I can attest to Bunky Bird's qualifications to handle these cases. he's a good lawyer that responds to you and keeps you up to date.

Good luck to all of you!

 

I almost joined the queue in 2008 but the market crash took away the discretionary funds.   I guess I actually benefited from a market crash!  7 years later, my funds having recovered, I found a used one for sale!

Last edited by Jethro

Jimmy V,

Bankruptcy's purpose is not to protect creditors, it's to protect the debtor.  When Lawing was faced with a $420,000 judgment about 10 years ago for defrauding a different bunch of car guys, he went BK and never paid a dime of the judgement.  Sounds kind of like someone in our current administration, eh?  Is this a great country or what?

Not sure where you're seeing his ad, since Theron cancelled his ad a few years ago.  I don't see it on my screen.

Jimmy V. posted:

It's crazy that I am looking at his advertisement on this site right now. How does this make sense?

Jimmy,
No ads on this site for quite a while. Not sure what you are seeing.
-=theron

Step #1 You win your court case and get a Judgement in your favor.  

Step #2 You need to collect the debt.  Now you have to use the courts to collect the amounts which are owed to you... this is the main problem as you may never be able to do so. 

You need to determine if it is worth the costs to sue SAS against the probability of collecting.  

IaM-Ray posted:

Step #1 You win your court case and get a Judgement in your favor.  

Step #2 You need to collect the debt.  Now you have to use the courts to collect the amounts which are owed to you... this is the main problem as you may never be able to do so. 

You need to determine if it is worth the costs to sue SAS against the probability of collecting.  

Exactly why I asked the question. 

This was method years ago in New Jersey. Discover what bank the business uses,  take the court order into the bank ... providing that there is at least that amount in the account, you obtain those funds.

Last edited by Alan Merklin

A judgement from a Tennessee court is only collectable under Tennessee law.  In summary, there are three methods of debt collection available in TN: 1) lien and execution on real property; 2) garnishment of bank accounts, wages, salaries, accounts receivable; and 3) attachment and execution on personal property, including boats, cars, inventory, stocks, etc.

Sounds pretty cut and dried, doesn't it?  What if there are no assets in the debtor's name?  Then creditor's attorney can conduct a post-judgement interview/deposition under oath to determine how the debtor supports himself, when/if he transferred assets to the name(s) of friends, relatives, etc., and the purpose of those transfers.

The creditor needs determination and a strong desire for revenge to complete the process against a wily and experienced debtor.  BTW, for those concerned, if Lawing is reading this, he's not learning anything.  Experienced freeloaders already know all the lowlife tricks.  That's how they've stayed in business and (mostly) out of jail all these years.

Theron posted:
Jimmy V. posted:

It's crazy that I am looking at his advertisement on this site right now. How does this make sense?

Jimmy,
No ads on this site for quite a while. Not sure what you are seeing.
-=theron

If someone Googles SAS and visits the website won't their ads start to show up in the boxes reserved for Google ads based on browsing history? On the right side of my screen there is a box for paid advertisements. Under that is two more boxes and they usually relate to previous browsing history. For instance I was browsing  Bell & Ross watches, now I see ads for B&R watches, etc.

Remember the couple who had the bank try to repossess their house when they paid cash for it? Post judgement, the couple showed up with court papers and a truck to collect bank computers, furniture, and any money. Things got settled real fast.

But that is only part of the picture. We also need scammers and frauds in jail with new sleeping partners. I am out for both. $20k worth.

Kudos Stephen! SAS has been defrauding folks for far too long.  Shame there isn't some jail time or further penalties that can be brought forth.

Years ago - before the popularity of the Internet, there was a similar kit car fraud. George Levine of Classic Motor Carriages (CMC) fame out of Miami FL actually got huge FL fine and jail time for his (albeit much more grandeous) Ponzi scheme back in 1991.  Here you were talking 900 customers with $5-15k hanging in limbo for months (but not years).  Sordid details below -

https://www.browardpalmbeach.c...ns-ugly-past-6459525

Wow....  Stuart Rado.  A name from the past in my dealings with CMC/GGL.

I didn't know how much Levin destroyed Rado.  Just like some groups (GGL included)  did to Curt Scott.  Lawyer up and drown your opponent with court costs.

I was lucky to have as a friend one of the best Corporate lawyers around who helped me organize my case against CMC/GGL as a Federal suit based on fraud via interstate commerce, wire fraud and US mail fraud.  I don't know how influential my case was, but by 1996 or so the Feds came down hard on Levin and company and "Auto Resolution" was formed to liquidate them (even though they continued selling junk as "Street Beasts" elsewhere in the country).

My greatest respect to you, Steve Byrd, in stepping up to help these unwitting buyers.  They were buying a dream but ended up with a nightmare, just like a lot of us others dealing with the likes of George Levin and Steve Lawing.  It's an unbelievable task to fight this sort of thing alone (at least there is a lot more grass-roots support these days on Social Media) so finding someone willing to step in and help make things right is a Godsend.

Gordon  A CMC owner from Massachusetts

Yesterday I started to post my thoughts on this whole SAS imbroglio and hesitated, but I am going to post it now.  3-4 years ago when the SAS issues with zero cars but many deposits made began to surface, questions were being asked on this site regarding what the hell was going on.  There were a few "Lawing defenders" stepping up to defend the lack of deliveries while deposits were still being taken, and an ever lengthening wait list continued to grow.  Some of he Lawing defenders were Lawing's greatest marketing allies with posts like " Don't worry, you will get your car, I know Steve and he is a stand up guy, I was just at the SAS shop and saw many cars being readied for delivery or in various stages of construction, these cars are space age with so many fantastic advances Yada--yada-yada.  Other SOC members were calling BS on these sycophants so it was quite a yelling match some days.  My question is were some SAS owners guilty of being complicit   in soothing the fears of buyers old and new that caused them a monetary loss? 

Go back and read the old posts on this matter.  Very interesting.

Last edited by Jack Crosby

Thanks for the timely reminder, Jack!  Almost all of the SAS "choir" have departed, most after selling their cars, of course.  One actually left in a huff but I see that he came back.  I actually had one SAS owner, who was a popular guy at Carlisle, email me privately to ask if I would please stop bashing SAS, not because I was wrong, but because he was going to sell his car in the near future, and wanted to protect the brand.  Some friend to his pals at SOC, eh?  Where's Geraldine when you need her?

It is unfortunate.  He has a pretty good platform, IMO.  My car, which may have been sorted by previous owners, is great!  The only issue I have had in the 3 years that I have owned it, is with a faulty relay to the fuel pump. 

Jim, I know you had issues with cooling and a few other things.  But I don't have a turbo, so the cooling isn't as much of a challenge.

What really attracted me to SAS was the mid engine design, and the Subi power train.

I agree, Jethro, that the basic premise of the platform is sound.  Over time, some other honest builder will refine the concept.  Our hobby is large enough that there is room for rear vs. mid-engine, air vs. water-cooled, etc.

Jim---there was never any "choir" and certainly no one in my circle of buddies ---only a very few --that's why I said to check the old posts. . And If I had the opportunity I'd not hesitate to buy an SAS  car because they truly are sensational.  That was never in doubt and has not been an issue.  I believe the issue was 100% some business practices ---never the car.  Gotta be honest!

Last edited by Jack Crosby

There was that one cobbled-together SAS that a builder (I think Seduction) assessed on behalf of a prospective buyer.   That particular car was not built well at all.  It was an early example, though.

I wonder how far along Special Edition is on their mid-engine project.

Hi Jack,

I wasn't accusing you of singing in the choir.  However, are the following a large enough group to be a choir:  Charles Gardener, John Eastman, Nolan Scott, and John Hallstrand?  Since you insist on honesty, I guess I should have said "quartet" (smile), or, since I was once one of the faithful, possibly a quintet.

SAS cars can be quality, but, from my experience, it's inconsistent throughout a single build.  Parts of my car were well done, but parts were amateurish to the point of criminal negligence.  As the poorly-done portions of the build reveal themselves, I would repair/replace as needed.  It took me 5 years to get the car that I should have received when I picked it up in Knoxville.

I rode in Nolan's which was an automatic - great car.  Hoss's was beautiful to look at (never got a ride). I remember seeing an ivory (?) coupe show one year at Carlisle that was outstanding too. So, yup, just abysmal illegal business practices.

Jimmy,
No ads on this site for quite a while. Not sure what you are seeing.
-=theron

In reply the Theron's post, see the pic of my computer screen yesterday. The SAS advertisement and link to his site is present on the right side of the screen. I guess it is an automatic function of Google's marketing ??

Screen 1-10-19

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I think Theron meant that he doesn't host paid SAS advertising any more.  The google ad content is outside his control but I think you can flag it as not-relative/redundant.

Lots of ink for SAS, how is justice not served by getting an incorrigeable individual.  Any tax evasion investigation being done

That SAS ad is just a pop up---nothing to do with the SOC site.  As soon as it became apparent that SAS was who they are Theron booted them along with other change that vastly raised the quality of this site's discourse. 

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