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Heating Our Tubs

FM Former Member
It's that time of year. It's cool and I still have that Eberspacher heater, not installed. I thought I'd crack open the egg and we could talk heaters. I searched the old archives for a few of our posts from last year and plagerized (pasted) them here for us.

Please comment:

Jack M, Sweet CMC-C


(Message Edited 11/8/2002 12:15:26 PM)

***
A couple of you asked for info on the electric heater I had installed in my IM for defrost. I bought it about 12 years ago from a company called Instant Auto Heater Co, Inc, PO Box 307, Woodside, NY 11377 (718)476-1723 or (718) 476-2497. No idea whether they are still in business or not.

This little heater defrosts my windshield in a matter of minutes in below zero and will heat the interior up to comfortable temp. It tucks up under the dash and I have it ducted into the heater control assembly. It was about $200 back then.

Brian Puskas



(Message Edited 11/8/2002 12:16:05 PM)

****
From: Jim Ward

Below are a couple of interesting links on 12V heaters. I think a look at EAA VW Powered Homebuilt Aircraft might be an excellent source for us to find lightweight and effective heaters. Same goes for gas powered golf carts. Two links below and I am still looking.

Jim OKC

ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Composite_Aircraft_Accessories/homepage.htm
Above is the 12 volt Electric Cabin Heater and controller. The heater is 8 1/2 inches long and has an output diameter of 2.2 inches. It is 3.5 inches in diameter at its largest spot and weighs one pound. It connects to the controllers terminal strip via the 3 #10 wires and one #18 wire that exit from the bottom. The heater has 3 temperature settings: low, medium and high. These are selected using the small 4 position rotary switch that mounts on the panel with the LED and is connected to the controller via the 6 conductor gray cable. The controller is connected directly to the battery using the two #8 red and black wires. All wires are 6 foot in length. The heater has 2 thermal sensors which will trip the green panel LED to red and
disable the heater if an over temperature condition should exist. This is self resettable after the unit cools off. A thermal fuse will melt if the condition persists. Low is about 80F @ 15CFM. Medium is about 140F @ 30CFM and high is about 160F @ 30CFM. The elements are designed to have no glow.
Airplanes should NOT be heated with infrared energy. Only heated air is acceptable. The heater draws nearly 40 amps on the high position so this should be taken into account. These are custom made to order. The delivery dates are about 6 weeks ARO. We have sold over 650 units since 1991! $300 delivered.


A quick check on-line shows multiple listings of small, low drain, 12V
heaters for Golf Carts. One of the earliest promising sites is:
www.genesisny.net/HeatersE.html .


(Message Edited 11/8/2002 12:16:45 PM)
Original Post

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FM Former Member
It's that time of year. It's cool and I still have that Eberspacher heater, not installed. I thought I'd crack open the egg and we could talk heaters. I searched the old archives for a few of our posts from last year and plagerized (pasted) them here for us.

Please comment:

Jack M, Sweet CMC-C


(Message Edited 11/8/2002 12:15:26 PM)

***
A couple of you asked for info on the electric heater I had installed in my IM for defrost. I bought it about 12 years ago from a company called Instant Auto Heater Co, Inc, PO Box 307, Woodside, NY 11377 (718)476-1723 or (718) 476-2497. No idea whether they are still in business or not.

This little heater defrosts my windshield in a matter of minutes in below zero and will heat the interior up to comfortable temp. It tucks up under the dash and I have it ducted into the heater control assembly. It was about $200 back then.

Brian Puskas



(Message Edited 11/8/2002 12:16:05 PM)

****
From: Jim Ward

Below are a couple of interesting links on 12V heaters. I think a look at EAA VW Powered Homebuilt Aircraft might be an excellent source for us to find lightweight and effective heaters. Same goes for gas powered golf carts. Two links below and I am still looking.

Jim OKC

ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Composite_Aircraft_Accessories/homepage.htm
Above is the 12 volt Electric Cabin Heater and controller. The heater is 8 1/2 inches long and has an output diameter of 2.2 inches. It is 3.5 inches in diameter at its largest spot and weighs one pound. It connects to the controllers terminal strip via the 3 #10 wires and one #18 wire that exit from the bottom. The heater has 3 temperature settings: low, medium and high. These are selected using the small 4 position rotary switch that mounts on the panel with the LED and is connected to the controller via the 6 conductor gray cable. The controller is connected directly to the battery using the two #8 red and black wires. All wires are 6 foot in length. The heater has 2 thermal sensors which will trip the green panel LED to red and
disable the heater if an over temperature condition should exist. This is self resettable after the unit cools off. A thermal fuse will melt if the condition persists. Low is about 80F @ 15CFM. Medium is about 140F @ 30CFM and high is about 160F @ 30CFM. The elements are designed to have no glow.
Airplanes should NOT be heated with infrared energy. Only heated air is acceptable. The heater draws nearly 40 amps on the high position so this should be taken into account. These are custom made to order. The delivery dates are about 6 weeks ARO. We have sold over 650 units since 1991! $300 delivered.


A quick check on-line shows multiple listings of small, low drain, 12V
heaters for Golf Carts. One of the earliest promising sites is:
www.genesisny.net/HeatersE.html .


(Message Edited 11/8/2002 12:16:45 PM)
FM Former Member
***
From: tactwo
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2001 9:25 am
Subject: Re: [Speedsters] Heater Blower


more thoughts on heater blowers, Speedster Bill M.
came up with a great idea, See the pix for a 3"
marine inline blower that seems like it would go
nicely between the heater boxes and the body. I expect
to go this route, available off the internet for
about $15.00. I was goin to do the PC fan option till
I found these (great minds think alike!)

MOORE Sites
www.rodnreel.com/dmarine/imbl03.htm

www.parkeryamaha.com/bilgeblower.htm

www.saltwatersupplies.com/supplies/bilgeblowers.html

www.marineparts.com/partspages/Accessories/ACC4.HTM

www.iboats.com/products/7/3011_seachoice_inline_bilge_blowers.html

www.rexmar.com/page28.html



***
From: william mcintire
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2001 9:29 am
Subject: Re: [Speedsters] Heater Blower



FWIW
Marine supply places sell bilge blowers
(overtons.com and search for bilge blowers).
These are cute little dudes with the blower in a
tube that will mount in your heat ducts. As they
are for marine use they are H2O proof and make no
sparks, so your leaking fuel won't turn you into a
flare. They have 2 sizes and are 20 & 22 bucks
respectivly.
Usual disclaimers apply.
Bill


***
From: "George Brown (truman.g.brown@V...)"
Date: Mon Oct 8, 2001 4:29 pm
Subject: [Speedsters] Re: defog/defrost


If your car doesn't have a 3-speed 12V electric auxilliary fan to
supplement what we used to call the "wheeze system", you might want
to install one. The Grainger catalog has various 12V fans, and a
little ingenuity and flex hose should do the trick. Some VW parts
houses also sell fan kits for this purpose. If possible, use a
low-noise fan, especially if you have to mount it under the dash.

Also, check all the heat and defrost routing connections, channels,
and/or hoses for leaks and tighten up (or patch) whatever you can.

Note that on VW pan based cars (and Porsches) the heater air transfer
channels were boxed into the pan and tend to rust through over the
years, which makes heating and defogging go from bad to non-existant.
This also weakens the pan/frame as the channels were designed as an
integral structural part of the chassis. This is another good reason
to build a tube-frame replica that uses fibreglass or other no-rust
tubing for the heater channels.


(Message Edited 11/8/2002 12:28:12 PM)
Ron ORon O1984/2010 IM, B.C. Canada
I solved most of my heating problem by buying my wife an electrically heated vest. Bought it from a motorcycle shop....put a 12 volt style plug on the end and plugged it into the cigarette lighter socket. Now she gets really warm, falls asleep and then I can drive really fast (until she wakes up).
oldyeleroldyeler
I used the Attwood belge pump blowers as Jack was saying I put them so they push the air into the exchangers, instead of pulling it They where loud, and I had to find soft foam hoses to help keep them Quiet but they do make a nice breeze, at the toe vents. i also have a 12 volt hair dryer to use as a defrost booster. I kept the 70 vw heat levers they turn on the heat fan and open the rear ducts. With another micro switch I will turn on the booster when you open the right lever all the way.. I have yet to install it. But it will cook your nose.

(Message Edited 11/8/2002 6:08:23 PM)
FM Former Member
For those interested thesamba.com has listed used aftermarket gas heaters. Also doing a search of the respective 2 types of manufacturers, rebuilders and repair kits are accessable. New gas units may be available, I did not search that far.
The direction I am going currently is the use of waste heat off of the oil lines connected to my front mounted oil cooler and isolated with a couple of ball valves.
I center mounted a JC Whitney interior car heater with a copper coil, 3 spd motor which spins 2 barrel fans(1 ea. end of the motor).
This fits nicely under the dash, 2 hose to the defrosters and 4 direction outlets blow down.
I formed a fiberglass shroud to hold my radio & a couple of gauges, this also cover the heater and encloses underneath the dash.
I have a two speed switch from a old vw mounted next to my wiper switch using only the med and high motor speeds.
Current drain was rectified by having good bat. connections.YEA! Getting the eng temp up to a usable range on 10 to 30 degree days, I am still working on that. Temp above that and/or longer drives, It become nice and toasty within 15 min. Looking a making a smaller and easy to remove apprature for the fan shroud opening. To reduce cooling from the alt.fan? Unsure how that will work. Or some how use the oem internal dog hse air deflectors with my scatt shroud. Keeping the windows clear is a big improvement, through about a foot of the center of the wind shield does not get suff air movemnet to clear. Have to work on that.


(Message Edited 11/16/2002 2:09:54 PM)
WideRidezzzWideRidezzz
Has anyone used the type of plug-in heater that is currently (no pun intended for you Humor majors and English minorists) on eBay?
They seem real close to that " if it sounds to good to be true, it is" category...small, effective and cheap.
I love Ron's solution!
Ain't it the truth, you get the car just right and she don't want to ride with the top down, or all the questions,
"why is it so loud?" or my favorite, "Is it supposed to sound like that?"

Out of the mouths of babes...
I Inter911
I tried those $20 plug in 12 volt heaters and found them to be a waste of money. If you do the math you'll see that a little 12 volt heater plugged into a cigarette lighter just can't put out any serious BTUs...the wiring can't handle the draw.

The heater I have is wired direct to the battery with 3 hot wires each with a 20 amp fuse...total is a 60 amp draw. Course I have to monitor the charging system and I have a little plug in guage that goes in the cigarette lighter socket for that.

I do have a working BN2 heater that I was going to list on E-Bay
Thursday or Friday if anyone is interested. Will come with a copy of installation instructions into a VW and troubleshooting guide. Be looking for $175. Also have a spare core..working fan, switches, etc but no fuel pump. If anyone is interested send me an e-mail. Was going to put one in my 912 then got a Webasto...then going to put in a VW van then got the proper BN4 so now they're spare.

I Inter911
Don't know why I didn't think of it before...

I live in Canada's Arctic and keeping warm seems to be something I'm always concerned with. When we visit my inlaws who live in a small, isolated village on the western shores of Hudson's Bay we travel by snowmobile and sled over the sea ice. Last year was a 4 hour trip in minus 40 with howling wind.

Years ago I used to use one of those big hand warmers to keep warm. We'd fill it up with Naptha or lighter fluid then light it up and keep it in the sled under some 5 star sleeping bags to keep us warm. Those things would generate a lot of heat in a confined space!

So it seems to me they might work okay in our tubs with the tops up. Light up one or two and put in the foot wells out of harms way. No plumbing, no wiring...simple.

Anyway, checked on Ebay and this is what I'm talking about...

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1971056936
Colton P.Colton P.
I am sure these hand warmers are relatively safe in most regards... I used to have one when I was in the military. However, I am not sure I would be comfortable with laying a flammable heating device down on the floor with all that carpet and fiberglass. My 12V electric heater arrived today and I am going to try it out in my SUV this week (I don't have the 12V outlet installed in my Speedster yet) to see how it works. I will let you all know.
HossHoss
Colton, if Brian is talking about a catalytic heater, I don't think there would be any great threat to flammable items in close proximity. What I am thinking of is designed to be carried in your pocket, close to your clothing and your bod. If you trust them for this, I think you would be safe in your car. However, can these items produce enough heat to be really helpful Brian? Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong device?
John H.

(Message Edited 11/28/2002 9:03:46 AM)
I Inter911
I like that electric blanket idea!

Those hand warmers...the larger ones like the Jon-e Giant really do throw a fair amount of heat and you're right, they are designed to be in the close proximity of clothing so fire should not be a concern. We used to use parkas up here that actually had two interior chest "pockets" that came with smaller versions of Jon-e heater. You'd light up the heaters, pop them in the pockets then go out in the cold...once was out in minus 55 with winds that knocked you on your butt. Still toasty warm!

I just figured that a person could suspend a couple of those Jon-E units under the dash on a wire or string or whatever out of the way of your driving feet and they could heat up the footwells and waft up to the rest of the car.

Actually, what temps are we talking about here? I've driven my IM with no heat in temps down to minus 15. Just crack open the window a bit to help stop the windshield from fogging up and wear a warm coat, hat and gloves and there's no problem.
Colton P.Colton P.
The pocket warmers I have seen use lighter fluid... you soak a material inside the case and it is lit. The material doesn't burn and I guess also causes the lighter fluid to burn at a very low rate so there is no fire. I am sure they are safe because I had one myself and it was a life saver in cold weather duty, but I just don't like the idea of placing something like that on the floor.

Anyway, I gave the 12V heater a try yesterday in my SUV and that little sucker definitely put out a nice amount of heat... felt like plenty to make enough of a difference in a Speedster. It wasn't as quiet as I thought it would be, but the noise wasn't that bad either... and I am sure it would be drowned out with engine noise. It is pretty small and is on a mounting so you can move it 90 degrees back and forth and 45 degrees up and down. I am going to velcro it up against the front wall and between the driver and passenger seats because my feet are usually the "coldest".

I bought the "koolatron" (www.koolatron.com) and it was about $20 with shipping.
I Inter911
I once bought one of those Koolatron and returned it as it did nothing. Of course it was minus 35 then that little guy made no difference at all. I think it depends on what "cold" means to you. If you're in moderate temps the little Koolatron would probably help...it could definitely provide defrosting on chilly mornings.

I've also seem a bit larger unit up here. Like one of those 100 volt ceramic heaters only a bit smaller...about 5x5x5. Being sold as a "back seat auxillary heater". I plan on buying one of those to provide just that as I am planning to drive 12,000 kms with my wife and daughter and want to mitigate the complaints from the back seat. I'll post the results of the heater later.
Colton P.Colton P.
I live in the Mid-East... Washington DC area. So, yeah, our definitions of cold are probably not found in the same dictionary. I think the Koolatron will keep my feet warm which is my main concern and make enough of a difference in the cockpit to keep the windows defrosted.

Is this the heater you saw?

shop.store.yahoo.com/rodi/bacseatheat3.html

Or this one?

www.quadratec.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?&UREQA=1&UREQB=2&UREQC=3&UREQD=4&FNM=00&T1=92060+00&AID=8265584&PID=1181904

(Message Edited 12/4/2002 3:53:11 PM)
FM Former Member
Once it became an option, most VW's delivered to far northern states and almost all delivered to Canada had factory gas heaters; it was "special order" on the type 181 (Thing) which was made in Mexico or other VW cars delivered to southern states. Both my 1967 VW sunroof sedan and 1974 type 181 had gas heaters and they worked very well but introduced an odor into the cockpit (but not unpleasant).
I Inter911
One more idea...

What about a Webasto Gas heater? These are very popular in Europe...deisels usually but there are gas (benzin) models. They are used to pre-heat the cooling system to ensure cold weather starts and to boost the temp of the coolant to heat the interior when underway. They are about 5x6x9 (and up)and literally sip fuel. BTUs are 5,000 and up!!They contain a fuel pump, combustion chamber, heat exchanger, and coolant pump. Pretty much a self contained unit. Most are sold for specific applications and the kits can be sophisticated with remotes, timers, etc but often someone just has the unit for sale. (see below Ebay link)

Perhaps you could instal one and plumb it back to a heater core with fan in the tub and you'd probably have to instal some sort of overflow jug with pressure relief cap. Actually, it sounds kind of simple and you'd have a "normal" heating system.

Here's one for sale on Ebay Germany..
cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1921562469

Any here's a website for more info..
www.webasto-thermo.com/

Anyone ever had experience with these? I've been considering a deisel unit for the past couple of years to use in my Benz but every year I swear its my last up north...

Brian Puskas

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