Help! Engine won't start after a cold winter of sleeping...

Dumb Q... may sound elementary.... but does your car have a kill switch under the dash? 

If you have already checked to make sure you carbs are getting gas and  checked you are getting spark... you may want to check your kill switch.

If  you have one, flick it on-off-on a couple times... corrosion from humidity can break the contact, and car wont to start.

the first year I had one of these cars, I actually forgot after a few months of storage about the kill switch.   And it took me three days trying everything under the sun before I flicked it back to the "on" position..

.... could also be your grounds.  Corrosion builds up quickly in some environments,

x2 on gas getting into the carbs. Fuel pump, electric or mechanical?

If not, put a little in the carb/carbs and try starting. Be careful not to drain your battery!

   Turn the ignition switch to  on and with a test light or volt meter , confirm you have  voltage at the = positive marked side of the coil.

  Blip throttle linkage to conform you smell gas in the carbs, if not pull the fuel line off the carb and check  for fuel.

  If you have voltage and fuel, pull a plug wire and check for spark from coil by cranking  over the motor

That should give you direction to the problem either electrical or fuel related

Points or electronic ignition?  Points could need a light touch up with a point file.

What’s gone wrong?  

Most likely, the fuel in the carbs has dried out and, assuming you have a mechanical fuel pump, the engine hasn’t turned over fast enough or long enough to fill the carbs to let it start properly.  Happens all the time in New England.  It’s the climate.

Check for the kill switch, first.  That was a good idea to check.

Also, put a battery charger on it to bring the battery up to full charge before you try starting it again - it might take a few seconds to catch when you try it again.  Jumper cables would work, too, but let it charge for a couple of minutes at least before trying to start it.

If it were mine, I would remove the air cleaners so you can look down the carb throats.  Then, get a teaspoon measuring spoon (or something close in size) and pour a teaspoonful (or thereabouts) of raw gasoline down each carb throat (just dump it in).  Leave the air filters off for the moment. 

Get right into the car and try starting it up.  Just before you hit the key, pump the accelerator like 6 or 8 times and THEN hit the key.  It will cough and puke a lot at first, but it should start and run a few revs to get fuel flowing from the fuel pump, then, most likely, it will die.

You may have to repeat the procedure a couple of times, but it should start, run poorly at first, then eventually smooth out.  Keep playing with the throttle to keep it going until it will idle on its’ own, then it should be ok 👌. 

If none of this works, something more serious is afoot, but if it has spark and has fuel in the carbs, even old fuel from last Fall, it should start.  Sometimes it just takes a while at the first time in the Spring.

Good luck.

At least 5 month old ethanol gas?  Try a little spray starting ether in each carb.  If it fires and run a little.  Then you have bad gas.  30 days and ethanol gas drops way down in octane unless treated with an ethanol stabilizer.  It actually smells bad and looks yellow.

It could be a bad fuel pump too - is it stock mechanical or electric.  Pull gas line and have some one turn engine over and see if it pumps gas (if mechanical) or turn on if electric and see if it pumps gas.

Thanks everyone!  So, what you're saying is: I need a mechanic.  :-)  

I'll look around for a kill switch tomorrow.  Is there a standard place I might find that?  Or, could it be anywhere?  

Assuming that's not the issue, I'll look through your comments, and see if I can figure out what a carb is, what grounds look like, what a fuel pump looks like, what a coil is and where its positive side might be, etc.  

Alternatively, anyone mechanically inclined in the Boston area feel like stopping by in exchange for a decadent lunch, with open bar policy? 

Thanks again!

Justin

Troy, I may have found your next car!

Justin... no need for a mechanic.  This is something you can really do you self.

- start making sure you have a fully charged battery.  connect to a charger over night.

- Then start by checking the carbs are getting gas...Iike any puzzle, diagnosing these cars is just a process of elimination, and there are only a couple things it could be, all mentioned above.

having no gas in the carbs is the likely culprit.  

- with a fully charged battery, just pump your gas pedal 8-9 times.. and then try cranking the car... again and again.  While holding down your gas pedal.

- if you start smelling gas, it means you carbs are getting gas, (and maybe you flooded de carbs.). Hopefully by now it will catch.  If it does not,  walk away for a bit, connect your battery to the charger, and try again after a couple hours.

Alternatively, call AAA roadside assistance,   they will show up with fresh gas, a battery charger, and the skills to help you start your car assuming it's either of the typical  gas or spark problems.

side  note- a AAA membership is the best insurance you can have for any vintage car.  ( because of the included roadside assistance and 4 free tows per year... with a Plus membership.)

The feeling of satisfaction after getting your car started after a long winter = PRICELESS.

Agreed about the towing, flatbed is a must....I use Hagerty and towing is included with my policy. I have used it once and they were awesome and timely.

Spark or fuel, that's all it is. If you have a mechanical fuel pump, it can take some time to get the gas flowing into the carbs. I filled the float bowls manually on a sand rail I worked on, through the fuel inlet on each carb. Then it fired right up!

Jmasonary wrote :  .......see if I can figure out what a carb is, what grounds look like, what a fuel pump looks like, what a coil is and where its positive side might be, etc. 

Jason, You do need a Life Line and " Phone a Friend"  ...not being mechanically inclined  is the #1 reason many speedsters become disenchanted hence the car gets sold off in short order as the owner needs be able to do most of the work.....taking it to a mechanic is a bottomle$$ pit ( good luck finding a good air-cooled guy)   Anyway, be sure to buy John Muir's book VW idiot book,  It's a great manual for basics and explained in a way that is understandable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/How-t...GUBaR8xo&vxp=mtr

Jimwrote: 

I'll look around for a kill switch tomorrow.  Is there a standard place I might find that?  Or, could it be anywhere?  

No standard place, but usually somewhere under the dash.  HOWEVER!  If you didn't know about it last January, and you weren't fiddling around under the dash, it is probably still "on".  

Assuming that's not the issue, I'll look through your comments, and see if I can figure out what a carb is, what grounds look like, what a fuel pump looks like, what a coil is and where its positive side might be, etc.

Oh-Ohhhhh........   That's not a reassuring statement.  It might be best to find someone in the neighborhood or at work who is a motorhead and understands carbureted engines (not fuel injected, carbureted...There's a difference) and ask them to stop by and help you out.  You could try the "Good News Garage" in Cambridge (run by descendants of the "Car Talk Guys" on WBUR)   Just tell them what the car is and I'm sure someone will want to help, if for nothing more than a ride in it.  I have a bunch of family stuff this weekend or I might be there.  I hope to be in Quincy at the DMV late next week or the week after and could swing by after my visit if it hasn't been started by then.  Borrow a battery charger and put it on your battery overnight sometime to get it charged back up before you try starting it again.

UPDATE:  I'm emailed a friend who drives a 550 replica and used to live in Charlestown who might be able to help (if he's still around - he retired a year or two ago).  If he responds, I'll hook you up.  Please PM me with your contact info (and I'll also add you to the New England Speedster/550 group)

Ruh-roah.

I’d recommend signing up for an automotive class at a community college. This is the first of many, many (many) issues you’re going to have. 

Forewarned is forearmed. 

You're a candidate for How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive: A Manual of Step-by-Step Procedures for the Complete Idiot [John Muir, Tosh Gregg, Peter Aschwanden].  Buy a used one for $8 off Amazon.  the contents have not changed in 40 years.  Ha - had to laugh when you said push it down a 3 story parking garage to a flat bed.  Now up would have been the real challenge.

Do you know if you have an electric or OEM mechanical gas pump. Here's mechanical one -

With electric - you should hear a clicking or "whur" when the key is turned on. They are usually installed under the gas tank but could be above transmission or to the side.

Thanks everybody; lots of great and actionable advice here!  

I tried Hagerty (also my insurer) but they just do jump starts and tows.  I'll try the Good News Garage next; then join AAA.

Think I'll give it another try on my own first.  Previously, I was hesitant to give it too much gas for fear of flooding.  Lfepardo, your method is next!  (actually, I'm hoping to have the car running before my mom visits from Seattle(!) next week...)

Gordon, thanks so much for offer to come by next week!  If I'm still struggling, I'll try to take you up on that.  I'll also PM my info for your friend in Charlestown...

Thanks again, everyone!  With your generous guidance, I hope to be up and running within a week or so...

Justin

Adding to @Lfepardo 's good advice:

Pumping the gas pedal before cranking the engine won't put any gas into the cylinders if there's no gas in the carbs to begin with. And that's generally the case if a car has sat for months without being started.

There are small reservoirs inside the carburetors (called 'float bowls') that must have gas in them before pumping the pedal does any good.

As others have said, if you have an electric fuel pump, it will pump gas all the way from the gas tank to the carbs just by turning on the ignition and waiting a few seconds. But if you have the manual fuel pump that was standard equipment on VW engines, the engine has to crank quite a bit before gas gets from the tank to the carbs and fills up the float bowls inside the carbs.

You might have to crank 10 or 15 seconds (or more with a flat battery) before the float bowls have enough gas in them. Only THEN will pumping the gas pedal help any.

Getting an old-school engine that's been sitting a while to kick over can take patience, but if it was running OK a few months ago, it will probably start without major repairs.

Here's another photo of where to find a manual fuel pump if you've got one. Yours may look a little different than this one:

I may be moving my visit with the DMV Gods up to the middle of the week (if my insurance info arrives soon and I can set up an appointment with the Titling guy at the DMV) but I have your contact info (thank you) and I'll let you know what my schedule is if you need some additional help.  

I suspect your problem is just an "I've been sitting all winter and now I don't wanna wake up" problem that might be easily corrected with Druid robes and the throwing of Chicken bones and cheap Scotch, but we'll see.  Still no message from the Charlestown guy (those PCA types are SO unreliable....)

Just go put some gas in your carb and start it up. I'll put money on that being your issue!

I agree, Bill.

Yeah, I knew a guy that ran an engine with an open intake manifold(no carb) and a spray bottle of gasoline...A couple squirts and I'll bet it comes to life.

Lfepardo posted:

Dumb Q... may sound elementary.... but does your car have a kill switch under the dash? 

If you have already checked to make sure you carbs are getting gas and  checked you are getting spark... you may want to check your kill switch.

If  you have one, flick it on-off-on a couple times... corrosion from humidity can break the contact, and car wont to start.

the first year I had one of these cars, I actually forgot after a few months of storage about the kill switch.   And it took me three days trying everything under the sun before I flicked it back to the "on" position..

.... could also be your grounds.  Corrosion builds up quickly in some environments,

LOL.  Reminds me of the day in 2007 when I picked up my 1st brand new Speedster from Vintage.

On my way up the Grapevine (hwy 5) I stopped at In and Out burger and parked the car right along the curb directly next to the building (not in a parking slot) so I could keep an eye on it from inside.  It was difficult to eat my burger, due to the SEG on my face, while I watched all the people stopping to drool over my brand new Speedster. 

When I finally did finished my meal and went back outside there were several people standing around it.  I answered their questions, as I jumped in, and told them that I had just picked it up and was on my way back home to Fresno.

I turned the key and, you guessed it, it just cranked, but didn't start.  I'm not sure how many times I turned that key, but it was several minutes and long enough for the crowd to sympathetically walk away and leave me to bask in my embarrassment.

I even called Kirk and left him a frustrated VM before I finally remembered that it had a kill switch and I had flipped it off when I parked.  Flipped it on and my SEG immediately returned.

Shop class in highschools used to start with the basics. It takes three things for any engine to run: fuel, spark, and compression.

When it won’t start, it’s an interruption of one of these 3. Generally after sitting a long time, it’ll be fuel. But here’s the white-trash, hick-town gear-head way to determine what’s up. 

1) Check for spark. Pull a plug wire off. Buy a sparkplug (any plug will work) and push the wire on the loose plug (the one you just bought). Hold the threads against the engine case so it’s getting a good ground. Have somebody crank the engine over. You should see a spark about every two revolutions of the engine.

2) If you have spark, put the plug wire back on. The timing might not be perfect, but it didn’t slip to the point that the engine won’t start. What’s next is fuel. You’ll want to hold the throttle wide open while you crank for 5-10 seconds 3-5 times. If it won’t even try to start, get a spray can of starting fluid (ether). Hold the throttle open with the air-cleaners off and spray about a 2 second long burst in each carb, allowing the throttle to snap shut after you do. Get in the car ASAP, and try to start it just like before (floored, cranking for 5-10 seconds). If it starts on ether but dies after a second or two, your problem is fuel. 

If you have a mechanical problem, you are out of your depth (and are going to need professional help regardless), so getting super-involved regarding what to check (compression wise) is a waste of time.

None of this will fix the problem, but will get you much closer to knowing what is going on.

Given the motorhead capabilities available, I thought that the easiest way to to help Justin out was a Speedstah Guy intervention, but so far, with three emails to Replica/PCA types around the close Boston/Cambridge area I've gotten Bupka for responses.    I'll keep trying but can swing by there later in the week to see what's what.   I have to go to Boston to get my title/registration amended this week and from Quincy, where the RMV Title Office is, to Cambridge isn't all that far so I'll just swing by on the way home.

I honestly don't think it's very dire.  It's just been sitting all winter and doesn't easily wake up, that's all.  Just like me almost every morning.

Gordon: you sir, are the man. 

Naaaah...... Just a crotchety old guy who grew up in Golden Age of Carburetors.  

Of the eighteen different ways to coax a carburetor to work right, I know 15 of them - By hard experience.

Friend had a single carb VW powered MGTD,  wouldn't idle. Removed aircleaner...             "Cliff, rev it up to 2500 RRM" 

I capped the carb throat with my hand until it died,repeated this a few times...that sucked crap out of the idle jet / passage and the engine idled nicely ... Poor mans carb tune up :~)

Been there, done that, but I have to GET there first!

Anyone ever de-carbon a cylinder by dribbling water down one carb throat at a time at high rpm? I have, several times.

Yeah Danny,  I did something like that once, only the Budweiser was in my hand  sooo......     

Isn't that what Kelly unintentionally did at Carlisle in the "Year of the Monsoon"??

Did it en-mass to the Chevy II. Sucked it in through a vacuum port below the carb, and the engine knock—which had begun suddenly after a high-rpm  second-gear jaunt up a steep hill, which inspired some valve-cover-off inspections, a 100-mile flatbed ride home, and an oil-pan-off look at the main bearings—disappeared in a cloud of steam.

ITS ALIVE!!!

You all are the best!  And, I owe at least a beer to each.  8 pumps of the pedal, and a crank with my foot all the way down, and up she woke!  After an assisted idle for 10 minutes, it was like nothing ever happened.  :-)

Started the day with an epic sunrise drive around Cambridge...

Gordon, thanks so much for the offer of a local assist.  Given my level of mechanical expertise, I suspect I'll be asking you to renew that offer some time in the future...  If Druid robes, throwing of Chicken bones, and Scotch are the price for my vehicular neglect, so be it...

And, In and Out Burger sounds like a fantastic destination for a first drive in one of these crazy machines...

Thanks again, everyone!  (Hopefully) Case closed!  

Enjoy your cars, and hope to pass you on the road some time.

Gratefully,

Justin

p.s.  Gordon, if you know local shops that handle these cars let me know.  I'd like to keep them on file.  I found one high end shop in Concord, and a guy way to the West (Tat at Beetle Bug III), who have both worked on the car now.  I struck out with anyone closer than that...

Congrats on the happy ending.

Quick question (or suggestion): Did you treat the gas before the Winter hibernation, did you leave the gas tank full and is it at all possible to keep the car on a battery tender (not charger)? Perhaps not for the latter in a public garage.

Run a can of Sea Foam through a full tank of gas and go on a long drive. Long enough that you need to fill the tank again and start treating your gas with a few ounces of Sea Foam or Star Tron at every fill up.

Yay!

Super!  I know you were pleased, Justin.  Robert's Seafoam tip is a smart thing. Last year I saw my idle starting to go slower and slower and after I gave it a bottle of Seafoam it was, and has stayed right at 900 rpm for idle, which is just where I like it.  I believecarb  jets were cleared which remedied the situation.

And yessir---Gordon is definitely a great "go to" info source!

Justin wrote: “Started the day with an epic sunrise drive around Cambridge...”

Yeah.....   The Longfellow Bridge at Sunrise must be memorable.  Mass General, too!   😉

Mike’s Pastry down at Harvard Sq. would be worth a stop, too. 

You can get seafoam at Walmart or any auto parts store.  A can in the tank and you should be good to go. Try to run your current tank almost empty then fill with fresh gas and treat each new tankfull with Star Tron.  One bottle will last a year.  It’s good stuff. 

Glad it fired up.  I had faith in you!!

We have non ethanol gas available here so that is all I use....I just fill her up , add some Stabil  (sp ?) and that is it...don't do anything with the battery.....starts right up in the spring and runs great....I do store it on a lift so there are no rodent problems... 

Gordon Nichols posted:

Isn't that what Kelly unintentionally did at Carlisle in the "Year of the Monsoon"??

No, Kelly hydro-locked a cylinder which is BAD. Bent connecting rods happen that way......

Cheers Justin, glad you beat it instead of it beating you!

I have no solution just appreciation of such a great community of folks ready and eager to help fellow Speedster owners. In a world that seems to "enjoy" other peoples problems and even mock them, it is refreshing to witness true community involvement and a desire to help without the expectation of anything in return, other than maybe help returned at some future point in time.  Kudos to all those that responded with ideas and offers to help - not to mention the humorous aspects of some of the responses...great positive fun while empathetic and supportive in nature.