Future of replicas

I think there was a guy building 356's with a donor Boxter .....

Jim Simpson is a genius, and I've always loved his cars.

He needs to work on marketing, though. His website is not really clear how one would go about buying one of these cars.

Chris Runge makes beautiful cars in the spirit of early German racers.

https://rungecars.com/

Carey at Special Edition has pretty much moved away completely from VW parts in his builds. The chassis is a custom tube frame and the suspension is now Honda (IIRC) based along with the brakes etc. And as the popularity of the Subaru engines becomes even more popular it won't be long before the VW isn't the base for any of the Speedsters.

I'm sure as Greg moves forward he'll look to getting away from them but if not He may eventually have to produce his own pan but that may not be that hard anyway. And there's plenty of aftermarket beams still being made that all new parts can be used in their builds.

I saw that red one (called a Swift) on RCN.  1950's Lotus 11 tribute.

Miata-based Swift by Simpson Design | Rare Car Network (rcnmag.com)

Simpson's cars aren't kit cars but one version is available as a "kit": $12.4k

Simpson Design Miata Italia Body Conversion Kit (gomiata.com)

@Robert M posted:

Carey at Special Edition has pretty much moved away completely from VW parts in his builds. The chassis is a custom tube frame and the suspension is now Honda (IIRC) based along with the brakes etc. And as the popularity of the Subaru engines becomes even more popular it won't be long before the VW isn't the base for any of the Speedsters.

I'm sure as Greg moves forward he'll look to getting away from them but if not He may eventually have to produce his own pan but that may not be that hard anyway. And there's plenty of aftermarket beams still being made that all new parts can be used in their builds.

There are several companies that make chassis for dune buggies. I'm sure an enterprising fellow could make one that worked for a Speedster without too much trouble.

@dlearl476 posted:

There are several companies that make chassis for dune buggies. I'm sure an enterprising fellow could make one that worked for a Speedster without too much trouble.

Very easy to adjust a buggy tube chassis to a speedster, a few inches in the center will work. Acme in PA , VW Store in Drums, PA and Barrett in AZ all make nice bare chassis, they all are around $2,000 plus $350 for a bare torsion housing charge. By the time you add in trailing arm, beam, disc brakes, lines hoses etc. a complete chassis ( if you do the work) is just under $5k.

@Robert M posted:

I'm sure as Greg moves forward he'll look to getting away from them but if not He may eventually have to produce his own pan but that may not be that hard anyway. And there's plenty of aftermarket beams still being made that all new parts can be used in their builds.

I talk to Greg at least a few times a year. We've had many conversations about suspensions and chassis fabrication and getting away from VW underpinnings.

He's taking a major step forward with Bruce's Spyder, it's a matter of time with the coupes and Speedsters.

@DannyP posted:

I talk to Greg at least a few times a year. We've had many conversations about suspensions and chassis fabrication and getting away from VW underpinnings.

He's taking a major step forward with Bruce's Spyder, it's a matter of time with the coupes and Speedsters.

I feel this is an exciting time for Speedster/Spyder replicas. Numerous engine options, newer and better chassis, newer and better suspensions and braking systems etc. People will be able to flog them like they want without breaking them........well maybe without breaking them. But the limits will be pushed further than ever now.

@Alan Merklin posted:

Very easy to adjust a buggy tube chassis to a speedster, a few inches in the center will work. Acme in PA , VW Store in Drums, PA and Barrett in AZ all make nice bare chassis, they all are around $2,000 plus $350 for a bare torsion housing charge. By the time you add in trailing arm, beam, disc brakes, lines hoses etc. a complete chassis ( if you do the work) is just under $5k.

Although I believe the custom chassis are an improvement over a 60+ year old VW pan, they can make it difficult to register (especially if you stick to smog/polluting air cooled engines) plus they are costly.  A lot of banged up Miata's are out there with modern engines, chassis, 6 speed transmissions and 4 wheel disk brakes - 50/50 weight distro to boot.  All for easily under $5k. Tons of aftermarket pieces (springs, shocks, anti-sway bars, turbos, super chargers, brakes) too.  Using a Subaru as a donor (like infamous SAS), where suspension, engine, trans - even wheels is good idea.  Many have registered their plastic cars as the donor vehicle - wonder if you'll see Miata and Subaru registered Speedsters/Spyders?

Back in 60's MGA/TR3-4/AH chassis were used for FF kit cars (Avenger/Jamaica, Astra).  Not a lot of them were out there even then. Pontiac Fiero were popular for Ferrari in 80's - again not that many out there.

Note- since the Miata is light weight with plastic bumpers, aluminum hoods and front fenders, it doesn't take much to total one.  If the air bags go off, changes are good it becomes a potential donor car.  Down side is - you won't easily convert one to rear engine config!

When originally looking at speedster replicas, I was interested in a tube frame chassis. After digging into registration requirements in MN, I quickly lost interest in the tube frame. I would have to register a new tube frame build as a 2020, which means no collector plates, 6.5% tax for the initial purchase, and yearly value based registration. The registration process itself does not appear simple in MN for a new tube frame build.

@Alan Merklin posted:

Very easy to adjust a buggy tube chassis to a speedster, a few inches in the center will work. Acme in PA , VW Store in Drums, PA and Barrett in AZ all make nice bare chassis, they all are around $2,000 plus $350 for a bare torsion housing charge. By the time you add in trailing arm, beam, disc brakes, lines hoses etc. a complete chassis ( if you do the work) is just under $5k.

Barrett in AZ was the company I was talking to when I was playing with my Manx, which is why I was familiar with them and their adaptability to a Speedster body.

In the end, I found a really dry pan to cut. (My Manx had been a true Florida Dune Buggy and the pan was Swiss cheese)

I think Barrett can use the rear torsion tube and horns, retaining the S/N from a donor VW, if I'm not mistaken. During the last days of Thunder Ranch, this is what they were doing. Those cars had a nice, wide (if a bit high) seating area-- something that can accept better and more comfortable seats than an early IM/CMC or Vintage/JPS.

The further down the road I get, the more I think this "hybrid" approach might not be such a bad way to go, assuming some sort of better front suspension could be adapted. There's nothing wrong with the rear end of an IRS Beetle that couldn't be cured with some relocated trailing arms and a set of coil-overs (or with narrowed trailing arms and torsion bars)-- and adapting an A-arm front would not require a Mendeola setup, as long as you weren't dealing with a Napoleon's hat (and you wouldn't be with a fabricated frame). I'd jettison everything in front of the access plate, and build a frame from there using a ubiquitous Mustang 2 style front end.

Doing it right would eliminate the need for a traditional early IM/CMC/Vintage subframe of any kind-- the outboard rails on the pan-replacement frame could just grow, and everything (including some of the steel generally used in the subframe) could hang off them. The body could be bonded into this steel for a nice, tight setup with zero duplication for frame members.

This, coupled with wider mounting points for the front end would allow the cabin and footwell width to grow as wide as those in a Beck or tube-frame IM.

Guys in states with tough replica laws could still register them as VWs, and guys in SEMA states could use the MSO for the bodies to register them as a '57 (or whatever) replica. It'd be win/win.

It's a thought, anyhow.

The torsion tube does have the VIN number, right?

If you're going coilovers in back, you can do the same thing 911 owners do, they bolt on a heim joint plate for a torsion bar cover, then fabricate trailing arms and strengthen the shock towers to support the car's weight. Simple triangulation(like a Kafer bar) can really stiffen up the rear end.

I like Stan's front end idea, but I'd go with a Miata front end rather than the Mustang II. Ford Pinto DNA is WAY worse than VW, IMHO.

@DannyP posted:

If you're going coilovers in back, you can do the same thing 911 owners do, they bolt on a heim joint plate for a torsion bar cover, then fabricate trailing arms and strengthen the shock towers to support the car's weight. Simple triangulation(like a Kafer bar) can really stiffen up the rear end.

Speaking of which, after pouring over my buddy's new Formula Vee a week ago, I'm wondering why nobody has done this on a Spyder/Speedster rear end. Looks simple as pie. I was thinking someone like SwayAway would be all over this.

Sems like a no-brainier to deal with the lack of lighter-than-22mm torsion bars for lighter than VW OEM cars

Well, being as I have a Vintage Spyder, I already have coilovers in back, but it is still a swing axle. They are QA1 Proma-Star,10-14", 275 lb./inch springs.

The Vintage uses a heim joint at the front, trailing arms are fabricated steel tube.

The best part is, no torsion tube to get in the way of my dry sump pump, and I can easily adjust the pre-load on scales.

I've not seen the chassis # on the torsion tube - just on the tunnel 10" forward of the tubes. Around where the red line is in center of the blue marking.

@DannyP posted:

Well, being as I have a Vintage Spyder, I already have coilovers in back, but it is still a swing axle. They are QA1 Proma-Star,10-14", 275 lb./inch springs.

The Vintage uses a heim joint at the front, trailing arms are fabricated steel tube.

The best part is, no torsion tube to get in the way of my dry sump pump, and I can easily adjust the pre-load on scales.

I found this online. Looks pretty simple. So simple, in fact, that I'm going to buy the spring plate caps to heim joint bits and some cro-moly tubing and take them to a pro welder I know and see what we can come up with.

Thanks for posting your shock info, I was going to pm you for it. Next time you have your clamshell up, can you take a few pictures for me?