Need Input -- On choices and spending my money

There are a number of SAS owners that frequent this site, and I am sure that they'll chime in. I don't own one, but I have ridden in and driven several, and they are all very nice cars.  I know of no current owners that have anything negative to say about them.  One of the frequent visitors here (John "Hoss" Hallstrand) owns the very first cabriolet sold to the public and has had it for some seven years now.  He can provide a wealth of information as he is also very close to Steve's shop in Knoxville and occasionally takes his car there for service.  Steve's cars are much more civilized that the original Speedsters and most of the recreations except for Intermeccanicas.  The cabriolet body seems much more in line with their level of sophistication in my opinion, and certainly offers more room and weather protection.

One thing - The 18-24 month delivery time may be a tad optimistic as Steve's is a very small shop.  Those who have waited it out maintain that it was well worth it.  Just don't be surprised if you see a bunch of posts come up about the wait, many from folks who've never done business with SAS. I've been to Steve's shop a couple of times and he's helped me with some touch-up paint.  I consider him a good fellow.

You should consider joining us at the Carlisle Import and Kit Car Nationals this May.  There will be several SAS cars there and we all are happy to let folks ride in or drive our cars.  Several of the manufacturers will be there as well (Beck, IM, JPS), although we have yet to convince Steve to come.  This would be an excellent opportunity for you to meet a lot of us crazies and see what you're getting into.  Welcome to the Madness!!!!

Hi and Welcome to what everyone calls madness.  I am sure you are going to get a bunch of information...most of which is out there on trhis site.  I am building right now with Vintage.  Putting an upgraded VW motor in, chose a paint color that is from a porsche boxster that i own and love the color on, adding some other things in the interior, etc.  BUT - I picked all this because it was what I wanted in the car which is what my advice is to you.  Pick what you want and can afford.  Get the best motor you can afford.  Upgrade to the best brakes you can afford and find a way to keep your engine cool if you dont buy a water cooled car! 

Not knowing your budget, likes and dislikes it will be hard for others to answer your questions...but one thing is for sure...this is a great place to be!  Good luck! 

Thanks for the input on SAS. As someone who restores cars as a hobby I TOTALLY understand extensions and doing it right. I've been waiting on an orginial luggage rack for my TR3 from England for over a year. I just missed the last order and this guy only makes them when he gets a "proper" amount. He was upfront and I agreed.

You input on selection was true. It is my car BUT so many of you have that one thought that if I only could have. That is what I'm looking for so at least I know I have considered all the options in making my choice.

Your comments are right on about needed info about me. I drive my cars like a old lady going to church on Sunday. To me they are works of art. I do my own repairs on the older cars. For example my TR3 is a totally restored car except under the hood it has rack and pinion steering, alternator, modern radiator, total wiring upgrade, modern sound system under the dash, alarm system, LED lights, rebuilt motor with Webers and street cam, etc. I follow the philosophy of I want a old looking car NOT a old driving car.

When I really feel the need to drive fast and abuse a car from my prospective, I go to Las Vegas Speedway and drive their exotic cars. I do this once a year. You don't have time to look at the speed you are going to fast.

Hope this answers the insight required.

If you really want original looking, there is a ton of information around. You might want to visit the authentic 356 sites to determine the original paint and interior colors, tail light (beehive as opposed to teardrop) license plate light (shine up or shine down) wheels and hubcaps, rear view mirror types to name a few considerations. Year to year some of this stuff changed. Do you want to get so authentic that you have an umbrella handle hand brake under the dash, or the VW one on the tunnel between the seats?

Since you restore cars, you already know how crazy this can get. Good luck and I look forward to seeing what you have built!

Hey Hawk Monster---I like you, am a new member, and am currently trying to decide what direction to go in. Unlike you, I don't restore my cars--but like you, I treat them very well--probably better than my wife--but, they'll (the cars) will most likely look better than her in 10 years anyways. My first inclination was to go with Intermeccanica,but it seems like were talking $50 and up, and if I'm spending that much--I might as go real and just add another $40 to the mix--because, I should get the money out of it. My best friend has a true 59' Speedster with less than 25,000 miles. I have driven it numerous times and have always been disappointed with its performance, ride, and creature comforts. I think the boys here have the right approach. I'm thinking SAS as well--but a two year build is a long time. At 60, I think I have more money than time. I'll be curious to see what direction you go.

Like I mentioned with the TR3 above those old cars are beautiful to look at but they need to be brought into the modern era. I too think this forum has the right idea. After driving a real 356 I too felt that I would not pay $100,000 for a car like that.

Anyone who drives an old side curtain car knows why you need an umbrella and/or a rain coat/ slicker. Don't even get me started on changing a flat when the jack pont is inside of the car so don't get wet before changing the flat. How about using a wrench to get to rhe spare. And then there is Lucas Electric -- The Prince of Darkness. Oh well long live the replicas even with all thir warts.

This is a very interesting thread.  Great to hear from folks thinking about a Speedster replica.

There was a timewhen I was in the same boat---I had sold my two airplanes and gave up riding my BMW R-80 so I wanted a new toy more suitable to my decreasing ability and that was to be a car of some sort that I could work on and drive fopr icecream on warm summer evenings.

I have always loved the old classic Morgans, or an MG TC or TD ---maybe even an MGB or maybe a Model A Ford.  BUT every one of them was just not something you could drive any distance with.  I had always loved the Speedster too and was aware of the CMC and Fiberfab cars and was always interested in them.  Plus they were something you could actually go some[place in unlike the other classics.

Five years ago I bought an almost new Vintage Speedster with about 800 miles on it and began the work of making it into a great road and show car.  It has been a fabulous journey but that best part of "the madness" is this site and the folks you meet at the various events.  I've ben involved with many various groups but can honestly say that this is the highest quality bunch I have ever been involved with. Smart, fun, always happy to give advice and  downright fun folks. My wife and I have been to Carlisle 5 times as well as the West Coast event in Morro Bay once two years ago plus 3-4 trips to the Tail Of The Dragon in the Smokies.  Now I realize that the best part of this  crazy hobby is the great people we have here who have tought me what was necessary to end up with a car that goes anywhere anytime and has filled the garage with car show trophies. 

I am grateful thst I didn't make what would have been a big mistake going with one of the other cars I mentioned above.

Others can tell their story but for me, this was a great direction and has provided me with just as much fun as I had with the planes and bike. Plus it's something my wife will do with me and we have enjoyed every mile so far!

Spend time on this site and you will understand what I'm talking about.

Hope to see you down the road!

This is really asking for it, but I'll wade in.  If you want the best combination of authentic look and modern tech, spec out an Intermeccanica.  It will also cost you the most.  If you want a slightly less authentic looking car with modern tech and can deal with the wait, order an SAS.  If you want the best performing chassis and lightest Speedster with an interior that is not as authentic, with as modern tech as you want to add, get a Beck.  If you want a VW pan-based Speedster look at a Vintage or JPS.  They're all good and I love them all.  The cars as built and modified take on the personality of their owners and I haven't seen a 356 replica of any kind that I haven't liked.  I'm really happy with my decision to get a Beck.  The tube frame construction drew me in, but the proximity of the builder and the customer service sealed the deal.  Most things are easily changed except the original construction and the color.  My car is back for a second round of upgrades after 3 seasons of driving and learning.  I got a lot of help from everyone here when I spec'd out my car, but I still needed to log some time in the seat to know what I really wanted. The only thing that I would have done differently is have went with a non-metallic paint.  Non-metallic is really easy to touch up with touch up paint followed by Lanka Blob Remover, metallic, not so much.  I will probably repaint my car next winter to fix some accumulated minor damage issues. All other modifications are things that I didn't opt for originally, but have now decided that I want.  Maybe that's a good answer to your question. Some adds since the initial build: hydraulic clutch, CSP shifter, rear disc brakes, CHMSL, & heated seats.  Here is the link to the initial spec help that I got from the folks here.  If you look closely, you'll see that I have added some things that folks told me about initially, but I decided to wait on: https://www.speedsterowners.com...ent/2135445019233036

Like I said in my first post, the best thing you could do would be to join us in Carlisle, PA in May.  Besides the fun you'll have, it's the best opportunity to compare and contrast manufacturers and features so that you can make an informed decision.  Oh, and did I mention it's a lot of fun?

Tom:  I'd match my IM performance with that of a Beck any day!

It is very difficult to make generalizations about these cars, especially IMs, because Henry offers such a wide variety of options.  You can have a 1600 c.c. Roadster with all the luxury you want, or a six cylinder Porsche powered Speedster that will blow the doors off most cars. 

All of these cars are fun to drive, though, and that's the main point.  But, people need to do a lot of research before plunking down a wad of dough, regardless of what manufacturer they choose.

Thanks to all for your great input on the makers. Your consenus matches my evaluation of the makers. Would it be possible for us to turn to two other questions in this discussion:

1. Speedster vs. Cabriolet

2. Engine size

I'd really like your thoughts on these issues.

I guess I should also add I am not a big person and I fit nicely in 1960/70 roadsters. So any 356 would work for me size wise. My driving will be with the top down for the most part. Like many here it is truly a second, third or fifth car.  Perhaps there is one other consideration that will influence your response to engine and size. I live at 7000' MSL so even short trips require large changes of altitude. This never seems to be an issue with my nore modern fuel injected/computer controlled cars but I always seem to loss performance if I do not adjust those double and triple carbs on the older cars especially when I get down to sea level.

Thanks again this has been a great discussion. I will certainly consider making it back East in May. Let me see what I can work out.

Joe

Bob, my neighbor to the north.  You're closer to Carlisle than I, so I'll see you there :-).  I can't compete with your powertrain, but I still contend that the Beck chassis is superior.

Tom thanks for the link that was a great help. By the way how is the car?

The car is awesome.  I hope that you come to Carlisle to experience it first hand. There's no experience like it.  You feel like a movie star wherever you go.  If you don't like attention, don't get one.  I have never had a car photographed at stop lights like this one.

Hawk: Like you I have owned a number of authentic sport cars, TR-2(Some called it the first TR-3, it had spoke hubs and the grill was located in the back of the intake tunnel next to the radiator), TR-4 and an Austin Healey 100/6. All cars were a ball to drive as is my replica SAS 356 Cabriolet. I opted for the 2.5 engine with automatic transmission with Cruise control and glad I did; originally the automatic choice was for my wife to drive but now with a bum shoulder it's a godsend. Your choice will be yours and yours alone and like the majority of us, you'll love it. As mentioned before, come to Carlisle and look over the different cars, talk to 3 of the major builders (JPS, Beck and Intermeccanica). Take a ride with any of us and get the feel of Speedster vs Cabriolet, and VW power vs Subaru.

In regards to carbs I do understand some of the issues. In my TR3A Webbers, TR6 Strombergs, MG SUs so I do get to adjust and tune a bit. One of my winter projects is a total rebuild of the Strombergs for the TR6. Last summer I reworked the jets in the TR3. It really made a difference. I also understand valve adjusting very well. I guess I am trying to get away from that end of the business and was looking for a more modern system in the 356.

Tom I also have two Crossfires which if you are not familiar with them were the best of all worlds -- Chrysler design (Beautiful Body), Mercedes engineering and all Mercedes parts under the body (Great Engineering) and built by Karmann (sp) coach works in Germany. Karmann is the same company that designed the TR6 for British Motor Company.  The only problem is they are a red headed step child.

When I took my wife's Mercedes in for warranty worked I asked if they would work on my Crossfire and I received a very diplomatic response. "We are very sorry Mr so and so but we only work on cars with a star". Taking it to Chrysler is kind of like watching a barrel of monkeys working on something they have no clue about. So for anything serious it is me or the independent Mercedes mechanic in town.

I'm about 2000 plus miles from PA but someone mentioned Morro Bay is that like the PA experience. I'm within a 1000 or so miles of that. Anyone have any knowledge of that event.

The Morrow Bay gathering would be great fun, but no manufacturers attend.  You would likely get a good sampling of IM, JPS and Vintage cars, but I'm not sure how many Beck or SAS cars are on the west coast.  Still, you'd get a good exposure to the fun available with these cars, and you'd meet some wonderful people.

As for your two questions (that we all keep bypassing), I'll provide my humble opinion.

1. Speedster or Cabriolet:  SAS and IM offer roll-up windows on Speedsters.  Side curtains are not my favorite thing, but you can certainly make some much improved over the originals as I and others have done.  Still, if you are going to take long trips, the all-weather nature of roll-ups is worth it.  Cabriolets offer more comfortable seats (available in Speedsters, but you'll look up over the top of the windshield) and more interior room.  If I was in the market now and could afford it, either an SAS cabrio or an IM Convertible D (Roadster) would be my pick.  The Roadster is a Speedster body with a taller windshield, and Porsche installed roll-up windows on the originals.  Very rare body style.

2. What size engine: That's a complicated question, and the answer depends on what type of engine you choose and how you want to drive it.  For ease of maintenance, performance for money, etc., the water-cooled Subaru engines are swiftly gaining ground.  That's all that is available in SAS cars, and an option in IM, Beck, and JPS cars.  That's probably what I'd do if I did another car.  The EJ22 seems to be a popular choice for that, although some folks go with turbo motors for some serious performance.  If you want to go air-cooled, you need to choose between Type 1 and Type 4 engines.  A Raby Type 4 is probably the best out there, but they're pricey.  Talk to Jack Crosby for details on that choice as I know he loves his Raby setup.  There are a number of good builders of Type 1s, as well an many bad builders.  The size is not the only factor.  I have a well spec'd 1915 built by Pat Downs at CB Performance, and it's quite quick.  A basic Vintage 1915 is built to a lower spec (and price) and offers less performance, but good reliability.  If I did it again, I'd probably choose the next size up like Tim Blankinship has.  Then again, I'd probably say that if I had a larger motor.  Power IS addictive.  I'd have to say that 2110 seems to be a very common size for Type 1s in Speedsters.  I wouldn't go smaller than a well made 1915.

One vendor that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is Carrera Coachworks.  They recently obtained the assets and tooling from Thunder Ranch.  They appear to produce a nice product, but my only knowledge of them is from their posts in this site.  They are probably worth including in your research.

Just reading the post and many of us have more in common then you would expect from a random selection of people. Looks like age, old and foreign cars, and even airplanes are a common thread not to mention going top less even though in my case I need a hat to protect the head from the suns rays.

I too am a old jet jockey. To old to fly and besides it is hard to rent a machine that is faster then the speed of sound these days. I still remember fondly the old days of  "light the fires and off we go" and to think they paid me to do that.

Nolan I am curious did you buy your SAS new and what made you choose a cabriolet over the speedster. Your story is very similiar also. I really want my wife to drive the car and a automatic is really much better for her due to physical issues. Her first car was a TR coupe. She has a hard time manhandling the older cars and really needs better seats then those old cars have.

Joe

1- Depends on your comfort level. The speedster is more a wind in your hair, hearing the sounds and being in touch with the road and the car sort of thing. There are generally less creature comforts and some speedsters are more basic than others. Most speedsters will weigh 3-400lbs (If I'm way off base here someone please feel free to set me straight) less than a cabriolet, so a smaller powerplant (less than 2 liters) will be more fun in the lighter car. The Cabriolet, with it's rollup windows and 4-5 layer top is a more "civilized" motoring experience.

2- These cars originally came with about 75hp, and were peppy little beasts. A stock 1600, even with dual carburetors, is 10-15hp short, and basic, no frills transportation. It will get the car around, but that's it. If you want to enjoy the car to it's fullest, it needs more power; this is where it gets interesting.

The first upgrade I would consider is a 1915cc motor; almost all of the larger piston/cylinder assemblies require head and/or case machining, and this is the biggest bang for your buck in a stock (69mm) stroke motor. Set up with ported (stock valve) heads, Engle W110 cam and 1.25 rockers, enough carburetion to rev to a little under 6000rpm and compression set at 8 3/4 or 9:1 (will require premium fuel RELIGIOUSLY), this motor will produce somewhere around 100-105hp, require only regular maintenance, be reliable and get decent mileage (as long as you're not driving it like you stole it from the moment you get in 'till you shut it off).

The next step is a stroker motor. It doesn't matter what size it is (as long as it's over 2 liters, and yes, bigger is better), it definitely will be more fun! With some ported 40x35 heads, Engle W120/1.25 combo and proper carburetion and exhaust, the thing will produce 135-160hp, have a ton of bottom end/lower midrange (so it will still get great mileage on the highway), be easy to maintain, and did I mention it will be so much more fun???

You could take that 1915, use the big valve heads and cam it so it goes to 6500 or 7000rpm with power (and you will hit 140 or so hp), but now the lower rpms will be a "little soft" (not a lot of torque) and it will need more maintenance(new plugs and valve adjustments more often, heads will have to come off for new dual valve springs and possibly guides and seat regrinding at 10,000-15,000 miles it you like to wail on it regularly, and who doesn't?) to keep it running at it's peak (I once did this with a 1750 in a bug for a couple years) and now it's not the jump in and drive anywhere car it was. A bigger mild motor is way easier to take care of and drive than a high strung smaller motor.   

Joe Hawkman - "Welcome to the Madness", a dysfunctional malady that strikes all who involve themselves with replica Speedsters. Once the "Madness" seed has been planted (I'm thinking about getting a replica Speedster) it is constantly exacerbated by the need for more drive-time, more sunshine, more twisty roads, more power, and so on.

This is also why Baskin 'n Robins has 31 flavors. Not everybody wants the same flavor. Since you're only about 10 hrs away, come to the West Coast meet in San Luis Obispo in June and learn firsthand from owners with real-time experience the answers to most of your questions.

Online research is good, but sometimes too much information from all the experts causes 'anaylysis paralysis'. Come to SLO and get a visual and hands on feel of the cosmetics and construction, actual seat time to gauge amenities and performance and a ballpark on costs (+ options).

Many folks on this site, myself included, have been or currently involved with other car groups. But I can say hands down that this is the best group of people I have had the pleasure of meeting, hanging out with and BS'ing on-line with.

Finally, Speedster vs Roadster - not sure how to answer that question for you but with a rhetorical question...."What would James Dean drive"? I'm just saying...

Touche, Jim!!!

Or Paul Newman  (Harper).

Or Steve McQueen (his first race car)

Or Michael J. Fox (Doc Hollywood).

This is what makes this site so entertaining! As said by our favorite redhead female gearhead, Angela, - "It's like sitting on your back porch BS'ing with a bunch of friends"

@Hawk Monster - hope we'll see you in San Luis Obispo. Check 'EVENTS' thread!

Tom:

I'll take Kelly.  You can have Eddie.

Jim can fend for himself...

@Hawk Monster - hope we'll see you in San Luis Obispo. Check 'EVENTS' thread!

I did this and noted Germany, PA but no info on CA. Did I miss it? I clicked on full calendar and got only Germany and PA info. Is there a web site specfic to this gathering?

Joe

Joe - I don't know how to insert a link to that thread. On the tool bar at the top of this page click 'Forums' - click 'Forum Directory' - click 'Events' and then '2013 West Coast Annual Speedster/Spyder Meet'.  

Here's a video of the West Coast gig from last year. Its a little long (12 minutes) but you'll get an idea of the knuckleheads that hang out there!

Hawk Monster: "I really want my wife to drive the car and a automatic is really much better for her due to physical issues. Her first car was a TR coupe. She has a hard time manhandling the older cars and really needs better seats then those old cars have."

Based on those statements, an SAS cabriolet is perfect for you.  The seats are more comfy than Speedster seats.  Modern automatics are a hard fit for the other manufacturers as there aren't many available that'll work in a rear-engined layout, but SAS uses a mid-engined format that allows the Subaru drivetrain to operate in its normal orientation.  If you have a chance to burn some frequent flyer miles and make it to Carlisle you'd be able to see, ride in, and possibly drive Nolan's car as well as several other SAS cars (John Hallstrand, John Eastman, possibly Clint Owings and others).  If you do go with SAS you'll want to fly to Knoxville to speak to Steve and to get fitted for the car.  John Hallstrand lives nearby and could show you his.

...and here's a video from last year's Speedsters & Spyders on the East Coast...

I agree with Lane.

Given your age, high altitude, and wife who wants an automatic transmission, I'd recommend a Cabriolet (because they're easier to get in and out of) and a Subaru engine (modern engine with EFI for those high altitudes). 

If you do end up going with an air cooled engine I'd also recommend ordering your engine with fuel injection.

I think SAS would be a good choice for you (Subaru engine and auto tranny), but the long build time might put you off.

Yes, I know. 

She's had a very difficult life, but perhaps she is happier these days.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/fem...-away-Hollywood.html

Sorry for the thread drift...

Yes SAS sems to be the local choice but I could be dead waiting 2 plus years. Does anyone have experience with Carrera Coachworks in CA. They also use a Subrau engine 2.5 170 HP and they do an automatic option.

Oh, man! Another fantasy down the tube....

Do a Google Image search for Kelly, she ain't the same old Kelly you may have in the memory bank.

Was that necessary Rich, I cannot un-see that.