Skip to main content

Jim Kelly posted:

As a coupe owner, I can attest that it's not hard at all to make the interior quiet, even with Tiger's exhaust and a mid-engine Subi turbo.  Just use a quality sound deadener and follow instructions.  After all, if Specialty Auto Sports can make a quiet coupe, how hard can it be?

Yes follow our directions, and it will all go right   

 

I have a mild 2026 cc stroker - which probably makes a bit less torque than a typical 2110 - and a 3.88 (with stock .89 fourth).

70 mph comes in at about 3250 rpm, which is still pretty relaxed sounding.

BUT, I do appreciate having that little bit more torque for climbing. With a 3.44, I'd be downshifting for hills that I can now pull in top gear.

What you pick up on one end, you always lose somewhere else. You need to decide based on how much freeway cruising you do and how much time is spent on twisty, hilly two-lanes.

 

*LongFella posted:
IaM-Ray posted:

I have read it ..yes... hope I did not miss something.  I though you mentioned 3:88 in this build I was suggesting a 3:44... that is all. 

I will be sticking to the basic Freeway Flyer trans (let the bashing begin!)

The term "freeway flyer" was made up by a now defunct company in the 1980's and means different things to different people- what r&p/4th gear combo are you considering for the car?

ALB posted:
*LongFella posted:
IaM-Ray posted:

I have read it ..yes... hope I did not miss something.  I though you mentioned 3:88 in this build I was suggesting a 3:44... that is all. 

I will be sticking to the basic Freeway Flyer trans (let the bashing begin!)

The term "freeway flyer" was made up by a now defunct company in the 1980's and means different things to different people- what r&p/4th gear combo are you considering for the car?

The most common standard heavily used version of the freeway flyer with a 3.88. Same transmission in my Speedster - it works for our application. Even cruised to SLO for the west cost cruise and it was perfect

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

I have a mild 2026 cc stroker - which probably makes a bit less torque than a typical 2110 - and a 3.88 (with stock .89 fourth).

70 mph comes in at about 3250 rpm, which is still pretty relaxed sounding.

BUT, I do appreciate having that little bit more torque for climbing. With a 3.44, I'd be downshifting for hills that I can now pull in top gear.

What you pick up on one end, you always lose somewhere else. You need to decide based on how much freeway cruising you do and how much time is spent on twisty, hilly two-lanes.

 

Very good point there is a bit of a zone between 3rdand 4th with the 3:44 

*LongFella posted:
ALB posted:
*LongFella posted:
IaM-Ray posted:

I have read it ..yes... hope I did not miss something.  I though you mentioned 3:88 in this build I was suggesting a 3:44... that is all. 

I will be sticking to the basic Freeway Flyer trans (let the bashing begin!)

The term "freeway flyer" was made up by a now defunct company in the 1980's and means different things to different people- what r&p/4th gear combo are you considering for the car?

The most common standard heavily used version of the freeway flyer with a 3.88. Same transmission in my Speedster - it works for our application. Even cruised to SLO for the west cost cruise and it was perfect

I really don't know what you're referring to when using that phrase, so- you're going to go with a 3.88 r&p, what 4th gear are you considering? And, the term "freeway flier" has no definitive meaning, so for the sake of clarity could we please stop using it so we all know exactly what we're talking about?

@IaM-Ray- If you stay with the stock 1st through 4th gear cluster there is no "zone" where engine speed in 3rd is too high yet too low in 4th; the spacing works with a stock engine and 3 different ring & pinions (4.375, 4.125 and 3.88). You may not feel comfortable pushing up a hill at 3500 in 3rd when the alternative is lugging it in 4th, but it's perfectly within the engine's capabilities to run like that for extended periods. Change the 4th from .89 to .82, though, now the spacing is even longer and you have to run the engine 200-300 rpm higher before shifting into 4th, and now it does become a problem!

  Each time VW lengthened the r&p ratio, a bigger engine with more power was supplied (went from 1200 to 1500 and finally to 1600 cc dual port) and the 3.44 will work as long as you pair it with an engine of 2 liters or more! It would probably be wise to consider a .93 in 4th as it will give the same highway speeds as 3.88/.82 (about 80-81 mph at 3500, give or take a mph or 2 depending on tire size); any faster isn't useful and is just a recipe for trouble with the law.  Al

ALB posted:
*LongFella posted:
ALB posted:
*LongFella posted:
IaM-Ray posted:

I have read it ..yes... hope I did not miss something.  I though you mentioned 3:88 in this build I was suggesting a 3:44... that is all. 

I will be sticking to the basic Freeway Flyer trans (let the bashing begin!)

The term "freeway flyer" was made up by a now defunct company in the 1980's and means different things to different people- what r&p/4th gear combo are you considering for the car?

The most common standard heavily used version of the freeway flyer with a 3.88. Same transmission in my Speedster - it works for our application. Even cruised to SLO for the west cost cruise and it was perfect

I really don't know what you're referring to when using that phrase, so- you're going to go with a 3.88 r&p, what 4th gear are you considering? And, the term "freeway flier" has no definitive meaning, so for the sake of clarity could we please stop using it so we all know exactly what we're talking about?

@IaM-Ray- If you stay with the stock 1st through 4th gear cluster there is no "zone" where engine speed in 3rd is too high yet too low in 4th; the spacing works with a stock engine and 3 different ring & pinions (4.375, 4.125 and 3.88). You may not feel comfortable pushing up a hill at 3500 in 3rd when the alternative is lugging it in 4th, but it's perfectly within the engine's capabilities to run like that for extended periods. Change the 4th from .89 to .82, though, now the spacing is even longer and you have to run the engine 200-300 rpm higher before shifting into 4th, and now it does become a problem!

  Each time VW lengthened the r&p ratio, a bigger engine with more power was supplied (went from 1200 to 1500 and finally to 1600 cc dual port) and the 3.44 will work as long as you pair it with an engine of 2 liters or more! It would probably be wise to consider a .93 in 4th as it will give the same highway speeds as 3.88/.82 (about 80-81 mph at 3500, give or take a mph or 2 depending on tire size); any faster isn't useful and is just a recipe for trouble with the law.  Al

So you don't want me to say freeway flier anymore?

Freeway flier!

Ok, that's the last time

Ok, ok, I'm going to bring the bickering to an end. 

I propose highway-flyer, interstate-flyer, bonneville-salt-flat-flyer and really-long-straight-downhill-country-road-flyer.  These are, of course, all  used in the noun form.

If we are talking about it in verb form then it should be highway-flier, interstate-flier, bonneville-salt-flat-flier and really-long-straight-downhill-country-road-flier. 

Nuff said.

-=theron

Theron posted:

Ok, ok, I'm going to bring the bickering to an end. 

I propose highway-flyer, interstate-flyer, bonneville-salt-flat-flyer and really-long-straight-downhill-country-road-flyer.  These are, of course, all  used in the noun form.

If we are talking about it in verb form then it should be highway-flier, interstate-flier, bonneville-salt-flat-flier and really-long-straight-downhill-country-road-flier. 

Nuff said.

-=theron

Flyer, flier, pants on fire. Or is it fyer.

ALB posted:

You can say it all you want, but since we don't know exactly what you're talking about, when you're asking for advice it's a little hard to know what to tell you. Just sayin'...

So, you still haven't answered my question- what 4th gear are you running?

Standard VW 1-4 gearing with a 3.88 RP. I’m not at home at the moment so I don’t have the actual 1-4 gear numbers. Trans in the Speedster was from Kirk at VS - so I could reach out to him and his vendor to get the actual numbers, but that take too long  

Theron posted:

Ok, ok, I'm going to bring the bickering to an end. 

I propose highway-flyer, interstate-flyer, bonneville-salt-flat-flyer and really-long-straight-downhill-country-road-flyer.  These are, of course, all  used in the noun form.

If we are talking about it in verb form then it should be highway-flier, interstate-flier, bonneville-salt-flat-flier and really-long-straight-downhill-country-road-flier. 

Nuff said.

-=theron

I like your thinking Theron

The 3.44 with a .93 is pretty much the perfect highway final drive for a 2L+ mill. It's the same as a .82 with a 3.88, but using the .82/3.88 with a stock 3rd makes the reach from 3rd to 4th pretty much unusable.

I've got a 3.10/2.06/1.31/.93 with a 3.44. The mainshaft is custom, as is 3rd. The .93 was OG on '73 onward Beetles. "Standard" Rancho (and others) ratios are 3.78/2.06/1.26/.89, generally with a 4.12.

"Freeway Fliers" can mean stock gearing with a 3.88 R/P, or stock gearing with a .82 4th and a 4.12. The 3.88 version is far, far better.

 

Last edited by Stan Galat

My Spyder came with a 3.88 r&p and a .82 4th which would have created that big gap between 3rd and 4th, which is why I changed the gears to a 3.44 and a .93.

That's what I run in the TD as well and it works a treat: 1st is plenty low for starting off on hills and she gets up and goes just fine. Probably hits 60 in about 6 seconds flat at the top of second gear. I'm sure the 3.88 would be quicker off the line but I didn't build her to drag race.

The 2.2 Subaru, with 140 ft-lbs and 135 hp, loves this trans in Bridget, which weighs about 1800 pounds. 6000 rpm in 3rd is 100 mph (theoretically, of course); 3000 rpm in 4th is about 70 mph and that's the sweet spot for keeping up with highway traffic, even if I'd rather be doing 50 mph on a shaded two-lane.

I'm thinking the same gears should work just about as well in a 1400 (or so)-pound Spyder pushed by a 120 hp 1915. Same red line as the Suby (they both peak about 5500 and pull through 6000). The Spyder's power-to-weight will be a little better, with each horse moving a little under 12 pounds, as opposed to a little more than 13 pounds in Bridget. 

Picking the Spyder's transaxle up next Saturday, and progress continues.

Folks:

So I go away for a bit and you knuckle heads start up again about transmissions..

Have you not read Terry Nuckles 10 million best selling book, "Trans-Mission, aint like fish'n", captivating guide book on how to set up a proper transmission for your driving needs.

Let me throw in my $100,000 opinion.. (that would be $3 million in Canadian)

all of these parts work in concert:

Rims and Tire size (which nobody mentioned), engine, transmission.

Once you know the exact engine size and specs and the exact size rims and tire size your going to use and never deviate, THEN decide on the gearing and what you want form the transmission,  and your driving preferences..

You can go to the weddle gear site and play with the gear ratio calculator

https://weddleindustries.com/gear-calculator

I know you don't want a 5 speed.  This will be a big help not only to understand the gear selection and RP but to fine tune your gears to fit your driving needs and get the best from a 4 speed..  It will show you the RPM's for each gear and the gaps....  Its a great tool and was a huge help when I had Scott Sebastian Build my transmission.. Which works well with my tire size, engine and my personal driving needs.  

Sorry I went a little Stan G here

Tebs

damn!! my finger hurts from all this typing

 

I've got the same trans as Stan, except I DON'T have a custom gear set.

That custom mainshaft for 1-2 is pricey!

His 3.10 1st is custom, as is his 3rd and 4th.

Stock 1-4 is 3.80, 2.06, 1.26, and 0.89. Which works well in a 1500 pound Spyder with 170 hp on a 3.44 final. I submit it would be REALLY nice to split 3rd, a little shorter and a little longer, and use the stock 4th as 5th. But that's not financially feasible in MY car. Unless it was built that way from the start.

Ed, that's a good choice with less power on tap. For those with heavier Speedsters, unless you have torque monsters, I wouldn't recommend anything taller than the 3.88 final.

Quick update on the build...

Picked up the front beam, disc brakes, hard lines (decided to not make my own on this build), master cylinder, pedals, caster shims, all hardware, etc.

Should have it all in within an hour or two this weekend to complete the front end. Pics will follow  I decided on a single adjustable (versus both tubes) set in the neutral position (for now) and 2" drop spindles. I can use the single adjustment to get the perfect stance. Whitewalker is going to have a very aggressive stance.

@550 Phil - I was drueling over your Spyder at Greg's shop when I was there. Didn't have time to take photos, but that engine... damn she looks good!!!

My goal: Have both the coupe and speedster cruising through wine country for the next West Coast Cruise

Bill Prout posted:

I'm curious as to why the textured finish vs smooth since you planned on using the Dynamat? I'd be concerned with air pockets and moisture between the two.

Top notch job either way!

When applying, I use a heat gun to soften and make the bottom more tacky. IMO this helps stick the product on better and work in all the little pits/pockets/curves.

I also used truck bed liner to add weight to the chassis and water proof it all. Even if water did get under the dynomat it won’t penetrate the truck bed liner. Some weight idea/thinking applies to the dynomat. Helps with sound proofing, sealing, and adds weight...

But I’m no expert in all this. It’s only my second build!

Quick little update...

Got to see Greg the past couple of days this week and pick up some more parts for the Coupe. Trans has been ordered and should be in next week. Only need the custom rims and tires and I'll have the rolling chassis complete.

I also talked about the body and the look I am going for so Greg knows what to do for the body. We agreed on price for the body, paint, glass, trim and rubber. I am planning to make the deposit at the end of this week or next week to get things moving.

On a side note... his shop is PACKED full of awesomeness. He certainly looked a little stressed with how busy things are. I told him to crawl to the desert and take a weekend off

Those things dont fit my transmission (or any trans with heavy duty side plates.)

I thought maybe if i could get someone to widen that center plate so the fingers would fit then maybe. The only issue I can see there is that maybe the widened version would then hit the frame horns.

It's pretty tight under there. I actually had to shave the frame horns so the side plate bolts wouldn't rub.

Last edited by TRP

Why am I not surprised you have two of everything? I did buy two engines from you

Nothing special about the trans. Standard VW gearing with a 3.88 RP. Same in my Speedster. It’s sufficient for how I drive and where I drive.

Unfortunately, Greg has been sick the past three days (he sounds like poop on the phone) so I couldn’t get the rest of the parts to complete the rolling chassis. And I need to get him the deposit for the body!

Man. I wish I lived closer. I'd be there in a minute to lend a hand.l. I could have saved you some scratch on that trans. I think Anthony is going to take this one off my hands for me. 

I just dont have the room to store stuff now that I have the A in the garage.

What else do you need to make it a roller?

Only thing left are the rims, tires, and drum skins (no baby moons). The rims will be Vintage 190 powdered coated gloss black with 185 tires (same size as the Speedster).

There are little things I still need to get ready prior to the body being mounted, but I'm looking at several weeks before Greg and his Team complete my body and get everything lined up perfectly. I am amazed how perfect they get the panels lined up... it is a work of art and to see it happen is pretty cool...

TRP posted:

Hey Brian, Please shoot me a PM.  I'm struggling with my Sway-a-way spring plates. I'm trying to use the stock bushings and the stock end plates. Could use a few pointers.  If I had stuck with the stock spring plates, I'd be done by now.

 

You have IRS, right?

The trick for me (swing axle) is: using four longer bolts to attach the spring plate cover. The adjustable spring plate uses different bushings that make it easier to get everything together. The OEM ones are better, but make it a challenge to squeeze everything in place. The longer bolts help with the squeezing together part once everything is lined up. I also have the VW tool that allows you to pull the spring plate up after the starting degree is set.

Hope that helps!

TRP posted:

Hey Brian, Please shoot me a PM.  I'm struggling with my Sway-a-way spring plates. I'm trying to use the stock bushings and the stock end plates. Could use a few pointers.  If I had stuck with the stock spring plates, I'd be done by now.

This is pretty funny Ted. After I read this I was typing a message to Brian to get in touch with you about getting the plates back on but I was on my phone and could only see the stock plate so I erased my message. I didn't think it would apply because it looked like he was putting the stock plates on and not the Sway-Away.

@TRP  

If you want to use the stock black rubber bushings (which I would recommend bc the red poly are too stiff), you can open up the bore to the correct size for the adjustable spring plates.  I think it is a 2" bore, but check to make sure, my memory sucks at times.  To do this, I made a fixture on my drill press and used a hole saw.  I do not have pictures, but I will try to explain.

Clamp a piece of plywood to the drill press table.  Now take a second piece of plywood ( a little larger than a bushing, maybe 8" square) and use drywall screws to attach to the plywood clamped to table.  This piece should be roughly centered under the spindle.  Using the appropriate diameter hole saw ( I think 2") drill a hole in the top piece of plywood.  Now remove the top piece of plywood.  Place your bushing on the remaining piece of plywood and place the drilled piece of plywood on top of the bushing.  Using the hole saw in the spindle, center the plywood and bushing.  Using long drywall screws, screw the top plywood down, clamping the rubber bushing tightly.  Now use the hole saw to drill down through the bushing.

This will open the bore in the rubber bushing and help with the assembly and function of the bushing.  You may still have to use longer bolts to get the cover started on the spring plate ends.  However, this gives the correct fit between the bushing and the spring plate, and will allow the proper motion of the rubber without the bushing being too crushed into the housing.  Hope this makes sense!

James

Note: You can probably do this just as well on a workbench using a hand drill.

Last edited by James

I just watched a couple of Youtube videos by Milo Manx about changing ride height with the existing stock spring plates. The long video is about 30 minutes and the short one is about 20 minutes.

I have considered doing this but I've been a little leery of the spring plate flying off and taking part of me with it. He made the video on a Meyers Manx which appears to be about 30% lighter than a beetle, and claims there is an equivalent reduction in the tension on the plate as a result, making it less likely that the thing will fly off and decapitate me or one of our three dogs.

He makes it look pretty straightforward, changing from a protractor in the first video to a Johnson electronic angle indicator in the second to set the plate at the right angle after resetting the torsion bar. There is a chart in an old thread somewhere on this forum that relates the spline adjustments to the resulting height .

My car sits slightly higher on the passenger side than the drivers side which he says is correct to adjust for the difference in the crown of most rodes. Makes some sense.

I could probably get the height adjustment I want by simply swapping out my Veredesteins for a lower profile tire, but I kind of like the tires I have.

What are the pro's and cons of using the existing spring plates, getting new adjustable ones, or just swapping out tires?

 

Last edited by Panhandle Bob

the adjustable plates allow you to dial in the ride heights at each rear corner. raising or lowering the rear also slightly effects the front. RR effects the LF and LR effects  the RF. If you scale the car you can ready see it.

as for adjustable spring plates, buy the sway away brand !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  you can get the others for half the price but I found the adjusting blocks to be welded in different locations and the bushings fit one plate and not the other. The money you think you save buying the cheaper part is spent making it work!

Anthony posted:
*LongFella posted:

Trans is mounted. Didn’t have a lot of time today, but it was nice to see a little progress...

9E52AE38-9F48-4E5B-9018-BC4CFF37BECDD685C7D4-8926-41EC-AB56-12ADA7770F0D32968A09-3284-46A2-8619-2752F4680DB3

Looks great, If those shocks are KYB gas units you will not like the ride. put bilstein's or koni's on the chassis. you will appreciate the difference.

They are basic EMPI brand shocks. Oil in the front and gas in the rear. I have the same set-up on my Speedster and it is sufficient for my application/use of the car.

Anthony posted:
TRP posted:

IRS is for quitters and namby pambys. I swing, baby...

Which bushings did you use? My SwayAWays from CB didnt come with bushings. Grrr... 

Been fighting them for days.

you should be able to use the stock bushings. you can lube them all you want ........dry them and use baby powder.

Should you use silicone grease rather than a petroleum based product to lube them?

Bob asked on 1/22: "Should you use silicone grease rather than a petroleum based product to lube them?"

I'm assuming you're asking about urethane bushings.  The Urethane guys (Prothane) recommend a "special" urethane grease that looks and feels like dielectric grease to me.  I used it liberally on the inside of mine when I installed them (we're talking front beam, here) and they've been quiet since (10 years?).  

http://www.prothanesuspensionparts.com/9.11110

On the rear torsion bar bushings, it seems like everyone except Mango Smoothie and me recommend talcum powder, while he and I use CV joint grease.  Whatever you prefer. 

IaM-Ray posted:

Gordon is this on the right topic?

Panhandle Bob posted:
Anthony posted:
TRP posted:

IRS is for quitters and namby pambys. I swing, baby...

Which bushings did you use? My SwayAWays from CB didnt come with bushings. Grrr... 

Been fighting them for days.

you should be able to use the stock bushings. you can lube them all you want ........dry them and use baby powder.

Should you use silicone grease rather than a petroleum based product to lube them?

@IaM-Ray

It was a late response to an earlier question.

Got  chance to stop by the new shop and get some parts ordered. Greg is humming along and he is BUSY!

My coupe body should be done by the end of this month. Exciting!

The rolling chassis is complete. Once the body is done, everything will be mounted and the rest is just having he time to finish it like my Speedster...

Engine will be a basic 2110cc. Nothing fancy and smilier to my Speedster engine.

Add Reply

Post Content
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×