Headlight switch help

I'm confused by your description. Does the new switch have a #56 terminal or not?

There's many better ways to wire up the constant hots (#30) from the battery to the light switch, fuse box, and starter switch, but below would be "stock".

#30: Red wire (largest) from battery

#30: Red wire (2nd largest) to fuse box (constant hot) (fuses then feed flasher relay, dome light, radio)

#30: Red wire (smaller, unfortunatly) to starter switch

#56: Wire to headlight dimmer relay (dimmer relay then feeds fusebox for headlights)

#58: Wire to fuse box (fuses then feed side marker lights)

#58b: Wire to gauge illumination lights

Blue wire for high/low indicator: connects to one high beam terminal at fuse box

In a normal car, the headlight switch is usually one of the most trouble-free parts.

It's amazing to me how often the ones in our Speedsters cause people grief - a testament to the relentless pursuit of quality in the People's Republic of China.

The one on my VS almost caught fire (where there's smoke...) so I had to figure out how the damned thing is wired a few months back. You can read the whole wordy post here,

https://www.speedsterowners.com...t-a-headlight-switch

but here's a photo of my VS switch, with the terminals labeled after I traced where all of the wires led.

A few key things to remember:

-VS does not follow the original VW wiring scheme.

- Power flows through the headlight switch to the running lights (front parking lights, rear tail lights, license plate light), to the dimmer switch (where it's switched between high beams or low beams), and to the instrument lights.

- Maybe the worst part of the switch (and the part that started smoking on mine) is the rheostat for dimming the instrument lights. If you must use the switch that VS supplies, consider finding another way to dim the dash lights.

- The only fuse for all of this is on the big red wire from the fuse box to the headlight switch.

- Neither original VW wiring nor VS uses proper power-handling relays for the headlights. VW got away with this by building their headlight switches in the same factory that made tanks for Rommel's Panzer divisions. VS tries to get away with this too, spawning the many threads you read here about failed headlight switches. If you're already mucking around with the headlight wiring, save yourself some long-term grief and put in relays.

And try to be philosophical about this. This is not an obstacle to enjoying your Speedster, but an opportunity to marvel at the complexity of its design.

Having just added relays to my headlight wiring system I can vouch for their necessity.

Oops, I misspoke.

On my car, the headlights ARE fused.

The output wires from the dimmer switch go back to the fusebox where power routes through two fuses, one for the high beams and one for the low beams.

But the running lights don't seem to have their own fuses as in the original VW wiring. So, a short in any one of those lights would take out the big fuse that sends power to the headlight switch, and you'd be making your way home by the light of your navigator's Zippo lighter.

Both the headlight switch and the dimmer relay need a 12v power feed.

On my car, they got power to the dimmer relay by running a red wire from the hot terminal of the headlight switch to the relay. But the power for the dimmer switch can come from any number of places (directly from the fusebox, for example).

So, that's probably the red wire that's 'missing' from your headlight switch.

Ok, I'll make notes on what ya'll said here but are there standard part numbers (or sources) for the switches and relays? Or are they straight VW and you add the bezel and knobs for visual accuracy?

I'm finally doing the dash on my CMC so I ordered one from Sierra Madre but it's tiny and only a two prong (nothing like what's above) so I clearly bought the wrong one.

I like these from Bug City:  p/n 113941531B

https://www.bugcity.com/shop/s...0cb2f2F2E5Ho710C68E5

Bezels and knobs fit the switch threads for either Porsche or VW bezels and knobs.

$32 bucks and while NOT German (I think they're Brazilian) they seem to work and last just fine.

The relays are another thing, depending on whether they're going into a relay box with appropriate sockets or you expect to screw them to a panel with mounting tabs.  

Either way, they have 30-amp 12V relays, both SPST and SPDT at Napa and AutoZone, etc.  I use a lot of Item#: 0332019157 from a place like Bug city, but just about any 12V 30 amp automotive/Marine relay will work.  Expect to spend between $10-$15 bucks each for good ones.  The $40+ German versions aren't really worth it.

Another GREAT source for relays is just walking through a Pic-A-Part salvage yard.  Many OEM relays have a wiring diagram screened onto the case so you know what you get (plus, they have a standardized base tab configuration so they'll fit a standard socket).  Wander around, pick up ten or so and they usually get $10 bucks for all of them.

BTW:  I've talked about the fuse/relay panel I used, but have never shown it.  It came from a Sterling Convertible (can't remember which model) found in a junk yard.  I grabbed it because (1.) It had the right number of fuses and relays for what I wanted (actually more than I wanted, but I used a lot of them), (2.) Everything on it was Bosch and (3.) It was dirt cheap - like $5 bucks.

Just cut off all of the wires and figured out what contacts I needed to use and bought small boxes of them, then just wired it up as I needed.  Here it is as normally seen in the trunk compartment (NOT up under the dash!), just behind the gas tank, and mounted to the firewall on the driver's side.  The protective plastic cover is in place:

With the cover removed, it looks like this and has relays for; ignition, horn, Alternate circuits ("Alt" in American cars), headlight main power (driven by the headlight switch, the hi/lo relay is under the dash and toggles), driving lights and fog lights.  

In addition, elsewhere in the car I have a starter relay a few inches from the starter and driven by the key starter position, a brake light relay up under the dash and driven by my (mechanical) stop light switch on the pedal, and a relay for the oil cooler fan, driven by the oil temp thermostat.  The relays are color-coded as yellow (dual SPST) and Green (dual SPDT).

The fuses are (IIRC....It's been a while):  Headlight hi beam, headlight lo beam (two fuses on the right), Ignition, "Alt" ignition, marker lights, Horn, Radio, Oil Cooler Fan, Driving Lights, Fog Lights and a couple more that I can't remember.  The big fuse links at the top are only used in two places and are 30 and 50 amp buggers which then feed the fuses before the relays (in order to "save" the relays in case of a short).  The other positions are "spares".  The cluster of fuses on the left side are all spares and the thing above them is a fuse puller.   There are two bundles of wires to this block, each about 1" in diameter, feeding through the bulkhead into the under-dash.

This just got complicated.... relays for everything... uggghhh.... so frustrating... this isn't fun anymore... Maybe I will make a youtube video and blow this car up or something actually fun and entertaining. So much money and time spent on just the wiring of something that should be simple but is quickly becoming complicated. It pains me to think I am going to have to hack and butcher a "factory" VS harness to make this all work. Headlight relays, dimmer relays, floor mat relays, shift knob relays... sheesh. I want this thing to work with minimal effort... I don't have the heart to butcher this harness...

I share your pain. I hate things I cannot see and electricity is pretty much invisible. It doesn't have to be that bad. Simple example...I needed brighter headlights. A voltmeter showed I was getting 9.8 V at the lamps.

I snuck up to the wiring and figured out which went to the high and low beams and installed two, dual outlet relays ( bosch, about $8. each ) up near the battery in the front trunk and wound up with 13.8 V at the lights. A very pleasing world of difference.

One thing on my agenda is to replace as many crimped connections as possible. I've got lot's and any one of many could shut off my motor. We managed a quick repair in Florida recently and the lad had a beautiful butane fired soldering gun. Still looking for one. Ideas appreciated if you've used one.

I had one before, I think you should visit Princess Auto you might find one you like. 

Time for a break, then, or maybe a beer.

I think Gordon did what he did to have fun - there are those of us who are peculiar that way - but most of it wasn't really necessary.

His solution is a great way to get a lot of good components neatly mounted in a very small space - and at a very low price. If you like picking things apart and putting them back together and having everything light up and make noise when you're done, then you can do something like he did.

But there are thousands of VW's and Speedsters running around with almost no relays and doing just fine.

Take it one step at a time, do what you're comfortable with, fix what's broke on any given day.

And if it ain't broke, jump in and go for a drive.

I don't know about the differences between a VS harness and that in a Beck, but I have done nothing to my wiring in 9 years and had no problems (probably because I haven't touched it).  Maybe you can leave well enough alone.  Fingers crossed.

What is a wiring harness??  Oh, you mean where the wires are neatly bundled and laced and led from one point to another, usually color coded.  Hmmm . . .  probably have one of those in my Mazda, but the JPS Speedster?  Not even close. I really should take a picture of the rat's nest under my dash -- recently someone here did that in another thread, Brandon maybe.

My headlight switch saga, still on-going: original Chinese switch went south (smelled no smoke, but evidence of fire or nearly that seen inside).  Got  VW one to replace, but it is not switched the same, so some functions not quite as before, but the lights work,  So cool.  While at it, I decided to put a relay between the ignition switch and the hot feed to the light switch, and this included an in-line fuse.  The point being, if you turn off the car the lights go off too now.  Like what all my modern cars have done for some time, some with a nice time delay included.  I toyed w/ idea of installing the time delay, but did not go that far. So ask me how many times I have neglected to turn off my headlights when I park the car, and have a dead battery as a result.  Answer: too many times.  So now I have saved myself from myself.

Next issue: the fine German VW headlight switch I got at the Carlisle flea market does not mount to the dash the same way as the original, and to mount it I'd need to drill a bigger hole in the dash, and give up my cute bezel that matches all the other switches.  So I asked Henry at IM about how he does this job, and looks like his switch (from Brazil, he says, and good goods, he says) will do the job.  We are in negotiations. 

And finally, do I ever feel the pain espoused here: this wiring thing is WAY more complicated than it needs to be.  Or I am WAY more stupid than I have believed up to now.

And PS: when I lost the headlights when the switch failed, of course it was dark as sin.  I discovered that the switch still provided power to the dimmer relay, and if I held that switch down, the driving lights (operated with a high power relay) would come on, but they would not toggle and stay on.  So off I went, holding the dimmer switch on the turn signal down. 20 min ride to home, and half way there, the driving lights go out, and the rest of the way was by flashlight, and one turn signal flashing to alert fellow drivers.  Turns out the momentary switch that is the dimmer, is indeed designed to be momentary.  Literature about these relays says quite plainly: do not hold it in the on position.  So I fried that rascal too.  Found a new one on-line and fixed that problem with a swap-out.

And I am going to say it:

this isn't fun anymore . . .

A long time ago, I mentioned that building my car was therapy for too much stress at work.  We were designing this thing at the time:

A computer storage array with record breaking performance.  They sold like Hot Cakes.  I was mostly involved with the hardware side so designing a lot of relays into my car seemed like a cool thing to do at the time.  It got me away from the old, VW, cartridge-style fuse block that had it's own set of problems.  Besides, those ancient, original donor switches I used from a '69 VW Beetle will probably never wear to the point of failure if all they drive are relays.

So yes, my fuse/relay block was WAY overkill, but it gave me something constructive to do and it certainly has it's advantages.  Instead of relays all over the place, they're all right in one spot.

I looked at my wiring harness when I wired in a power plug (so I guess I did mess with it some), and was impressed with how professional it looked.  The only failed component was a cheap ignition switch, which I have since replaced with a Bosch using.

Do you retain the dimmer relay when you wire relays for your headlight relays? I have been reading up by searching here and don't see any mention of it... I would think you would need 2 relays... 1 for high and 1 for low beams.

On mine, there are two for the headlights (but, then again, I went a little overboard with the relays).

I used a stock, 1969 VW headlight hi/lo dimmer relay because it mechanically toggles.   Pull the directional stock once and it toggles to one state (hi or low) and stays there, toggle it again and it flips to the other.

That relay drives another 40 amp relay that provides the actual power to the headlights and it toggles between hi and lo, too.  

All this was done to minimize current draw to the headlight switch and hi/lo switch on the column to make them last for the life of the car.

The dimmer relay is a latching type. That is, it toggles its output from one terminal to the other and holds it there until the button is pressed again. Most dimmer switches used here are momentary, they have no way to hold a position themselves so they require the dimmer relay to do that. If you only used just a standard relay, your high beams would only work as long as you held the switch down. If your dimmer switch is a toggle switch, then you could get away with only using standard relays.

You don't need a relay each for high and low, just get a relay with 87 and 87a outputs (the common SPDT type). Only one output is active at any given time, so you use one terminal for high, one for low, just like on the dimmer relay itself.

In my opinion, there is no real need for extra relays if you have good (condition and size) wiring from the battery, to and from the dimmer relay, and to lights. However, difficulty in doing that harness upgrade properly may mean that adding extra relays is easier.

A stand alone cheap aftermarket switch w/o a relay can heat up quickly and have a slight acrid smell to it,  the stat can act as a resistor i.e. getting hot w/o a relay in place to serve as the actual switching switch .... You can still use an aftermarket cheapo switch, it will be fine as the switch the operates a relay.

Alan, I just took the switch out... sucks it is a brand stinking new (pun intended) from VS. It's VS's harness and switch. Thankfully I caught it. I'd like to make this $30 switch work... because I have it and I paid for it. A cheap switch as you suggest won't have a gauge dimmer in it will it? I got my multi meter out and the rheostat still provides a variable resistance. It's definitely the switch thats smelly. I took it out and my wife confirmed that it's the same burning smell... hard to mistake. It smells burned up. I am researching headlight relays now.... but what I am not finding is a better way to provide resistance to the gauge lights. They are freakin' bright... It would be nice to be able to dim them. Thanks guys

The rheostat in the VS switch is like a mesquite barbecue. It takes a while to get going really good.

The solution I used to dim the instrument lights works, but it's such a kludge I couldn't recommend it to anyone else. I figured out how much resistance I'd need in the circuit to dim the lights just enough, and then wired up some ceramic power resistors under the dash to do the job. I don't have anything hooked up to the dimming circuit on the switch.

The real way is to find a switch that's up to the job. An original VW headlight switch will work, if you can find one (maybe in a junkyard?), and there are some aftermarket VW switches folks here have found that will work, too.

Practically any old school headlight switch, of any make, will work. (Modern cars dim the instrument lights electronically). The problem is finding one that will thread onto the screw-in bezel that holds your current switch in the dash and also accept the knob you're using. Ordering online, it's hard to know for sure.

The reason I stuck with the cheesy VS switch and found a way to make it work electrically was that I wanted to match the other knobs in the dash.

Wow.....Suddenly, my fuse/relay panel looks like a good investment!

Sure made using all of those old, almost worn-out, VW donor car switches easier.

Thats where I am... I want to make it look lie the rest of them. Now that I sorted out the small wiring issue, I would probably pay for an NOS VW switch and be done with it. The VW switch that I replaced it with was flat worn out. The bushings were worn out and it was having internal contact issues. It still worked, but was worn out. 

Look here:

https://www.bugcity.com/shop/s...0cd8733780WwD401E640

for this part number (new old stock OEM VW, $32.95)

Item#: 113941531B

If you want old German, the price varies between $50-ish and $110-ish

How does that help me?

OK, so you want a real German switch for a better rheostat for the dash lights, right?

Get a real NOS VW German one (big bucks) or see my post right above yours.

You want something to handle the headlights?  Get a relay kit for them and drive it off of your dimmer relay or switch.

This will work perfectly:

http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/hlrelay

Get this:  

P/N 30815

Gordon thanks... I was just reading some stuff on their website to see what kit would work the easiest. 

Ok so what are we talking as far as amperage on a headlight relay? 20 amps? 30?