Looking for my VS build's sister

Bill, a 1914 was a fairly typical engine in later Kirk Duncan Speedsters.

Others here will know better specs than I do, but it's a 69mm stroke(stock length) with 94mm cylinders(MUCH bigger than stock).

Yeah I expect it was considered their economy "performance engine".  Where just the larger P&C along with case/head enlarging was done.  It would be nice if the "performance" upgrade included a better cam, better heads, lightened flywheel/8 dowel pins BUT to keep cost down that was probably not done.  If a true build sheet was done - that would at least verify parts without a costly tear down.  Would be reassuring to know if its a name brand cam or just some old reground hunk of Chinese steel.  Mexi-crate or CB Performance build, etc.  Is the engine da bomb or a time bomb?

I've seen lots and lots of Vintage Speedsters build sheets, but don't recall ever seeing any build details more than just the engine size.

My  VS was built in may of 2016 and the build sheet lists the engine as 1915 cc but no other details

If it were me, I’d asking Greg to put you in touch with his builder. He may or may not keep records.

Vintage used Roland Rascon for a lot of engines, but I believe he's no longer with us.

@dlearl476

@DannyP posted:

Vintage used Roland Rascon for a lot of engines, but I believe he's no longer with us.

@dlearl476

Danny is correct in that Roland Rascon has passed away. Pretty sure Kirk kept minimal, if any, records on his builds.

Sad

@dlearl476 posted:

If it were me, I’d asking Greg to put you in touch with his builder. He may or may not keep records.

Wrong vintage Vintage, I'm afraid.

"Vintage Speedsters" in 2017 was Kirk and Mary Duncan who later sold their business to Vintage Motorcar of Scottsdale, AZ - which should not to be confused with Vintage Motorcars of California (Greg Leach), who is operating out of the old Kirk and Mary Duncan Vintage Speedsters shop in Hawaiian Gardens, or with Vintage Speedster Parts, operating out of "California, USA" (according to the website), or with Vintage Speed in Taiwan. One can buy parts from Vintage Motorcars of California, but not cars from Vintage Speedster Parts (also of California). It's unclear whether or not Vintage Motorcar of Scottsdale is selling either cars or parts, but Vintage Speed in Taiwan is still going gangbusters.

So really, everything depends on what vintage Vintage a guy has. I can't understand why everybody isn't getting this.

Also, to further clarify: Who's on first.

My bad. I thought Greg took over the business long before 2017.

Its kind of hard to understand why builders don’t keep better records, especially considering the hoops you have to jump through in some states like Gordon mentioned wrt Mass.

@dlearl476 posted:

My bad. I thought Greg took over the business long before 2017.

Nope.

... and to be pedantic, he didn't really "take over the business". The Kirk and Mary Vintage Speedsters of Hawaiian Gardens was sold to Vintage Motorcar of Arizona. They operated out of the Vintage Speedster shop in Hawaiian Gardens for about 10 minutes before firing everybody and moving the business to Scottsdale.

Greg Leach stepped up and moved his operation (Vintage Motorcars, nee Vintage Spyders) into the old Kirk and Mary Duncan shop, and hired all of the fired Vintage Speedster workers back to work building Speedsters and Spyders in the same shop where they'd always worked.

You can't make this stuff up.

@WOLFGANG posted:

Yeah I expect it was considered their economy "performance engine".  Where just the larger P&C along with case/head enlarging was done.  It would be nice if the "performance" upgrade included a better cam, better heads, lightened flywheel/8 dowel pins BUT to keep cost down that was probably not done.  If a true build sheet was done - that would at least verify parts without a costly tear down.  Would be reassuring to know if its a name brand cam or just some old reground hunk of Chinese steel.  Mexi-crate or CB Performance build, etc.  Is the engine da bomb or a time bomb?

If it WAS one of Greg Leach's cars, it'd be pretty easy to determine what's inside, as Greg builds his engines in house.

I think Wolfgang has it right though. Unless specified otherwise, Kirk's 1914 was a stock 1600 dual port opened up at the case and heads for 94s. They received no head work, no camshaft, no ratio rockers, and no counterweighted crankshaft. Some got dual Kadrons, depending on the option selected. All got 009 copies.

Roland Rascon built Kirk's special motors for customers wanting something more. When he passed away, he was working for FAT Performance/ Rimco.

I'm not sure how a guy would be able to determine which engine was in a specific car without tearing it down. I would imagine one could get strong clues by removing an intake and seeing if any port work had been done, but you'd have to know what you were looking for. It would also be possible to determine lift and duration on the cam by removing the valve-covers and checking cam lift on the pushrod end with a dial indicator.

Good luck in your quest, Bill.

@Stan Galat posted:

Nope.

... and to be pedantic, he didn't really "take over the business". The Kirk and Mary Vintage Speedsters of Hawaiian Gardens was sold to Vintage Motorcar of Arizona. They operated out of the Vintage Speedster shop in Hawaiian Gardens for about 10 minutes before firing everybody and moving the business to Scottsdale.

Greg Leach stepped up and moved his operation (Vintage Motorcars, nee Vintage Spyders) into the old Kirk and Mary Duncan shop, and hired all of the fired Vintage Speedster workers back to work building Speedsters and Spyders in the same shop where they'd always worked.

You can't make this stuff up.

Yeah. The Arizona folks told all Kirk's guys that they'd start back up after the Christmas/New Year's holidays. When Kirk's guys showed up, the building was all but empty.

That's when Greg got involved, and moved from Stanton back to Hawaiian Gardens. I believe this was at the end of 2017 and the beginning of 2018 as far as I remember.

@Stan Galat 's and Wolfgang's "nothing special inside" assessment fits the fact that sellers of these cars don't make a point of listing cams, cranks, or heads. I'll just focus on documenting trouble-free miles.

You could maybe tweak a little more HP out of it with a performance valve job and maybe carbs.  Are you dual carbs now?  Checking cam duration would be helpful to know too.  There are ratio valve rockers that can improve cam performance too - 1.25 or 1.4.  If original VW stock rocker assembly  that would be an good $200 upgrade.

@Stan Galat posted:

Nope.

... and to be pedantic, he didn't really "take over the business". The Kirk and Mary Vintage Speedsters of Hawaiian Gardens was sold to Vintage Motorcar of Arizona. They operated out of the Vintage Speedster shop in Hawaiian Gardens for about 10 minutes before firing everybody and moving the business to Scottsdale.

Greg Leach stepped up and moved his operation (Vintage Motorcars, nee Vintage Spyders) into the old Kirk and Mary Duncan shop, and hired all of the fired Vintage Speedster workers back to work building Speedsters and Spyders in the same shop where they'd always worked.

You can't make this stuff up.

who's on first

@wrkinprogress posted:

@Stan Galat 's and Wolfgang's "nothing special inside" assessment fits the fact that sellers of these cars don't make a point of listing cams, cranks, or heads. I'll just focus on documenting trouble-free miles.

They're all special, brother.

Don't just swap in 1.4 rockers on a stock cam. High lift rockers require cams that are made for them.

Original ratio is 1.1 so 1.25 is usually a safe and effective thing to do.

The only specs I have ever seen on any of Kirk's Cars were the chalk mark on the engine and the gear ratio on the transmission. He replaced my transmission after one year. I also had to have the top end of the engine rebuilt after 3 years. Other than the usual fine tuning issues solved by Anthony the engine has runs well now for 30k.