New Electronic Distributor

Robert, This is awesome! How cool to know that the install is so simple. That Pat Downs fellow -- he knows a few things! Smart man. 

Can't wait to see your car again soon and hear it run!

Anand

Sounds like a pretty productive Speedster week for you, Robert! Looking forward to hanging out with you guys in SLO. Hope you booked your room, my brutha!

MusbJim posted:

Sounds like a pretty productive Speedster week for you, Robert! Looking forward to hanging out with you guys in SLO. Hope you booked your room, my brutha!

Haven't yet but we are going.  Probably get that done tomorrow. It's only Thursday and I've burned through two tanks of gas in the Speedster already this week. I had knee surgery last week so I'll be off for 4-6 weeks and I ain't wasting the awesome weather we've been having by not driving the Speedster.

See you in SLO.

I love to see new modern improvement made for air cooled engines.  I have done air cooled spyder, water cooled spyder and water cooled 356.  Most fun I ever had was my air cooled spyder.  Oil leaks and mechanical issues finally did it (and me) in.  I have 2 48 Dellortos in their original boxes that I have kept in the closet for over 15 years.  Would love to use them for a type 1 or a type 4 one day.  Just need to feel that I'm going to see reasonable reliability.  

Phil-

That's a great summation of the state of air-cooled vs. water-cooled stuff. It shouldn't have to be a choice between reliability and parts of "iffy" provenance, but unfortunately that's what it's come to for most people. I keep hoping somebody will come along like S&S did with H/D engines and offer "Type None" castings and parts of high quality to satisfy the niche that guys fed-up with third-wold Type 1 parts are filling with water-cooled stuff, but I don't think it'll ever happen. There really isn't anything like a well-built air-cooled motor, but there's a lot of dross floating around in that gold. Too much for most people, and that's too bad.

I've got a set of Tri-Jets I just can't seem to sell as well. They're getting pretty valuable, but still... once they're gone, they're gone forever. But FWIW, 45s are sweeter, and 40s are the sweetest of all. I've got an engine that every builder in the world wants to bolt IDAs (or something bigger) onto, but I'm motoring around with 45s because they are just so much more "snappy". I happily give up a fair amount of top end to get the throttle response that only a smaller carb can give.

Of course, a decent EFI system will leave the "controlled air-leaks" of carbs for dead, but there's a certain je ne sais quoi in a well set-up set of duals that I just can't get away from. It's like what I hear crack is like-- one hit and you'll sell everything to get another.

Aftermarket EFI on an air cooled engine can be a dream or nightmare.  Mine was a nightmare.

You know this one here, I think It's the best, you can buy for money

http://www.123ignition.nl/prod...p?id=50&lang=eng

http://www.123ignition.nl/id/19.html

I'd appreciate a sorta technical explanation of how this distributor differs from an 009 with a Pertronix installed and blue-Bosch coil.  which is what I have, obviously, and what many others do too, I believe.  Anybody here able to do that??  Once you get away from mechanical breaker points, what's the diff?

I'm not a technician by any stretch of the imagination. I took the recommendation of Pat Downs and put this in.  I've included the technical data sheets about what it does so you could have a look at it. It explains what makes this dizzy different than the others. Read it and make your own decisions.

Will do, txs.

OK, now I want to know how you decide what advance curve (set of springs and stops) to use.

^^^ Plus one to that ...

The dizzy is set up out of the box for the Type 1 engines in our vehicles. I asked about it when I bought it. I just took it out of the box and installed it. If your engine requires more advance or whatnot you switch out the springs etc.  I imagine the other springs and/or bushings are needed for race engines or other engines based on their individual applications.

Bottom line though is that i trust Pat Downs and the performance parts made by CB Performance. Nothing I've bought from them has failed or let me down.

In '72 I bought a new 1.7L 914 - quickly the madness hit!  My dad was a strong electronics (communications) guy, so I bought a DELTA MARK 10B CDI (Capacitive discharge ignition) Archer kit from Radio Shack (<$40).  It was an early form of now std electronic ignition.  You could use it with any type of trigger (points, optical, magnetic).  

The  CDI would quickly build up high voltage when the points were closed, then release a VERY short burst of mega-kilo voltage to the coil when the points opened. This produced a very short duration spark capable of very high voltage (any ignition system will only develop the voltage required to spark, not the maximum it's capable of).  This high voltage allowed the old copper core plugs to be gapped at .035-40. (It did require a resistor and a diode in line with Tach feed or the tach would jump to 12 grand occasionally.  

They were also especially useful in firing plugs that had a tendency to foul like 2 strokes or old engines with oil control problems. I later moved it to an early 911 I had which did foul $12 each Platinum tipped plugs - if you lugged the engine below 4k rpms.  

The short spark duration in general did not cause coil overheating due to spark's short duration.  I used a Bosch Blue coil (any one remember the Bosch red screamer coils?). You could actually hear the capacitors charging up - a high pitch whine heard by humans and dogs alike. It had a red button to switch back to conventional ignition too.

Still have the thing waiting to be installed on the Speedie along with a blue coil, 009,  and Pertronix pickup. Seem this would work with the more precise Magnaspark dizzy (which it says won't fit a T4 due to cooling tin interference).

Can't see the pic Greg.

El Frazoo posted:

OK, now I want to know how you decide what advance curve (set of springs and stops) to use.

CB also sells a programmable ignition kit, which is what Pat installed and programmed in my slate grey outlaw.  Comes with a usb cable and software so you can program it on your laptop.  Also has plates that mount below the carbs and provide vacuum to the unit.

Wisely, since Pat did the work himself, I never touched it again, but never really felt there was a need to.

I think the cost was about double what Robert paid for his kit.

WOLFGANG posted:

In '72 I bought a new 1.7L 914 - quickly the madness hit!  My dad was a strong electronics (communications) guy, so I bought a DELTA MARK 10B CDI (Capacitive discharge ignition) Archer kit from Radio Shack (<$40).  It was an early form of now std electronic ignition.  You could use it with any type of trigger (points, optical, magnetic).  

The  CDI would quickly build up high voltage when the points were closed, then release a VERY short burst of mega-kilo voltage to the coil when the points opened. This produced a very short duration spark capable of very high voltage (any ignition system will only develop the voltage required to spark, not the maximum it's capable of).  This high voltage allowed the old copper core plugs to be gapped at .035-40. (It did require a resistor and a diode in line with Tach feed or the tach would jump to 12 grand occasionally.  

They were also especially useful in firing plugs that had a tendency to foul like 2 strokes or old engines with oil control problems. I later moved it to an early 911 I had which did foul $12 each Platinum tipped plugs - if you lugged the engine below 4k rpms.  

The short spark duration in general did not cause coil overheating due to spark's short duration.  I used a Bosch Blue coil (any one remember the Bosch red screamer coils?). You could actually hear the capacitors charging up - a high pitch whine heard by humans and dogs alike. It had a red button to switch back to conventional ignition too.

Still have the thing waiting to be installed on the Speedie along with a blue coil, 009,  and Pertronix pickup. Seem this would work with the more precise Magnaspark dizzy (which it says won't fit a T4 due to cooling tin interference).

This last paragraph made me chuckle (really), we're all still waiting Greg!!

The benefit of the magnaspark distributor over an 009 with a Compufire or Pertronix module is  increased coil dwell and the ability to create a mechanical advance curve better suited for the VW engine. Nearly everyone I have talked to converting over to the magnaspark over an 009 tells me their engine starts faster and runs smoother. The advance washers and springs that are installed in the distributor are the best I have tested for street driven vehicles. But, you can try other combinations if you wish, some cars respond even better with some fine tuning of the advance curve. I tell everyone, for under $200, its the best money you can spend for your engine. You get a fully adjustable electronic distributor, billet clamp, Taylor plug wires and a dry filled coil for $197.00

Can I get just the coil to go with my 1999 vintage Magna Spark Coil?

Same question here. I just picked up a Pentronix Flame Thrower epoxy filled coil from you guys.  It would be nice to keep that sucker.

Ted

I talked to Pat and a standard 12 volt coil can be used with the Magna Spark Distributor.  

Pat,  Txs for the further descriptions.  I have an 009 and pertronix, w/ the blue coil, and my car starts almost instantly.  As to smooth running, maybe there would be something to gain there.  My timing light shows that the 009 is a rather imprecise sort of thing, w/ the timing tending to wander around a bit, an few degrees here or there, with engine at constant speed,   at least according to my timing light. Maybe this different hardware is more stable in this regard, and that could be a plus.

Robert M posted:

. . . .

 

I bought this kit and tried installing it last night.  When it came to the distributor, the "ears" (where the cap screws on) seem to be about 45 degrees off from yours.  The passenger side ear, instead of pointing towards the back of the car, is angled towards the fan shroud, that is, on the front side of the fuel pump while yours is on the back side of the pump.  This severely limits timing adjustment. 

I made sure that I was at TDC on the #1 cylinder, so I don't think that's it.  

I went to CB Performance's website and discovered to my chagrin that, while the pages advertising Magnaspark  II kits don't mention it, the page concerning just the distributor  says it does not work with mechanical fuel pumps.  

Is there any way to move the drive shaft/cog so that the ears of the distributor are positioned like yours? 

Hi Robert, there are 3 ways to manage it.

1. turn the Distributor a quater clockwise and change the 4 ignition cables anti clockwise 

2. Use this tool (c picture below), pull the Distributorshaft out and put it in an one quater rotated position in again.

3. buy an electric fuel pump

cheers

Rotate the distributor 90* CW and move the wire 90* CCW.

O.k.  Got it figured out - basically too little sleep. 

I didn't fully appreciate the fact that distributor bodies can be spun around the rotor shaft (duh - that's why the rotor spins when the engine's running while the outer distributor body remains stationary).  I'd delete my earlier post but that would make the responses seem random plus it serves as a warning to future readers that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Thanks for the help!

Ted posted:

O.k.  Got it figured out - basically too little sleep. 

I didn't fully appreciate the fact that distributor bodies can be spun around the rotor shaft (duh - that's why the rotor spins when the engine's running while the outer distributor body remains stationary). 

Thanks for the help!

Some VW distributors have a 3* retard on the #3 lobe. So rotating the body is not an option. on every distributor.

Glenn Ring posted:

. . .

Some VW distributors have a 3* retard on the #3 lobe. So rotating the body is not an option. on every distributor.

That's a really good point (no pun intended).    

Glenn Ring posted:

Ted posted:

O.k.  Got it figured out - basically too little sleep. 

I didn't fully appreciate the fact that distributor bodies can be spun around the rotor shaft (duh - that's why the rotor spins when the engine's running while the outer distributor body remains stationary). 

Thanks for the help!

Some VW distributors have a 3* retard on the #3 lobe. So rotating the body is not an option. on every distributor.

In all the years I've been messing with these things I've never seen a list; Glenn, do you know which ones?

this is a list of all the distributors that have the 3# on 3rd cylinder. are marked with "spätzündung" the ones that don't have it are marked with "keine spätzündung"

P.s. I checked it out beforI I posted! the Magnaspark Ii doesn't have it so you can turn it a quater with no problem

cheers Jan

Thanks Jan. I've saved it for future reference. Al

Vielen Dank!

cause of your "Likes" this seems to be interesting for you? Thats, why I made a translation with all the other details.

see attached

cheers Jan

Perfect! Thanks for the translation. Now I'll save this one too...