Is a sway bar recommended for the front suspension?

My Spyder seems to handle well enough in autocrosses, but I keep hearing of other cars with sway bars fitted to their front ends. What exactly will would it buy me in the way of performance handling?
John

John,

Sway bars and Spyders are almost the start of a religious war.... Chuck Beck generally takes the positon that a sway bar is a hinderence on a Spyder replica as he built them. And anybody who has ever ridden with Chuck in one of his Spyders will understand what he means. I have seen him entirely trash and beat badly, as walk away from "true sports cars" costing many many times the price of a Spyder, with far better performance technically speaking, all done without a sway bar. I suspect that in standard form without swaybar a Spyder will perform at about 90% of its true and full capacity. I also think that a skilled and experienced driver, such as Chuck, will beat me everytime, with or without a swaybar....so, if I were going to compete I would be taking a lot of driving courses and spending a lot of practice time on the track.

As to the sway bars, they will "help". But, be prepared to also add a z bar to the rear end, spend a lot of time testing, plan to change spring rates, shock absorbers, ride height, corner loading, tires, rim offset, alignement, etc etc etc.....I would recommend making the sway bar adjustable as there is no body of knowledge that says a good starting point is.....and what works well on a Speedster or VW bug or formula V, does not work well on a Spyder....I am aware of a couple of Spyders with substantial suspension "improvements". While they might be faster in a true out and out road race or autocross, my best improvement still lies in learning better driving skills and practice.

How close are you to where you want to be on autocross times, who is beating you, what are they driving, how much experience do they have versus you, are you spinning out frequently, or do you push on the corners, do you have LSD???? By the way, at least one guy I know says LSD helped his autocross times more than anything else he has done...

I totally agree with Jim on most of what he has said. That being said you should be able to pick up a used bug sway bar for $25.00 or less so if you really want to give it a try throw one on and go for a ride. I ended up putting one on my Vintage after about a year and a half owning it and was happy with the change however I could have lived with it either way.

Thanks for the great advice guys! I think I will pick up a used sway bar and give it a try if they're that cheap.
John

Jim,
That's some of the best advice I have seen dispensed in a long time.
-=theron

Thanks for the good words Theron....I have been down that path myself and have spent many many $$$$ on marginal changes that may help or make handling worse. I ended up spending all my time working on the car and doing little driving. When it was all said and done I discovered the best improvement I could make was in the nut behind the wheel...there were big improvements to be had there...and much smaller improvements to be made with sway bars, super shocks, custom coil over springs in lieu of the torsion springs, corner loading, several different tire sets, tire pressures, etc etc....it is a lot more fun to take a driving course than it is to rework your entire suspension.....and I got more out of it by far too.. now if I were paying the bills by racing (is that an oxymoron?)I might have to do the sway bar and all the rest, but I am not paying the bills that way. By the way, I have 40,000kms on this car (Spyder) and no sway bar...haven't spun it yet, it drifts around corners dirt track style and you can steer it with your right foot....now the 2 Speedsters I had were a bit different story...go to oversteer (instant spin)in a heartbeat....had to do some work on those....

Nicely put Jim!
angela

I had problems with my Beck in that under very hard cornering, my outside tires rubbed excessively. I bought a 3/4" bar from Aircooled.net and found that the beam gusseting to the frame interfered with the installation. I still prefered the more supple ride of the spring rate I had so I had Schroeder custom machine me a new 3/4" torsion bar as well as aluminum offset torsion arms. I fabbed the lower bracket and mounted it via aluminum rod ends.(way cooler than the typical angle iron and I bolt). This gives me an adjustable system that looks very cool. I am just now installing it as it's winter here in Michigan. I'll let you guys know how it performs. But for now, it looks very cool. I've also been working on rear suspension travel limiter to delete the need for a Z bar. I never liked those much.

Unfortunately, I've had to put the car up for sale as I'm just running out of time and I have a 71 Pantera that I wnat to start giving more attention... I need 500hp! lol

Happy New Year!

Dale, some photos would be great! I also have the TR and a stock sway bar will not fit without some carving away of brackets on the fram, which I prefer not to do. It sounds like you may have solved the problem already. And in spite of my earlier words regarding sway bars being unnecessary for most of us, I stand ready to try one again, on this car.....

thanks,

Jim

Dale Frye

We should have got together, I sold a 72 Pantera a while back then got the Spyder kit. we could have saved each uther a lot of work.
lol Jerry

Jim: I will get pics up of the pieces next week when I get back in town. Installation is probably a few weeks away. I'll keep you guys in the loop.

Before I decided to sell the Spyder, I was gearing up to make it a track car. I had even started looking upper and lower control arms in the rear mated to an IRS tranny. Unfortunately, to make that work best I would need to do the same up front to be able to keep the roll axis oriented properly and low. Obviously the scope just keeps getting bigger as I then of course need to address chassis stiffness. etc etc etc.

As for the Pantera, It's been in the family since new.

Just too darn many projects and never enough time or money. lol