Is 1915cc enough?

I run a 1776 with 4.12 R&P in my CMC Speedie, which tips the scales at 1940 lbs. My "seat of the pants" dynamometer" says it's 70-80 hP. My car won't win any races, but it's a blast to drive on the twisty cow paths that line the hills of southwestern Pennsylvania. I'm not fond of taking it on the interstate. With my tires, 70 MPH reads 3500 RPM on the tach I'm uncomfortable driving that slow because people whizz right by. I read somewhere that you're 6 times more likely to be in an accident when traveling 10 MPH faster or slower than the majority of traffic. 

those 2110s are in a sweet spot performance wise..had a 2332 and its alot of engine to worry about

The good news is that VMCs engines are built well (by Greg), so a "110 hp 1915" really should be a 110 hp engine. It matches very nicely with a stock geared transaxle.

The bad news is that it may not be the engine, but the transaxle that you find to be inadequate. A 4.12:1 final drive with stock 1-4 really only gives you 3 gears (first is so tall as to be very nearly useless for anything but a drag race or pulling another car out of the ditch). The engine will feel really, really "snappy" up to about 50 mph-- but revving down the highway, you'll find yourself wishing almost immediately for a 5th gear

.... and that's where it all starts. You can get a 4-speed which is much more usable in modern traffic, but then you need the engine to pull it. Greg understands this, which is why his 2332 is offered as a package with the longer custom-geared transaxle. I suspect that his 1915 would easily pull a stock-ratio transaxle with a 3.88:1 R/P, which might make you happier all around. You may want to discuss this as an option.

You can get a 5-speed in a few years (and believe me-- if you want one today, it'll be a few years until you actually get one). I was once told that I had spent many, many thousands of dollars building ever more powerful engines because I couldn't face up to the fact that what I really had was a transaxle problem. It was true. The transaxle problem can be overcome with brute force, but as you are finding-- it's an expensive proposition.

I'll always be the guy who thinks that "more" is more, so I'm a poor person to be answering this question. The happiest people on this site are those who have either accepted the limitations of the platform (I'm looking at you @MusbJim), or who have geared around them (*cough* @Sacto Mitch *cough*). Blunt force works (and works very well)-- but it makes the car into something else altogether. I've actually built 3 engines in a row trying to inch back just enough from the hairy-chested route and into the sweet-spot of something more civilized.

I know you "just want to cruise", but you may find yourself wanting more from the car as you fall deeper in love with it. In truth, it's happening already.

My advice and a dollar will buy you coffee at most McDonald's in the midwest, but I've always thought that everybody is entitled to my own opinion, so here it is: I'd get the 1915 and a stock ratio transaxle with a 3.88. If it's adequate, then you've saved many thousands of dollars. If it's not, you have something nice to sell.

  The 4.12 ring&pinion will create a fairly short 1st gear which, unless you're drag racing or really like ripping around town from stop light to stop light, you may find annoying. Think old VW Beetle or mid '50's-early 60's pick up trucks where 1st just gets you going and it's time to shift before you're half way across the intersection.  As Stan said, a longer 3.88 r&p will probably be more fun.  The cost to substitute the 3.88 for the 4.12 (with everything else being the same) should only be 300-$400.

Do you know what the specs are for the 1915?

PS- Bob makes a very good point- a 2110 is a very sweet engine in a Speedster- enough power but easy to take care of!

Vintage Motorcar 1915 with the "Freeway Flyer" tranny set up.

0 Complaints

Third opinion here to upgrade the transaxle to a 3.88 R&P and .89 4th gear which are stock Karmann Ghia ratios. With the 1915 spec'd as you describe you'll have snappy acceleration and a reasonably good highway gear, and he shouldn't charge much (if anything) for the change. Do not let him or anyone talk you into a 4.12 R&P with a .82 4th. That combo will suck the joy out of your life.

To my mind, 90-130 HP is perfect for these cars on these chassis. It gives you just a little more grunt than grandpa had in 1956, but not so much that you're fighting a constant, losing battle against the suspension's limitations.* The air-cooled engine has the sound and smell of what you're trying to mimic, and it looks right when you lift the rear deck lid. Plus you get to learn how to set your own valve lash and clear the occasional clogged idle jet.

All but a few of the men on this board will advocate more power. Just because. There is only one Stan, but many guys here started out with a 1600 or 1776 engine and upgraded, some more than once. As ALB says, a 2110 from CB Performance with 150 HP at 5500 RPM is a popular engine.

There is a reason they call it "The Madness."

Some owners go from the 1915 to a 2.5 Subaru. That's a big step—and pricey—but, once the hook is set and you're fully committed to the Speedster lifestyle, 180 horsepower that you hardly need to bother looking at can be a real motivator.

My nominally experienced** advice: Get the gears changed and buy the 1915, drive the car for two or three years and see what you think.

==

*Then you find yourself chasing after rack and pinion steering conversions, Mendeola suspension kits and eventually full-on 911 parts. . . .

**I have a 2.2 Subaru-powered MG, and I find its 140hp a bit much for the chassis, and its wide, flat torque curve a bit boring. I also have a Spyder with a 120-horse 1915 which I am just now sorting. So far, so good.

Be advised that the engine size isn’t the only factor regarding performance.  When I bought my Beck in 2006 they offered two standard engines - both 1915cc.  One was a standard, low maintenance build rated at 90hp, while the other was souped up and rated at 125hp, with potential for more.  Heads, carbs, cam, etc. make a big difference.  I was quite happy with my  HiPo (🤣) 1915.  I had a 3.88 r&p and (I think) a 0.89 4th.  Yeah I was spinning at 3500rpm at 70, but the engine felt great.  It even felt better/smoother at 4000rpm/80.  Your mileage may vary, of course.

3500 at 70mph sounds like a 4:12 R&P to me, but I have 16” 205/50 wheels - that’ll make a difference.   I have a 3:88 (I measured it) and a .89 4’th (measured that, too) and I’m running a shade under 3200 at 70.

@TwinCitiesSpeedster posted:

VM rates their 1915cc at 110hp. Their next step up is the 2332cc they rate at 145hp. This would be about a $4,500 upgrade if I opted for different gearing or $2,500 for the engine alone. Seems like a lot for 35hp. I wonder how much the 1915cc could be modified to push out more power?

That 35hp is over a 30% power increase over the 110hp 1915cc. Still think it's a lot of money for little gain?

Answer on the 1915 power improvement: Not much without spending serious cash.

"I live in the cities and have to do a little bit of highway cruising to get out of town, but I plan to primarily cruise backroads and city streets." - @TwinCitiesSpeedster

Based on your statement, the 1915 with 3:88 (freeway flyer) is all you need. Subsequently, no need to spend $$$ on superfluous modifications.

Like @thedak I, along with a host of others, also have a 1915, mild cam, 40 idf Kadrons, 3:88 Freeway Flyer and A-1 Sidewinder exhaust.  This is a daily driver for me. Easily cruises at highway speed all day.

Your only real problem will be waiting for your bad boy to be competed and in your garage!

@thedak you can probably share your driving experience in your 1915 from VM as you have the same set up that @TwinCitiesSpeedster just ordered through me.  Personally I find the 1915 that Greg Builds to be plenty of fun for most but I understand the "wanting more" concern as well.  The 4.12 ring and pinion with the .82 4th gear really seems to be a great combination in my opinion allowing for cruising at 75 mph no problem but also plenty of pep and pull in 2nd and 3rd.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

3500 at 70mph sounds like a 4:12 R&P to me, but I have 16” 205/50 wheels - that’ll make a difference.   I have a 3:88 (I measured it) and a .89 4’th (measured that, too) and I’m running a shade under 3200 at 70.

An old stock Beetle ran 165SR15 or 165/80R15(25.4" diameter). If you ran a 195/65R15(25") it would run 59 mph while reading 60(about 1.6% smaller diameter).

A lot of guys run 195/60R15(24.2"), which is extremely close to Gordon's 16"(24.1") combo. Almost imperceptible speedo difference there.

Great tool:

https://tiresize.com/comparison/

@edsnova posted:

Third opinion here to upgrade the transaxle to a 3.88 R&P and .89 4th gear which are stock Karmann Ghia ratios. With the 1915 spec'd as you describe you'll have snappy acceleration and a reasonably good highway gear, and he shouldn't charge much (if anything) for the change. Do not let him or anyone talk you into a 4.12 R&P with a .82 4th. That combo will suck the joy out of your life.

To my mind, 90-130 HP is perfect for these cars on these chassis. It gives you just a little more grunt than grandpa had in 1956, but not so much that you're fighting a constant, losing battle against the suspension's limitations.* The air-cooled engine has the sound and smell of what you're trying to mimic, and it looks right when you lift the rear deck lid. Plus you get to learn how to set your own valve lash and clear the occasional clogged idle jet.

All but a few of the men on this board will advocate more power. Just because. There is only one Stan, but many guys here started out with a 1600 or 1776 engine and upgraded, some more than once. As ALB says, a 2110 from CB Performance with 150 HP at 5500 RPM is a popular engine.

There is a reason they call it "The Madness."

Some owners go from the 1915 to a 2.5 Subaru. That's a big step—and pricey—but, once the hook is set and you're fully committed to the Speedster lifestyle, 180 horsepower that you hardly need to bother looking at can be a real motivator.

My nominally experienced** advice: Get the gears changed and buy the 1915, drive the car for two or three years and see what you think.

==

*Then you find yourself chasing after rack and pinion steering conversions, Mendeola suspension kits and eventually full-on 911 parts. . . .

**I have a 2.2 Subaru-powered MG, and I find its 140hp a bit much for the chassis, and its wide, flat torque curve a bit boring. I also have a Spyder with a 120-horse 1915 which I am just now sorting. So far, so good.

I'll step up here in #4 position with another recommendation you go with the 1915 + the Freeway Flyer 3.88.This Xmas will be 12 years since I picked up my VS Clown Car and "satisfaction" doesn't come close to describing how I feel about it. Yeah, I know, there's only 22,000 miles on the clock but I've never babied her and she just keeps going like that Energizer Bunny. I had those 1915 cc's on a Dyno about 4 years ago and the printout said I was still getting 99 horses out of it. I'm pretty sure my own"engine" will give out well before the car's does! So, if you truly want to "cruise," along with the occasional "do what a race car (albeit replica) is meant to do," you won't go wrong with the VS Freeway Flyer 1915.

@thedak- The term 'freeway flier' is somewhat deceptive in that it means such different things to so many people- can you tell us the r&p and 4th gear numbers in yours?

PS- @edsnova wrote- "Do not let him or anyone talk you into a 4.12 R&P with a .82 4th. That combo will suck the joy out of your life."

What Ed said- widening the 3-4 spacing is one of the worst things you can do to your car.  There are guys here that have done it and will attest to how wrong it is.

3:10 - 1

1:93 - 2

1:21 - 3

0:82 - 4

3:88 - R/P

I'm running a 1915 with duel 40 dells that I built and I've thought about upgrading but after running in the mountains it performed just fine. My transaxle setup is IRS from a 1975 Bug with original gearbox.

Mike's ratios should be 3.78, 2.06, 1.26, and 0.93 gears. All stock '75 Bug. That works well with 3.88 final.

Glad to see you post on here Mike, it could have turned out so different.

For reference, I really like 3.78, 2.06, 1.30, .93. No big holes. With a 3.44, 70 mph is 3000 RPM. With a 3.88, 70 mph is 3500 RPM.

These ratios won't break the bank.

No, they won't. The only rare gear is third, all others are stock VW except the 3.44 R & P.