JPS Motorsports

Sounds like its a good thing an ocean separates you from him.  I remember his promises to meet with a few rational SOC folks at Carlisle years ago to discuss Tom Dewalt's recently new acquired green JPS coupe.  He must have had food poisoning cuz he never showed. I crossed JPS off my list of could buy from vendors - even though Kelley Frazier's car really impressed me (probably exterior color, quality of paint and interior).

Sorry to hear of your story dealing with JPS. I recently picked up my new Subaru powered Coupe from John- took almost a year to be completed (when my contract calls for 12 weeks), many emails, calls and trips from N Cal to his shop to make sure work was progressing. Only thing I can say is the end result is beautiful and performance and build quality is impressive from an operation like his. However, not planning on any support from John if any problems arise down the road. Hope his health improves or I do not see JPS surviving long into the future.

Wolfy: txs for the kudos, or whatever they are called.  My paint turns lots of heads.  I will not repeat my litany of JPS broken promises surrounding my build and the sorting needed after delivery.  All been said many times before.  And there were more than a few.  That said, more was done right than wrong, and JPS did deliver a pretty good car to me with excellent paint and fitment, more or less on time and for the agreed price.  On many items after the sale John was responsive to my complaints, sent new parts when needed, and generally answered my e-mails and phone calls.  Of course that was several years ago.  I think we officially parted ways a year or so ago when I I floated the idea of having him make some custom side curtains that would actually fit to the contour of my top and seal out water and wind.  He went off the deep end at that request and ranted about how he did not have time to redesign side curtains -- said it might a take a couple of thousand dollars of time and energy to come up with that.  Holy poop.  We signed off, and I figure never the twain shall meet again.  To bad, because on most occasions, I found John fun to talk to and very knowledgeable.

The rest of the side curtain story is of interest:  I contacted Kirk at Vintage in SoCal, knowing that he and John work with the same interior shop.  At first, the deal was sure, we can do that, and I was willing to pay his standard fee for a pair of new side curtains, made to my template.  Sounded good to me.  I sent the template, and he asked for the old side curtains so he could use the hardware therefrom.  We went around a little about the details, but the upshot was he thought my side curtains were in excellent ( ~as new) condition, so he could sell them as such, and he would make up my new side curtains as a fair swap.  Price:  $0.00 including shipping.  So there are different approaches on how to run a business.

Sorry to hear that John's health may be faltering -- I know he had a heart attack recently, but heard he was back on the job.  As I said above, we have, sadly, parted ways, so my info is not current.  There are several JPS aficionados, around here who have had good relations with John and his cars in the past.  Seems there are less of these lately.  As to jail time, the only builder I'd like to see put away is SAS.  Not that I have ever had anything to do with them, because I have not, but the stories there are endless and WAY more perverted than anything Steele has tried to pull.

Ooops, my very bad. I apologize for my previous comment that has been deleted. It would have been directed at SAS. not John Steele.

But I heard that he builds a great hard top. 

Marty Grzynkowicz posted:

But I heard that he builds a great hard top. 

For a GAZZILLION DOLLARS!!

My 2-3 year experience with JPS has been all good. My subie super wide body is a beautiful , great running car and John has been responsive to my  calls for info and  I have nothing  bad to say. As most of you know my  first car was a Vintage that I had lots of problems with.

diddo!

My JPS is just two years old, runs like a clock after some initial tweaks, which all of these cars need.

It supplies endless smiles, and the suby motor surprises everyone who looks under the hood.

John has been ill this past year , and anyone who runs their own small business knows how devastating that can be to your business!

This forum has been very tough on John, How would you like to be kicked when you are down.

nuff said, now lets move on to enjoying our toys!

PBH posted:

Sorry to hear of your story dealing with JPS. I recently picked up my new Subaru powered Coupe from John- took almost a year to be completed (when my contract calls for 12 weeks), many emails, calls and trips from N Cal to his shop to make sure work was progressing. Only thing I can say is the end result is beautiful and performance and build quality is impressive from an operation like his. However, not planning on any support from John if any problems arise down the road. Hope his health improves or I do not see JPS surviving long into the future.

PBH, So that's your coupe i've been seeing over the last year since my build started. Grogeous car. Love the black and the interior. I'm about to take delivery on my speedster. The story is very typical of every JPS story so no need to repeat it here. After driving Dan Levitt's Suby powered speedster, i was hooked on the JPS and went in having read all of the warning stories. Fortunately, my wife and I were in the midst of a 7 months, full house renovation which took much more of my time, energy, frustration and stress. Now that that's done and we're moved in, I'm eager to take delivery of my Speedster this week.

My original progress post has been closed, so here are the latest pics. The blue is a bit darker than it looks in the outdoor pics. Blue top goes on this week, final buffing, and then delivery. 

Drove 60 miles around the Hollywood hills and Beverly Hills this weekend. 

I ended up with the 230 hp JDM Subaru engine which is a joy to drive. Perforated leather seats seats. Everything else will be as classic as possible.  

Congrats on

Congrats on the new car- great color combo. You will love the JDM motor- I am just getting around to having enough break-in miles to open it up.

My aim here has and will be to tell it like it is wrt JPS, the good, the bad, the ugly, and there has been some of each.  Not kicking anybody, whether down or not. John adapts to his customers, and will, I believe, treat them all a little differently.  He's the boss, he can do as he pleases.  A 250 HP Soobie Speedster is an awesome thing to contemplate. Maybe even scary.  What I see here looks really nice.  Would love to drive one someday.  Rear mounted seems the best to me.  I find the mid mounted design just a bit too much intrusion into the cockpit -- space, noise, heat. although I understand it may give a better handling arrangement.  At the end of the day, a Speedster needs its engine in the back.  Herr Doktor decided that a long time ago.

I had John build me a coupe a couple years ago and I am very pleased with the quality and reliability of the car and would certainly buy another from him and would have no hesitation recommending JPS to anyone considering a 356 replica.  

Dan Levitt posted:

diddo!

My JPS is just two years old, runs like a clock after some initial tweaks, which all of these cars need.

It supplies endless smiles, and the suby motor surprises everyone who looks under the hood.

John has been ill this past year , and anyone who runs their own small business knows how devastating that can be to your business!

This forum has been very tough on John, How would you like to be kicked when you are down.

nuff said, now lets move on to enjoying our toys!

Dan:

Glad you have had a good experience with your car.

I don't think that it is has been common knowledge that Mr. Steele has had health problems. That is unfortunate and I hope he returns to good health.

However, the "kicked when you are down" comment trying to shame people for expressing their negative experiences with him and his business is basically pretty lame.

You and several others have expressed your positive experiences. Those comments of others with less positive outcomes are just as valid. 

Frazier,

I agree that we all need to post our experience with a particular manufacturer.  That experience may or may not be typical, but it helps a prospective buyer make a purchasing decision.

I will disagree slightly with your rear-engine comment.  From my perspective, Porsche made a marketing decision when placing the engine in the rear, not a performance or handling decision.  After all, Ferry's father, Dr. Ing. Porsche collaberated on the Auto Union, both the 12 and 16-cylinder, mid engine models.  None of us know how the founders would look on the design evolution, but certain aspects are clear:

Porsche evolved from rear-engine, air-cooled models to mid-engine water-cooled models, not the other way around.  Same with swing axle to irs.  Have current marketing conditions been a part of the design and performance evolutions?  Most assuredly.  Competition from other performance car manufacturers has forced Porsche to "go big or go home", at least from a HP and performance perspective.

A major segment of the discussion of mid vs rear, and air vs water is much like comparing boxers of different eras, i.e, who would prevail if we could meld history.  I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, just an interesting means of comparison, with lots of positive elements in both camps.

I could never wait 2-3 years for a build while being lied to!

bob G, your point is well taken, but I have been on this forum over two years and any time john's name comes up it seems to attract the sharks. I have seen other manufacturers with issues that do not promote the same response.

This is such a refreshingly original discussion... 

Dennis, sorry to hear about your situation. There's always a risk working with vendors of any kind, and when you hear horror stories, I think it's easy to say "it won't happen to me". I know i was optimistic about my build since I started it at a typically slow time of year (August) and there weren't a lot of cars in front of me. Dan just wrapped up his build and it came in right on time. But I was also realistic that it could take longer than the 16 weeks I was quoted. In my wildest dreams (nightmares?) I certainly wasn't expecting 51 weeks, but I've got more than enough other things going on in my life to distract me from that frustration. I trust John wasn't expecting multiple heart attacks and extended hospitalization either. That was in November and I know when i saw him in March I wasn't so sure my car would be done before he was.. he looked THAT bad 4 months after the fact. Fortunately, he looks better now.

From what I can tell, John runs his operation on a razor's edge and moves money, efforts, debts, lies and favors around to try to keep the ship moving forward at any cost. I know my build suffered because he needed to address other urgent situations.

Personally, as a business owner, I can't imagine running a business like that day-to-day, but i'd be lying if i said there weren't times i've done some, if not all, of those things. 

For anyone searching this forum for info about JPS, thinking about buying one of his cars or starting a build with him... John's reputation and work quality has been well-documented. You have more than enough information about the risks and rewards to make your decision. I made mine knowing the risk and accepting it. I don't get the impression that any of the good or bad stories about JPS have been hyperbole. Sympathy to those who unfortunately have had a starring role in the bad stories. And for any of you in Southern California who are curious about his cars, you're more than welcome to take mine for a drive.

Very well stated, Devin.

about the side curtain fiasco--try making them your self -I did-- a bit taller and made from scratch proof lexan- not very hard for anyone capable of working on their own car

Devin: You sir, are the man. As a small business owner myself, I have stood in gape-mouthed wonderment at the perpetual-motion machine that is the JPS Motorsports business model. I think that John Steele found the Abe Lincoln "all of the people some of the time/ some of the people all of the time" business model to be quite workable for many, many years. This has to be the result of demand far outstripping supply, as there is no other explanation why he is still in business. It defies all explanation.

Dan: You minimize the very real fraud of a charlatan of the first order (the likes of whom I've never dealt with before or since). I'm glad that you feel you received what you paid for-- are you discounting the experiences of those who got significantly less? I'd struggle to recommend a woman who was faithful "some of the time" to my son as a suitable wife. I cannot fathom defending a small business owner who "delivered for me", knowing full well that he doesn't for other people. Far from "kicking a man when he's down", I feel it's 100% appropriate to relate firsthand experiences that run counter to the "hey, it worked for me" testimonials.

"Hey, it didn't work for me", seems equally fair.

Intermeccanica and Special Edition customers nearly universally sound like fan-boys because rare problems are resolved quickly and without drama.

Vintage and JPS both seems to have some significant QC issues, but Kirk Duncan is held up as a good guy, and John Steel is reviled here. Why? because of how the problems are resolved. Kirk takes responsibility and makes it right. To my knowledge, John never has taken responsibility for any issue-- and in my experience has promised resolution, but not delivered. That, in a nutshell, is why I would never, under any circumstances, do business with him again. I'd rather fix it on my own dime than rely on him in any way.

Bitter? No. Wiser? Absolutely.

Dan:

I can't imagine any manufacturer of these cars escaping the occasional issue with one of their builds. Did it occur to you that the reason some get harangued on this forum comes down to how they manage the resolution of those problems, not that they have them? And, that it is because there is a pattern of ongoing, repeated examples of mishandled or ignored issues that catch up to them?

The manufacturers who produce shoddy products, don't deliver the product they promise, or fail to rectify problems on a routine basis don't deserve support. 

They do deserve to be called out for those practices.

Again, I am glad that you are pleased with your car and I hope Mr. Steele's health continues to improve. 

I also hope that the manufacturers who deliver on their promises and treat their customers well, prosper. The rest of them......not so much.

Jim,  My reference to Herr Doktor and my presumption about what he might prefer -- or not -- was done tongue in cheek, I hope you realize. I have a sincere appreciation for the evolution of the Peoples' Car into a 356, or 550, the 911,  a 904 or even a 917.  For 356s. I'd prefer the engine in the rear.

And I agree whole heartedly that what separates the builders who gain press on this forum is their approach to problem resolution.  All are capable of producing very workable and well appointed Speedster Replicas, and so they do. But let's not forget the money -- one should always follow the money.  It is my opinion that JPS and VS build to a price point, to capture that end of the market.  I'll confess that this worked for me, as I was attracted to that price point.  The builders for whom you rarely if ever hear a discouraging word charge considerably more for their products and so enjoy a more comfortable position wrt being willing and able to get problems fixed.  They are, among other things, better businessmen.  Just the facts ma'am, nothing but the facts.

This is what the car looked like when I sent it to John /JPS

This is what I got back.. I still don't know what will end up being lost.  I pulled the car and took it to Kirk at  Vintage Speedsters who was awesome in helping me get the car pulled apart to ship the body first..  But everything was fcuked up by John Steel. I never heard about his health issues must have been after I got my car out Aug 2015.

If I was in the States this NEVER could have happened..

Holy Carp.

Ouch! There is no excuse for this...

Sorry you had this happen to you or anyone else.

Dennis- your car appears to be a later model original, not a replica coupe that John builds. What was JPS supposed to do to the car for you? Looks like all they did was destroy it!

Right hand drive conversion and new interior. Unfortunately I think this car was shipped there about the same time John got sick.

Dennis' car is an Envemo, a Brazilian-built replica that dates from the 80s, I believe.  It's on a VW Brasilia pan.  I seem to recall that Kevin Hines and maybe Chuck Beck were involved with Envemo somehow, but I am not sure.  I believe that some Porsche dealers in Europe even sold them.

Holy Crap is right. August 2015 is when i first went to JPS and you must have already pulled your car by then, b/c i definitely would have remembered this. Definitely no excuse for this...

Personally I think whoever starts making replicas of the 356C Coupe again will do really well with them. No electric windows, sunroof perhaps, no modern upgrades, just the basics and you'll have a winner!

Rusty - That's what the Beck Coupe will be, although the first ones will be mid-engined with Subaru power.  They have developed a chassis with interchangeable engine cradles that support mid- or rear-engined configurations with air cooled or water-cooled power.

The body molds were splashed off of Carey's personal Envemo Coupe.  The Envemo body has the slightly widened "pie cut" rear fenders similar to what Henry does on some of his cars.  That was originally done to fit on the wider Brasilia pan but will be useful now in allowing wider rear track for better handling.

Lane, when will we start to see some pictures? I too will be going the coupe route in the near future...

They're still doing prototype testing and working on the tooling.  Mine is still a little way off but I don't have a firm date.  As much as my natural impatience wants me too, I know that pushing would be a bad thing.

I am astonished. These photos are damning to say the least.  I am beyond sorry to hear about this -- it must be hell.  Wish there was something I could do.  It would take more money than I have to get this set right.  My opinion of JPS and how they view customer service has slipped down many notches and it was never all that high to start with.  This really is inexcusable.  Also changing my mind about who it is that should go to jail . . .

PS: your car was once upon a time a real beauty. I hope it can be recovered.

Good health or bad health I think it's time to see how good JPS's insurance is. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for what happened to you.

The only time I raised my voice to him is when he sent me this image and said they looked "fine"  I told him it was fugly and I could not live with the centers being so uneven.. This lead to the blow-up and my finally getting my car out..

To throw additional salt into the wound.. I had also both told him and written him that we had changed our minds and wanted all red not the black centers.. ARGH!