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I am very excited and happy to announce that I now a new member of the Beck family. This past week I signed the Order Form and sent in my deposit to purchase a new Beck Super Coupe.

I elected to build it in an "Outlaw Style". I chose Slate Gray as the exterior color with an Oxblood leather interior.

My build will not utilize the Subaru motor, but instead will utilize a 3.2 L Boxster S motor and a 5 speed out of a Base Boxster. They have to use the 5 speed because the 6 speed from the Boxster S is too long. The motor is being built by Jake Raby from Flat 6. It will have approximately 280 HP at the flywheel and 260 at the rear wheels.

Some of the other highlights for my build are:

  1. Center Fuel Cap.
  2. Twin Marchal Driving Lights.
  3. Fuchs Wheels.
  4. Leather Hood Straps.
  5. Headlight Screens/Grills.
  6. Twin Raydyot Replica Mirrors.
  7. Roll Bar (Painted to Match the Body)
  8. Nardi Steering Wheel.
  9. Custom Dash with Black/White Gauges.
  10. Drilled Pedals.
  11. Bee Hive Tail Lights.
  12. Twin Center Tip/Outlet Custom Performance Exhaust.

    Joel Roth, Miami, Florida.

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Yes, its a Mid-engine layout. If you go on the Beck Website they have a whole description of the Super Coupe construction with photos as well. The frame is a proprietary custom tube frame with custom suspension. They made the car 2" longer and wider than a "standard" 356 Coupe. They have a number of different engine cradles that allows them to use different engines.

Last edited by Joel Roth
@Joel Roth posted:

Yes, its a Mid-engine layout. If you go on the Beck Website they have a whole description of the Super Coupe construction with photos as well. The frame is a proprietary custom tube frame with custom suspension. They made the car 2" longer and wider than a "standard" 356 Coupe. They have a number of different engine cradles that allows them to use different engines.

Yep, Lane’s is nearly finished. We have all been watching and drooling over his super coupe build for quite a while.

I’m familiar with the car as I expect to take delivery of mine in the next few weeks.  The 4-cyl Subaru is a fairly tight fit (see my build thread) and a 6-cyl Porsche will be a few inches longer.  I was wondering if they were moving the interior bulkhead forward to accommodate the increased engine length, or if the were somehow able to squeeze it in the existing space.

I’m wondering if they move the engine/transaxle back and angle the half shafts a bit like Intermeccanica does in the opposite direction.  Just engineering curiosity.  I’m sure Carey and crew have it figured out.

I seriously considered the leather hood straps but ultimately decided to leave them off for now.  I figure I’ll live with it for a while before I do more customization.

I’m just under 6’, and had plenty of room when I drove Carey’s car, but I don’t know if the seat could go any farther back.  I believe he mentioned that he’s squeezed a little more space out of the configuration, but I’m not certain.  If you’re long of torso you should be fine.  If you’re all legs, you might have an issue.  I’ll have mine at Carlisle in mid-May and if you’re there you’re welcome to try it on for size.

Last edited by Lane Anderson
@Joel Roth posted:

Hi Lane:

Yes, I saw your posts on your car, its beautiful. Use it well. A lot of what I am doing is very similar to your build.

In my conversations/emails with Carey no one every said anything about having to move the interior bulkhead forward. As far as I know they have a different engine cradle for the Boxster Motor.

I believe the Subaru trans is a bit longer than the Porsche 5 speed, which could explain how it fits.

@Joel Roth posted:

Hey Lane I wanted to ask you how is the fit on the interior. I am 6'2". How's the leg room?

I'm thinking that may depend on if one is longer of leg or torso. And the middle matters too for leg room.

Jake Raby said it should be about 280 at the flywheel and 250=260 at the rear wheels.

Speaking of wheels, I plan on going with a 15 x 7 replica Fuchs wheels with 205 65v 15 Vredelstein SportTrac 5 tires or Pirelli CN36 tires. These are the two tires Carey, from Beck recommended and he told me the wheels will fit front and back. I excited, because I love the look of these wheels. Some of the Fuchs replica wheels I have seen look a little funky.

These are the wheels:

MAXILITE Fuchs Style Wheel, 7'' x 15'', 911/930/914-6/944 (70-89)

Last edited by Joel Roth

Lane:

I spoke to Carey about the Porsche Boxster engine/transmission vs the Subaru. He  confirmed that the Porsche transmission is a little shorter, but that he will still need to move the firewall a little forward at the bottom. He said the rear 2 x 2 frame rail will get angled inward at the bottom, but that the top will remain in the stock location. They will adjust the motor mounts as well. He said the seat location will remain the same as well as everything else. He also said that they can adjust the wheelbase plus or minus 30 mm and that since they make their own axels they can adjust everything if it needs any adjusting and can also use different CV joints, including 930 type high angle ones. But that it will not be necessary for my car.

I have no idea what it will weigh, but I can always ask.

Also, 280 HP is the stock HP from a 3.2 S motor. Jake recommended keeping it stock for reliability and drivability, and I agreed. They do some tweaking of the motor when they rebuild it, and it will have a custom exhaust with headers, so the final HP may be a little higher, but I am not looking to increase the HP or get crazy. I want a nice drivable car that has enough HP to back up its looks and that sounds great and that will put a smile on my face every time I drive it.

Joel

Yeah, keep it stock.  Even dead stock that is a LOT of power for that weight.  It's going to be pretty incredible.  Do you plan to ever do a track day with it?  I figure I'll do one or two, just to give the car some exercise, given its capabilities.  That's partially why I had 4-point harnesses and the roll bar added, as well as a brake upgrade.

I really like the wheels and may consider something like that myself at some point.

Last edited by Lane Anderson

I don't plan on increasing the HP over stock. 280 HP is plenty for me. I asked Jake and Carey to make sure that 280 HP is not too much for the car/wheels/tires and brakes. They said it will be fine.  What is the weight of the car?

I am adding a 4 point roll bar as well. Not for the track, but just for added safety. I also like the look of the roll bar. Especially, for an Outlaw Style Coupe. I am going to see if they can add an X brace to it.

Joel

The X brace would have to be removable to ensure the engine cover can still be removed. You wouldn't want to drop the motor to change the oil or air filter!

So 280 hp at the flywheel, huh? That's pretty stout. 260 at the wheels is a bit of a stretch though. You lose 10-15% from drivetrain losses. That means 28-42 less at the wheels. So more like 240-250 WHP is the actual number range. Sorry to be a stickler, but numbers accuracy is a pet peeve.

This sounds like a SWEET, smooth, and VERY COOL car. Good luck with the painful waiting process! You're in good hands with Carey and crew.

@Joel Roth posted:

Jake Raby said it should be about 280 at the flywheel and 250=260 at the rear wheels.

Speaking of wheels, I plan on going with a 15 x 7 replica Fuchs wheels with 205 65v 15 Vredelstein SportTrac 5 tires or Pirelli CN36 tires. These are the two tires Carey, from Beck recommended and he told me the wheels will fit front and back. I excited, because I love the look of these wheels. Some of the Fuchs replica wheels I have seen look a little funky.

These are the wheels:

MAXILITE Fuchs Style Wheel, 7'' x 15'', 911/930/914-6/944 (70-89)

Those are really nice looking but Have you thought of putting bigger brakes in front and 16 or 17 inch wheels ... just saying

Last edited by IaM-Ray

I'm 100% positive that Carey will demand good brakes on a car with that much HP. Carey is no fool and knows and practices SAFETY first.

Probably end up with whatever brakes they use on the 904/GTS which MANY owners track. I'm sure it will have sufficient brakes even with 15" tires at around a 2000 pound weight(lighter than any 911 except maybe a 1968 911R).

I am just going with what Carey told me as to the size of the wheel being 15". I don't know if a 16" or 17 wheel will fit, and if you can get one to fit you would probably have to use a very low profile tire, which would adversely effect drivability and comfort. Remember, this is not a track car.

As far as the brakes go, their standard brakes are 4 wheel discs. I know they offer an upgraded track brake package, but I do not intend to track the car. He has not said anything in terms of needing to upgrading the brakes. But if he tells me I need to because of the increased power, of course, I will follow his recommendation.

Joel

Last edited by Joel Roth

Actually Joel, many of us have 16 inch wheels and those who have 17 inch of course makes for a harsher ride.  Since I do not know what Carey is using, my point was simply that better brakes might be advisable and asking the question to Carey might be worthwhile.  

The front end of these cars are really light so lock up is a given at times hence the better braking and the most tire you can get on the ground the better for safety even if all you do is cruise at 70mph.  

You are in good hands with Carey but I went through the exercise with my Henry at IM, and in the end I upgraded to a full 911 front end for those reasons.   I had a beam front end before.  Carey's new car has a more modern front end and frame which is excellent. In the end it's you car so you decide what you want and what your dream will consist of.  Feel free to disregard this comment

Carey has been very generous to encourage our hobby and our forum here with his suggestions and help.

Last edited by IaM-Ray

Five legends of the Speedster/Spyder Replica field (left to right): Heidi Gallo (legendary artist), Al Gallo (legendary artist's sweetie), Carey Hines (Beck) and Henry Reisner (Intermeccanica) (both Big Kahuna replica legends) and "Wild Bill" Drayer (also legendary, but for finding really cool driving roads around the greater Carlisle area).  Everyone's hanging out in the Carlisle Hotel parking lot, watching Henry work.

052411 Carey and Henry

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I just found out that there may be a "problem" with using the 3.2 L Boxster motor. The problem is not with the motor itself but with the ECU. The ECU for the 3.2 motor is different than the ECU for the 2.7 motor. Apparently, in order to use either motor they need to deactivate the engine immobilizer on the ECU, and there may be a problem with being able to do this on the 3.2 motor. We are waiting to hear from the company they use to do this to see and make sure it can be done. I will update everyone when I know.

@calmotion posted:

@Marty Grzynkowicz was the Porsche motor one of your option but chose Subie instead?

No, it was not in the discussion much back in end of 2011.  I was happy to be the first factory Subie Henry did back then.  It was a 2.2L before going back for a 2.5 Turbo in 2015.  The Turbo Subie was a complicated build but ran perfect when IM did there magic.  The only thing I missed was that Flat Six sound that only Porsche can produce. 

Marty the whine of a P 6 is pure wine of desire, yet, a turbo subie well tuned I think is lighter on the pocket book I think.  In any case I prefer the NAspirated engines for their Non Switch style of powerband.

Actually, a Subie 6, would be pretty cool too but it is more funds.

FWIW, someone put a 375hp turbo audi and 915 tranny set up and lost it on a wet road unfortunately.  I personally feel that somewhere between 240-275 is the sweet spot.  Anyway, there are many many choices.

Last edited by IaM-Ray

I understand the advantages of using the stock ECU (and Carey and company are way more experienced with all of this than I am) - but in situations like this, I wonder if a standalone ECU like MegaSquirt or Speeduino wouldn't be worth looking at.

I understand that the variable cams are the secret sauce, and I've got no idea if the rudimentary ECUs could handle it, but the whole "immobilizer" circuitry thing is really putting a brake on running a lot of tasty modern engines in alternate applications.

@DannyP

I use stock ECU for a variety of reasons, but simple drivability is probably the top.  MOST clients don't have the desire or ability to write tune files, and I've played with a LOT of various "self tuning" aftermarket standalone, but nothing ever compares to the reliability and ease of a stock ECU, OBD-II diagnostics, etc...

As Joel knows, we are just starting to play with watercooled P car drivetrains, so I am certainly not the expert int hat field (yet) so I'll revert to my Subaru experience.  I have yet to see any standalone that even starts to compare to the stock Subaru ECU in terms od the advanced self-tuning ability, cold start, warm up, adaptation to driving style, adaptation to environment/altitude/humidity/ambient temp/etc...

@et al.

And as for the earlier fitment questions, this will be the first in a coupe, and I'm smart enough to know it will come with its own challenges, however almost 3" of the Boxster engine added length is low on the motor and  mounts, so the minor chassis changes for fitment will happen at the base of the seat, which is already a dead space, thus I can leave the firewall completely unchanged at the top of the seat where it matters for leg room.  Gearbox is shorter, which helps.  Plus I can run 930 high angle CVs with high angle CV boots, which allows me to take up some additional offset without CV stress or the fear of wearing out stock CV boots through misalignment.

My subie tech is a rally racer who has a direct relationship with Subaru and sells ultra high performance fully modified new cars under the Subaru wing with their blessing.  They use an aftermarket tune but their techs are out there skilled.  
Having said that most of us are far from our builder so a stock écu is the answer to get local service without much suffering and why fix or change something that has a million cars using it?

i would differ to the builders choice he knows  what after sales service from far away is like.

Great explanation Carey

Last edited by IaM-Ray

@chines1

I totally get why you use factory ECUs. Their startup, warmup, and drivability are VERY hard to match. Their ease-of-use, impossible to match.

Aftermarket is more flexible, but requires way more TIME. You don't have the time in your endless car-building to devote to tuning. I'm going through this right now with my EFI. It's not easy as it is my first, but I'm getting there making little advances. Warm, the engine drives great, I'm probably 80% there. Once it's polished warm I'll start on the cold start/warmup curves. Did I say this takes time?

The immobilizer thing is going to come to a head though, just like the chassis thing you've already tackled: getting away from the VW frame/pan/suspension roots. A non-factory ECU is going to be a necessity for performance.

RE: CV joints:

On my Cayman, the axles are angled forward about 10 degrees or so. I'm sure it is to provide decent legroom in the mid-engine dimensions. Your plan sounds perfect for dealing with the additional length of the Boxster motor. Carry on.

Last edited by DannyP
@Joel Roth posted:

Great news. I spoke to Carey and he told me they have a fix for the ECU issue. They will use the ECU from the 2.7 L base motor for which they can remove the immobilizer, and re-flash it and install the software needed to run the 3.2 L S motor. So, the 3.2 L S motor is a go.

Joel

Fabulous! The Porsche immobilizer code is really a pain. Congratulations to Carey for finding a solution!

You are absolutely right. My understanding is that they are going to use a 5 speed out of a base Boxster and have it rebuilt by Parker from IO Racing in Upland.  I was told by Carey that Parker builds 5 speed gearboxes for the Boxster racing series. So I am sure his finished product will be a very nice unit.

I checked back on my earlier emails with Carey and he told me that he would estimate the weight of the finish car to be about 2,000 lbs. The engine/transmission from the Porsche weighs more than the Subaru, and they are going to install a larger (double normal capacity) fuel tank.

So when its all said and done, I hopefully will have 280 HP in a 2000 lbs. car.

Joel

@Joel Roth posted:

IaM-Ray:

Sargent Schultz from Hogan's Hero's. I loved that show.

Yes me too, when my son was young we watched a lot of DVD's of the show.  One day at school he started to imitate Newkirk do a Heil Hitler imitation and got in trouble. The school calls his mom and she had to explain that the 6 y.o. was just playing ... the PC police were out at the school.   We laughed.



heil  here

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Last edited by IaM-Ray
@Joel Roth posted:

OK, on to the next item. The shifter. I am not a big fan of the traditional shifter in most 356's. I was thinking of something a little more modern, but not too crazy. Tasteful but sporty. Suggestions?

@Joel Roth

Joel, long story short, here'e a link to fellow SOCer Kevin Zagar's shop, CoolRyde Customs, located in San Diego CA. Just wanted to offer more options for you to consider.

https://www.coolrydescustoms.com/crc-ss-shifters.html

Take some time to look through his website, very cool stuff on there.

A Boxster/Cayman/911 transmission has two separate inputs for shifting on the exterior of the transmission. It was designed for cables from the get-go.

Subaru has a conventional shift rod like VW and Porsche USED to.

Anyway, THIS thread is about Joel's Boxster-powered Beck coupe. Subaru talk is well, unnecessary thread drift.

If you want to talk about Subaru shift setups, start your own thread.

Last edited by DannyP

For Joel's build the plan is to use the stock Boxster cable shifter, straight from the donor car with custom length cables for routing purposes.  The plastic base will hide in the tunnel so all you'll see if a shift lever/boot/knob.  The trans is setup for cables from the factory and it works very well.  No point in trying to reinvent the wheel there.

To address the other comments:

Subaru trans as a mid engine, I use the stock Subaru rod shifter, lengthened and offset to reverse motion.  It is tight and crisp.

Subaru trans as a rear engine I use a Vintage Speed shifter with modified VW linkage.  The VS shifter has been out standard for many years now.

VW trans as a rear engine, same as above.

VW trans as a mid engine, I use a modified PBS cable system.  Best cable shifter for midVW ever IMHO

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