The proof is in the "pudding"!
My PCA for the day.
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I wonder how often or seldom do oil filters get re-designed or re-developed with new technology. How would a person keep up with what is good ? That Fram filter is obviously the worst of the bunch in his group. Would Fram have been worst a year ago or next year ? Is there an independent testing facility that routinely puts out test results ?
Wix 5151R is the best I've had them in Speedsters, CAT & Cummings Diesels and even a " B" Dragster.
I use Wix 5151 (no "R") in the speedster, and Wix filters in every vehicle I own and service.
Life is too short to dork around with Fram filters.
I use the Wix 5151 filter, too. The “R” version allows slightly more oil flow (for racing, thus the “R”) at the price of slightly less filtering.
Fram filters have sucked for as long as I can remember. When my Dad had school buses when I was a kid, the service manager at the local GMC dealer told him to NEVER put a Fram filter on any of his buses so we never did - we ran external Frantz filters and loved ‘em.
BTW, NAPA Gold filters are manufactured by Wix.
NAPA P/N 15151
These filters were not all in the same over- the - counter price point so I don't consider it a fair and valid presentation. Typically, Fram has always been the "cheap/cheesy" filter and I would not use one. In my filter evaluations for Los Angeles County Sheriff Dept. patrol fleet, we found that AC filters were the best at that time because of the filter element. With other characteristics being equal.
It was what they called the "W-fold filter media" The paper element was folded in a "W" pattern (looking at the papers edge) thus allowing more folds in the outer radius of the canister. Stretching the paper out showed that it was nearly twice as long as any other filter element. This increase in the surface area allowed use of a smaller micron hole size in the paper thus filtering out smaller particles than other filters without reducing or restricting oil flow.
Just as David Stroud said, This may not be the case with AC Filters today. They may have changed to something different now. The only way to find out is to cut one open.
Many filters are made by one manufacturer and sport different brand names in addition to different price point differences within the filters as well. In order for this evaluation to be meaningful a substantially larger amount of filters would have to be bought and cut open. More qualitative, and less subjective evaluation should follow too. That's my 2 cents..............Bruce
Oil filters are a great source of debate on many automotive forums. We only scratch the surface compared to some groups (some are soooo anal!
). What I've picked up from all the discussions I've checked out- Fram has sucked for quite the number of years now, while K&N (the ones not made in Mexico), Mann, Wix, and Napa (made by Wix) all make the grade. There are others. And more than 1 group has cut apart and compared filters side by side.
The Wix 51515 vs 51515R debate- both have canisters with high burst pressures that will withstand a normal aircooled oil system (when given a couple of minutes to warm up- please don't go out and start revving the crap out of your stone cold engine just to prove me wrong! I will not come over and help clean up the mess
), so for me the big difference is particle size. The 51515R moves close to 30 gal/minute (way more than any VW street engine will ever need), but achieves this at the expense of particle size, so only filters down to 58? microns (.0022" I think it works out to), while the 51515 is rated for 8-9 gal/min (still more than all but the highest revving VW engine will ever need) and filters to 21? microns (.0008"). The R is great in a constant high revving engine with big bearing clearances (Nascar comes to mind) but our street engines are built with tighter bearing clearances.
Don't get me wrong, the race filter will work- I just don't think it's the right product for the job.
@ ALB Thanks I just learned something today & much appreciated!
.........….the 51515 is rated for 8-9 gal/min and filters to 21? microns (.0008").
Alan Merklin posted:@ ALB Thanks I just learned something today & much appreciated!
.........….the 51515 is rated for 8-9 gal/min and filters to 21? microns (.0008").
That's correct, Alan; those figures (and the figures for the 51515R are taken right off the Wix website. And as I said above, 8-9 gpm is way more than enough capacity for our little watch winders. I remember reading somewhere (probably the Samba?) that a VW oil pump is capable of about 3 or 3 1/2 gpm, so a filter that will flow 2 1/2-3 times as much is more than adequate.
Kripes....and I just put in a Fram HP1 filter and 12 litres of the good stuff....live and learn, eh ?
David Stroud posted:Kripes....and I just put in a Fram HP1 filter and 12 litres of the good stuff....live and learn, eh ?
The Fram will still work, David; they're just not built the best. Is the filter on you car accessible so you could quickly swap it out? I wouldn't use them repeatedly, but for 1 oil change it's probably fine.
Al: 100% agreement. Fram is junk.
I was using the Wix/NAPA R(racing) filter, but have changed to the standard one since Al posted those specs a few(maybe 4 or 5?) years ago. I have two on the shelf, 5-7 bucks and in stock at NAPA every day. Good filtration, well built, cheap, and available. It doesn't get any batter than Wix.
David, since your car is dry sump, you can possibly change the filter without losing much at all. Or like Al says, leave it on until next year. It probably won't do you know harm.
I switched to the K&N HP 2004 filter last year. In comparison to the WIX 51515R it filters down to 10 microns and the WIX only filters to 61 microns. The burst strength on the K&N is 550 psi. It is almost identical in size to the WIX so it doesn’t take up much space in the wheel well if that’s where you have it. It also has a one inch nut on the top for easy removal. I’ve been very happy with it so far
The Wix/NAPA R filter is twice the price for a third of the filtration. The regular non-R is good to 21 microns. Unless you have a NASCAR dry-sump V-8 nobody needs the R version especially in our little lawnmower engines.
Good to know about the K & N, thanks Robert.
DannyP posted:The Wix/NAPA R filter is twice the price for a third of the filtration. The regular non-R is good to 21 microns. Unless you have a NASCAR dry-sump V-8 nobody needs the R version especially in our little lawnmower engines.
Good to know about the K & N, thanks Robert.
What are you still doing up, Danny? It's late on your side of the continent!
Insomnia strikes occasionally. Going back to bed shortly.....
DannyP posted:The Wix/NAPA R filter is twice the price for a third of the filtration. The regular non-R is good to 21 microns. Unless you have a NASCAR dry-sump V-8 nobody needs the R version especially in our little lawnmower engines.
Good to know about the K & N, thanks Robert.
Anytime Danny. I’m a fan of K&N’s product line and find their products to be well made. I put K&N air filters in all of my cars for the improved air flow. It took me a while to find this filter because I wanted the high pressure capability like the WIX but with smaller particle filtration. Now that I found it I won’t use anything else.
I like the K&N but I find the K&N air filters one has to remember to use just a bit of lubricant not kill it with oil . 
FYI: The K&N cross reference for the WIX 51515 unit is HP 3001. It is taller (5.7") than the previous mentioned HP 2004 (4.1") and is still rated at 10 micron filtration.
Brian
RacerX posted:FYI: The K&N cross reference for the WIX 51515 unit is HP 3001. It is taller (5.7") than the previous mentioned HP 2004 (4.1") and is still rated at 10 micron filtration.
Brian
That’s good to know. Thank you Brian.
pass the popcorn already
Ran across this guy in my Facebook feed.
Very interesting YouTube video below, during which he cuts open five oil filters. Bottom line, you will never buy a Fram again!
RacerX posted:FYI: The K&N cross reference for the WIX 51515 unit is HP 3001. It is taller (5.7") than the previous mentioned HP 2004 (4.1") and is still rated at 10 micron filtration.
Brian
Are you finding the info on the K&N website? I didn't see it any where. Is there flow rate info? Do you have the link?
Just had an interesting "live chat" with the K&N rep, who couldn't answer my question about flow rate and micron size and instead tried to bamboozle me with "K&N is an industry leader with all our products exceeding specs....". Only after after I asked why she was feeding me BS did she suggest I call a tech. I don't really see the purpose of the live chat if the rep doesn't have any information.
ALB posted:RacerX posted:FYI: The K&N cross reference for the WIX 51515 unit is HP 3001. It is taller (5.7") than the previous mentioned HP 2004 (4.1") and is still rated at 10 micron filtration.
Brian
Are you finding the info on the K&N website? I didn't see it any where. Is there flow rate info? Do you have the link?
I just searched "K&N cross reference HP 3001" and it took me to a chart right on their site. I could not find a flow number anywhere though. Just the stated "High Flow" claim when I look at various suppliers.
ALB posted:Just had an interesting "live chat" with the K&N rep, who couldn't answer my question about flow rate and micron size and instead tried to bamboozle me with "K&N is an industry leader with all our products exceeding specs....". Only after after I asked why she was feeding me BS did she suggest I call a tech. I don't really see the purpose of the live chat if the rep doesn't have any information.
I'm finding better information about K&N on the JBUGS site:
https://www.jegs.com/i/K-N/599/HP-3001/10002/-1
Is it possible by using Wix 51515R that an increase in oil pressure might result? That seems to be the case when I switched to the Wix from Fram HP1.
"Is it possible by using Wix 51515R that an increase in oil pressure might result? That seems to be the case when I switched to the Wix from Fram HP1."
You should see slightly higher oil pressure when you first install a new filter, simply because it's not blocked with crud as the old filter might be. Another reason for pressure differences might simply be the density of the paper weave used by each - One might be slightly more restrictive than the other and the more restrictive will show a slightly lower oil pressure at the sender (downstream from the filter).
Both of those you show above are racing filters and, as such, don't filter to the finer particle level that "regular" non-racing filters do, because racing filters always favor flow volume over particulate filtration (in other words, racing filters can't catch the smaller particles that regular filters do).
Do you need a racing filter for increased oil volume in the circuit or just think that 'something made for racing must be better'?
Somebody that is OCD out there, should buy a wack of filters and run tests just after their oil is changed just to see how much extra oil pressure they got.
But first you would need an oil pressure guage sensitive enough to measure it. NOT...
Thanks for feedback Gordon. To be honest, motive for choosing the "R" filters is more for looks than anything else. Like, same as my Dellorto 48 Tri-Jets which have no justifiable purpose but they look cool (even though they have to choke way down to 36 vents; which truly is: "what's the point for 48 Tri-Jets?")
I change my oil and filter so often that the difference in micron filtering between racing and standard filters is not so much a concern for me. By many standards I am draining "clean" oil and replacing a "clean" filter. By any standard I think the filtering is still better than a stock sump strainer. Again, such frequent oil changing us probably unnecessary, but in this case I figure there actually is some merit in: more-is-better. Same with choice of Valvoline VR1 racing oil, because of the high zink.
The reason for my question is my oil pressure seems to be markedly higher than it used to be (maybe 15 psi at 1000 rpm idle and nearly 40 psi at 3100 rpm cruising, with 180*-190* oil temp). That's generally 2-3 psi to 5-6 psi over the range more than what I think I remember. It puzzled me. I haven't changed anything other than filter and oil brand, so after reading this thread about different filter flow rates, I wondered.
PS: Oil is 20/50, same as for all of engine's 26 ,000 miles. I changed from Castrol GTX to Valvoline VR1 at the same time as changing from Fram to Wix.