Insurance suggestions for a Beck.....

@skippythedog

I have my Beck (currently in for repair after major accident) insured with Hagerty and couldn't be happier.  I drive it on weekends and to major gatherings like Carlisle, totaling 4-5k miles per year at a cost around $500 for an agreed value of $35k.  Your price was a smokin' deal.  If you get an agreed value in the neighborhood of what you paid, your cost should be considerably less than mine.

EDIT: Regarding the driving lights, check with Carey Hines ( @chines1 ) at Special Edition (Beck manufacturer) for a set of Marchals.  They mount them by simply drilling through the top of the front bumper.  I believe mine are (were?) about 15"-18" apart.  See picture.

Spectacular purchase! Looking forward to seeing pics of this beauty cruising Seattle!

Mounting driving lights to the bumper can induce jiggling, depending on where they are mounted.  The bumpers are fiberglass and not the most rugged thing you could mount to so they allow the light to vibrate slightly.  A better solution might be a mount that clamps on to the bumper mount bars and holds the light securely.  If you do a search on here you'll probably see a photo os someone's set-up.  In the photos below showing my Nerf Bars, those mounts simply grasp the top and bottom of the bumper bracket and have a 90º tab at the top to mount the light to.  They're pretty effective.

My car is more of an outlaw with Nerf Bars for bumpers, so I made up a pair of stainless steel brackets bolted directly to the body.  Massive overkill, but they look decent and don't vibrate.  The lights shown are Marchal 672/682 Driving light reproductions (non-fluted lens), are period-correct and are available from Beck or on eBay.  There is also a fog light version (fluted lens either clear or amber) for the same money.  If you go Marchal, make sure you get the H3 Halogen bulb version, NOT the Tungsten bulb, for better brightness.  A good alternative is the Hella 500 (round) series, but the Hella lens is flat, rather than nippled.  If all you want is decent light, either will do.  Make sure you run a relay for the driving lights - the headlight switch can't handle the extra current.

For mounting fog lights check out the brackets that are offered by Sierra Madre.  They clamp onto the ca's bumper mounts and are really excellent.  Easy to install and stay perfectly in place.   Not cheap at $168.50 a pair but they're better than any other way of mounting the fog lights.   And If you ever decide to remove your fog lights you won't leave holes in the bumpers. 

Sierra Madre's p/n is SMC.465.000

Gordon Nichols posted:

Mounting driving lights to the bumper can induce jiggling, depending on where they are mounted.  The bumpers are fiberglass and not the most rugged thing you could mount to so they allow the light to vibrate slightly.  A better solution might be a mount that clamps on to the bumper mount bars and holds the light securely.  If you do a search on here you'll probably see a photo os someone's set-up.  In the photos below showing my Nerf Bars, those mounts simply grasp the top and bottom of the bumper bracket and have a 90º tab at the top to mount the light to.  They're pretty effective.

My car is more of an outlaw with Nerf Bars for bumpers, so I made up a pair of stainless steel brackets bolted directly to the body.  Massive overkill, but they look decent and don't vibrate.  The lights shown are Marchal 672/682 Driving light reproductions (non-fluted lens), are period-correct and are available from Beck or on eBay.  There is also a fog light version (fluted lens either clear or amber) for the same money.  If you go Marchal, make sure you get the H3 Halogen bulb version, NOT the Tungsten bulb, for better brightness.  A good alternative is the Hella 500 (round) series, but the Hella lens is flat, rather than nippled.  If all you want is decent light, either will do.  Make sure you run a relay for the driving lights - the headlight switch can't handle the extra current.

@Gordon Nichols

Photos not there.

Hmmmm......   I can see them both on mine and your posts......

Another bumper mount is from CIP1 at roughly half the price of Sierra Madre (I suspect that S-M is of a higher quality).  This version has longer/higher light placement - the Sierra Madre version mounts the light lower.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDe...1%2D941%2D351%2DCHPR

@skippythedog congrats on the car and fantastic price. I am on my second Beck, my first was your exact color combo. I had Carey add driving lights and I can tell you they light up the road very nicely. They were painted merlot to match the body and mounted to the bumper without vibration. I will see if I have any other pics that may help you out. 

As for insurance I had Hagerty and now GEICO (Classic Car). I had claims with both companies, mostly for towing service and had no issue.

. 

+1 Hagerty

@skippythedog. I'm surprised no one has said it... WELCOME TO THE MADNESS! Beautiful car at a great price.

im also in Seattle and happy to help out if you need anything.  I see in the map you are located in the Renton area.  Near the Boeing plant.  I work at the corporate offices and use my car year round - mostly when not raining heavily.  ( or my 1969 Vespa, or 50s R50 BMW.)... like you I like to drive stuff I like to work on.).  You will likely see me driving up/down Rainier early mornings/ late evenings in a silver VS with whitewalls. 

i was insured with Hagerty, great company, but no longer offers commuting coverage.  I switched to American Modern in 2015, which also offered  agreed value, same perks as Hagerty (including towing), AND commuting to work coverage - 2 days per week, each calendar year ( as long as I had a primary/daily driver vehicle... which in my case is my Q7.). That's over 100 commuting days... so most Seattle sunny  weekdays ;-).  They seem to insure almost everything, great rates.. up~500$ for the car, under 130$ for the bikes year round coverage... and they insure your daily driver as well if you want them to.      Submitted claims a couple times... works great ( towing, windshield... nothing Major).  

A member here had a fire/total loss two years back, and his experience with American Modern was flawless as well if I remember right. ( we talked extensively when I was changing insurance companies... his experience made me feel comfortable about the switch, and now they cover all my classics.)

Let me know if you need local resources for keeping up the car.  Happy to help.

cheers,

Luis

https://www.speedsterowners.co...eedsters-and-spyders

Latest review on the LEDs.   Happy driving!

I suggest you also check with Grundy about insurance.  I use them and I think they are more flexible about your use of the car.

Lfepardo posted:

@skippythedog. I'm surprised no one has said it... WELCOME TO THE MADNESS! Beautiful car at a great price.

im also in Seattle and happy to help out if you need anything.  I see in the map you are located in the Renton area.  Near the Boeing plant.  I work at the corporate offices and use my car year round - mostly when not raining heavily.  ( or my 1969 Vespa, or 50s R50 BMW.)... like you I like to drive stuff I like to work on.).  You will likely see me driving up/down Rainier early mornings/ late evenings in a silver VS with whitewalls. 

i was insured with Hagerty, great company, but no longer offers commuting coverage.  I switched to American Modern in 2015, which also offered  agreed value, same perks as Hagerty (including towing), AND commuting to work coverage - 2 days per week, each calendar year ( as long as I had a primary/daily driver vehicle... which in my case is my Q7.). That's over 100 commuting days... so most Seattle sunny  weekdays ;-).  They seem to insure almost everything, great rates.. up~500$ for the car, under 130$ for the bikes year round coverage... and they insure your daily driver as well if you want them to.      Submitted claims a couple times... works great ( towing, windshield... nothing Major).  

A member here had a fire/total loss two years back, and his experience with American Modern was flawless as well if I remember right. ( we talked extensively when I was changing insurance companies... his experience made me feel comfortable about the switch, and now they cover all my classics.)

Let me know if you need local resources for keeping up the car.  Happy to help.

cheers,

Luis

Thanks for the tip on AM Insurance...I'm just up the hill from Kubota Gardens.  I too have some scooters: 2 R100's (one w/ a Velorex sidecar), Valkyrie, TW200, an XS650 cafe bike (broke the $10k barrier on parts alone on that one)...and just bought a Zuma 50 from the navigator on the Polar Star Ice breaker...just stuffed a 70cc kit on that one......had a couple of Vespa P200's fairly recently. I used to be  the MAC Tool Dealer in W. Seattle, Airport Way, Ballard, so I know the scooter gang.....Please let me know who the local resources are:..I know Hans in W. Seattle will play with it (for me anyway)...too bad Jack/Wolfsburg Motors in Ballard is gone...they were good. My local haunts, around dusk, are Pritchard Beach or Southpark to let the dog patrol the shoreline....Looks like I lucked out on the title with this one. It is titled as a 57.....Had it been titled as an '05, I apparently would have had to jump through a few hoops to exempt it from emissions... A pan based car is easier to title....Speaking of that....What can you say about a Beck vs a pan based VS?  I've taken a bit of a leap on this car (never sat in a Beck)...but was sold on the tube frame once I sat in an Intermeccanica roadster that was for sale last year out at Giordanos in Carnation...Everything fell together on this deal I had searched for 2-3 years, always just missing local deals, then trying to wrangle buddies to examine ones for me across the country or trying to get enough details to warrant flying somewhere to seal the deal....The seller of this one had no idea what he had...."1600cc motor"....didn't describe it as a Beck etc...When I called back to Beck to check it out, they suggested I have a local shop (former dealer for Beck) in PA check out the car and handle the deal....When I called that fellow, he says, "The car's here now for service...." Old owner never took it home. I let the shop install a 911 blower (heat) since it had the solid fan housing...They filled it up with Avgas LL100 and shoved it on the truck last Thursday...$1370 shipping.....stoked!  

karl

@skippythedog On the "usable light" topic, have you considered LEDs?   https://vintagecarleds.com/

bunch of us use them.  They make a huge difference.  Give Thomas a ring.  He's great to work with guaranteed for life- free replacement.  AWESOME product and customer service.  Run a search on the forum.  This simple retrofit has been discussed in detail. 

cheers,

Let me revert a bit later today... just jumping in the car to head to a mtng.  Becks are awesome.  You found what sounds to be a great car.  

There was a Local IM for sale last week... which sold lighting fast.  Six figure build, that sold for the price of a VS.   unfortunately I had to leave town for business.  I love my VS... only a few guys will touch them locally.  but they local guys a great!

For anything/ everything Franklyn's south of IKEA... he runs a VW Speedshop, has a IM, and is an all around nice experienced guy that build/restores anything VW and A few porsches.  He does local work for CB Performance customers- Pat Downs ( CA) originally pointed me to him as a local resource.

Then there is Wagensmitt ( near the UW).  Mike is the engine whisperer! Old old school VW guy...run his own shop for +40 yrs, works on cars, now basically one/two at a time.  His expertise is engines, and will teach anyone willing to listen to do the basic maintenance stuff... he is a local gem!  I fear the day he retires and closes shop... he does have one apprentice.

shoot... I'm late.  Got to run.  I will pM you my #. Cheers

+1 Hagerty - I had a lady back into me and put her trailer hitch through the front of my car. Their service was great and the check came very quick and my rates have not increased (over a year).

I've been recommending American Modern for several years.  They were the only company that would put it in writing that you could drive your car to work occasionally.  The others would all say "no problem" but wouldn't put it in writing and the fine print clearly only allowed "pleasure driving."  I know, I know, it's ALWAYS a pleasure driving your car, but do you really ever want to argue that point with a big insurance company?  Get it in writing.

Have you actually seen the car yet?  Where was it advertised?  Wasn't on Trovit was it? 

Car arrived yesterday. It was on Craigslist in West Chester, PA, not listed as a Beck, described as having a 1600 engine....I spied that big shelf behind the fan housing, thought it might be a Beck....inquired w/ Beck etc......has all the usual stuff, CB Performance 1915cc, Freeway Flyer trans....running the small carbs, so 90hp instead of 125.....but I actually like that as I think the low end grunt is better and it should live longer.

I had searched pretty hard for a couple of years, missed a few local cars, expanded the search.....The guys at Beck gave me the name of one of their former dealers in West Chester, Chris Radbill who has a shop there; said he might be willing to inspect and handle the deal etc.....so I called him....he said, "The cars here now getting serviced." I felt pretty confident buying this one sight unseen. Everything just fell together. I had Chris install heater boxes and the 911 blower motor trick, covered the old owners bill and paid $23.5k......$1370 shipping. Nice car. I'm a bit chunky for those seats though...might have to explore an option...  

Nice score on that car, Karl!  @skippythedog

Welcome To The Madness, and wishing you many enjoyable miles of top-down cruising! 

skippythedog posted:

Car arrived yesterday. It was on Craigslist in West Chester, PA, not listed as a Beck, described as having a 1600 engine....I spied that big shelf behind the fan housing, thought it might be a Beck....inquired w/ Beck etc......has all the usual stuff, CB Performance 1915cc, Freeway Flyer trans....running the small carbs, so 90hp instead of 125.....but I actually like that as I think the low end grunt is better and it should live longer.

I had searched pretty hard for a couple of years, missed a few local cars, expanded the search.....The guys at Beck gave me the name of one of their former dealers in West Chester, Chris Radbill who has a shop there; said he might be willing to inspect and handle the deal etc.....so I called him....he said, "The cars here now getting serviced." I felt pretty confident buying this one sight unseen. Everything just fell together. I had Chris install heater boxes and the 911 blower motor trick, covered the old owners bill and paid $23.5k......$1370 shipping. Nice car. I'm a bit chunky for those seats though...might have to explore an option...  

I'm a bit chunky for those seats though...might have to explore an option...  

Just go from skippythedog to skippythedessert and in no time you'll fit perfectly. I kid, I kid, LOL

There's plenty of room in a Beck for wider seats, but avoid the Roadster style as they will raise you up too high.

Congratulations on the car!  Sounds like a great deal.  Let me know  if you're considering selling the speedster seats. 

@skippythedog

 "Everything just fell together. I had Chris install heater boxes and the 911 blower motor trick,"

What's the 911 Blower motor trick?

I'm assuming for heat/ventilation Bob, using a 911 blower assembly.

I assumed the same, Danny, but curious about the details.  One thing I would add to my car - if I were doing it again - would be a blower motor for better heat.  Even with that massive engine back there, some days I could use more warmth.

I can’t do a retro fit as Henry does it under the dash, so I am looking for another way, inline some how.  

Perhaps a hamster or gerbil driven fan would work.

Bob: IM S6 posted:

@skippythedog

 "Everything just fell together. I had Chris install heater boxes and the 911 blower motor trick,"

What's the 911 Blower motor trick?

Beck has that big shelf behind the fan housing allowing you to install a 911 (or any suitable) blower assembly there and route the heater hoses directly down into the heater box inlets at the sheet metal. This is really only suitable if it's configured as mine was with no heat and a 36hp style fan shroud. I think these shrouds look cleaner and provide better cooling without the obstruction of the heat vents....I had heater boxes installed too...The blower is not dependent on motor speed....I think if you really want some serious heat, (and if you have heat already) the best option is the gas heaters which can be had from the UK for about $600....mount that in the back and simply duct it right into the cabin. A high volume fan swirling air in the cabin will be just as effective as the defrost ducts at defogging the glass and plastic windows. The stock footwell heat is nice for top down or solo half tonneau driving. Aftermarket kidney pad seat heaters would be a nice addition as well. I used to install inline blowers in bugs years ago. Benefit was negligible at best...In the bugs, the stock heat really wasn't bad as long as you kept the many junctions, hoses  and sheet metal flaps tight. There really isn't enough room under the bonnet for a gas heater. Installing one at the rear might require one to ensure there is sufficient fuel flow (additional line and even dedicated tank outlet maybe)  for your carburetion...  

@Bob IM-6 Have you tried the Davis vent system it would work and your P local shop should be  able to do it you have room  with that big trunk 

In the Bizarro world of MUSBJIM, where there's an easy non-complicated solution for most of your Speedster ills, I humbly (re)submit this solution. An $18 12-volt electric blanket (from Walmart) that you plug into the auxiliary power outlet of your car.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ele...mp;wl13=&veh=sem

Big enough to spread over you & your right-seaters' lap. Combined with wearing a nice  cozy jacket & hat plus a wool scarf around your neck (plus the heated seats of your IM)...Voila, cozy top-down cruising! 

...and delivered to your door from Amazon for $21....Allegedly it draws only 3.5 to 4 amps, about 48 watts....

@Bob: IM S6  

12 Volt In-line Bilge Blower for a boat.  They come in different diameters (2-1/2" - 4" or 5"), and size adapters are available for the hose.  You would pro'bly need two, but they're like $20 USD each and would deliver LOTS of heated air.  Place them anywhere in the line where they would fit.

https://www.amazon.com/Rule-Ma...icient/dp/B0746H25XX

And MUSB:  Somehow a plaid, electric "Granny Blanket" doesn't have the panache of a gas heater.  Cheap?  Yes.  Effective?  Yes.  Overly complicated and fab'd by an OCD pseudo-Engineer?  Definitely not........  And does that blanket come with a fire suppression system?

The issue is that even with the top up (and with the degree of cold we get up here), I don't always get sufficient heat into the cabin, when the heat volume is engine speed based.  Driving the car, I don't always get the chance to stay at high revs for long, if I want to have some regard for speed limits.

Jim:  I do have seat heaters (three settings, no less) and there are two outlets that I asked Henry to install, so an electric blanket for the wife was always in the plan.  That was an idea I got from you when the car was being built- thanks.  But I can't see me using one - how manly would that be?  

Ray:  The Davis system of fresh/heated air needs to be done during construction, as it's not a very easy retrofit, as I understand.

Gordon:  Your idea might work, as that set up is small enough.  I've already mentioned it to my shop, and I might pursue it more.

The weirdest thing about my car, is that during a cold rain, the engine for some reason cools right down, even to below its normal operating temp (180), so I get even less hot air.  Rain water does not get into it from the top, so it must get sprayed from below or something.

Oh, well, it's a great car to drive regardless.

Humid air cools a hot engine better, so on a rainy day there will be an evaporative effect on the cylinder fins and cool the heads better.  Wish I had paid more attention in my thermodynamics class.....

MusbJim posted:

In the Bizarro world of MUSBJIM, where there's an easy non-complicated solution for most of your Speedster ills, I humbly (re)submit this solution. An $18 12-volt electric blanket (from Walmart) that you plug into the auxiliary power outlet of your car.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ele...mp;wl13=&veh=sem

Big enough to spread over you & your right-seaters' lap. Combined with wearing a nice  cozy jacket & hat plus a wool scarf around your neck (plus the heated seats of your IM)...Voila, cozy top-down cruising! 

Quit rubbing it in Jim. You know it only gets to the low 70's in Southern California. Bwaaaa Haaaaaa!!!

In the Bizarro world of MUSBJIM, there are no f*cks (ZERO) to be given for what others may think of how I look, what I wear, what I drive or what I use to for warmth. This has been my mantra in the 135,000+ miles I have enjoyed cruising on the road in my Speedster(s).   

That's the beauty of this Speedster community! There are various solutions to every need!  

Shoot.....  I'm with you, JIm.   If I cared about what others thought, would I be seen in public in a get-up like THIS?

That's "Spaceman Spiff" and his side-kick Gort....  

That's what you look like as a "Hard-Core Biker Type" (no, the OTHER kind of Biker).

But it's safer (and less obvious) when you travel in a pack - At least you fit in:

No real bears were injured in the taking of that Photograph.  Fish, neither...

I have  the Davis info sheet if you want to inveatigate Bob

Gordo, aka Gort: I did pay attention in thermo class. Unless you are ingesting actual liquid water into the fan, you will not get any evaporative effect from just humidity.  And I do not think the heat transfer properties of air change much as a function of RH, but I'll look that up.

Skippy, the gas heaters only use 3 ounces or so per hour. So that is nowhere near enough to worry about, wherever you tap into the fuel. I tried to get that point through to Mr. Drake, but he put in a separate small lawnmower type fuel tank anyway. A simple T with a small takeoff for the heater will completely suffice.

For years I had an old Eberspacher BN-2 like Gordon has. That went to Cory Drake. It came out of my old car.

For the new car, I purchased a new Webasto Airtop. That thing is tiny, only a foot long and 5" square. It fits almost anywhere in a replica. I paid about $1000 but you can sometimes find them for around $700 new. I WOULD NOT BUY A RUSSIAN OR CZECH KNOCKOFF. Be careful, most run on diesel. A gasoline(benzin) model costs more, but it simplifies things with fuel, at least for me. It is the cat's meow.

Also, carbon fiber electric seat heaters are pretty inexpensive. The labor to put them in costs more. But they work quite nicely, especially if they are in the base and seatback. We did our own, Michelle and I. It wasn't too hard really.

For the record, I may have the only Spyder that has seat heaters, heat and actual working windshield defrost vents.

And I don't care what Jim Ignacio wears or uses for heat. He's a cool dude to me no matter what anyone says.

Quick look would show that the diff of air properties (all at 100C ) between 0%RH and 100%RH, would have the heat transfer over the fins  be about 25% more effective at 100% than 0%.  So, all else equal, moist air is a better HT fluid than dry air.  I should add that the effect is greater the higher the bulk temperature of the air, with little difference at 0 C, where of course there is a whole lot less water vapor per cubic ft of air than at 100 C.  This would be absolute best possible case, and assumes the air is either all dry throughout or all wet throughout.  Clearly of you take 80 degree air at 100% RH and run it through your fan and cylinders, it will emerge hotter, and hence at a lower RH.  The 25% augmentation number quoted assumes RH is 100% throughout, which it could never really be, absent any water addition -- which there is not. In the real world, and I'm just estimating here, the relatively humid ambient air will work better than the relatively drier ambient air, but likely the net effect would be less than 10%.  what really counts for air cooled engines, as you all know, is the ambient air temperature (duh!!) and the density, i.e., altitude, with hot, high air being the worst.

Yeah, TMI . . .

... 80 F and 100% RH -- isn't that where Lane lives??

The funny thing is, cool temperatures do not affect the engine temperature as much as rain does. 

The engine gets up to heat on a cool day, but not a rainy day.

You lost me at RH. Isn't that something to do with blood LOL!

And THAT, my friends, is why I hired Engineers to know this stuff, rather than becoming one and having to learn how to manipulate all that math, myself - That math always gave me headaches.  Nothing against Engineers (notice that I capitalize that out of utmost respect) because I would never have had a totally interesting job without them, but they never give a simple answer (although I am sure that Kelly believes that his answer was really "simple", and it was!)

So, to paraphrase (at my own peril and no offense intended, Kelly, but I always had to translate "Engineering Speak" from my guys and gals for the suits.....)

"Hot, moist air will cool air-cooled metal cylinders 10% better than cold/cool, dry air and THAT is why Bob Carley loses cockpit heat when it's raining out in cold, damp Canada in November.   His engine is running cooler and supplying less exhaust heat, because it is getting a constant supply of water vapor blown onto the cylinders by the fan."

Or, it's just damp and clammy out and "chillin' ya to da bone!" as my granmudder used to say.

So think of it like this:  The rain is really water vapor by the time it gets to the cylinders, and it mixes with the ambient air to increase the relative humidity (RH) of the cooling air.  The rate of evaporative cooling is driven by the relative humidity (RH) to a greater degree than by temperature. But, in fact, the two are inter-related. As the temperature of air is increased (by the cylinders), it can absorb more liquid and, therefore, the relative humidity is decreased. Lower relative humidity promotes faster drying which, as you remove the humidity from the cylinders, it takes heat with it.  (I have been accused, in the past, of getting this Bass-Ackwards, but I'll let Kelly sort that out).

And for the suits:  It has something to do with the evaporative effects of water interacting with a hot surface, and the transfer of thermal energy to convert water to a vapor, but let's not go there, just accept it.....for now.  (Magic happens there, and it doesn't cost you anything - that's all you need to understand.)  { Lots of head nodding from the suits.... }

El Frazoo posted:

Quick look would show that the diff of air properties (all at 100C ) between 0%RH and 100%RH, would have the heat transfer over the fins  be about 25% more effective at 100% than 0%.  So, all else equal, moist air is a better HT fluid than dry air.  I should add that the effect is greater the higher the bulk temperature of the air, with little difference at 0 C, where of course there is a whole lot less water vapor per cubic ft of air than at 100 C.  This would be absolute best possible case, and assumes the air is either all dry throughout or all wet throughout.  Clearly of you take 80 degree air at 100% RH and run it through your fan and cylinders, it will emerge hotter, and hence at a lower RH.  The 25% augmentation number quoted assumes RH is 100% throughout, which it could never really be, absent any water addition -- which there is not. In the real world, and I'm just estimating here, the relatively humid ambient air will work better than the relatively drier ambient air, but likely the net effect would be less than 10%.  what really counts for air cooled engines, as you all know, is the ambient air temperature (duh!!) and the density, i.e., altitude, with hot, high air being the worst.

 

Yeah, TMI . . .

You speak my language, Kelly.

In layman’s terms: RH is Relative Humidity, a number which is determined by the total water content in the air as a percentage of what would be needed for saturation (all the water air can hold) at a given temperature.

Hotter air has the capacity to hold a lot more water, so a given amount of water in the air will have a higher RH number at a lower temperature, which is why dew forms on surfaces on a cooler (but humid) summer morning. 

Everybody talks about 100° and 100% humidity, but even very, very humid climates like Charleston will have RH numbers under 50% in the heat of the day.

Anyhow, in order for the moisture to have more than negligible effect removing cylinder head heat in an air-cooled engine, it would really need to be a liquid boiling off into a vapor, which requires an enormous amount of heat to accomplish (because of something called the latent heat of evaporation). Even 99% RH isn’t going to do much.

But spraying water on the heads would be a very bad idea. One could never spray all sides equally, so there would be hot spots and cold spots in the same casting, which would crack the heads, almost for sure.

So back to the original question, I think it would be much more effective to spray a remote oil cooler with water. Oil is also a cooling medium in an air-cooled engine, and large quantities of cool oil circulating through the internals can only help. It’d take significantly less water to fo it, and have significantly less risk of doing something bad. 

Running 10.6:1 C/R, it’s something I’ve given some thought to. 

So might not rain splashing onto Bob Carley's front-mounted oil coolers have a similar effect?

Gordon Nichols posted:

So might not rain splashing onto Bob Carley's front-mounted oil coolers have a similar effect?

Absolutely.

Also, the moisture in the air would acts as a poor-man's water injection, which slows the progression of the flame front in a hot cylinder and reduces the tendency of pre-ignition. My car runs fabulously when there is cool, moist air entering the carbs, as does yours, his, and anybody else using carburetors. 

Yes, my car runs great in cooler air - a nice evening run is a lot of fun - even with fuel injection.  All of my past cars have done the same.  I would assume that's the whole idea behind cold air intake setups. 

But, getting back to my issue, the engine thermostat shuts off oil to the two oil coolers below 180, and sends the oil forward beyond 180, to try to maintain a constant temperature.  (But even with two oil coolers, I need to turn on the oil cooler fans a lot of times in hot weather, even when moving briskly).

Back to my issue with a heavy rain, the problem is that the engine doesn't even get up to 180, so it's not an issue of the oil coolers cooling the oil too much in a heavy rain. 

The oil doesn't head out to the coolers, as the engine can't reach normal operating temperature to send the oil forward, so that is not the problem. 

The engine stays below operating temperature, and hence, not much heat gets to the passenger compartment. 

I'm thinking the really moist air gets sucked into that massive axial fan and cools the cylinders pretty effectively. 911s don't have shroud flaps and a thermostat, which would explain the cool running, at least partially.

... plus water is spraying up from the bottom. 

Amazing, the knowledge base of this group! I learn something new every time I visit this site. 

With my aircooled IM the fall crisp weather was always the time the engine seemed to be just purring purfectly

MusbJim wrote: "Amazing, the knowledge base of this group! I learn something new every time I visit this site."

That's true.  And some (maybe a small percentage) of what you learn is actually useable in every day life!   It's all great stuff, though, for sitting around the bonfire with a beer (maybe several) and some friends, watching the stars above the desert and then just dropping something like, "Hey!  Did you know why relative humidity decreases with higher ambient temperatures?"  And then you watch as the other bonfire-ers start to glaze their eyes over and sip more beer, while their upward gaze intensifies.....

Hmmm . . . Not sure Gordon really got the message.  He still wants to get some sort of evaporative effect out of "moist" air at high RH.  Once it's vapor, the heat of fusion has been spent elsewhere, and is not available to you.  I have assumed no patent liquid water enters the fan and cylinder fin plus oil cooler fin arrangement.  And cool moist (high RH) air is not going to display as much effect as hot moist air at same RH.  I tried to explain that the augmentation effect on heat transfer properties of the air is nearly non existent at cooler temperatures. My quick look comparo was done at 100C, where the data I have shows the largest change in properties.

Water splashing on oil cooler fins is a whole other story.  Here much augmentation vs not raining would be expected. And of course, road water splashing on the engine case, which is also finned as you must have noticed, would be a big effect too.  If you can get the water to boil off of the heated surface, you have entered a whole new realm for heat transfer, orders of magnitude above just plain air, regardless of RH.

Another item: mention was made of using water to cool an air cooled engine. Hmmm, WTF is that?  Not really sure.  Aside from a closed system with a radiator (air-to-liquid heat exchanger) if you lived in the desert where temps get to be very high (100 F +) and RH gets to be really low (10% or less), You could spray a very fine mist of water into the air stream just ahead of the fan.  This water would evaporate at the local dew point thus cooling the air to that temperature.  Could be 60F -- I'll have to look that up.  Out west, they call such arrangements used to air condition homes swamp coolers.  The air that results is much cooler, and also much higher RH. 

Don't know if you can still buy canvas bags to hold water that you would hang out the window of your car when traveling down rte 66 in New Mexico.  Used to be on every car out west. The bags would allow a little water to seep out through the weave, said water would evaporate in the hot dry air, and the bag, hence the water inside, would be cooled to close to the dew point.  Its like the claim that Tucson sure is hot, but it's a DRY heat, meaning that your sweat readily evaporates, cooling your skin considerably, so you do not feel so hot. You skin will feel the dew point, mostly, not the actual air temperature.

And of course these systems are open loop -- they use up water. Not sure you could or would want to carry enough water in your Speedster to use this method to keep engine cool.  And that canvas bag is going to need filling up regularly.

And lastly, for those who want to drive their air cooled Speedsters in cold, damp and rainy Canada, I really have no answer for you. Wear more clothing. Swap in a Suby, eh?

So take the concept of the canvass bag full of water (and on Model Ts and As it was just hung in front of the radiator to cool the engine) and use the same concept in a wetted mesh material, formed into a cylinder, that hung outside of the car to force air through it and into the car’s cockpit and that became the “Swamp Coolers” that were all the rage on VWs in the ‘60’s that were “Po-Boy” car air conditioners.  Look ‘em up!

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1...8NrfuiBoCOSUQAvD_BwE

No shyt??!!  How much water to carry??  Not going to work worth a plug nichol over here on the least coast, as humidity is almost always too high.

PS, said I would look it up: at 100F ambient air temp,  dew points are:

80% RH -- 93F    50% 78F    20% RH -- 52F    10% -- RH 34F

El Frazoo posted:

Another item: mention was made of using water to cool an air cooled engine. Hmmm, WTF is that?  Not really sure.  Aside from a closed system with a radiator (air-to-liquid heat exchanger) if you lived in the desert where temps get to be very high (100 F +) and RH gets to be really low (10% or less), You could spray a very fine mist of water into the air stream just ahead of the fan.  This water would evaporate at the local dew point thus cooling the air to that temperature.  Could be 60F -- I'll have to look that up.  Out west, they call such arrangements used to air condition homes swamp coolers.  The air that results is much cooler, and also much higher RH. 

Don't know if you can still buy canvas bags to hold water that you would hang out the window of your car when traveling down rte 66 in New Mexico.  Used to be on every car out west. The bags would allow a little water to seep out through the weave, said water would evaporate in the hot dry air, and the bag, hence the water inside, would be cooled to close to the dew point.  Its like the claim that Tucson sure is hot, but it's a DRY heat, meaning that your sweat readily evaporates, cooling your skin considerably, so you do not feel so hot. You skin will feel the dew point, mostly, not the actual air temperature.

And of course these systems are open loop -- they use up water. Not sure you could or would want to carry enough water in your Speedster to use this method to keep engine cool.  And that canvas bag is going to need filling up regularly.

And lastly, for those who want to drive their air cooled Speedsters in cold, damp and rainy Canada, I really have no answer for you. Wear more clothing. Swap in a Suby, eh?

Cold, damp and rainy Canada? You must be thinking about the left coast. Up here in the greater Toronto area (GTA), we're suffering through 100+ F with the humidity for weeks and need rain badly; June was a scorcher like it was in much of the US East coast. Right now it's a relatively cool 90F and the humidity has mercifully dropped. Our cottage lake is down a good 6-8" from normal this time of year.

No cold, damp or rainy in sight  .... actually calling for rain next weekend so hopefully.