 max.

If you put 230 lbs out on the end of a 4-foot breaker you torqued it to 900 ft-lbs. I wouldn't do that.

I didn’t get ALL my weight on it and I wasn’t at the very end. I am confident I got 300 ft lbs out of it. I’ll go visit my brother and get his torque wrench so I can be 100% sure though. Didn’t feel like spending that much for something I hardly ever use. Although it might be faster if I got to AutoZone and borrow one. They have a tool loaner program. 

Question for the experts-

i recently ordered and received a German manufactured steering coupler from one of our trusted VW parts sources.   This Febi Bilstein coupler manufactured in Germany came in a sealed Manufacturer box, but upon unboxing the part number and VW markings had been ground off. Ref picture.

When I contacted the seller they explained that the German manufacturer had lost its VW licensing agreement and all German parts the OEM part builder now sell come with the VW / part number markings crapped off.

does this story ring any bells?  Has anyone who has ordered German manufactured parts experienced this?  Does the grinding introduce fail points in the coupler now? Is using such a part safe?

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question to the builders who deal with parts on a more regular basis? @chines1 @Vintage Motorcars Inc @Vintage Speedsters  @VSpyder—-  is this something you are familiar with?   would you put such a part in your cars?  

sorry to bother you guys with such a trivial question.... but safety first, right?

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Last edited by Lfepardo

I did hear back from other VW part retailers who sell the same Made in Germany  Febi part...

They cracked a couple boxes open and confirmed they also had the VW logs/par number scraped off.  They do stock another German OEM part manufacturer who apparently does not scrape the VW logo off... probably because they have an active license to produce the part in place with VW/ Audi .  pricing is 2x.

question now is... is this Febi part safe to use/ recommended for use?  Or should I scrap and get another German part?  

better safe than sorry...

thoughts??

Last edited by Lfepardo

It is not unusual for parts suppliers (in a lot of industries) to go in and out of supply contracts as an OEM (original equipment manufacturer), meaning that they supply authorized parts to someone else for a while, then another someone else underbids them and they lose the contract for a while and maybe later on it flips back (usually because the second supplier wasn't making enough of a margin on his low bid).  

Supplier #1 still has the tooling and left over raw materials on hand and can still produce parts, but they're no longer under license so they have to remove any reference to the "Mother Company".  They may even have finished product that they produced in anticipation of a continued contract that didn't happen and can do whatever they want with it once the reference logo to the buying company is removed.  I used to deal with this from time to time with our (totally unrelated) products.

It would have been much cooler if Supplier #1 had modified their rubber casting tool to eliminate the logo, but they may have had a bunch of finished product and someone (usually an inside sales person) said it was OK just to grind off the existing logo (I hope we have no "inside sales" people on here) and sell 'em as-is.

Now.....   Would I use it if it was the sole link between my steering wheel and steering linkage?

Pro'bly not.  You only live once.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

Well... the more I search for German made 111-415-419 parts, the more I realize most vendors do advertise the part with these horrible looking grind marks.  I guess I was not paying close attention to the pictures they posted on their online shops... sample below... huh. Maybe time to buy UK made German Designe parts :-)  who would have guessed.

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We do not use this type of rag joint, so I cannot be of much help here, sorry.

The only thing I can tell you with 100% certainty is to avoid the urethane versions, they are a death trap and will separate eventually.  Stick with OEM if you can.

EDIT: I did a quick search on eBay and there looks to be NOS round versions with the fiber reinforcement available out of Italy.  I would also try Bug City in CT.  They ave a ton of NOS parts and if they don't have it they generally know what quality each replacement part is.  Don't be afraid to spend $50-60 on a higher quality version of this coupler vs. the aftermarket $10 part.  It's pretty important in your application.

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