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Anthony posted:

Just to add to ALB comment on winter project. I have 3 friends and customers that I recommended to buy it in stages. Send berg a deposit. They average 2-3 months before they complete the kit. One must decide on what mainshaft gear combo and ring and pinion. Then your third and fourth gears, shifter, berg mount, core trans, axles, diff? And so on. Once your at the point of the kit being ready your trans builder will be needing a few weeks. A year goes by and enjoying that extra gear.

That's what Anthony suggested I do, a pseudo 12 step program.   I'm at the 'decide which 3rd / 4th gear' step. I admit that I jumped a head a few steps and I have my mid mount ordered and it will arrive with the 5 speed kit. The only parts I have left to buy are the 3 & 4 new gear sets, the 10 tooth spiders, and axle end gears. I'm not sure what I'll do about the axles. Maybe stock? Maybe used? Maybe Anthony's race axles? 

Can't wait!

Ted

Last edited by TRP

Unless you're developing enough power (150-160 minimum) AND have enough traction (slicks and suspension specifically set up to drag race, which is contrary to what we do with our cars) to lift the front wheels I wouldn't worry too much about breaking stock axles. The important thing when you take axles off a car is to keep them on their respective sides. 15 tooth end gears go with 10 tooth spiders, and 17 tooth end gears go with 11 tooth spiders, and the superdiff housings are machined slightly different for each. You were talking about using a different trans builder this time around- given your reasons, I'd probably be doing the same. It's one thing to be loyal to the guys who take care of you, but if they're not, then.... Your canucklehead buddy Al.

Thanks!

I spent yesterday trying to flare the stainless steel fuel lines. Man, that's impossible. Flaring Stainless is grounds for sainthood. I need to buy a better a better tool. The die would push the stainless out of the jig and not flare the end. I decided to hold off on the stainless hard lines. I'll put them in when I install the 5 speed.

At this point the 2054 motor is back in the car. All hooked up and ready to fire. I went to key the starter and the battery just doesn't have the juice to spin er up. It had been giving me warning signs that it was tired. On cold mornings it would barely spin the 1915. A blip of gas would usually fire it to life before it lost all juice. I could have jumped it last night but I wasn't in a rush. I cranked it a few times to spread the oil around. I ordered a new battery on Amazon. It should be here today.

The SyncLink is on the carbs. I need to run the throttle cable to the front and get that all set up. Hooking that up will help with starting I'm sure.

One step at a time...

 

You can do what you'd like, but there isn't any reason I can think of to use SS lines over Al or Cu. I've heard all the arguments-- but SS is hard to bend, hard to flare, and hard to work with.

Considering the fuel lines in most of these cars are brittle old rubber with rotten plastic fuel filters hanging above sparky distributors, I think any hard-line is probably an upgrade/overkill.

I'm as insane as the next guy. All my hard-pipe is either Al or Cu.

Okay! We have a runner! I pulled the synclink and installed the hex bar linkage. I wanted to minimize changes so I could isolate any potential issues if they came up.  The motor starts and runs.  I gave synching the carbs a shot.  I think I got it mostly correct. I'm going to go back this week and try to double check the mixture settings. I'm concerned because I started with the mixture with one full turn out. I had to turn them out to get it to run better, not in like the documentation suggests.  I'm going to check the final settings to make sure I understand where the needles ended up.

Thanks,

Ted

44 IDF with .60 idle jets. Need to pull one of the mains to get a number off those. Sounds like I'm in the ballpark. One frustrating item is that this distributor doesn't have a mark on the distributor body for TDC on number 1.  There is a sharpie mark on the outside, but that Mark is a 1/4" wide.  I'm sort of estimating the timing here. 

 

Thanks! That makes sense as to why it wasn't as precise as I had expected it to be.

So yeah, the car runs strong. It's up on jack stands right now. I need to get under it and adjust the clutch and run the throttle cable for the accelerator pedal.  If everything goes as planned, I could have it back on the road this week... just in time for some rain. 

I appreciate all the pointers!

Ted

Two years ago today I took delivery of my speedster. Hardly seems like it's been a year. The California weather this winter has made it difficult to get out and enjoy the car. I have literally put 0 miles on the new motor.  It's funny how the car looks pretty similar to how I bought it even though I've spend countless hours on it.

My modifications have slowed down considerably the second year. Looking back, I sure didn't do a whole lot to the car. I think I did the 1915, the trans, the head lights, and the Setrab, and the wheels early in 2016.  Recently I've replaced the Brazilian gauges with original VDO units. I'm on the fence about getting a paint job and new interior. Considering going with a much lighter disc set up. The five speed is looming out there in the distance. It'll happen, just a matter of waiting for the pieces to literally come together.  

I finally have the 2054 running. The California weather hasn't allowed me to actually drive it yet. I installed a new 5800rpm rev limiter, cap, and coil.  I static timed the motor to 10' BTDC. I did my best to adjust to best lean idle. The IDFs really seemed to quit being so damn cranky once I put the synclink on. Before they would pop and backfire when I applied the gas.  

Looking forward to driving the car more this year. 

 

 

Last edited by TRP

Ted:

  Is your rev limiter adjustable ?

In reading Terry Nuckles book "Peddle To The Mental," "Story of a Crazed Street Racer", (Circa 1966)...    it might be wise to set it between  62-6400 your engine should be able to handle that.

Brecause after the break in of 500 miles with 30wt Brad Penn Oil, your going to romp on it and find yourself at 5800 quickly,  and you dont want to impede yourself with the rev limiter kicking in as you TRY and catch me on the 1   

Tebs    as see on tv 1

 ps.....   way to go on your car man!!  Cant wait to see you both this year   should be fun as always ..

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Last edited by Teby S


I don't know, Mr Tebs, about setting a rev limiter to what the redline is guessed to be.

If you think about it, all engines have rev limiters - sometimes it's the rods, sometimes the main bearings, sometimes the heads, sometimes the pistons. If you run it at the redline long enough, sooner or later something will do a great job of limiting all those fun-loving revs.

An extra add-on, after-the-build, just-in-case kind of rev limiter is supposed to be a less expensive way of doing the same thing. It's an especially good idea if the driver is young, fun-loving, and half-drunk on the sweet ambrosia that is early spring in California.

Or maybe you want Ted's little motor to go boom before he catches you on the 1?

 

*sigh*

I remember when I used to have a car I could get in and drive.

The weather cleared up yesterday so i finally had a chance to pull the car out of the garage and take it for a spin. The second I pushed in the clutch I new I had a problem. The clutch pedal has a good amount of resistance (I'm assuming that's the Kennedy pressure plate), Depressing the clutch pedal is met with a whistle or howl. If I press the pedal in all the way I get what sounds like metal on metal (assuming the TO bearing is hitting the trans main shaft?)  The noise goes away once I let out the clutch the noise goes away. I assume it's a throw-out bearing issue but I'm perplexed because it was fine with the 1915.  Someone else suggested it could be an issue with the bearing in the gland nut.

Seems a shame to have to pull the exhaust and one of the carbs to pull the motor out.  It is what it is. 

Hey longfella - you want to sell me back the 1600 with the Kadrons? Simpler times. 

Ted

 

I was just thinking that when I came back here to see your reply. I'll need to look at the back of the old 1915 and see what the pressure plate looked like. I don't know if I have a photo of the new motor & it's pressure plate.  I bet that's it. 

Old pressure plate:

Image result for Pressure Plate VW Early

I bet the newer one looks like this:

Image result for VW Kennedy Stage one pressure plate

No centering collar...

Silly Ted...

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Last edited by TRP
art posted:

Ted;

My apologies for barging in on your 2054cc  thread.

Your 1915cc, what were the pluses versus  your 1600cc and minuses?

(I frankly missed the step from 1915 to 2054)

Thanks,

Art

For a bench mark I have a 1641cc, DP, twin Solex/Kadron 40's. 

 

Hey Art!

The 1600 i had was old and tired. Dual Kadrons, SVDA and A1 sidewinder. Maaayby 60hp.  The 1915 ran the same carbs, distributor, and exhaust . I'd guess... Mayby 85/90hp? It ran good. Ballanced crank, rods, and pistons. It would rev to 5,500/6k pretty quickly. Fun motor. Ran warm in stop and go traffic so I put the setrab on it. Had an annoying oil drip. 

Both motors were dead on reliable. You can tune Kadrons in your sleep.

Why did I change motors 3 times in two years? Torque is one hell of a drug. 

Ted:   My Friend ........   The one great thing about this thread is that you have consistently chronicled your journey with the new enhancements being done to your car. Might I add,  at you own doing, which I find admirable...   

Can I offer this advice?     When doing these car projects I have learned that its better to replace it with "new" than keep the existing..  IE: NEW bolts, washers, throw out bearing etc.  This often resolves future issues that may occur. When I was in the midst of my super secret engine build and replacement I didn't use any existing hardware..  I just felt better knowing that everything is new and solid. 

so!!    Again  Great job keeping this blog alive with all your endeavors, I've enjoyed a lot of the comments and advice and I'm totally looking forward to see her on the road..  I may come visit ahead of the June run as I want to put more break in miles on miss Jill..

Thursday Grab a Guinness on me!! 

Tebs

TRP posted:

I was just thinking that when I came back here to see your reply. I'll need to look at the back of the old 1915 and see what the pressure plate looked like. I don't know if I have a photo of the new motor & it's pressure plate.  I bet that's it. 

Old pressure plate:

Image result for Pressure Plate VW Early

I bet the newer one looks like this:

Image result for VW Kennedy Stage one pressure plate

No centering collar...

Silly Ted...

The 1600cc had the top pressure top. The old original looking one. The 1915cc has the bottom pressure plate.

I thought the T/O was based not the transmission you have and not the pressure plate??

Longfellow

I bet if you look closely at the 1915 pressure plate you will notice a metal collar around the center fingers on the pressure plate.

The transmission determines which throw out bearing you use. In turn, the throw out bearing determines which pressure plate you use. The later style throw out bearing does not use the center collar. You can't use the early style throw out bearing with the later style pressure plate (specifically ones without the centering collar).

With the early style throw out bearing the center collar ties the fingers together. Without the center collar the early throw out bearing skids along the open fingers and engages the pressure plate erratically.

Hope that makes sense. I rambled.

 

I put another 6 miles on the car today. I pulled the motor and removed the clutch disk. 5 of the 6 springs on the clutch disk were broken. Some of the springs were broken in multiple places. 

I put the centering ring on the pressure plate. Installed a new clutch disc, throw out bearing, and clips. Car runs strong. The clutch chatter is gone. Glad to have it on the road again.

What would cause those springs to break like that?

Last edited by TRP
TRP posted:

 

...What would cause those springs to break like that?...

 

Ted, a wise man once advised me not to put in a clutch disc with springs because it's very hard to find one anymore whose springs are not made in the People's Republic of Cheesy Car Parts.

Apparently, those springs are made from a very rare alloy that is 10 per cent high-carbon steel, 40 per cent sawdust, and 50 per cent lychee nuts.

The wise man said, "If thy clutch would chatter, avoid the valley of the springs and follow the Kush Lock path to eternal happiness."

And you know this wise man, Ted. He lives in Auburn, California.

 

A warped flywheel can cause driven clutch disc springs to fail.  It's always a good idea to surface the flywheel on a clutch job.  Long-term slippage can also heat the springs, making them brittle and easier to break.  If your flywheel is bad, you'll know before long, launching or not (just kidding about the launch).  In my case, cockpit problems were the culprit, but I was a mere callow youth at the time.   

aircooled posted:

AL....Yeah.......I'd like to get a Five Speed. After following all the dialog  on here I can see how close you can get to all of our "G-Spots"!!  Maybe later when I change "preferences" on what gets me excited while out cruising, I'll move "up a notch"

Winternationals are still fun. I was just looking at a photo of the Trophy Queen of the "66" Event. She was all really cute and all that but what caught my eye in this photo was how LARGE the TV camera was that was recording for the local news stations. In this case it was ABC or CBS. Now it's not a 1/4 mile race. Not 1320 feet but 1000 feet for safety reasons. Still spectacular watch though.

Cheers to you and all...............Bruce

You never posted the pic of the trophy queen...

ALB posted:
aircooled posted:

AL....Yeah.......I'd like to get a Five Speed. After following all the dialog  on here I can see how close you can get to all of our "G-Spots"!!  Maybe later when I change "preferences" on what gets me excited while out cruising, I'll move "up a notch"

Winternationals are still fun. I was just looking at a photo of the Trophy Queen of the "66" Event. She was all really cute and all that but what caught my eye in this photo was how LARGE the TV camera was that was recording for the local news stations. In this case it was ABC or CBS. Now it's not a 1/4 mile race. Not 1320 feet but 1000 feet for safety reasons. Still spectacular watch though.

Cheers to you and all...............Bruce

You never posted the pic of the trophy queen...

That would have most likely been Miss Linda Vaughn, the undisputed queen of the hot rodding world:

linda-vaughn-life-and-death-steve-bovan-hrdp-15000-bov-03

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Anthony posted:

FYI.   No matter who you order it from, they still have to get it from berg.

no body stocks the kits. I am still waiting on one for a customer......

Rancho has one in stock right now. If I cut my losses at this point, I'd be out the cost of the main shaft, the R&P, the spider gears and end gears I ordered from Anthony.  I have a handful of other parts I picked up (donor trans, rhino case, two heavy duty side plates, shift fork, etc.)  but at this point I'm furious that they have strung me along this long. 

Every 30 days since I sent them my parts I've called Tim. Each month he's told me something else was holding up the process. First it was the CNC of the nose cones. Everything else was on track. Then it's something else. Then it's the hardened shift selector rods.

There are at least 8 others in this same boat. I'm going to post on The Samba and see who else is tired of being strung along.

 

Since Dee (Gene's widow) has taken over the reigns after Gene died, the business model GBE subscribes to has been pretty hard to understand. They're out of stock for months, even years at a time of some of their biggest sellers (one eg.- deep sumps), when they do make a manufacturing run they sell out pretty quickly, and then they're out of stock for eons again. I (and a host of others out here in VW land) don't get it.

The 5 speeds are a rather unique situation because as well as their initial investment for having the end cones and intermediate (gear) sections cast and then machined, there's mods to the customers' parts as well, and to be economical they do them in batches (of 10 I believe). I know it's a pain in the @ss, Ted, but hang in there. You have to remember that they're doing something no one else does. It's worth it in the end. Al

ps- Did you start with a donor trans or use parts from the trans in the car? Can you and Anthony cobble something together so you can drive the car while you're waiting? I do understand the frustration, especially if the car is down.

Last edited by ALB

I picked up a 3.88 R&P and main shaft from the Samba. I then picked up a donor trans off of Craigslist for 100.00. I still have a trans in my car. It's one that Ken Porter built for me a little over a year and a half ago.  Rancho has a complete 5 speed trans right now.  

I just hate to be led on. Nothing is worse to me than when someone can't be honest about a delivery date. 

Do any of you know anything about the subarugears conversion?

 

Last edited by TRP

I just spoke with Tim. He said the shafts are at the guy who's doing the 'hard chrome' work (?)  He said it should be 'about a week'. Let's say I get the parts by the end of July. Ken Porter is usually backed up 8 to 12 weeks. That puts us out to... November.  If I get the spider and end gears from Anthony I can take it to Teby's guy - might get it done in this calendar year.  

Unless I buy one outright - I don't see this thing being built and installed in this driving season. At this rate it will be a year before I get it built and installed.  

Let this be a lesson to anyone who's considering buying vs building.

I can still cut my losses and get one from Wright: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/cla...etail.php?id=1588600 

 

Last edited by TRP

Ohhh... the funny man in the brown truck stopped by today. 

He lost one of the two boxes he was supposed to deliver. He'll be back tomorrow.  But he left me with these:

IMAG1353

I'm going to have to unpack and see how they look.  I'll apologize right now to Teby and Longfella. You're going to want a set of these.

Ted

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Okay! So let's see what we're working with here:

unpack_trp_1unpack_trp_2unpack_trp_3

Packed very well. Good looking quality. No blemishes to speak of. Impressed. 

What are they replacing?

before_trp_motor

Pretty good set of CB Aluminum/KN air cleaners which came with the cross bar linkage.  I removed all that when I installed the sync link.  The plan is to pull those air cleaners and sell the entire hex bar / air cleaner set up.

How hard can it be to install these things?

Step 1) Remove the thumb screws and pull off the rubber backed washers and the air cleaner tops and filters.

started_with_1

Step 2) Locate and remove the 4 nuts / washers that hold on the velocity stacks.  Stuff some paper towels down the throats to keep the gunks and fiddly bits out.
started_with_2

Step 3) Remove the velocity stacks and set them aside. 
started_with_3

Step 4) Remove the lower air cleaner base plate.  Might need to give it a little jiggly tug. Try not to damage the gasket beneath the base. Be careful of the jets and jet doctors. Don't drop any fiddly bits down the carbs.

started_with_4

Step 5) So far so good! No tears. Oh, man... now would be a good time to check your fuel lines. Take a few minutes to check the fuel line connections.

started_with_5

Step 6) Line up your base plates (new and old) and transfer the holes for your jet doctors. You do have them already installed don't you? If you have your old template, that'd be a better option here. Once you've transferred the locations, drill 'em out! Clean the base plates off of all metal shavings and debris before going anywhere near the carbs. Don't skip this step.

started_with_6

Step 7) Reinstall the new parts in the opposite order of what you took off. You may have to notch the velocity stacks to allow room for the funky standoff bits.  I will post pictures of that modification later.

Step 8) Step back and enjoy the view.

after_trp_motorend_result_1end_result_2

Now I need to buy my old 356 oil filter housing back from Longfella so I can further dress up my motor! These new air filter housings really look legit!  The metal mesh is backed with some basic 'off road' foam. I also have a new set of K/N filters to put in the air cleaner bodies. 

For those who are wondering about the size. They are the exact same size air cleaner as the aluminum ones which were on there before. The K&N filter cartage is literally the same unit.  These new ones look smaller because the aluminum base and top are notably thicker than the new ones. (cast vs stamped). 

Thanks for letting me share,
Ted

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Last edited by TRP
TRP posted:

Now I need to buy my old 356 oil filter housing back from Longfella so I can further dress up my motor!

I owe you considering how seamless it was to get the two engines several months ago. As of now, the 356 oil filter housing is nicely wrapped and stowed away. I thought I had an idea of what I "would like" for an engine, but it keeps changing and I would rather NOT let parts sit around if someone can use them. I'll be out of town for a couple of weeks, but I'll pack it up and ship it your way when I get back

You do have a nice little empty spot to attach it to your fan shroud

Last edited by *LongFella
Frank C. posted:

Plug the part number on his shipping box into Google and you'll see..........but remember you can't put a value on such beauty.

Wow! At first I thought is was reasonable - $127.00. Then I realized that's for one! I guess if you're going for the original look it's the price you pay for playing. They are nice looking.

*LongFella posted:
TRP posted:

Now I need to buy my old 356 oil filter housing back from Longfella so I can further dress up my motor!

I owe you considering how seamless it was to get the two engines several months ago. As of now, the 356 oil filter housing is nicely wrapped and stowed away. I thought I had an idea of what I "would like" for an engine, but it keeps changing and I would rather NOT let parts sit around if someone can use them. I'll be out of town for a couple of weeks, but I'll pack it up and ship it your way when I get back

You do have a nice little empty spot to attach it to your fan shroud

:thumbs-up: Please let me know what I owe you for the oil filter and bracket.

TRP posted:
*LongFella posted:
TRP posted:

Now I need to buy my old 356 oil filter housing back from Longfella so I can further dress up my motor!

I owe you considering how seamless it was to get the two engines several months ago. As of now, the 356 oil filter housing is nicely wrapped and stowed away. I thought I had an idea of what I "would like" for an engine, but it keeps changing and I would rather NOT let parts sit around if someone can use them. I'll be out of town for a couple of weeks, but I'll pack it up and ship it your way when I get back

You do have a nice little empty spot to attach it to your fan shroud

:thumbs-up: Please let me know what I owe you for the oil filter and bracket.

You don't owe me anything. I'll try and get it packed up tonight and sent your way tomorrow. If I can't, it will be a few weeks and sent when I return...

*LongFella posted:
TRP posted:
*LongFella posted:
TRP posted:

Now I need to buy my old 356 oil filter housing back from Longfella so I can further dress up my motor!

I owe you considering how seamless it was to get the two engines several months ago. As of now, the 356 oil filter housing is nicely wrapped and stowed away. I thought I had an idea of what I "would like" for an engine, but it keeps changing and I would rather NOT let parts sit around if someone can use them. I'll be out of town for a couple of weeks, but I'll pack it up and ship it your way when I get back

You do have a nice little empty spot to attach it to your fan shroud

:thumbs-up: Please let me know what I owe you for the oil filter and bracket.

You don't owe me anything. I'll try and get it packed up tonight and sent your way tomorrow. If I can't, it will be a few weeks and sent when I return...

Ah.. take your time. There is no rush.

*LongFella posted:

Look what I found

Text me your address and I'll have it in the mail tomorrow

Whoa! Hello my old friend!  Thanks!

The fun guy in the big brown truck brought me my new Vintage Speed 5 speed shifter! It's a spittin image of the 4 speed I currently have installed in the car today. Anthony suggested asking Vintage Speed if they would upgrade my existing shifter to a Berg 5.  They said no problem and offered to do it for a nominal cost: $60.00 plus 30.00 shipping. If you add in another $20.00 for a shift knob it'd be about $110.00.  A pretty good price really. The turn around time was about 3 weeks.

Because I was ordering the air cleaners already I sprung for the $190.00 a picked up a brand new one already converted to 5 speed.  I'll simply sell the 4 speed version I already have.  (I'm getting quite a pile of used parts over here... starting to look like Troy/Alan's shop!)

IMAG1368

I also received an upgraded clutch pedal shaft. My clutch shaft has nearly 40 years on it. The clutch cable hoop end was starting to get hung up in the hook. Creating a funky 'click' when I pushed the pedal in. This part gets rid of the hook and replaces it with a hardened steel shaft and bearing / bushing for the clutch hoop to ride in. No more hook. No more hoping the clutch cable doesn't fall off when you release pressure on the cable! 

IMAG1369

Made by Classic Bug parts. The same folks who brought us the throttle pedal upgrade I spoke of a while back.IMAG1370

Fun stuff!

Ted

 

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Last edited by TRP

Figured out the clutch issue. Pulled the clutch cable. Naturally it's fine. The clutch arm is cracked right at the outer end of the clutch hook shaft and the clutch tube broke free at the front mount. I also found that good old Al cut a 4x6" access hole in the passenger side of the tunnel.  That was bitter sweet.

I'll take the arm to get welded tomorrow. I will need to figure out what to do about the clutch tube.  I can't imagine I'll find a lot of people willing to try welding that sucker back on.

At least now I know what the clicking noise was. Must be something about the way I drive. I broke the pedal on my 71 Ghia in the exact same spot thirty years ago.

 

Last edited by TRP

Okay -- the parts are all in for the 5 speed. Now I need to make a decision on the gearing. 

The first big question is:
Do I go with a Weddle Minshaft Or stick with the newly minted one from Berg? I've read a lot of people say they don't understand why people build a 5k box and cheap out on the main shaft. Is using a Berg shaft really being cheap? Is it really a weak link? The Weddle shaft and new 1st and 2nd adds another bunch of cash to the cost. I'd still need 3rd and 4th regardless. 

Depending on the shaft I'm at a loss of what gearing to use.  Tires: 185/65/r15

Weddle: (3.75/2.25/?/?/89)

Berg: (3.80/2.06/?/?/89)

Driving: I typically spend 50% of the time on the freeway driving to or from the office. The other time I could be blasting around the curvy back roads of the bay area. Driving roads like we see on our SLO outings. I have no desire for a big top end. keeping up with freeway traffic (75/80) is a must. Acceleration is more important than top speed.  I would say, I can be hard on accelerations and may dump the clutch and roast 'em from time to time.

I know Stan said he wished he stuck with the stock mainshaft. Others say go with a complete weddle stack. 

I'm just confused (again)

Terry - what do you run again?

Thanks,
Ted

Last edited by TRP

Ted, the berg shaft is FINE for your application. the weddle is only available in a 375 first gear. if you want to waste the money on that i will give you 50.00 for the berg one you have. I  thought you have a 3.78 first with a 2.06 second. and the third and fourth should be a 1.48 and 1.14 with either the .82 or .89 depending on tire size. don't overthink it. what you got will be fine.

If you're constantly driving it like a street racer and acceleration from a stand still is important, then you'll really like the Weddle 3.75/2.25

I could go on (and on and on) about the benefits about each mainshaft, but the question is- what did you send to Berg's? The mainshaft is one of the major pieces (the other being the pinion shaft) that causes the months long hold up, so you should have a modified mainshaft in your posession- correct? If you change mainshafts at this point you'll be waiting for months again. 

I believe Terry runs 3.78/2.06/1.48/1.18/0.89 in his 5 speed. He talked about the shorter 3-4 shift being more fun when canyon carving, and not caring about the slightly longer 4-5 spacing. I had suggested (a few pages back) 3.78 (or 3.80- whatever you sent Berg)/2.06/1.48/1.12/0.89, which isn't that much different; either will be a pile of fun, as you can see below.

http://calc.teammfactory.com/i...26+2&trannytype=

You talked about being able to do 75-80 on the freeway, and the only criticism of both gearing examples above is that 3500 in 5th happens at about 74 mph, so if this is one of the non-negotiable parameters, then you need a .82 5th gear which will allow 80 at 3500rpm. A couple different ways to go- in the first example,

http://calc.teammfactory.com/i...26+2&trannytype=

the recovery rpm for each gear gets higher (as it should) a little more evenly. Otoh, the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts in example 2 are again quite short (I've kept 1.48 in 3rd and 1.12 in 4th so on the street it will be a blast!), but now the 4-5 split isn't quite as tight, although the recovery rpm is still almost 200 higher than stock 3-4 gears. I don't think the 2 are so different that (no matter which you pick) you'll wonder what the other is like.

Given the specified highway speed, I don't think you should consider the 3.75/2.25 mainshaft set- it spaces 3, 4 and 5 out too much. I have more to say- check your pm box. Al

PS- This is what your mainshaft will look like- (yours will just be a little longer)- 

mainshaft and gears- late 3.78

 

Attachments

Images (1)
  • mainshaft and gears- late 3.78
Last edited by ALB
TRP posted:

 

I know Stan said he wished he stuck with the stock mainshaft. Others say go with a complete weddle stack. 

Al is always going to advocate for the drag-race gearing, because he can't help himself.

I've alway thought even the stock first gear was tall to the point of uselessness (unless a guy is going with a 3.44 R/P, and then it's pretty hard to beat). With the 3.44, it'll provide more than enough "snap" to dump it and roast 'em, but not so much that you end up like me with a very, very long 1st (almost like starting out in 2nd). The main-stack I've got goes pretty far in the other direction (longer, not shorter), and was fine with a 3.88 R/P, but it's too far for a 3.44.

I'd never, under any circumstances, get a taller first gear-- unless I was a drag racer. It's just not what these cars were made to be.

 

Ted, a wise man once said,

A Wise Man said:

Ted, the berg shaft is FINE for your application... don't overthink it...what you got will be fine...

Remember that the main reason you're spending big bucks on five speeds is to fill the wide gap between third and fourth with two much smaller gaps. This immediately improves the quality of life and makes you a happier person. (Right away, you'll notice the difference in how small children and dogs respond to you.)

But if you then swap in a .82 for the .89, you're widening up one of those expensively obtained gaps again - making it almost as wide as your current gap between third and fourth. So yeah, the .82 will drop your revs at 80 from 3750 to 3450, but keep in mind, there's a price to pay.

The other 'price' is that when you come to a hill on the freeway, you'll have to downshift a lot sooner than you would with the .89. And now the gear you're downshifting into isn't the slight drop it would have been with the .89.

Like a lot of other things in life, there's no free ride with gearing. What you gain here, you always give up somewhere else.

I really don't like driving this car on the freeway. I tend to seek out smaller roads and take another car if I know I'm going to be on the freeway a lot. I can do 75-80 in the Speedster when I want to (or even 85-90 in a pinch), but I tend to settle down to 70 to cruise - and with the .89, that comes in at a comfortable 3250.

If you haven't already, play around with this interactive gearing mapper. Study it a while, and it will answer almost any question you might have - and probably better than any of us is able to with long-winded explanations like this.

 

"Al is always going to advocate for the drag-race gearing, because he can't help himself."

Thanks for the laugh, Stan! If I was strictly a drag race advocate I'd be telling anyone with a 1915 or smaller to use a 4.375 ring & pinion with close ratio gears; it'll give the best acceleration off the line (highway speeds will suck big time, but that's the price you pay with a 4 speed). Back on topic- Ted has a stock (3.78 or 3.80 with 2.06 2nd; doesn't matter which) mainshaft which, along with a 3.88 r&p, will serve well for street gears. This combination (in a 5 speed) will give a car that's still pretty snappy on the street (which he's said he doesn't want to lose) and have the highway speeds he's looking for as well. So yeah, it's what I (and others) have suggested, as it's the most economical way of doing it.

If I was setting up a 5 speed strictly for acceleration with a 2 liter (or larger) I would probably suggest a 4.125 r&p with 3.78/2.25 2nd (out of the beetle semi-automatic trans and grafted on to the 4 speed mainshaft in place of 2nd)/1.58 3rd/1.21 4th (or maybe 1.26 or even 1.31, depending on the power and rpm's it's made at) and probably .89 for 5th.

Yeah, it's possible to go longer (or taller, whichever you want to call it) with 1st gear, but you and I both know that's a fair chunk of change (1,000 or $1100) and then he'd have to have it lengthened (more $$$), and Ted's patience has already been more than tested with the resulting wait. Also, living in a hilly area, I don't know about a 1st gear much longer than the 3.88/3.78 combo. I'm not saying it can't be done; it just could be a little awkward (at certain traffic lights, stop signs and into a couple of friends' driveways- Vancouver is not flat!).

I can see where (depending on your driving style, power level of the car and locale) running a longer 1st with a 3.88 r&p would be warranted; you get a close ratio 2nd out of the deal, can tighten up the distances between the remaining gears and still get decent highway speeds out of the car. It would be a lot of fun.

Ted- using the VW mainshaft isn't cheaping out; it's the right gearing and strong enough for your application.  

Lively conversation and excellent replies!

I think at this point I'll keep the 3.88 berg with the 3.78.  I can take the money I save and get a set of Kevin's coolstop front brakes.

With that decision behind me,  I"m down to one of these two gear sets:

3.78/2.06/1.48/1.18/0.89 

3.78/2.06/1.48/1.14/0.89 

On paper they are nearly only different by 3mph in 4th. The 1.14 makes up the gap between 4th and 5th a bit. 

Al - I saw the PM, but at this point I think this sentence rang true:

"...(no matter which you pick) you'll wonder what the other is like."

I think that's the real issue. Unless you've driven a bunch, you will always wonder what the different set would have been like. At this point I'm just going to pick one.  

Do I just call up Rancho and order the gears? Anything else?  (hubs, sliders, mwchoozits, gubbons?) - I'd call Weddle but they didn't seem to have the 1.48 or 1.18/1.14 third and 4th.

Thank you so much for the info! 

 

Last edited by TRP
ALB posted:

"Al is always going to advocate for the drag-race gearing, because he can't help himself."

Thanks for the laugh, Stan! If I was strictly a drag race advocate I'd be telling anyone with a 1915 or smaller to use a 4.375 ring & pinion with close ratio gears; it'll give the best acceleration off the line (highway speeds will suck big time, but that's the price you pay with a 4 speed).

Glad to help, Al.

I'll always look to you as the definition expert in gearing. You know that.

I was just poking for a chuckle (you old drag-racing, Cal-look, street bad-boy, you). 

Don't worry about me, Stan; it was taken in kind. I always enjoy your take on things, and should we one day meet I'll gladly buy the first 6 pack...

Ted, the Coolstop front brakes sound like a wicked addition!  And I said "I don't think the 2 are so different that (no matter which you pick) you'll wonder what the other is like". You're going to be so busy driving, ripping through gears with an even bigger SEG that what the other would have been like isn't going to matter! They're close enough that unless someone told you they were different you wouldn't give it a 2nd thought. As for what you need and ordering gears (and what's available)- have you decided who's going to build it?

Ted please take a look at this setup - 3.44 R&P 1st 3.44, 2nd 2.17, 3rd 1.48, 4th 1.09, 5th .89

The rpm drops are correct and the spacing is as good as it gets for a 5 sp 2 liter plus size engine. Stick with the 3.44 ring and pinion - don't cheap it out at this point.

Please please please get rid of that 3.78 1st! It is obsolete with a larger engine.

Use this to get a visual of your shifts. You can play it out in your head:

https://weddleindustries.com/gear-calculator

I'm using  24.5 inch tires and 3700 rpm upshifts

Last edited by Rusty S

Rusty is down south in the LA / San Diego area. Terry is about 2 hours North, North East.

I sent a 3.88 out to get lengthened and that's what they sent back.  So it's 3.88.  At this point I'm not going to over think this. Al and Terry have each provided pretty similar numbers. 

The transmission is being built by Scott Sebastian out by Teby. It was the only way I'd get Teby off my lawn/out of my trees/from hiding in my bushes.

Ted

I take great pride in my work, I want all my customers to be pleased with the outcome. After a few e-mails regarding your transmission I know that you will not be satisfied. I suggest you have the people selling you parts build your trans. I decline your offer to let me help you with your transmission.

 Scott Sebastian, Metalcraft motorsports.

Teby can now get off your lawn

Last edited by mcmscott
mcmscott posted:

I take great pride in my work, I want all my customers to be pleased with the outcome. After a few e-mails regarding your transmission I know that you will not be satisfied. I suggest you have the people selling you parts build your trans. I decline your offer to let me help you with your transmission.

 Scott Sebastian, Metalcraft motorsports.

Teby can now get off your lawn

Hello Scott,

I'm really sorry to read this. I genuinely am. I don't know much about gearing or the trade offs with specific parts.  Please understand that by asking questions or seeking input I wasn't second guessing your knowledge or experience. I was just trying to understand my options.  My questions were just my way to learn from people who have been down this road in the past.  

Again - I apologize if the banter on here has offended you. I respect your situation and understand your decision.  No hard feelings?

Sincerely,
Ted Pierson

Last edited by TRP

No hard feelings, but untill you know what you want, don't ask questions and then dismiss every answer given to you by a transmission builder, and apply every answer by a non transmission builder.

 You will not be happy with my work because the "internet" guru's say it will not work. Therefore you should have the "internet gurus" build your transmission.

 I have more work than I can handle at the momment, doing your trans would be more of a favor than anything else. So when my opinion gets blatently rejected, I have to ask why? Apparently my thoughts on a transmission don't mean squat? So be it,, I have more customers that apreciate my work 

TRP posted:
mcmscott posted:

I take great pride in my work, I want all my customers to be pleased with the outcome. After a few e-mails regarding your transmission I know that you will not be satisfied. I suggest you have the people selling you parts build your trans. I decline your offer to let me help you with your transmission.

 Scott Sebastian, Metalcraft motorsports.

Teby can now get off your lawn

Hello Scott,

I'm really sorry to read this. I genuinely am. I don't know much about gearing or the trade offs with specific parts.  Please understand that by asking questions or seeking input I wasn't second guessing your knowledge or experience. I was just trying to understand my options.  My questions were just my way to learn from people who have been down this road in the past.  

Again - I apologize if the banter on here has offended you. I respect your situation and understand your decision.  No hard feelings?

Sincerely,
Ted Pierson

You second guessed my opinion every time we talked or e-mailed.

mcmscott posted:
TRP posted:
mcmscott posted:

I take great pride in my work, I want all my customers to be pleased with the outcome. After a few e-mails regarding your transmission I know that you will not be satisfied. I suggest you have the people selling you parts build your trans. I decline your offer to let me help you with your transmission.

 Scott Sebastian, Metalcraft motorsports.

Teby can now get off your lawn

Hello Scott,

I'm really sorry to read this. I genuinely am. I don't know much about gearing or the trade offs with specific parts.  Please understand that by asking questions or seeking input I wasn't second guessing your knowledge or experience. I was just trying to understand my options.  My questions were just my way to learn from people who have been down this road in the past.  

Again - I apologize if the banter on here has offended you. I respect your situation and understand your decision.  No hard feelings?

Sincerely,
Ted Pierson

You second guessed my opinion every time we talked or e-mailed.

That would have been the first Jab, then the second,.......

mcmscott posted:

No hard feelings, but untill you know what you want, don't ask questions and then dismiss every answer given to you by a transmission builder, and apply every answer by a non transmission builder.

 You will not be happy with my work because the "internet" guru's say it will not work. Therefore you should have the "internet gurus" build your transmission.

 I have more work than I can handle at the momment, doing your trans would be more of a favor than anything else. So when my opinion gets blatently rejected, I have to ask why? Apparently my thoughts on a transmission don't mean squat? So be it,, I have more customers that apreciate my work 

Hello Scott,

After re-reading our e-mail thread I think I understand where things went sideways.  You made a suggestion on the gearing and I responded with my own gearing options. Bad form on my part. Kind of like telling your doctor how you want him to do your bypass.  It's not quite as black and white, but the result was the same.  Maybe I should have said "I ran this by some buddies and a gear calculator and this is what I think would work for me."?

E-mail and electronic communication can be rough because a person can't pickup on non verbal cues which you might get on the phone or in person.  If I had known I was offending you I would be the first person to correct that before moving forward.

That said - It would have been cool if we had settled this between ourselves.  I will take this experience with me as I look for someone to build my gearbox.

Take it easy,
Ted

 

Last edited by TRP

If you want to have what your buddies have or a calculator has then dont ask me as a professional for opinion, if you just want an "assembler" then thats OK. I will assemble the "kit" that you provide. Labor rate is 75 per hour. From un boxing to final assembly. Phone calls are subject to a 1/2 hour minimum.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Reply By TRP: How do you make it rain in California?... buy a
sp...
From: "SpeedsterOwners.com" <**************>
Date: Thu, August 11, 2016 6:22 pm
To: mcmscott <scott@metalcraftmotorsports.com>

An open letter to specialists of all kinds:

Dear Guru,

I've got a hobby I'm really enjoying, and you are an expert in the field. You come recommended by people I respect, but you've never met me. I know you get a lot of tire-kickers and guys just jerking you around, and I'm really sorry for that (it must get really old). It's hard to make a living like that.

Even though I'm new to this and you don't know me-- I'm asking you to give my intelligence the benefit of the doubt. It has nothing in common with your particular area of expertise, but I'm reasonably successful at what I do. That's the thing about this hobby-- I'm at least partly interested in it because it's not like how I make a living, and it's a bit of a diversion from the grind.

I'm really motivated to learn all I can, and ask a lot of questions. You know that there are internet forums for every possible hobby, and that I'm bound to gravitate towards them. Please don't think this is meant as disrespect. This thing you do, you do for a living, and I'm trying to learn about it to escape my way of making a living. This is all new and really cool to me. I'm diving into the deep end, and it's all very interesting.

So, as difficult as it must be for you-- I'd like to be part of the decision-making process and would like to learn as much as I can along the way. I know that you do this on a daily basis, and I'm not trying to question your advice or conclusions. We'll probably end up just doing what you think is best, but I'd like to understand why we are doing things this way instead of that.

The thing is-- if I just give you vague perimeters for a desired outcome, and you build what you think is best, and my involvement doesn't go beyond just writing a check-- the thing isn't a hobby anymore, it's just a transaction. I can wander down to the car dealer and do the same thing. I don't want that, or I would have done it already. The journey is at least as exciting as the destination, and I've got a hungry mind-- I'd really like to learn about this stuff along the way.

I know it must get old. You say you're busy and don't have time for this. I get that, but I wonder if you remember what it's like to get so excited about something that you just needed to know everything you could about it? That you couldn't sleep? I can't expect you to be that excited about this any more, as it's the way you put food on the table-- but if you take away my "back and forth", you're taking away the things that are helping me learn. I'm sure it's not important for you that I learn, but it's vitally important to me. I'm not just buying your service, I'm buying the process.

Please don't short-circuit that process. Please don't rob the joy I've got in learning about this thing . You're the guru. I'm probably going to end up doing what you think is right. But PLEASE let me spool out a bit-- give me some line to run before you start reeling me in. I'm spending a lot of money.

It's important to me to enjoy every step of the way.

Last edited by Stan Galat

Stan....  A terrific essay hitting home on all points ..impressive and should be archived !  The prior post surely won't generate new fiends and business relationships as every successful and established business person knows that all contacts (likable or not)  are a direct or indirect potential customer. Final thought.. Word of mouth is the best for or advertisement, integrity, tends to keep the lights on and a good night's rest.

 

 

Last edited by Alan Merklin

Stan well said!  

Some clients want to be included in the "reason why" things are done while some want to simply buy.  Some vendors or service providers will treat you somewhat patronizingly, willingly or unwillingly and if your part of the group that wants to be included in the process it may not work out as one of them will be frustrated. 

In custom car building I can't see getting much success without being somewhat of a teacher to your client in sharing your experience of what has worked in your previous builds. 

 

So... that happened. I appreciate the support, guys. Let's let this one go and move on. 

Stan - your letter was spot on, man. Thank you. I was super excited about the five speed again after waiting 6 flipping months and $2500.00.  Now I'm back to being fed up with it.  Metal parts don't rot if you keep them clean and dry.  I will put them on a shelf and cool off for a bit.  

Interesting side note. Gene Berg sends you a fun little bag of candy with your parts. I didn't even get to try one. My daughter found the bag and ate them all. That's a metaphor for this project.

 

Last edited by TRP

Sorry to see the tranny build take this turn.  I will likely do another build some day and I'm definitely interested in a 5 speed. Egos are a delicate thing.  If the tranny Guru is that sensitive I would not want to do business with him.  As a Doc I get advice from nurses, technologists and colleagues all the time.  A wise man considers all advice and then decides.  To dismiss a suggestion out of pure arrogance is foolish.  There is always more than one way to skin a cat  (I hate cats).   I'm sure the tranny Guru is swamped with work.  I believe him.  Good thing since he won't be getting any referrals from this site.   

Zots! That's what they were called.  Nope not one. My daughter found 'em and loved 'em. It was sort of funny. She would go into the garage... and come back smiling.  A while later... repeat.  One flavor she didn't like... she came back with a sour look on her face.  It wasn't until the next day when I found the bag ravaged inside the box of parts that I figured it out.  When I asked her about it she just smiled and said "Sorrrry... you're not mad are you?"

I don't even know how she found them in the first place. I think Candy is to children like truffles are to pigs. They just have a nose for it. 

 

Ted - For what it's worth I just had my transaxle done. The planning of that had been in the works for two years and when I had to have the engine taken out to have body repairs done I jumped on the opportunity. Even though I had all the hypotheticals down on paper I still had doubts. After posting my thoughts here I received lots of feedback which caused me hesitation. It wasn't until I was given an opportunity to drive a car that had similar ratios to what I wanted that everything was confirmed.

For me I wanted to rid my car of that "granny" 1st and almost granny 2nd so I had a 3.44 ring and pinion put into a stock ratio transaxle. The result was that it still wasn't anywhere near what I wanted it to be. Now I knew I had to get the next one right or just settle for what I had. I'm not a settler. The drag guys love the stock setup with the big motors and when you hear them talk it sounds exciting! Well I realized that I don't like to burn the tires off between stop lights and I wanted something much different.

My initial thought on a new 1st and 2nd was to put a 2.90 1st and a 1.93 2nd in. The guys on here and at a shop I know really cautioned me on that saying that was too high and would make my starts and driving in traffic difficult. The car I drove had this setup in it - 3.88 R&P, 3.11 1st, 193 2nd, 1.21 3rd, and .89 4th. I know you're sick of this but it's important you talk to people that are in the know and ARE willing to listen to what YOU want and come up with a solution that fits.

After driving the car with the above configuration I spent hours running numbers on a gear calc and talking to Stan who has done this a few times then decided to change just the 2nd gear from the above config to a 1.86. I conveyed what I wanted to the builder and then had to wait and worry if my decision was right. When they got my car to a drivable state I went over and tried it and Ted it was like driving a $100,000 car! It really worked.

In my opinion your builder did you a huge favor that may save you $$$ and disappointment going forward. He also exposed his character not only to you but to all of us - thank you!

Ted - figure out what style of driver you are. If you like to drag race your car then stick with the ratios that are closest to stock. If you want 1st and 2nd stretched out a little don't be afraid to wait until you can confidently build it right by replacing the mainshaft with higher gears. I drive up to Bakersfield once or twice a month. That's not too far from you. Make a day of it and come on down and take my car out for a drive. We can take it up Kern Canyon Hwy 178. Take Terry's out first and get his configuration on paper then lets compare. See which type of setup you like best then design your 5 speed!

"I would give it a few days, and talk to him again. How far away is he from you? Visiting his shop for a face to face would make it easier to clear the air, and if you can't save it at least you know you tried."

Right!

With that kind of thin skin, that would be like dealing with a woman and her "Gotcha" bag. You make a simple mistake that pisses off your woman but you take the high road and make peace and apologize for your misstep (she then stores that incident in her "Gotcha" bag). Time passes and everything seems to be fine. BUT, some time later (sometimes YEARS), you make a similar misstep, and POW, she pulls that sh*t from the "Gotcha" bag and pummels you with it. 

 
Last edited by MusbJim
MusbJim posted:

"I would give it a few days, and talk to him again. How far away is he from you? Visiting his shop for a face to face would make it easier to clear the air, and if you can't save it at least you know you tried."

Right!

With that kind of thin skin, that would be like dealing with a woman and her "Gotcha" bag. You make a simple mistake that pisses off your woman but you take the high road and make peace and apologize for your misstep (she then stores that incident in her "Gotcha" bag). Time passes and everything seems to be fine. BUT, some time later (sometimes YEARS), you make a similar misstep, and POW, she pulls that sh*t from the "Gotcha" bag and pummels you with it. 

 

It's 2 guys talking, Jim, and it's what I would do. I've found (time and time again) that after tempers (and egos) cool down, sometimes you can still make it work. Maybe it won't, but you don't know until you try.

And my apologies for what follows, but I felt something had to be said....

mcmscott posted:

I take great pride in my work, I want all my customers to be pleased with the outcome. After a few e-mails regarding your transmission I know that you will not be satisfied. I suggest you have the people selling you parts build your trans. I decline your offer to let me help you with your transmission.

 Scott Sebastian, Metalcraft motorsports.

Teby can now get off your lawn

The thing that's been bugging me about this whole sh*tstorm (and it's taken awhile to figure out) is why did you do this here? This should have been a private conversation with the person you're dealing with (where the rest of the conversation was being conducted) and not the public humiliation attempt you were looking for (I can see no other reason for doing this the way you did). I'm just calling it as I see it here- I'm a Samba-ite as well, have a lot of respect for your knowledge, and was 1 of the guys here suggesting to Ted that you would be a good choice for this, but now I don't really know what to think.

Before you reply to this please re-read Stan's post on the previous page and give it a little time to settle in. Al Blanchette

Last edited by ALB
ALB posted:
MusbJim posted:

"I would give it a few days, and talk to him again. How far away is he from you? Visiting his shop for a face to face would make it easier to clear the air, and if you can't save it at least you know you tried."

Right!

With that kind of thin skin, that would be like dealing with a woman and her "Gotcha" bag. You make a simple mistake that pisses off your woman but you take the high road and make peace and apologize for your misstep (she then stores that incident in her "Gotcha" bag). Time passes and everything seems to be fine. BUT, some time later (sometimes YEARS), you make a similar misstep, and POW, she pulls that sh*t from the "Gotcha" bag and pummels you with it. 

 

It's 2 guys talking, Jim, and it's what I would do. I've found (time and time again) that after tempers (and egos) cool down, sometimes you can still make it work. Maybe it won't, but you don't know until you try.

And my apologies for what follows, but I felt something had to be said....

mcmscott posted:

I take great pride in my work, I want all my customers to be pleased with the outcome. After a few e-mails regarding your transmission I know that you will not be satisfied. I suggest you have the people selling you parts build your trans. I decline your offer to let me help you with your transmission.

 Scott Sebastian, Metalcraft motorsports.

Teby can now get off your lawn

The thing that's been bugging me about this whole sh*tstorm (and it's taken awhile to figure out) is why did you do this here? This should have been a private conversation with the person you're dealing with (where the rest of the conversation was being conducted) and not the public humiliation attempt you were looking for (I can see no other reason for doing this the way you did). I'm just calling it as I see it here- I'm a Samba-ite as well, have a lot of respect for your knowledge, and was 1 of the guys here suggesting to Ted that you would be a good choice for this, but now I don't really know what to think.

Before you reply to this please re-read Stan's post on the previous page and give it a little time to settle in. Al Blanchette

You are correct in that I probably should not have posted this here, my bad, however it seems as if every customer that comes to me from this site has the "internet build" going on and only wants to do what the internet says, they ask for your opinion only to hope it matches what the internet people say, when you give your own opinion, basically you are told you are wrong but they still want you to work for them. That is a slap in the face. After been "slapped in the face" numerous times from this site I have a very low tollerance. I consider myself very knowelegable (spelling?) in every thing VW related, I have been doing this since 1984. So understand that I think my opinion weighs more than some one's that just does this as a hobby. The whole "customer is always right" is some times wrong. If I sense the customer will not be happy before we engage in an agreement I feel it is best for both parties to seperate before any money or parts are exchanged, kind of "nip it in the bud" if you will. Did I act hastely? Damn right I did, I shouldn't have but I did, sorry for that.

 Stans post hits every car person, myself included. The difference tho, is when I do something for you, I am more exited to see it turn out great than you, the customer, so when I am, in not so many words, told I dont know what I am talking about, and I am going to buy my parts elsewhere, I know at the end of the tunnel there is a "let down" awaiting. I don't want that let down on my shoulders. And I don't want you to be let down.

 I hope this kinda explains my reasoning, I also did act entirely too hastily and opoligize for it again, my bad. After doing this for more than 30 years I get a "little" impatiant.

                        Scott Sebastian,  Metalcraft motorsports. AKA MCM Scott  

ALB posted:

What would you have done different than what Ted wanted, Scott?

Honestly, just not take it to a public forum, once again, my bad. Other than that as a builder, I don't like to get pushed around, so, not much else. I respect all my customers very much, you know what I want in exchange? Just the same and nothing more. When the customer thinks, or acts as he is "above me" then we are on different playing fields.

 I have a "pet peve" about bieng belittled 

Last edited by mcmscott
mcmscott posted:
ALB posted:

What would you have done different than what Ted wanted, Scott?

Honestly, just not take it to a public forum, once again, my bad. Other than that as a builder, I don't like to get pushed around, so, not much else. I respect all my customers very much, you know what I want in exchange? Just the same and nothing more. When the customer thinks, or acts as he is "above me" then we are on different playing fields.

 I have a "pet peve" about bieng belittled 

Scott, I think Al is asking "what would you have done different" with the trans vs what Ted wanted.

This is way above my paygrade but I'm trying to learn also.

FYI

Clutch pedal shaft 

the new shaft you purchased are nice  I use a double shear bracket step up.  The reason for my post is to warn you that most likely you have a aftermarket pedal assembly - meaning an "empi part"  and they are not made to factory specs  they have there own shaft diamension.  On Mitch's pedal assembly I had to get one custom made to fit the pedal assembly. Also when you remove the pedal assembly to change the clutch cross shaft you may also want to box the clutch pedal.. Call me and I will explain.  Or send it up.

regarding your trans gearing, keep in mind my answers to your questions of gearing and parts are from my experience around having driven them with several gear combos. I have ran some other combos that were from great stop light to stoplight and the compromise was the gap to fifth gear.  Your tire size is an important factor. I have a tall rear tire and with your shorter tire the gear combo changes slightly. Again, you will see the difference in the gearing between fourth and fifth up shifting and downshifting relating to the tire size. Think about it!  Your cuising along at 65+- and want to pass someone or you want to speed up do to a slight hill. That fourth gear ratio is important.  Your driving 152 towards Watsonville and in either third or fourth gear thru the turns moving pretty good and come to a tight corner and drop down to third or second. This is where those gear combos make the difference. Now think of those same situations with your four speed box. You got it?  You can't drive it like you really want to.  I driven 17 up and down in my 63 loaded with a few vangan trans in the car in fourth gear passing several bmws and honda, Toyotas because of the gearing combos.. Your trans builder or experienced berg five users are the only ones you may give you recommendations!

then once you finally get it in the car and drive it. You will drive it harder on the twistys and fine you need good brakes you slow you down quicker also.. I know  I had a few close calls driving from auburn to placervile having to brake hard to avoid going down the canyon because your confidence becomes higher which relate to faster corner speeds. Someday I will up grade to the CSP brakes sitting in the box on the floor of the old shop......excuse me for babbling.

 

 

;

 

Anthony, "babbling" is good....that's how we all learn.

Scott, You're absolutely right!....Being "slapped in the face" and "pushed around" by a mere hobbyist who isn't immediately taking into account your superior knowledge, that far exceeds internet babbling, is indeed  "insulting" and shouldn't be tolerated. Fortunately I don't think you're going to be irritated in the future by questions/opinions from this site (that's mostly frequented by "ignorant hobbyist") because most of us are penny-pinchers and would balk at  $32.50 charged for a consulting telephone call.   

I think that perhaps it would be good to let Ted and Scott sort this out between themselves now.  Excitement about a build, and wanting to learn all you can is so natural (it happened to me with my IM6), but sometimes - on a public forum such as this where there are so many likewise interested guys - it can lead to misunderstandings and even some degree of upset.

This thread has had a good run, so let's wait and see what the outcome is.  Hopefully, it's a positive one for those two personally involved, and we all will be interested in what that outcome is.

MusbJim posted:

"I would give it a few days, and talk to him again. How far away is he from you? Visiting his shop for a face to face would make it easier to clear the air, and if you can't save it at least you know you tried."

Right!

With that kind of thin skin, that would be like dealing with a woman and her "Gotcha" bag. You make a simple mistake that pisses off your woman but you take the high road and make peace and apologize for your misstep (she then stores that incident in her "Gotcha" bag). Time passes and everything seems to be fine. BUT, some time later (sometimes YEARS), you make a similar misstep, and POW, she pulls that sh*t from the "Gotcha" bag and pummels you with it. 

 

I know I'm a little late reading this but I laughed so hard I almost pissed myself.  Jim you have such sage wisdom.  My wife even laughed.  She knows its true.

But hey we know this only applies to women.  You guys need to talk this out privately and get a tranny built cause I might need a 5 speed one day.

Last edited by 550 Phil

I've just been accused (in a PM) of sarcastically throwing gasoline on the fire that others are trying to extinguish....Not so!...Scott has verbally reduced to smoldering ashes that bridge of possible reconciliation. I was merely (and accurately) indicating my understanding of his mind-set by framing his own (justifying?) words.

BTW, I miscalculated his minimum half-hour telephone 'consulting fee'....It's $37.50, not $32.50!.....I never was much good at math. 

mcmscott posted:
ALB posted:

What would you have done different than what Ted wanted, Scott?

Honestly, just not take it to a public forum, once again, my bad. Other than that as a builder, I don't like to get pushed around, so, not much else. I respect all my customers very much, you know what I want in exchange? Just the same and nothing more. When the customer thinks, or acts as he is "above me" then we are on different playing fields.

 I have a "pet peve" about bieng belittled 

Scott,

I've really tried to take the high road on this. I've even taken more of the blame than I should have. I'm going to ask one more time to let this go.

I appreciate you coming here and trying to apologize for airing this nonsense on a public forum. Thank you.  I don't understand why you are belaboring the situation with comments of 'red flags',  'internet builds', 'disrespect', 'belittling', 'customer acts like he is above me' and 'not knowing what I want'. Comments like those are a starting to make me second guess the position I've taken with this fiasco.  

I have read and reread every message between the two of us. You misread the entire transaction. Not once did anything of that nature transpire. You started to acknowledge that. You apologized... then went right back to pointing fingers and right back to trying to justify your actions because of what you thought I said or did. That's not an apology. That's sorry, not sorry. Reread what you wrote. You said sorry and then went right back into justification of your behavior. The worst part is that it's based on a misunderstanding. You recommended one set. I said I wanted something different. You then got pissed because it went against your professional opinion. You called that a slap in your face. That was not my intention. If you'd like, I can post our e-mail exchange here. I am so far from the character you are trying to use as justification for the giant chip on your shoulder. 

Bottom line is this - You have a reputation for being a very skilled fabricator. You are known for your knowledge of VW transmissions. Nobody is going to dispute that. Unfortunately you are also known to be a hot head and difficult person to work with.  You are only reinforcing that reputation.

I genuinely regret every damn thing about this 5 speed. The parts are going on a shelf. At this point I'd rather make a damn ashtray out of it. For **** sake. It's a damned gearbox not a magnum opus. I labored more over these stupid gear ratios than I did over naming my kids.  The perspective on this **** is ridiculously warped. ITS A GEARBOX!!!! NOT THE CUP OF CHRIST. 

Scott, we need to see other people. It's not you, it's me.

Can we move on now?

 

Last edited by TRP
TRP posted:
mcmscott posted:
ALB posted:

What would you have done different than what Ted wanted, Scott?

Honestly, just not take it to a public forum, once again, my bad. Other than that as a builder, I don't like to get pushed around, so, not much else. I respect all my customers very much, you know what I want in exchange? Just the same and nothing more. When the customer thinks, or acts as he is "above me" then we are on different playing fields.

 I have a "pet peve" about bieng belittled 

Scott,

I've really tried to take the high road on this. I've even taken more of the blame than I should have. I'm going to ask one more time to let this go.

I appreciate you coming here and trying to apologize for airing this nonsense on a public forum. Thank you.  I don't understand why you are belaboring the situation with comments of 'red flags',  'internet builds', 'disrespect', 'belittling', 'customer acts like he is above me' and 'not knowing what I want'. Comments like those are a starting to make me second guess the position I've taken with this fiasco.  

I have read and reread every message between the two of us. You misread the entire transaction. Not once did anything of that nature transpire. You started to acknowledge that. You apologized... then went right back to pointing fingers and right back to trying to justify your actions because of what you thought I said or did. That's not an apology. That's sorry, not sorry. Reread what you wrote. You said sorry and then went right back into justification of your behavior. The worst part is that it's based on a misunderstanding. You recommended one set. I said I wanted something different. You then got pissed because it went against your professional opinion. You called that a slap in your face. That was not my intention. If you'd like, I can post our e-mail exchange here. I am so far from the character you are trying to use as justification for the giant chip on your shoulder. 

Bottom line is this - You have a reputation for being a very skilled fabricator. You are known for your knowledge of VW transmissions. Nobody is going to dispute that. Unfortunately you are also known to be a hot head and difficult person to work with.  You are only reinforcing that reputation.

I genuinely regret every damn thing about this 5 speed. The parts are going on a shelf. At this point I'd rather make a damn ashtray out of it. For **** sake. It's a damned gearbox not a magnum opus. I labored more over these stupid gear ratios than I did over naming my kids.  The perspective on this **** is ridiculously warped. ITS A GEARBOX!!!! NOT THE CUP OF CHRIST. 

Scott, we need to see other people. It's not you, it's me.

Can we move on now?

 

"I labored more over these stupid gear ratios than I did over naming my kids."

BTW, how are Adobe, Acrobat, and PDF doing these days?

Robert M (Not a Poopiehead) posted:
TRP posted:
mcmscott posted:
ALB posted:

What would you have done different than what Ted wanted, Scott?

Honestly, just not take it to a public forum, once again, my bad. Other than that as a builder, I don't like to get pushed around, so, not much else. I respect all my customers very much, you know what I want in exchange? Just the same and nothing more. When the customer thinks, or acts as he is "above me" then we are on different playing fields.

 I have a "pet peve" about bieng belittled 

Scott,

I've really tried to take the high road on this. I've even taken more of the blame than I should have. I'm going to ask one more time to let this go.

I appreciate you coming here and trying to apologize for airing this nonsense on a public forum. Thank you.  I don't understand why you are belaboring the situation with comments of 'red flags',  'internet builds', 'disrespect', 'belittling', 'customer acts like he is above me' and 'not knowing what I want'. Comments like those are a starting to make me second guess the position I've taken with this fiasco.  

I have read and reread every message between the two of us. You misread the entire transaction. Not once did anything of that nature transpire. You started to acknowledge that. You apologized... then went right back to pointing fingers and right back to trying to justify your actions because of what you thought I said or did. That's not an apology. That's sorry, not sorry. Reread what you wrote. You said sorry and then went right back into justification of your behavior. The worst part is that it's based on a misunderstanding. You recommended one set. I said I wanted something different. You then got pissed because it went against your professional opinion. You called that a slap in your face. That was not my intention. If you'd like, I can post our e-mail exchange here. I am so far from the character you are trying to use as justification for the giant chip on your shoulder. 

Bottom line is this - You have a reputation for being a very skilled fabricator. You are known for your knowledge of VW transmissions. Nobody is going to dispute that. Unfortunately you are also known to be a hot head and difficult person to work with.  You are only reinforcing that reputation.

I genuinely regret every damn thing about this 5 speed. The parts are going on a shelf. At this point I'd rather make a damn ashtray out of it. For **** sake. It's a damned gearbox not a magnum opus. I labored more over these stupid gear ratios than I did over naming my kids.  The perspective on this **** is ridiculously warped. ITS A GEARBOX!!!! NOT THE CUP OF CHRIST. 

Scott, we need to see other people. It's not you, it's me.

Can we move on now?

 

"I labored more over these stupid gear ratios than I did over naming my kids."

BTW, how are Adobe, Acrobat, and PDF doing these days?

HA! Those aren't my kids! Acrobat and PDF are hoodlums.    

Anthony posted:

FYI

Clutch pedal shaft 

the new shaft you purchased are nice  I use a double shear bracket step up.  The reason for my post is to warn you that most likely you have a aftermarket pedal assembly - meaning an "empi part"  and they are not made to factory specs  they have there own shaft diamension.  On Mitch's pedal assembly I had to get one custom made to fit the pedal assembly. Also when you remove the pedal assembly to change the clutch cross shaft you may also want to box the clutch pedal.. Call me and I will explain.  Or send it up.

regarding your trans gearing, keep in mind my answers to your questions of gearing and parts are from my experience around having driven them with several gear combos. I have ran some other combos that were from great stop light to stoplight and the compromise was the gap to fifth gear.  Your tire size is an important factor. I have a tall rear tire and with your shorter tire the gear combo changes slightly. Again, you will see the difference in the gearing between fourth and fifth up shifting and downshifting relating to the tire size. Think about it!  Your cuising along at 65+- and want to pass someone or you want to speed up do to a slight hill. That fourth gear ratio is important.  Your driving 152 towards Watsonville and in either third or fourth gear thru the turns moving pretty good and come to a tight corner and drop down to third or second. This is where those gear combos make the difference. Now think of those same situations with your four speed box. You got it?  You can't drive it like you really want to.  I driven 17 up and down in my 63 loaded with a few vangan trans in the car in fourth gear passing several bmws and honda, Toyotas because of the gearing combos.. Your trans builder or experienced berg five users are the only ones you may give you recommendations!

then once you finally get it in the car and drive it. You will drive it harder on the twistys and fine you need good brakes you slow you down quicker also.. I know  I had a few close calls driving from auburn to placervile having to brake hard to avoid going down the canyon because your confidence becomes higher which relate to faster corner speeds. Someday I will up grade to the CSP brakes sitting in the box on the floor of the old shop......excuse me for babbling.

 

 

;

 

Hey Buddy,

I took your suggestions to heart. Your words rang true. Don't over think it. If I end up building this, I will go with what you suggested. It looked great on paper. The chart looked spot on and fun as hell.  Thank you for being a solid straight shooter.  As this s storm blew up, it reminded me of our first talk when you were talking to me about my 4 speed. You've always been so patient and legit. I appreciate it. I wish you were a transmission builder.

Regarding the clutch rod, what's a double shear bracket?! I had the arm tig welded by Kings Muffler here in town. Flipped the owner a $20.00 and he welded it up rock solid. I really like the idea of boxing the pedal. That's brilliant.  For those who are lost... the clutch pedal arm is shaped like a backwards C. Boxing it in would involve welding a plate on the arm to make that backwards C into a closed 'box'. In this case the finished arm would be like a D. This would give the arm tons of strength. It won't twist.  The new shift rod fit like a glove. There was no play at all. Like.a.glove. Funny thing is that now I'm thinking about upgrading to a juice clutch.

What a week...

Ted,

I hate to bring up the past but as I was perusing today's posts I somehow got sidetracked, I don't know how, squirrel! I came across some posts related to one of Stan's permutations of his monster Type 1 from June of 2014. In that post Stan was wondering why he got so caught up in the insane modifications to his engine, and he wrote that Mrs. Stan was calling it quits to his mutation and he quipped that he wondered if the time he had invested in his dual coil, twin-plugged monster was worth it and you wrote AND I quote, "Keep at it. Any project worth while takes time." I bring this up not to shame you but to suggest that you follow your own advice and keep at it. I hate to see you throw in the towel on this one just because you went over a speed bump that was bigger than you anticipated and bottomed out your sump. Pu the idea aside for a minute, okay, but don't quit. You wanted the five speed for a reason. That reason is still there and you should seek to achieve it.

Last edited by Robert M
TRP posted:
Anthony posted:

FYI

Clutch pedal shaft 

the new shaft you purchased are nice  I use a double shear bracket step up.  The reason for my post is to warn you that most likely you have a aftermarket pedal assembly - meaning an "empi part"  and they are not made to factory specs  they have there own shaft diamension.  On Mitch's pedal assembly I had to get one custom made to fit the pedal assembly. Also when you remove the pedal assembly to change the clutch cross shaft you may also want to box the clutch pedal.. Call me and I will explain.  Or send it up.

regarding your trans gearing, keep in mind my answers to your questions of gearing and parts are from my experience around having driven them with several gear combos. I have ran some other combos that were from great stop light to stoplight and the compromise was the gap to fifth gear.  Your tire size is an important factor. I have a tall rear tire and with your shorter tire the gear combo changes slightly. Again, you will see the difference in the gearing between fourth and fifth up shifting and downshifting relating to the tire size. Think about it!  Your cuising along at 65+- and want to pass someone or you want to speed up do to a slight hill. That fourth gear ratio is important.  Your driving 152 towards Watsonville and in either third or fourth gear thru the turns moving pretty good and come to a tight corner and drop down to third or second. This is where those gear combos make the difference. Now think of those same situations with your four speed box. You got it?  You can't drive it like you really want to.  I driven 17 up and down in my 63 loaded with a few vangan trans in the car in fourth gear passing several bmws and honda, Toyotas because of the gearing combos.. Your trans builder or experienced berg five users are the only ones you may give you recommendations!

then once you finally get it in the car and drive it. You will drive it harder on the twistys and fine you need good brakes you slow you down quicker also.. I know  I had a few close calls driving from auburn to placervile having to brake hard to avoid going down the canyon because your confidence becomes higher which relate to faster corner speeds. Someday I will up grade to the CSP brakes sitting in the box on the floor of the old shop......excuse me for babbling.

 

 

;

 

Hey Buddy,

I took your suggestions to heart. Your words rang true. Don't over think it. If I end up building this, I will go with what you suggested. It looked great on paper. The chart looked spot on and fun as hell.  Thank you for being a solid straight shooter.  As this s storm blew up, it reminded me of our first talk when you were talking to me about my 4 speed. You've always been so patient and legit. I appreciate it. I wish you were a transmission builder.

Regarding the clutch rod, what's a double shear bracket?! I had the arm tig welded by Kings Muffler here in town. Flipped the owne