Is Seduction Motorsports Out of Business?

Did you try calling?

I would if I had their number. But unfortunately the contact webpage is also down

Try calling the owner, Daniel. 480-404-1117.  He has been great at communication over the years.

<daniel@seductionmotorsports.com>

thx

@Seduction Motorsports

Daniel,

Are you having website issues? The site has been down for a week according to some who have tried to get on it.

Haven't heard from Daniel in response to several calls/voice-mails and e-mails over the last couple of months.  Wonder what's up as DV always has been super communicative

Maybe the guys at Vintage, across town know what's up. I hope he is ok.

Thanks.

I still admire the aluminum dash knobs I got from Daniel.

I'm friends with him on Facebook.  I recall seeing a pic of a broken arm a few weeks ago.  I'm not sure if that plays into things.

Unfortunately, I’ve had a build in the works with Daniel now for over a year.   He never proactively contacts me for any build update.  Now after paying 3 of the 4 installments for the build, doubling the estimated build time,  He’s gone completely silent and unresponsive to any inquires. 

Doesn’t look good.  

Daniel, if you’re reading this you owe me a call.  It’s your business and reputation at stake here.  

Blumhardt posted:

Unfortunately, I’ve had a build in the works with Daniel now for over a year.   He never proactively contacts me for any build update.  Now after paying 3 of the 4 installments for the build, doubling the estimated build time,  He’s gone completely silent and unresponsive to any inquires. 

Doesn’t look good.  

Daniel, if you’re reading this you owe me a call.  It’s your business and reputation at stake here.  

Uh oh!

Site still down as of this morning.

FB page still exists but looks like the last post by them was in November of last year.

Really sorry to hear this.  Daniel built some nice Spyders.  Wishing you good luck.

Dang. I hope he's not flaking out. As a guy two years into a single build though, I could totally understand if he is. 

Blumhardt posted:

Unfortunately, I’ve had a build in the works with Daniel now for over a year.   He never proactively contacts me for any build update.  Now after paying 3 of the 4 installments for the build, doubling the estimated build time,  He’s gone completely silent and unresponsive to any inquires. 

Doesn’t look good.  

Daniel, if you’re reading this you owe me a call.  It’s your business and reputation at stake here.  

I'd pay a visit, pronto. A long one day drive to find out....or you can moan and groan here, read through the normal advice and cry later.  Three kinds of people in the world....doers, watchers and those that wonder what happened.

Maybe we can recruit one of our Arizona brethren to swing by the shop and look in the windows? The following members, based on profile information, live near the Seduction Motorsports shop which is located at 3235 N Arizona Ave D7, Chandler, AZ 85225: @dustin, @PaulEllis, @dsrtfox, @Cory McCloskey, and @IMDoug Each of you allegedly lives within 25 miles of the business. Would one of you fine gentlemen please go by Daniel's shop and see what is happening?

Thank you

If I have time today within business hours I’ll swing by. I’ll let you know.

Oy.

This doesn't look good, boys.

I asked one of my cameraman friends here at the station to swing by the address for some recon this morning, since he happened to be in that part of the Valley.

I can only report what he learned, as I wasn't there, and I don't want to expose myself to any legal trouble.

Here's his text to me: 

"A flooring company is now in that office. The flooring company has been there since October and believes that the other company (Seduction Motorsports) moved out probably in September."

He also told me that a "finance guy" was inside the flooring company when he walked in, asking the same kinds of questions about Seduction.

So, that's what we know.  There wasn't any sign of the company in any other suite at that light-industrial address.

I've attached a photo of the entrance to suite D7...

wow

Just......    wow.

Does this make my car more valuable now???

Jus wondering....

He's still on FaceBook - Daniel.  Hope you get your car or $ back.

I have a 2016 Seduction Motorsports and Daniel could not have been easier to deal with.  I think many of us are stunned because Daniel has been very involved in the Spyder replica forums both here and on facebook.   I hope you can work something out to either get your car or your money back.

I would get there now and grab the car in whatever state it was in and take it out of there before the assets are seized and you lose your car. 

Also as Wolfgang says, Daniel is on Facebook.  He didn't post that much on his private Facebook page but he did post once in a while.  The last post is from February 24 2019.  He was more active on some of the car forums there. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/550SpyderReplicaClub/

@VSpyder Greg, maybe you can PM George Perry with some insight.   

Paying a personal visit to the site is sound advice, but, from the above photos, it looks as if the shutdown was well planned and conceived. 

"Grabbing your car in whatever state" may be well-intended advice, but it likely places you in legal jeopardy.  At a minimum, a consultant fee to a local attorney would be a wise investment.    

Cory McCloskey posted:

Oy.

This doesn't look good, boys.

I asked one of my cameraman friends here at the station to swing by the address for some recon this morning, since he happened to be in that part of the Valley.

I can only report what he learned, as I wasn't there, and I don't want to expose myself to any legal trouble.

Here's his text to me: 

"A flooring company is now in that office. The flooring company has been there since October and believes that the other company (Seduction Motorsports) moved out probably in September."

He also told me that a "finance guy" was inside the flooring company when he walked in, asking the same kinds of questions about Seduction.

So, that's what we know.  There wasn't any sign of the company in any other suite at that light-industrial address.

I've attached a photo of the entrance to suite D7...

No surprise at all. Six months the flooring company has been in the location that faithful customers has been patiently waiting for a response from Daniel ?   My , my ...I wish I could afford such behaviour.

Wasn't it Daniel that promoted his " go fund me "  scheme looking for $75 K a while back stating that he'd been vandalized / robbed and had no insurance ? 

Wakey, wakey, I guess.  I'm very sorry to see this happen.  

This is sickening to hear and is even lower than the TN follies. What gets me is that these low production companies  know that they are going belly up yet they continue to represent themselves in a positive light screwing the unsuspecting consumer.  Bottom line is it's best to only deal with established vendors.

I realize it looks bad right now based on the business no longer being at it's previous address. However, he has several posts on his Seduction FB page from November 2018 building a car and getting a couple others registered at the DMV. It is possible, albeit I can be a bit optimistic about some things, that he's moved the shop to smaller quarters, reorganizing, etc and has fallen off the communication trolley. If he has that's bad on his part. If he's closed up and said nothing that is even worse on his part.

I sent him a private message on his private FB account asking if he is okay and if something has happened with the business. I'll let you l know if he responds. On his personal FB page he does show himself in a sling due to having surgery to repair his radius.

Alan Merklin posted:

This is sickening to hear and is even lower than the TN follies. What gets me is that these low production companies  know that they are going belly up yet they continue to represent themselves in a positive light screwing the unsuspecting consumer.  Bottom line is it's best to only deal with established vendors.

Not sure it is always a planned exit to burn people but rather a mis management while they try to live check to check not really knowing how to really run a business.

Dr. Clock;

Is one of those rare birds,  who is up front in all of his business dealings.  We are lucky here to have his business acumen on display here,  and to learn from.

Art

Since we are straight shooters on this forum, we try to see things in a positive light, even when reality says otherwise.  A Google search of Daniel Arizona bankruptcy turns up 1 result for Daniel -------, Mesa, AZ.  This is from an online search company, not the Bankruptcy court.

For anyone who has a dog in this fight, Google Daniel ------- Arizona Bankruptcy.  One of the hits on the first page will be the Bankruptcy Court site.  Choose Arizona as the BK district court you want.  You will need to join the PACER system, which allows you to search and download docs from the filed paperwork.  It takes some time and effort to get through PACER registration, but, short of a personal visit to the BK Court office, it's the only way to get info, register as a claimant, etc.

Best of luck and please keep the group informed if you go this route.

Art posted:

Dr. Clock;

Is one of those rare birds,  who is up front in all of his business dealings.  We are lucky here to have his business acumen on display here,  and to learn from.

Art

 

Dr Clock---definitely goat!  (Greatest of all time).  So generously giving of himself for those of us mechanically challenged.  We are fortunate to have him on this board.

I received word from a very reliable source today that Seduction Motorsport has in fact closed their shop. No word on the unfinished builds yet but if I had an unfinished build in progress I’d get an attorney. Although if he has filed bankruptcy there may not be much you can do now but I don’t know how bankruptcy laws work in Arizona. 

Dang. Sorry to all the customers waiting builds. He did some fine work, by all appearances. 

As of February he was publicly fending off an unhappy overseas customer. Very aggressively, imho.

IMHO a business owner knows when things are dismal and the ship is sinking....What people don't know is that said owners under Bankruptcy law can legally skim cash and pay themselves back for personal loans to the business etc. before going under. ( Liquidating and selling off inventory etc. is a big legal NO)  Again, this is perfectly legal and is known as being an "Insider" and the business owner aka the Insider, must wait a period of six months before filing for bankruptcy. While still iffy that a customer will get any of their monies returned, this is the ideal time to take legal action against the company.

I looked around yesterday and it appears that Mr. DV has disappeared. 

I hate to say this but I wonder if someone broke his arm as a warning? No info/story on the arm break available. Makes you wonder what happened, doesn't it?

I met this ass clown Daniel V. Prior to having my Spyder built a couple years ago. 

He was definitely the smooth talker type and that’s how he was able to get where he was but on the inside he was a true scam/con artist.

And just Incase any of you out there have him money to build a Spyder and didn’t receive one I’m sorry to hear this and your best bet to get any information on his whereabouts would be to contact the builder of ALL Seduction Motorsports fiberglass/tubular chassis’s in Hawaiian Gardens California and also known as Vintage Motorcars.

Every single body/chassis was built by them FYI

Daniel only added all his custom features to the builds.

I met another guy after speaking to Daniel who invested in Seduction Motorsports and was robbed of all his money.

Screwing people over so close to open space in the desert is not a smart move in my opinion.

"Screwing people over so close to open space in the desert is not a smart move in my opinion."

So succinctly put...

Guy posted:

Daniel only added all his custom features to the builds.

*cough* _{diamond pleated upholstery} *cough*

I remember that discussion> Mr. Daniel --------- took tremendous umbrage that anyone, including myself, would be opposed to having diamond pleated upholstery in their 356 or 550.

Panhandle Bob posted:

I remember that discussion> Mr. Daniel -------- took tremendous umbrage that anyone, including myself, would be opposed to having diamond pleated upholstery in their 356 or 550.

"Umbrage" is a polite way of putting it. The dude went apoplectic, and got booted from the FB SOC site. I pretty clearly recollect him calling me a "butthurt keyboard warrior" for pointing out that one particular SEMA creation was a little bit Louis XIV.

I especially liked the 2016 thread (click it, it's a link) shortly after the "diamond pleat incident" when Daniel tried to silence Greg (from whom he was buying bodies and frames) for insinuating that he was just finishing Vintage Spyders and calling them his own creations.

It's not super-hard to sort out the wheat from the chaff, if you hang around here for a while.

I think he was offended as you quoted Louis IV.... while it was Louis XIV .... the X marks the spot  

Well said Stan!

I caught that as you were posting! There's nobody slipping one past you, old buddy.

Well, I might know my french history a bit more than most ...  

My biggest issue is auto correct... I type and the whole sense of the line changes, that kind of help is a pain at times. 

My grandpa told me years ago as kid theses words " You can bullsh-t some of the world part or the time, and the rest of the world the other times, But you can't Bullsh-t the whole world all of the time"

Tab Tanner posted:

My grandpa told me years ago as kid theses words " You can bullsh-t some of the world part or the time, and the rest of the world the other times, But you can't Bullsh-t the whole world all of the time"

You don't live north of the 49th.  

Man that is old Ed..  I need to check your best before label at Carlisle  

Well, I'll be damned.  Ol' Pleat Seat was a con artist, after all. Too bad.  He put out some pretty unusual and very classy stuff, as I recall.  I'm betting he meant well, but shyt happens and when its your ass on the line, even the best of folks can turn ugly.  It's called self preservation.  I have had two such encounters. Many years ago, I wanted to buy a sleep sofa. Found a store in a strip mall, saw the goods, paid some money, and got nothin'  The guy was already in bankruptcy, and turns out, he was going down, and needed cash, so the door was open he was advertising, people were coming in, he was writing worthless orders and cashing the deposit checks.  Until he wasn't.  Never heard of or seen again. a long line of unfulfilled suckers, me included, left at the alter.

In another setting, I happened upon a house for sale that was under foreclosure. Owner was described as motivated to sell. Mid '80s commercial real estate bubble had burst.  Managed to get a contract executed, loan set up, all ready to go.  Settlement Lawyer said all was ready, stop by the office, sign the papers.  Which I did. Lawyer had a long face on when I walked in.  Turns out there were two owners, who used to be friends and business partners,  Second owner held a second mortgage, which was not mentioned at the real estate agent level.  But the title search revealed him.  He was contacted by the bank that was holding the first mortgage and that was administering the foreclosure. Second owner was informed that after the sale the bank would get its exposure covered, and there would be nothing left for him.  He said he'd sign a release of his second mortgage, understanding that the sale contract likely would not yield him any cash for his interest in the property.  On the day of settlement, he understood he would get nothing and decided not to sign off.  Said he wanted money.  So the deal exploded. No settlement.  Go home.  I got this guy's name and number and called him, so we could talk without bankers and lawyers in the room.  My Long story, trying to be shortened:  He explained that the only thing between him and financial ruin and the great abyss was his bankruptcy lawyer, and said lawyer was refusing to work without being paid.  So he, the second owner needed $3,000.  His price to sign off on his mortgage, and clear the title.  Nobody, least of all me had $3000 lying around, having scrapped every dime I had up to get the deal to where we thought it was. We spoke over the phone that night as two guys just trying to make a deal. I convinced him I was an honest SOB just interested in this property as a second home, no monkey business, and I sympathized with his dire position, and we haggled.  At the end of the day, all concerned had enough of the whole affair and really wanted me to get into this property, vs just turning it over to the bank. The two real estate agents agreed to waive their commissions, and the settlement attorney acting in my interest waived his fee, saying that he had already burned through three times the usual amt of time for what he thought was a routine settlement. So, We scrapped up a few thousand extra bucks, sent that $$ off to second owner, he signed off, the title cleared, the bank got its money, and the sale became final.  After all done, I confess to having felt as though I had just been mugged.  But the second owner, a guy with wife and kids, and soon no home, that made off with my money got taken care of, I guess.  Never met him aside from our heart to heart phone conversation, and he was never heard from again.  During our "negotiation" he told me frankly that in the face of getting no money, he was very happy to have the sale fail (screwing me over as collateral damage, sorry about that) , and to have the house foreclosed, sold at auction and that stain to be applied to the reputation of the first mortgage holder, his ex-friend and ex-associate.  If he could screw him just a little more for getting him into this mess in the first place, he'd be very happy with that.  So point of story:

When the wolf is at the door, even the nicest folks can be truly mean.  My bet is DV is in that position.  I'm also inclined to believe that the no insurance break-in and theft story may well have been just BS (or staged??) to stave off the creditors and faithful customers for just a bit longer.  Overall, if I were a short-sheeted customer (which I am not and never was) I'd never forgive him for his deceptions, but I can say that I understand how it came to this.  It would be good to find out what has come of the builds that we assume were in progress.  And also wishing the best for those hurt by this.  Keep us posted.

AS for Louie-Louie, I can't tell you how much beer I sweated out dancing to that song back in school.  It was one of a few songs that was played at EVERY party I ever went to, probably several times a night.  And, as a further  foot note, nobody ever really understood what the words were, aside from Loiue Louie, and we gotta go. So we made up several versions, which I can tell you were pretty raunchy, and will not be repeated here.  Txs Ed, nice throw-back.

https://youtu.be/apbzTFN_vUo

Don't know if this copies through right, but here is a bit more about the lyrics.  Rather long.  I still don't know what he's saying . . .  The bartender's name was Louie . . .

OK, I did it:

Louie Louie

I know, just let it go, but what can I say, Google can be addictive.

www.snopes.com/fact-check/louie-louie/

Who knew??

SO I read the other post from 3 years ago.  My question:  Did Brian Krzanich the guy from Intel, ever get his Pre-A coupe?

Jim Kelly posted:

Since we are straight shooters on this forum, we try to see things in a positive light, even when reality says otherwise.  A Google search of Daniel --------- Arizona bankruptcy turns up 1 result for Daniel ---------, 33, Mesa, AZ.  This is from an online search company, not the Bankruptcy court.

For anyone who has a dog in this fight, Google Daniel --------- Arizona Bankruptcy.  One of the hits on the first page will be the Bankruptcy Court site.  Choose Arizona as the BK district court you want.  You will need to join the PACER system, which allows you to search and download docs from the filed paperwork.  It takes some time and effort to get through PACER registration, but, short of a personal visit to the BK Court office, it's the only way to get info, register as a claimant, etc.

Best of luck and please keep the group informed if you go this route.

Hi Jim, am one of the screwed Seduction Motorsports Clients living in Dubai . I have an unfinished , or never even started car project with Daniel since almost 2 years. As I only had received emails and no images I got worried and now my biggest fears have become reality and even worse. Contacted an attorney in Phoenix by email today and have also tried to register at the PACER system but due to not having a credit card from a US Bankaccount, I can not get any info on the filed paperwork. Once I have more info from the attorney, I will share the info here. With regards to DV I was informed that he moved to California, but no idea where. Will not give up .......

Greetings from Dubai.

Hi Isa,

So sorry to hear of your plight with Seduction Motorsports and Daniel -------.  Almost all of the replica owners on this site have taken the same risks you did, either by having a shop build a new car for them or dealing remotely with an owner who is selling an already-built car.  Fortunately, most of the transactions are completed without drama.  However, when a deal goes bad, it has ripple effects on the whole industry.

I notice from your profile that you are a new member of our site.  I have no idea how many Seduction customers are in the same situation that you are, but the info your attorney discovers will undoubtedly be helpful to them.  I suggest that you start a new thread, either on this site or another car site, that can pool info and resources.  As I'm sure you  know, rumors will circulate about what's going on, and much of it may be incorrect.  You may be able to share the attorney costs if you have other customers in your situation.

Best of luck as you move forward.  On a personal note, I was involved for a few years in a similar situation, as many of our members know.  Hang tough, pal.  Try to remember that, if it's a problem we can solve with money, it's not that big a problem.  Regards, Jim

Hi Jim, thank you for your reply. Yes I have just joined today after I got the info of the bankruptcy. If any other Seduction Customers that are in the same position as me are on this site, please feel free to contact me, so we can move on as a group rather than a bunch of individuals. All the luck is needed to get some clearance of what is going on ....

Under bankruptcy law, the company has protection the consumer has little so it is difficult and nearly impossible for the consumer to be made whole by the BR Court. Seduction clearly knew they were in a down spiral and most likely shifted things around to benefit him but should he have done so as a " Insider" the court will not look at that in a positive light. . Yes do file a claim, should Seduction have anything left of value you might get a small percentage.   I'm sure  @ Jim Kelly  will confirm same.

With effort I figured the BK attorney and got the info that I am registered as a creditor. At least. There is a handful more that i know of so far that are also on the list. So next steps to be taken....find an attorney to get legal support. It is truly devastating especially that I have to deal with this from the distance.

There are four customers that we know of that have paid DV a considerable sum of money towards their builds. There is also one gentleman that DV sold his car (on consignment) and never notified him that the car sold and kept the payment. Closing up shop and continuing to fraudulently communicate with customers that it is business as usual is not protected under bankruptcy laws. The fact that he has waited what appears to be 6 months to file (I do not think he has filed yet) will not be taken kindly by a bankruptcy judge. 

That does it, I'm open for business.

I'd love to build any and all comers a mid-engined, 550 hp turbo Subaru powered Cosworth-built car with 4 wheel steering, a 7-speed sequential transmission, active aero, roll-up windows (bullet-proof glass), and a retractable hardtop in either speedster or spyder trim. The body will be full carbon-fiber with a monocoque tub. I'll upholster it in snake-skin (optional emu) leather (pleated, if you like) and paint it with 147 coats of candy-apple and 98 coats of clear. The paint will be at least 1/8" thick. Color-shifting or stealth-fighter radar-absorbing paint are optional.

Stopping is important, so your car will have carbon-ceramic rotors and monoblock 8-piston Brembos on all 4 corners, with full ABS. Tires are Pilot-Sport Cups on 10" rears and 9" fronts. Bodies can be either standard or ultra-wide body. Interiors can be either retro or full-modern with heads-up display, and lane departure warning systems. All cars will have full dual-zone heating and A/C systems, heated and cooled seats. Memory seats and outside mirrors are optional. It will be hard to fit a power mechanism in a Ray-Dot mirror, but that just shows the lengths I'll go for you!

The car will weigh 1200 lbs, and run 8s in the quarter and lap under 4 minutes on the 'ring.

The car will cost less than $50K, and be delivered in 3 months from the time I start on the build. It's important to remember that lead times are long, and I make several trips a year to research the latest and best tech available. I'll need to go any and everywhere to make your car better-- Rome, the Greek Isles, Cabo San Lucas, Barcelona, whatever it takes.

All I require is a (non-refundable) 85% deposit up front, wired to a numbered account in the Cayman Islands. I can be hard to reach on the phone.

Under BR Law.. He knows very well what he is doing and probably has consulted an Attorney which would explain the Insider clause. The 6 month plus wait to file is done intentionally thus allows for him to have utilized the business "Insider" status to his financial advantage. Retaining payment on a consignment is another ball of wax . BR courts usually are a legal processing mill of sorts that benefit the business however when said business intentionally defrauds, we know where that goes.

Stan, my check is in the mail! ;-)  Please start my new build today! 

Stan, my check is in mail, too, so add me to your growing list of buyers.  

I recently received my 2018 solar rebate for my roof-top solar system and will forward that check for $88,000 - signed over to you, personally.  Once cashed, please send me  check for $38,000 difference, and you keep full $50,000 for the car - Will paying full price before build guaranty place at the top of delivery list?  I hope so. (Thank You)

Also, both snake and Emu are protected animals here, so please quote me cost difference if use Um-Bwee-Bwee bird skins for the interior.  Pleated not necessary.  

If you need  supply of Um-Bwee-Bwee birds, you can visit here in East Zamboogie. 

Best Wishes from your new friend and Future Stanistan Driver

I'm selling my obamaphone on e-craigs baylist to pay for the car. I hear they are collectors items if you have the original plain cardboard box! 

Anyone who is waiting for a car and now not getting one  , mine is going up for sale this weekend.  Vintage Motorsports, 2270 Type 1.  

You gotta laugh, or you'll cry.

The VW and Porsche replicar hobby is populated by a very few good guys, a lot of pretenders, and no shortage of charlatans and thieves. 

Stan Galat posted:

You gotta laugh, or you'll cry.

The VW and Porsche replicar hobby is populated by a very few good guys, a lot of pretenders, and no shortage of charlatans and thieves. 

You are so right , how charlatans and thieves sleep at night bewilders me. Be it in business, employment, hobby or just helping someone out, there's something called honesty and integrity that makes for a sound night's sleep.

Alan Merklin posted:

Stan Galat posted:

You gotta laugh, or you'll cry.

The VW and Porsche replicar hobby is populated by a very few good guys, a lot of pretenders, and no shortage of charlatans and thieves. 

You are so right , how charlatans and thieves sleep at night bewilders me. Be it in business, employment, hobby or just helping someone out, there's something called honesty and integrity that makes for a sound night's sleep.

I think they sleep better than most because they don't have a conscience to keep them up.

Safety Jim Buffalo NY. posted:

I'm selling my obamaphone on e-craigs baylist to pay for the car. I hear they are collectors items if you have the original plain cardboard box! 

Probably worth as much as one of Trump's MAGA hats...

I own a Seduction 550 custom built in 2017. I don't have an insight as to what happened to Daniel, but can say this: (1) I am very happy with the car. Excellent fit and finish. It hauls ass and gets lots of comments. (2) Most of what Daniel told me was not based in reality. Originally he quoted a 6 month build. It took 18 months. Always excuses about the delays and poor communication. (3) I was never late with a payment and unfailingly polite, but Daniel was a very prickly, easily offended guy. Customers shouldn't have to walk on eggshells around him because he is a hothead. I think he is/was a good car builder, but that is not the same as a good businessman, and I suspect he somehow got in over his head and everything went south.

Seems to be a pattern. Guys like their Seduction spyders, based on Greg Leach's product and DW's cosmetic changes. DW could be a prima dona (Sp.?). DW appears not to be either an astute businessman or able to control his emotions. DW screwed over his last customers, and maybe more. 

Sound familiar?

Guess the UK Speedster Replica site needs an update!

http://www.speedsters.com/srs-SMS.htm

The site actually has an excellent summary of past-present world-wide Speedster replica builders!

http://www.speedsters.com/srs-AtoZ.htm

Folks, I really appreciate all support the board members have provided to myself and the other “customers” of Seduction Motorsports.  Going on-site to investigate and in the process finding out DV had actually removed all the assets and left his advertised location months ago was a great help.  

With the information available, it appears there are unfortunately a large number of people who have entered into agreements to have DV build cars on their behalf.  Each likely making multiple installment payments after it was represented to them the builds were making progress towards completion.

I see a large number of you folks listed in the filings.  

Feel free to reach out to me directly if you would like to share your circumstances.   It will be helpful for us consolidate the facts of the case.   I’m happy to share my information with you and your attorneys as well.

Thanks again,

Dan

dan.blumhardt@gmail.com

I hope this real-life soap opera comes to some conclusion eventually, and DV gets tracked down and  put through the wringer -- or worse.  My condolences to all affected.

And what about the "break in"?  Sounds like a put up job to me.

Holy Moly! 

This **** really brings out the " Charles Bronson" in me...

Sounds like some fraud occurred which could be legally argued. Not with Seduction or a purchase as large as a car, I had a person take payment on a job that he never started or finished. He had lost his license to do business months prior and was broke, both with the business and personally. I sued both him and his company (to avoid a bankruptcy dodge) and won judgement but others that he had done the same to, filed criminal charges. That put him in jail, where making license plates isn't a paying job where he can return my money or have wages garnished. I will likely never see a dime of the $5K he owes me.

As someone who has experienced this, I feel awful for those who gave him money. I would love to give you some hope but it is a low probability of getting anything back. If putting him in jail would be some solace, better chances for that.

ExpensiveNoise posted:

There are four customers that we know of that have paid DV a considerable sum of money towards their builds. There is also one gentleman that DV sold his car (on consignment) and never notified him that the car sold and kept the payment. Closing up shop and continuing to fraudulently communicate with customers that it is business as usual is not protected under bankruptcy laws. The fact that he has waited what appears to be 6 months to file (I do not think he has filed yet) will not be taken kindly by a bankruptcy judge. 

5 People I paid in full back in October 2017!!  no 356 Coupe

Hi All,  I paid for a 356 Pre-A  Coupe in October 2017 and nothing,  he has cut off all communication.

Is anyone interested in a larger group lawsuit?  

Very Concerned

Timbo posted:

Hi All,  I paid for a 356 Pre-A  Coupe in October 2017 and nothing,  he has cut off all communication.

 

Is anyone interested in a larger group lawsuit?  

 

Very Concerned

You may want to hire that attorney quickly. He filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy last month in California. There was a meeting of Creditors on 5/20/19. You should have received notice of the bankruptcy filing and the creditor meeting from the Court if Daniel listed you as a Creditor. 

What county did he file BK?

I did it shows a 07/2019 deadline to submit,  but my atty states "good luck getting anything" 

RandyF posted:

What county did he file BK?

In the Central District of California Bankruptcy Court. 

Timbo posted:

I did it shows a 07/2019 deadline to submit,  but my atty states "good luck getting anything" 

You may want to call Greg Leach at Vintage and see if any of your parts made it over there. A few others we told by DV that Greg had parts for their builds. 

Thanks!

I'm no Attorney but know a bit about this process in general terms. They already had a meeting of the Creditors and all that's left in  BK process is the formality of the BK hearing.....Seduction has the protection of the BK court and the Consumer has little if anyway to recover.  From what I have read  it seems Mr.  D planned his exit well, unless someone can prove ".... Intentional Insider actions to hide funds and or assets.

Well I have 3 years of emails, text and facebook messager screenshots showing stalling, fake delays and lies the entire time!   He is personally liable and he "failed to deliver on  these contracts" and intentionally hid this from all of us.  So I suggest everyone to file a personal suit against him

you are completely right ALL whom have not received cars will be screwed as the creditors will suck the business assets dry,  while he can just personally re-start a new scam

I always encourage site participants to conduct extensive research from as many sources as possible, then make a decision based on that research.

I don't have a dog in the Seduction fight, but have been through similar scenarios with an unscrupulous builder, who has been and still is the defendant in a number of civil suits, mainly for non-performance.

Specialty Auto-Works (SAW), the predecessor of Specialty Auto-Sports (SAS), had a judgement against them for approximately $420,000 for failing to build cars for about 20 buyers, all of whom had paid varying amounts of deposits, from about $8,000 to over $40,000.  After the Tennessee state court delivered its judgement, SAW sought bankruptcy protection from the Eastern Tennessee Bankruptcy Court, and the entire amount owing was cancelled by the BK.  Within a few weeks, SAW was out of business, replaced by SAS, with the same guy running the new company, Stephen W. Lawing.

Not only is such behavior lawful, but encouraged by BK attorney sites.  They not only encourage potential clients to seek BK protection, they will tell them ways to increase the money they can keep from creditors immediately before and after the BK petition is filed.

Almost all of us on here are straight shooters.  That doesn't mean that we never step on our appendages, but that we don't live our lives thinking of ways to get something for nothing.  However, the BK process cares little for our spiritual compass or moral outlook, as some BK petitioners well know, especially those who engage in serial filings, i.e., repetitive bankruptcies.

If you think filing a civil suit will be successful, you may want to talk with competent counsel first about costs of suit versus the chance of collection from a defendant who has already filed BK.  If you think you have a chance at bringing criminal charges, do some research and contact the district attorney's office in the county of Arizona where Seduction did business.  They will have a consumer fraud department or can refer you to the appropriate agency for filing a consumer fraud claim.  Many states, like California, have county District Attorneys, who prosecute state criminal matters.  Some of the less-populated states do the same with a state Attorney General.

Please keep the site informed on what you decide.  Shared knowledge increases our ability to fight back.

Excellent post Jim !

Timbo, you can ping me at Dan.Blumhardt@gmail.com if you’d like to compare notes on legal advice.

Tough to know for sure how many builds involved. However based on the named claimants and the amounts in the public filings, you could estimate perhaps 20 or so cars were sold on installment payments and were never delivered. 

So the scale of the situation itself really raises lots of questions about intent in this case. 

My hope is other builders like Greg Leach can now flourish by helping to pick up the pieces and work with former seduction “customers” to keep 550s and speedsters on the streets.    We’re a passionate global community and remain super supportive of our builders.  

Thanks again to all those on the boards who’ve reached out with support and further info!

There is a victims Facebook group as well. Just search for Seduction Motorsports Victims. There is a private messenger group that has also been created by some victims that you can be invited too from the Facebook Group.  

Man this is sad to read and pisses me off. As a reporter I've covered my share of businessmen who pull this sort of thing. Most of them get away with it, time and again. I've long wondered why anti-fraud criminal laws are so seldom enforced in the USA. I don't see that anyone benefits from this—except the guys who make a career out of defrauding customers and investors. 

Glad I never did business with DW. 

Daniel was always an arrogant, self-serving me-me-me kind of guy. But I never thought he'd descend into criminal behavior.

Such a shame. He made some nice parts, I have his shoulder belt bezels on my car.

Never a true builder, he was an assembler that added some custom touches. All "his" cars are really Vintage Motorcar Spyders.

I don't wonder at all how that arm got broken now.

If you look back at his first posts on the SOC, you'll find that there was a great deal of skepticism about his legitimacy at the beginning.  He was challenged over and over to post, or have his new owners post photos of their cars and he just made excuses, like my buyers are too busy for the SOC.  There were lots red flags about him for a long time, including his Go Fund Me page at one one point.  Eventually, he was able to turn that around.  He conned us all. 

DannyP posted:

 

I don't wonder at all how that arm got broken now.

I hadn’t thought about that possibility, but it may explain his quick exit from... apparently planet earth.

I never did any business with him (thank goodness) but at first he seemed decent enough and the billet tchotchkes he made looked good.  Shortly thereafter his arrogance made itself known, but I still was surprised how this all turned out.  I expect it’ll be a while before he crawls out from underneath whatever rock he found.  Those of you who he owes cars and/or money have my sympathies.  I hope you're able to recover something.

Troy, he didn't con all of us. There were a number of people on the site who didn't trust him and didn't purchase any of his products based on that scepticism.

Troy Sloan posted:

If you look back at his first posts on the SOC, you'll find that there was a great deal of skepticism about his legitimacy at the beginning.  He was challenged over and over to post, or have his new owners post photos of their cars and he just made excuses, like my buyers are too busy for the SOC.  There were lots red flags about him for a long time, including his Go Fund Me page at one one point.  Eventually, he was able to turn that around.  He conned us all. 

 

I remember that go fund me page ....something about a break in at his shop and he lost about $75K of uninsured tools and parts. Stuff like that raises a big flag asap. I don't agree that he conned us all. 

I can't imagine how he feels right now. His passion was building high end stuff for nice cars and now he must hide under a rock likely being afraid at every moment. I have no sympathy for him but I just imagine how he must feel.  

When he was broken into, my motor was sitting on the floor waiting to be installed. I'm lucky the thieves, or whomever, didn't take it. It was already paid for.

He also had a stroke not too long after that. He obviously recovered.

Many people go into business and have a dream but do not have the skill set to sustain a business.   These lacks quickly show up with financing and cash flow issues.  

He certainly had his issues, his character, and in the end stiffed a lot of people unfortunately.

Passion is one thing, a proper business plan is another... E-myth

Carlos G posted:

When he was broken into, my motor was sitting on the floor waiting to be installed. I'm lucky the thieves, or whomever, didn't take it. It was already paid for.

He also had a stroke not too long after that. He obviously recovered.

 

What became of your motor, Carlos ?

No shop insurance.  No health insurance.  I’m an insurance agent and I spoke to DV about insurance when I was looking for a Spyder.  He got pissed at me and said Obamacare was out to kill people, all insurance was a rip off and I was a stupid liberal.   

And I was a potential customer.  

Soni bought my Vintage Spyder elsewhere and went about helping people who actually want insurance on their health, business and possessions.  You know, adults. 

Does anybody know if his partner Jessy skipped town as well?  Jessy seemed like a decent guy and was a pretty good mechanic.

I had read that Jessy had become a “partner “ and wonder if he became as corrupt as DV. 

So was this foreshadowing? Whick one is DV?

Guess no more diamond pleated seats?

Smelled like a old fish smell from day one especially when a new business toots their own horn to excessiveness then gets defensive.  Suddenly, his shop was ummm broken into and had no insurance (hello - flag) and then  down the road everyone got screwed in unison ……….. " The honor and integrity of your name should be based sole basis of all your actions "  

@David Stroud IM Roadster D 

My motor was installed into my car and it was eventually delivered to me.

I've been tearing up mountain roads with it since July of 2015.

Carlos G posted:

@David Stroud IM Roadster D 

My motor was installed into my car and it was eventually delivered to me.

I've been tearing up mountain roads with it since July of 2015.

I can certainly attest to that last part.

Carlos G posted:

@David Stroud IM Roadster D 

My motor was installed into my car and it was eventually delivered to me.

I've been tearing up mountain roads with it since July of 2015.

Very happy to hear that, Carlos. 

Newbies stroll in here and ask, who is the best builder?  And often the collective response is: IM, Beck/Special edition, Vintage _________ (Hawaiian Gardens), and JPS. Although the latter is generally followed by a number of mumblings. 

This list doesn’t mean that the other groups don’t build fine cars; I always liked Seduction’s 550. In my opinion, the top three rise to the top because of their proven track record. I assume a majority of folks in the market for a plastic Speedster don’t have $10k, $20k or $30k that they could easily afford to loose. While it’s not a 100% guarantee that the top three shops I listed above won’t steal your money and go out of business, chances are very slim. This is what the smaller builders cannot provide, a sense of security. 

As I thought more about this, there’s only one shop I’d recommend for a new Speedster (or perhaps even used), and that’s Beck / Special Edition.  Why?...for a sound piece of mind.  

One, they build a quality car and have a reputable business. (This is also shared with Henry and Greg). 

Two, they are active with this forum; providing help and direction for various member’s issues. Showing genuine interest to the hobby and those that participate. This is one area where they seem to rise above the others; as the other builders either do not participate on this forum, or aren’t interested in solving member’s particular issues as much as they are pedaling their own products.  

The third reason is that they keep very detailed notes on their builds. No one at VS even knew what the actual color of my car was.  I found SE extremely helpful when looking for a used Beck. I would send them the serial number and within hours would have a honest and thorough response. 

I just saw this: https://www.docketbird.com/cou...cacb-6:2019-bk-13174

I hate to see IM depart the internal combustion engine Speedster scene this year.  In my mind, they have stood out as the number one quality producer.  I won't buy an electric car in my lifetime -- maybe a beach golf car but not a road car.  I want the zoom-zoom sound and the ability to drive as far as my butt can stand.

Ferrari has a patent on a sound replicator of their engine sound

https://instagram.com/gunther_werks_daniel

thetango posted:

https://instagram.com/gunther_werks_daniel

All he has on Instagram is 5 photos, 1 of him (I guess it's him) and 4 of 911s and they all may have been posted long ago.  I'm not sure it's even the same Daniel. 

I can confirm.  Gunther Werks Daniel is Daniel V of Seduction 

The post gave me the impression that he had resurfaced with some new business scheme, but I think that Instagram post has been around for a while.  It has 12,000 followers, but only 5 posts. 

The time stamp on the weeks reunion post is 5 hours ago.  Gunther works just finished that 400R a few months ago.  I have mutual friends with DV.  He is now at Gunther Werks.  Has been for a while. 

Douche hair =douche.

Well at least there is now an address to serve papers at.

A debtor's new business address is of no use to the creditor.  Once a debtor files bankruptcy, the creditor cannot contact him/her, as that contact would violate the Bankruptcy Code, and they could be sued by the debtor.  Contact is limited to the debtor's BK attorney or court-appointed trustee.  I think Daniel filed with the California Central Division, but Google will have all the data.

Creditors already face financial loss, stress and a feeling of abandonment and resentment in a system that is not designed to help them.  The last thing they need is additional legal jeopardy.  My sympathies to all involved.

Gunther Werks CEO and founder is Peter Nam and has been around for a while. Daniel V is just working there even if he gave himself a lofty title.

I was in the mind set as it was stated some time ago a car was on consignment at Seduction and sold, the seller didn't receive the proceeds. Since that sale didn't evolve from Seduction's physical  inventory that is a different can of worms.

Emphasis to Jim's post.

No room for amateurs.  Like a lot of our laws, Bankruptcy law has little to do with common sense and or fairness.  Violating the Bankruptcy code can expose violators to unpleasant experiences, including jail time.

Guys& Gals

I have a few things to say about this issue (I will keep this short) 

I had done a lot of business with DV over the last 7 years with that being said I think i know him fairly well. I know this is a unfortunate situation for all involved so i felt i would shed some light on to what has been going on with some of the builds left to be finished. I have been in touch with most (if not all) of his customers that have builds that need to be finished, I have been working with them one by one to try to salvage there builds and get them on the road,with the help of DV I think we can make most of these customers smile again.  I think this process will take some time as we already have our plate full with current builds but I am pretty confident we can make most of these customers happy.

I have had a few conversations with DV and i don't think it was his intentions to do what he did, I do have almost all of the bodies and frames and lots of parts for builds so i would think if he planned this then most of the customers would have nothing. 

Greg

There is no more honorable, reliable and, in my opinion, better builder and decent guy than Greg Leach.   No surprise whatsoever that he is helping the customers of DV  with their builds, in the hope that all will smile again.   I remain fortunate and delighted that Greg was my builder and have a speedster I couldn’t live without. My thanks to Greg and his team for all they do for all of us

This is very encouraging news! 

Good on ya, Greg!  The industry benefits from what you are doing, as well as individuals who were left in the dark about their chances of recovery. 

Greg, I sure hope you can help these folks with their builds. Hard to fathom someone running up $1MM in debt without having the intentions to do so. Also, it is a bit difficult to stomach him lying to a customer of his about selling their car for them, and keeping 100% of the proceeds of that sale via Bankruptcy. To me, that is theft, not "business". 

In the event not already EMPHASIZED:  Those who are out $$ need to file claims with the Bankruptcy Court.  Filings are time sensitive.  If you do not file before the deadline, and you are not listed as a creditor, you could jeopardize your chances for recovering any of the $$ you are out.  Do the cost benefit thing, how much are you out versus what it will cost to get a claim filed.  Keep in mind, generally, if you don't live in the jurisdiction of the Bankruptcy Court, it may be wise to get some legal advice from a bankruptcy attorney licensed in the jurisdiction.

Life lesson:  Control is an illusion.  We have little or no control over what happens to us.  We have absolute control on how we respond.  Crying time is over.  How you got here is academic, what you do now, can result you getting some CHC (cold hard cash).

Stuff like this sucks.  We all win with more owners, vendors & suppliers. 

Anyone know Chip Saggau from Scottsdale AZ another thief that just got out of prison.He sold many cars that did not belong to him a total of 3.5 Million. He was best friends with Alice Cooper.He is paying $50.00 a month what joke.The good thing is he is on parole for the next 5 years.He got me for $15,000 don’t if I’ll ever see any of it. My email is sportsltdcars@yahoo.com 

Wow what a read. I bought an unassembled 550 from Daniel in December of 16. I found it hard to get ahold of him at times but when I did he was very straight forward and what I figured he was very busy. But my purchase was a collection of parts not a build. I finally gave him a date that I was showing up with a trailer to pick up all my parts. He had all my stuff inventoried and in totes and annotated a few things he was short and owed to me. After I got home I went through every part and he was pretty accurate with the inventory sans a few options I had paid for.  He shipped me all the remaining parts after a couple calls to remind him.  When I picked up my body and parts we talked and my friends and I all agreed he had an opportunity for a successful business but was trying to do everything instead of manage a business. I was convinced he is a detailed passionate builder but should have hired a business manager.  His work was exceptional, he had plenty of orders, but did not have a handle on  managing the success.  Now I’m glad I made away with my entire purchase but I’m truly sorry for those that got stung. It’s unfortunate.  I am finally starting my build after 1 year waiting for delivery and 2 years in storage as I finished other projects. I can’t help but feel that the bins of parts I have were going into someone’s build but I gave him a date and they became mine.  To that theory, he had me wait 2 weeks to get my seats done by his upholstery guy ... I told him I don’t like the diamond pattern and he was good with that. Go figure.  I was always polite with him and he with me ... he was just buried.  I wish he’d been successful. 

Life lesson - do business with a long established company. 

At least, the odds might be more in your favour.

As covered in previous posts, any one who commissions a build takes on a substantial financial risk.  If you can't absorb a financial loss equivalent to the total cost of the build, it may be wise to look for an already built car.

Once you make that first progress payment, you're locked in.  Sometimes it has nothing to do with malice, people die get sick, bad suppliers.  Scary stuff.

Presuming Seduction will file or has filed for bankruptcy protection, the presiding Bankruptcy Court will have to approve all transactions in the preceding 90 days before the filing date and going forward. 

As previously stated, get an attorney.  Bankruptcy protection means among other things, you can go to prison if you violate Bankruptcy law.

@Davros99

I'm sure any help you need with your build you can get either here or at spyderclub.com. I've put two Spyders together(mostly), the second more than the first.

Any parts you need either Greg at Vintage or Carey at SE/Beck are your go-to guys.

Greg made your body and frame anyway, even though DV thinks he was a "builder". Yeah, he had some custom touches but he finished and sold Vintage Spyders as his own creation.

I believe Seduction already filed for and settled the bankruptcy already. 

http://classiccardb.com/replic...-bespoke-outlaw.html

Seduction Motorsports SM550 Spyder Pre-Order “Rolling” or “Turnkey Package” Please read before bidding. This auction is to pre-order the construction of your very own built SM550 Spyder. The price is based off the standard vehicle features in which we have standardized with all Seduction Motorsports Spyder builds which sets our Spyders apart from the rest. Pricing starting at: $35. 99. 00 USD

His white 550 with Seductive Decals and 19" black rims, FOR SALE $49K no decals, 15" 914 eng

Looks like he is still selling Vintage cars as middle man..........hmmmmm  

@euro951 posted:

http://classiccardb.com/replic...-bespoke-outlaw.html

 

Seduction Motorsports SM550 Spyder Pre-Order “Rolling” or “Turnkey Package” Please read before bidding. This auction is to pre-order the construction of your very own built SM550 Spyder. The price is based off the standard vehicle features in which we have standardized with all Seduction Motorsports Spyder builds which sets our Spyders apart from the rest. Pricing starting at: $35. 99. 00 USD

@euro951 posted:

His white 550 with Seductive Decals and 19" black rims, FOR SALE $49K no decals, 15" 914 eng

@euro951 posted:

Looks like he is still selling Vintage cars as middle man..........hmmmmm  

Item location:	Chandler, Arizona, United States

No he’s not. The website, or someone using the website, has copied an old ad and is trying to scam people into making a deposit. 

Bam.

Dang. Having a bad year for sure.

I don’t know Daniel, nor do I own a Spyder. But curious as to what the intent is/was of dredging up this post?

It appeared from posts above that Greg rose above the situation and offered (w/ Daniel’s help) to finish the cars.

Daniel went out of business. It sucks for everyone involved....including Daniel.

It doesn’t appear that Daniel is pulling a Steve (SAS) and continuously ripping people off for many many years.  So why can’t we let sleeping dogs lie?

@Kevin - Bay Area posted:

I don’t know Daniel, nor do I own a Spyder. But curious as to what the intent is/was of dredging up this post?

It appeared from posts above that Greg rose above the situation and offered (w/ Daniel’s help) to finish the cars.

Daniel went out of business. It sucks for everyone involved....including Daniel.

It doesn’t appear that Daniel is pulling a Steve (SAS) and continuously ripping people off for many many years.  So why can’t we let sleeping dogs lie?

Agreed. He went to work for a Porsche retrofitting company in SoCal IIRC. I just don't recall the name. I really liked the stuff he was producing and he really tried to make a go of it. It was unfortunate the way he exited and that's on him. Not sure what the point of the thread resurrection was either.

It's not every day that a guy blows his own horn for years (on this very forum), misleads the entire world (regarding his status as a builder, rather than a finisher of Greg's cars), skips town leaving people who deposited money with nothing to show for it (that Greg stepped up says a lot about Greg, and nothing to recommend Daniel), then gets arrested for assault and disorderedly conduct.

It's news. That's why people are interested. I would suspect that if I took your money, and then got arrested, you'd think it was worth noting.

I guess I don't see the problem.

What is the intent, what is the point, what is the purpose of posting anything?

News.

I'm with Stan.   In my opinion, he always had a bit a chip on his shoulder and was quick to bite at people.  Yeah, it sucks he didn't make it, but personnaly, I would nave have done business with him.

One of the guys in the New England Replicar group has a Seduction 550 Spyder with the Subaru engine.  His is the one everyone critiqued regarding the diamond tufted Burgundy interior and graphite gray exterior.  Let me tell you, that car is drop dead gorgeous and absolutely flawless.  Regardless of where the base car came from, at least on that particular car Daniel did a superb job of finishing it AND it garnered "Best in Show" at the 2019 "PorscheFest show in Boston.....   Not an easy show to win anything at.

Whatever his business problems were, back then, I think it's time we all moved on.

Contact us for what this includes and excludes. Business Information Location: Seduction Motorsports LLC. 3215 N. Arizona Ave. Ste. B9. Chandler. Arizona 85225Phone: 480-404-1117Email: Sales@seducitonmotorsports. comProud Supporting Merchant Vendors: We are proud supporting merchants on SpeedsterOwners. com and SpyderClub. com

@euro951 posted:

Contact us for what this includes and excludes. Business Information Location: Seduction Motorsports LLC. 3215 N. Arizona Ave. Ste. B9. Chandler. Arizona 85225Phone: 480-404-1117Email: Sales@seducitonmotorsports. comProud Supporting Merchant Vendors: We are proud supporting merchants on SpeedsterOwners. com and SpyderClub. com

What is the point of your posts? You keep copying stuff from somewhere and posting it here without explanation.

Seduction is and has been out of business for a while now, a couple years or more. Totally agree with Robert, what is your point?

If you want to buy a Spyder contact Carey at Beck/SE or Greg at Vintage, or buy a used/home built.

Seduction is a dead end unless you find a used one(and really they are all Vintage-made).