Hello everyone,

l’m looking at trying to get a better hood gap and engine lid levelness. Being my car is a CMC generation is this achievable?

I just want to move the hood back a few mils and lower the engine lid so it’s kinda level with the body.

The engine lid sits about 2–3.5mm higher than the body. The hood gap is about 5.66mm near the windshield area. 

 

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Elongate the front hood hinges so the lid can slide back.  When in the correct alignment, maybe add a 3rd hole/bolt to secure position.

On engine lid, I elongated the rear firewall mounting bracket so they could be lowered (easier if no engine in - but still doable).

I bet DrClock has some tricks!

I dunno about drilling the hinges for lightness.  You’re gonna save, what?  The weight of a couple of #2 pencils?  

The engine cover is held up by the hinges at the front, and by the latch pin in the cover at the rear (plus any buttons or weatherstrip that might have been installed between the cover and body). 

Front of the cover can be lowered by turning the hinge firewall side bolt holes into slots, as Wolfgang alluded. Then, when loosely re-assembled, put a cardboard spacer between the cover and body flange to set the height you want, then tighten the bolts at the firewall (just use a pair of vise grips on the engine side of the firewall on the bolt head to hold the bolt while you tighten the nut on the back side).

Back of the cover:  is held up by the pin going into the latch Jaws.   Easiest fix is to slot the latch mounting holes in the bracket holding the latch, then move the latch down via trial-and-error til you get the cover where you want it.

Hood:  If the rear height of the hood looks level, open the hood and see how the hood is attached to the hinges and then, as Wolfgang mentioned, slot the holes in the hinge arms that the hood directly attaches to.  Re-assemble hood to hinge and get the bolts slightly tighter than finger-tight, then see how it looks when closed and adjust it (gentle taps or nudges) back to where you want it, but beware, you’ll probably have to slot where the front latch pin attaches to the hood if you’re moving everything back more than 1/8” so both ends of the hood will line up.  

ALB posted:

@Gordon Nichols wrote- "I dunno about drilling the hinges for lightness.  You’re gonna save, what?  The weight of a couple of #2 pencils?  "

It's all about percentages, baby!

But after enough drilling you might have several cases worth of #2 pencils. Every little bit repeated repeatedly adds up to a lot of bits of little bits. 

Robert M posted:
ALB posted:

@Gordon Nichols wrote- "I dunno about drilling the hinges for lightness.  You’re gonna save, what?  The weight of a couple of #2 pencils?  "

It's all about percentages, baby!

But after enough drilling you might have several cases worth of #2 pencils. Every little bit repeated repeatedly adds up to a lot of bits of little bits. 

You've hit the nail on the head, Robert!

When you start looking at a car with the express purpose of trimming weight, a few obvious things- aluminum instead of steel wheels, thinner glass/replacing with lexan or plexiglass, stripping undercoating, substituting aluminum and/or titanium for steel/cast iron parts, jump out and will result in the loss of large amounts (pounds); after that you have to start looking at ounces, and even grams (28.3 g= 1 oz) on every piece you can touch. How much weight can you save by drilling holes in the ignition key? door handles? door striker plates? the brake and clutch pedals? Gordon's right- not very much individually, but start re-working every part you can get your hands on, add it all up and it's more than you think.

My late (shorter and lighter) handbrake originally weighed 357 grams, the ratchet plate (a bitch to drill, as it's surface hardened like a lot of transaxle parts; be prepared to fork out for carbide drill bits!) weighed 81 g and the pivot pin (which holds everything in place and anchors the assembly to the bracket on the tunnel) weighed 42-  so 480 grams in total. Weights after reworking- 238, 55 and 21= 314- that's a weight reduction of 166 grams (5.86 oz), or 34 %. Every little bit counts!

Not everything you touch will yield such great percentages, but 20% is usually achievable without too much work. And if you can subject 200 pounds of parts to the drill and/or grinder, you'll reduce car weight by upwards of 40 lbs. I think I'm averaging more than 25% weight reduction on all the pieces I've touched, the total at the moment being a little under 30 lbs (I haven't added it up lately so I'm guessing) and there are certainly more pieces to look at.

When Porsche built the '67 911R there was an engineer in charge of each group of parts on the car. One of the main objectives was to build the car as light as possible. The main shell was made of thinner steel, hoods, doors and bumpers were all thin fiberglass, the windshield was made from 1mm thinner glass, the rest of the windows were plexiglass, window winder mechanisms were scrapped in favor of leather straps, the Fuchs wheels were forged from smaller/lighter slugs than the production line wheels, some parts that were steel on the 911S were made of aluminum, and they redesigned, filed, ground and drilled holes in everything else (including the key)! The cars weighed in at 1670 lbs- 500 less than the production line S. Coupled with the aluminum cased, 210 hp type 901/22 engine (30? hp more than the S, which was already substantially more powerful than the base engine), another giant killer was born.

 

At the next Carlisle gathering, Al will lead an early 6 AM and sunset exercises (rain or shine).  Goal of the 4 days will be for each to lose 30#.  2016+ Mazda Miata is one of the lightest cars now available at 2300# - Lotus probably has a lighter model (if you can squeeze in it).  Ha, no spare tire, no jack, and not even a lug wrench. Front fenders, hood, doors, and boot all aluminum (as well as aluminum A-arms and under-chassis cross bracing.)

Image result for yoda exercisingImage result for yoda exercising

The hood hinges can be made to look great though with polishing and a few lightening holes!

Image result for drilled replica speedster hood hinge

 

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When I initially set the hood and deck lids I use a piece of carboard box, that thickness tends to set the " height " correct for when the weather stripping is installed on the hood, as for the deck lid that does not get the weather stripping. Agree that the hinge bolt hole closest to the hinge bracket gets elongated to allow movement to correctly set the hood - deck lid height.

Robert M posted:
DannyP posted:

My Spyder weighs 1500 pounds wet. If I lost 30 pounds, that would trump every hole you've drilled, my friend. Now that's FUNNY!

For 95% of the people out there, especially us middle aged ones, drilling holes will cause faster weight loss than us actually trying to lose weight.

What my Poopiehead friend fails to remember is that when a car loses weight, as opposed to the owner, you don't have to worry about it coming back on the car...

And you are right, @Alan Merklin- those hinges do look great but that's a lot of work for something to be seen only when the hood is up. And the holes should be bigger.

But if the owner loses weight, both engines - the cars and the owner's engine (heart) have to work less hard to propel the "vehicle".  You can tell that exercise and weight loss are still on my resolutions for 2020.  Going to be a busy year --- what with the promise to be driving the Speedster this year!

Al, my hole-drilling friend:

Interestingly, my old Takara road bicycle had a LOT of holes drilled in the components when I still had Campagnolo parts.  When I went to Sun Tour and Dia-Comp parts the holes were fewer, but larger and more artistically carved.  Drilling component parts, however, when well done, can produce a part that is truly beautiful.

Here’s a good article of the bicycle hole-drilling group think in the late 1970’s when my last bike was built and why you see very few holes in road bicycles today.  My current bike (my lightest ever at under 11 pounds) has almost no holes drilled.   Even the brake handles, full of holes on my old Takara, are now carbon fiber, wafer-thin front-to-back on my Trek to reduce air drag, but wide enough to push sideways with a finger to do gear changes.

https://journal.rouleur.cc/the...SUhgoikzI7cEFy3nPPK8

Gordon Nichols posted:

Al, my hole-drilling friend:

Interestingly, my old Takara road bicycle had a LOT of holes drilled in the components when I still had Campagnolo parts.  When I went to Sun Tour and Dia-Comp parts the holes were fewer, but larger and more artistically carved.  Drilling component parts, however, when well done, can produce a part that is truly beautiful.

Here’s a good article of the bicycle hole-drilling group think in the late 1970’s when my last bike was built and why you see very few holes in road bicycles today.  My current bike (my lightest ever at under 11 pounds) has almost no holes drilled.   Even the brake handles, full of holes on my old Takara, are now carbon fiber, wafer-thin front-to-back on my Trek to reduce air drag, but wide enough to push sideways with a finger to do gear changes.

https://journal.rouleur.cc/the...SUhgoikzI7cEFy3nPPK8

Gordon:  I had my Campagnolo Record components drilled and milled in Philly I think, by “Rinzetti Modifications.” Spelling may be wrong. The parts looked just like those on EddyMerck’s bike in the pic!  Way lighter and I never broke any of those parts... You took me back to my youth!

Stan, my wife hit the roof when she found out the cost ($1,875 after a year-end discount because it was a leftover and small size) back in 1980 when we barely had the money for it.  Maybe that's why I kept it for so long and rode it over 60,000 miles!  My Trek Madoné probably cost the same, in current dollars, but weighs less and I caught hell for buying THAT, too!  Currently have almost 10,000 miles on it.

It would make zero sense to drill anything on the new Trek - the brakes are super-light and tucked behind the fork and crank hub, are well out of sight, and major parts of the derailleurs are carbon fiber.  Pretty much everything on this bike was designed with benefit of a computer to have maximum performance at minimum weight.  

And, yes.....  This is probably the last road bike I'll ever buy.  Unless I get hit again (that would clinch it) and/or the frame cracks (nothing yet).    

By the time I had the money to buy anything decent (early '90s), a Record gruppo all by itself was $1500+, without rims, bars, stem, or frame. I bought a Chorus gruppo from a mail-order place in NY for $750, and thought I'd stolen it.

I had a Waterford Reynolds 731 frame built for about $1000 about the time I became a journeyman fitter in '93 or so. I moved the Campy stuff to a Titanium frame built by Lightspeed with Merckx geometry shortly after I went into business in '97. It was double-butted Ti tubing, which was stupid-cool. It was only a couple of years before I bought my first speedster and stopped riding (which was one of the biggest mistakes of my life).

The bike is still one of the coolest things I own. It's my fondest hope to get my fat butt on it again this summer.

I still have my Campy C Record equipped Rosin, made for me in the early 90’s. And, my custom built Albert Eisentraut frame with all Campy Super record converted to titanium spindles and bolts.  It helped that I owned a bike shop for 20+ years. I raced road bikes since I was 15.  Rosin is Columbus tubing, Eisentraut is Reynolds. Both were great bikes and won a bunch of races... waaay back when.

Stan Galat posted:

You guys had money, back in the day. I never climbed above the Campy Chorus level.

Campy? I was lucky to have Suntour. I did have a Mossberg once with Campy Simplex(CHEAP) on it. The Mossberg frame weighed at least as much as one of those old Raleighs that Cory waxes poetic about.......

Paul Mossberg made BIKES?    

My Sunday Morning Riding Group (all auld Pharts and Phart-etts) has a couple of Titanium "Seven" bikes, IIRC, made in Cambridge, Mass.?  Both polished metal and both beautiful.  Both are custom-sized frames (I think all 7's are, but not sure) and one, for Pat, who got new knees last year and is even shorter than me (He comes from the "Hobbit" side of Ireland) rides on 26" wheels.  It looks perfectly proportioned, just tiny. Pretty cool, really.  He keeps telling me I should "downsize, too.

Oh!  And I went to a dinner a few years back in honor of Bernard Hinault for his charity.  Bernard is a 5-time winner of the Tour de France before the Armstrong era.  

Five Time Winner......  

I expected some YUGE! guy with bulging arms and tree-like legs, but no......   Bernard Hinault, five time blah, blah, blah, blah......   Is almost exactly my height and build (read that, "not a big guy").  He signed one of my riding jerseys for me and, I swear to God....   His scribbly written signature is almost identical to my daughter's!

The old bikes, those built before, say, 1995 or so, were rolling art.  Especially some of the more flamboyant makes like Colnago, but even my Takara has hand-cut lugs at the frame intersections and lots of cut-outs in different parts (ALB would love them) that make the bike interesting and artwork.  Even my old aluminum handlebars have engravings on them, the lower fork and rear drop-outs are both chromed and the rear has adjustable axle snubs to adjust for the derailleur and to keep the wheel straight.  You don't see that stuff anymore.  Now, frame members are welded (or glued, if they're carbon fiber) directly into each other with out lugs and specific derailleur or brake components are specified or they might not fit.  I also have a chart of precise torque settings for anything on the bike to keep from over-stressing the carbon fiber parts.   

Mossberg as in the same company that makes shotguns. They briefly made bicycles in the early 70s.

And having thought about it for a while, the frame was heavy steel and STIFF. I gave it to my sister, it had Suntour stuff on it.

The cheap Campy stuff was on a Peugeot bicycle I picked up for $50 a couple years later(I was still in HS) and I rode the crap out of it. Trued the wheels, new tires, cables, and handlebar tape. Looked brandy-new and worked like new when I was done.

My current Trek carbon is a really stiff bike, either powering uphill or hung out on a bumpy curve.  It does not perceptively flex (at least I can't feel it).

Until..........    If you ride it over a set of more-or-less perpendicular train tracks and expect it to rattle your teeth out, it is as soft as a marshmallow.  THAT really surprised me.  Computer designed frame, taking advantage of the "grain" of carbon fiber for both strength and suppleness.  I didn't believe it til I rode one.  Makes a Cannondale Aluminum I rode for a week once on a trip feel downright dead by comparison, and Cannondales are really nice bikes.

Stan wrote:  "The bike is still one of the coolest things I own. It's my fondest hope to get my fat butt on it again this summer."

Me, too, Stan.  I got a used Ridley Fenix carbon fibre bike a couple of years ago, and got back to enjoying riding.  It's tough, though, living in a climate where at least five months are too cold, sleety, snowy, and downright crappy to get the bike out.

But, come the first nice day of Spring, I'll be out there, trying to duplicate what I used to be able to do fifty years ago. 

Was I really that slim and fit...?

bob kent state

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I will bet the Peugeot had a Stronglight cotterless crank, Mafac brakes, Simplex (black plastic!) derailleurs and Mavic rims if it was one of their racing bikes.  They sponsored my team prior to Cannondale and, provided us with thier top of the line bikes at the time, the PX-10 model with Reynolds tubing and the above equipment.... I converted mine to all campy groupo with Cinelli bars and stem. Keep in mind, this was about 1979 - 1985. 

   I also had a full chrome plated Holdsworth from England that was a really nice reynolds frame with the most incredibly fancy lugs (at the tubing joints) that I ever saw. I wish I had pics of it! The workmanship in the old frames was amazing.

   Also, the Reynolds tubing is British steel. Not aluminum as we might assume here on this side of the pond. If the Reynolds 531 label was at a diagonal, it meant the tubing was double butted, or thicker at the joints where the stress was magnified during sprinting or climbing. 531, straight across meant the tubing was the same thickness throughout. 

   The French, English and Italian bikes all had their own threading for the bottom bracket and headsets.  It kept things interesting when someone would want to switch equip from one bike to another! I had the full Campy tool box that was many thousands of bucks with precision taps and dies wand tool guides to properly fit their components.  Customers would come in from all over Ohio, PA, Canada an NY to get their frames alligned, tapped, repaired etc.  We did brazing and later started repaints too! 

  I had the first Cannondale dealership in NY State and sold a bunch of them.  Their first bike on the market was about 3K back then, a 15 speed touring bike that had a wheelbase nearly as long as our Speedsters! LOL 

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