JPS VS. VINTAGE

HERE WE GO. I'M GOING TO ORDER A JPS OR VINTAGE SPEEDSTER BY MID AUGUST. I'VE ACTUALLY SEEN A VS AND I SEE THEY HAVE MADE OVER 1400 SPEEDSTERS. BUT I GET THE IMPRESION THAT THE JPS MIGHT BE BETTER. THEY ARE BOTH RIGHT IN MY BUDGET (20K) SO THAT'S NOT A FACTOR. I WANT A 2110 MOTOR AND I LIKE WHAT I HAVE READ ON JPS'S SIGHT. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? P.S. IF ANY ONE IN THE SANTA ROSA NORTH BAY AREA HAS EITHER OF THESE CARS AND HAS THE TIME TO SHOW ME THEIRS, LET ME KNOW.

Check out the EVENTS forum, We will be there Aug. 2nd & 3rd. Eddie.

They are the samew car. JPS buys his kits from Kurk at Vintage and he does the build. Kirk builds and sells more speedster than any one else. There must be a reason. I've had my Vintage for almost two years and wouldn't even consider anyone else.

My take on that is somewhat differant, JPS does a lot better job in details than VS. Just read the various posts on the VS cars and because I have just taken delivery on my JPS I have none of the items surface that plaugue the VS cars. VS takes about 3 weeks to complete a VS while JPS takes that long to just paint it. Read the reviews of the VS and you'll read the complaints about their paint jobs, they are OK but not as nice as John Steele's cars.As far as VS supplying the kits to JPS, that may not be accurate. They get the bodies from the same supplier in Mexico and I'm sure use the same vendors for some hardware and trim items but don't think they get the "kits(?) from VS.I went thru the same research on both cars and ended up with a JPS. Differant stokes for different folks they say!

Bruce

This topic just keeps coming up. It is absolutely different strokes for different folks. I have a VS car and if I had to do it again JPS would be the absolute choice. Kirk mass produces cars. John builds cars. Even though it was not his product he helped me with a lot of issues that VS would not. Even to order parts JPS is so much easier. John will go that extra little bit to make it right. Just my 2 cents. My dealings with VS was not a great one. After putting time in my car to make it right I would not give it up but don't feel you should have to do that if you buy a turn key car. As said it takes John almost as long to paint a car as it does VS to build one.

John Steele "JPS" buys his bodies from Kirk and has Kirk cuts the chassis for him.Kirk owns the molds that are in Mexico and contracts this company to build bodies for him!So bottom line John buys the bodies from Kirk "Vintage Speedsters" not from the same place Kirk does.
The next time I am at Kirks and John is there with his truck and trailer picking up a body and chassis I hope to have a camera with me to take a few pictures for you all to see! Lets stick to the facts Vintage Speedster "Manufacture"
JPS(John)"Builder"
(Message Edited 7/25/2003 3:09:07 AM)

Sometimes I wonder why owners feel the need to correct other ownerd on insignificant details. Don't get me wrong, getting the significant facts correct is important; however, who really cares if VS buys its it bodies from Mexico or owns the models in Mexico or whatever. And who cares if JPS buys it bodies from VS, or Mexico, or where ever. At the end of the day, it's the finish product and the quality and SERVICE associated with the finshed product. I have an '83 IM. I have never (until now) thought and really cared where the fiberglass bodies was produced.

This forum is great. However, sometimes I wonder why people feel the need to correct others on unimportant details.

ps - I wonder if the plastic casing for my computer was made in China or Japan... ??????

I agree with Dave. I have been monitoring (and infrequently contributing) to this sight for the last year. I enjoy reading about adventures the members have with their cars, both good and bad. There is a good knowledge base on the site and a willingness to help others is often displayed.

However, the periodic

Amen, Brother Dave and Brother Larry :)

Jerome

I always hesitate to contribute to these "which is better" threads because I am an outspoken, satisfied JPS customer. However, I thoroughly compared Vintage and JPS before making my purchase decision. As I've said here before, both John and Kirk make excellent cars. For me - and for others, I suspect - it came down to details. There was a definite difference in the "finish" quality between JPS and VS. You can speculate on the reasons for this all you want, but what was really important to me was the end result. Simply put, if you place their cars side-by-side, the differences are more apparent to some than others.
Kirk and John are friends, collaborators, and competitors. There are enough customers around to keep them both in business. As you should with any major purchase, do your homework and make your decision on what's important to you.
As an aside...I think this forum is generally quite polite when compared to the other similar BB's I read. This is a good group of folks.

John, Well said. I guess I wasn't as articulate as you but your post should nail this thread to the barn door.

Bruce

I think the comparison idea works for all the available replicas. Here in the USA it would be nice indeed if a prospoective buyer could see a "basic" JPS, VS, Beck, and IM Speedster all side by side, same color and interior treatment, with a list of standard features and base price, and an options list with individual option prices.

Open and close doors, kick tires, and check body panel surface quality, fit, and finish. Take each one for a 1/2 hour drive on a fun backroad. If you care about them, try the heat and defrost systems.

Compare fit, finish, santdard features, available options and prices, check your bank balance; then order the car of your choice according to your taste and budget.

In the past I have offered to show and allow demo test drives in my IM to any prospective buyers who want to make the trek to Solomons, MD, on a weekend, and that offer will still be open when the new car arrives.

Boy, I stayed away from this thread like the plague..... but, I just have to say something for us Vintage owners to save face for our community... (snicker).

No doubt Mr Steele puts together a fine looking car. No dissing, no nothing. JPS is a good product and a good buy. So, the person asking about JPS's that started this thread. Buy without fear.

And, yeah... there are a few posts in the thousands of posts here that mention a QC problem on VS paint. But that's like the old story.... s--- one c--- and you are a c---s---er for life. By volume there will be more complaints on VS because Kirk sells a bunch of cars. Look at the owners survey under the makers tab (above). The numbers rotate monthly on which manufacturer is #1, #2, #3. IM suffers having older first gen Speedsters pulling down their numbers, so that's a given. Same can be said for CMCs... most are 2d or 3rd owner cars, or kits that are just now getting assembled and so the Sat levels won't be so high. That leaves JPS and VS, who run neck and neck on the polling.... which means? "The abscence of a trend, in itself, indicates a trend".

Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe there's no Replica Speedsters in Oklahoma to compare it with (there are 5 that I know of, but that ruins my point so ignore that fact, haha). But, I really like my VS and as far as quality? Kirk delivered me one primo car. That takes away nothing from what John Leader and others say... I respect and believe what they state. It's just, I bought mine sight unseen... and, well, Kirk delivered. Now! If I were in the SoCal area, I would have done EXACTLEY what John did... and with that research & on the spot perspective, I might have gone with JPS.

All this to say? Hell, I don't know...haha. Oh, that the best way is to visit the makers, drive each car, and as George says, write the check based on your budget and desires. Me? Next time... hmmmmm. I'm looking at a 40g budget to build a po' boy version of Georges car.

JMHO,
Jim

Let me say this, I live in So Cal and I bought a VS in Feb 03 .
So far I have experienced paint issues, Kirk fixed, and then 2 weeks ago
with only 1000 miles the engine went bye bye. Cam bearing

John,

What does that mean "mexi-crate engine"? I've got a mechanic that sold me a rebuilt engine (from somewhere???) and put it in. What questions should I now ask about the type of engine without getting him mad. The engine's leaking a bunch of oil all over the place. If it's a mexi-crate engine, what should I tell the mechanic to work on as far as getting the engine running good. I'd like to use my car as a daily driver.

David

Todd,
You may not be able to answer this, but I have a 1776cc engine also. I had assumed it was a mexi-crate engine, but perhaps it isn't based upon your statement. I am not the original owner and it is a 2000 model year, so my information is limited. Do you know if the "1776cc built motor" is based on a mexi-crate, that is to say received from South of the border and modified or if not what the process actually is? Any thoughts?
Thanks
John H.
Anyone else care to comment?
(Message Edited 7/27/2003 11:27:50 AM)

John,

The guys a good, respected mechanic. Don't think I'll worry too much, just didn't want to seem too stupid with weird questions. I know very little about VWs. It doesn't seem Mexi-crate engines are bad in general. The mechanic suggested this particular engine rebuilder, so he must think they're good. I was just worried there might be general defects with Mexi-crate engines. Sounds like there's not.

Thanks,
David

THANKS FOR THE INFO TO ALL OF YOU. I HAD A FEELING THIS MIGHT TOUCH OFF SOME SPARKS, BUT I THINK EVERYONE SURVIVED. I'M GOING TO INVEST A COUPLE HUNDRED BUCK ON PLANE FARE AND TAKE A TRIP AND SEE THINGS IN PERSON, THEN MAKE MY ORDER ON THE SPOT. THANKS AGAIN FOR THE GREAT INPUT TO ALL. FJ

Francisco,

You are doing the right thing, nothing like seeing the cars in person. One item you might want to check is JPS uses sway bars as standard, I don't think VS offers them as standard, probably extra $$.
Good hunting.

Bruce

David,
Good questions. Since up to very recently, type 1.....oops!
Mexi-crate engines are engines manufactured in Mexico. According to recent reports, the air-cooled VW's are no longer going to be manufactured there; The much beloved "vochos" will become history. I am not certain what that will mean for engine building there, if it will also be discontinued. As far as maintaining them, your mechanic, if he is a good VW mechanic, will know what to do. If not, find another or learn the relatively simple procedures and do it yourself. In terms of oil leakage, this is common, but just how much leakage are you talking about? I few drops on whatever you are putting under the oil sump are OK, just a nuisance. Daily driver eh? It can be done.
John H.
(Message Edited 7/27/2003 11:26:38 AM)
(Message Edited 7/27/2003 5:03:02 PM)