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ALB posted:

The upper shock mount doesn't need to be moved- the wheel/tire can only come in as far as the spring plate. What may need trimming (depending how close the wheel/tire sits) is the upper suspension stop beside the shock mount. It may need to be cut back slightly.

My computer doesn't have the program to open your file, Todd, so I don't know what's there. Al

It is a photo of a Subaru axle.  I just like pictures.

WOLFGANG posted:

Does VS no longer make the ultrawide Speedster?  It isn't mentioned on their web site.  I know they favor swing axle rear - but they would do IRS.  Looks like they used 8" wide rear faux Fuch-look rims.  I can't see wanting to go larger than 8" wide rim.

widewheel

Between the wide body and the stock, my wife chose the stock, so I gotta makem' fit within the stock body.

WOLFGANG posted:

Does VS no longer make the ultrawide Speedster?  It isn't mentioned on their web site.  I know they favor swing axle rear - but they would do IRS.  Looks like they used 8" wide rear faux Fuch-look rims.  I can't see wanting to go larger than 8" wide rim.

widewheel

I don't believe there were any Super Widebody Speedsters built by anyone in 2018.  Vintage, in Arizona, had a body for one earlier in the year, but the order was canceled and they didn't even start the build.  They ended up offering the unfinished body for sale on eBay.

 

Actually Wolfgang, there is an in between version, that you are calling the "VS wide body" (not the Super Widebody), being built by Greg Leach in California right now. He is putting a Subi motor in it and I think it's been discussed on here before.

I'm sure the bodies are still available, but based on the fact that Vintage Arizona sold the body they had instead of just keeping it on the shelf, I wonder if there is some reason they don't plan to build any? Pure speculation on my part however.

I'm pretty sure Greg would build one if someone was interested   Again, speculation on my part.

Here's a picture of the one Greg was building when I was down there in October.  Again, this is not a Super Widebody, it is the in between VS flared version. 

20181209_135020

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Last edited by Troy Sloan

chassisnumber1

It seems all well and good if you buy/build a replica based on a VW pan with a VW VIN in California, because I think you can register it as a (whatever year) VW specially constructed vehicle, SPCNS, and get a smog exempt status based on the year of the pan.  But, what if you build a replica without a VW pan and associated VIN?  It appears that you register it as a SPCNS, but the year it is registered is the year you have completed the build and filled out the DMV paperwork in.  Which means that it is not smog exempt and instead is subject to the smog requirements of that year.  There are now a couple of builders that are not using a VW pan or any existing car pan, and instead using their own manufactured frame.  Has anybody bought one of these?  In California?  And if so, how did you get it to pass smog?  You sure as heck are not going to be able to pass 2018 California smog requirements with a air cooled engine.  Can you even pass 2018 requirements with a rebuilt Subaru engine?

 

Todd,

You are confused as to legal registration of replicas in California.  You cannot legally register a replica as a 19-- VW, since the vehicle no longer resembles the donor car.  The only legal means of registration in CA is to use the SPCN process, which allows you to register the car as the year it represents by body style: 56, 57, etc.  Then the car is smog-exempt for now and future registration .  There are lots of threads on this site that explain the process.  You can also find out additional info by Googling: CA SPCN registration or some variation.

Jim Kelly posted:

Todd,

You are confused as to legal registration of replicas in California.  You cannot legally register a replica as a 19-- VW, since the vehicle no longer resembles the donor car.  The only legal means of registration in CA is to use the SPCN process, which allows you to register the car as the year it represents by body style: 56, 57, etc.  Then the car is smog-exempt for now and future registration .  There are lots of threads on this site that explain the process.  You can also find out additional info by Googling: CA SPCN registration or some variation.

@Jim Kelly

I usually am confused.  I googled away, but I got confused anywhooz.

So, the procedure is to get it registered as a 57 Speedster SPCNS?

Why are so many replicas registered as VW with the year being the year of the pan?

Last edited by Todd M

The procedure is to use SPCN to register replicas in CA.  The actual registration will title the car as 2018 SPCN or whatever year it is registered.  The registration documents will specify year and make of the car that the replica resembles, i.e., 1957 Porsche Speedster.

For many years, replica owners have used the VW VIN as proof to DMV that the car is actually a 19-- VW, since the manufacturers in CA registered them that way for many years.  It's cheap, easy, and unlikely to be discovered, but, nonetheless, illegal.  See California Vehicle Code Sec. 580.

The SPCN process is a way for California replica owners to legalize their registration.  BTW, the California AG's Office is fully aware of the current state of replica registration, so they're not learning anything from this post.  After all, that's why the enacted the SPCN process, at the behest of SEMA.  Many other states, with SEMA's help,  have also enacted legislation to enable replica, hot rod, and street rod owners to register legally.

Last edited by Jim Kelly

Why are so many replicas registered as VW with the year being the year of the pan?

Used to be you could register them that way in Calif --- and pay sales tax on a rapted out VW bug.  Calif got on to that trick and has worked to get their more than fair share of your $$$.  You can still register as a VW in many other states and get away with it.  At least until a car savvy trooper pulls you over or you are in a car accident - then the "Orange 2 door VW T1 Sedan" kicks you in the butt.  It still seems that titled as a VW is better for reducing resale issues in most states and overseas sales.  Some states will title it as a 1957 Porsche Speedster which can make resale costly as some states will look that up and say "Oh, your car has a Blue Book value of $125k and the tax will be $9999!"  Virginia even has an annual real property tax of 4.5% of value so that could add up real fast!

Doesn't CA still only issue 500 SPCN registrations per year?

Last edited by WOLFGANG

 

Jim Kelly posted:

 

...For many years, replica owners have used the VW VIN as proof to DMV that the car is actually a 19-- VW, since the manufacturers in CA registered them that way for many years. ...

 

And there's the meat of it.

Most of us with a VS or JPS just accepted it as a fait accompli that our cars were registered as VW's . (Wow, I told my eighth grade English teacher I'd never use the term 'fait accompli' for the rest of my life, and here, just 57 years later, I'm proven wrong.)

The registration as a VW was already done for us when we bought our cars from the builder. We could have then gone through the SPCN process to make our cars legal, but... well, maybe next year. In the meantime, as long as I send my registration check off to the state every year, for some reason, they don't seem to mind.

Technically, as far as DMV is concerned, I didn't buy a new 2013 Vintage Speedster from VS, I bought a used VW. Kirk was not a new car manufacturer. To be one, his cars would have had to pass all current regs for new cars - smog, crash worthiness, etc. And a new VS would have weighed about 4000 pounds, made about six hp, and cost about $100,000.

 

Wolfgang,

You seem to be saying that it was legal in the past to register a replica in California as the VW from which the pan/VIN # was taken.  That's incorrect.  CVC Sec. 580 is the statute on point, stating that a SPCN vehicle no longer resembles the donor car, and it was enacted in 1983.  Thus, registering a replica as the donor vehicle which it no longer resembles has been illegal for the last 35 years.  Perhaps I miscontrued your post.

My research indicates the 500 SPCN registrations/year has been more than enough for the last few years.

@Jim Kelly

"The procedure is to use SPCN to register replicas in CA"

When I first read the above, I thought it said, "The procedure is to use SPCN to register Alpacas in CA."  I had to make sure I was on the correct website.

@WOLFGANG

"Doesn't CA still only issue 500 SPCN registrations per year?"

I don't know this as fact, but I read that during the last economic downturn, the DMV no longer limited the number of SPCNS registrations to 500 per year, and that policy continues.

The biggest difficulty for me with sanding is that the paper loads up, and it gets expensive to waste paper before it is worn out.  On the various car building tv shows, it seems like they start sanding the skim coat before it hardens so that it is easier and faster to sand, which should make their paper load up quickly.  But, you never see them switching out paper every 30 seconds, so is their paper loading up and they just go through a lot of sandpaper, or do they know something I don't about how to keep their paper from loading up?62700773-worker-is-sanding-filler-with-air-sander-in-auto-body-shop

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If the filler is not fully cured/hardened, then yes, the slight additional heat from the sanding pad will cause it to stick to the sandpaper.  Once it is fully hardened, then, personally, I would use a wet paper and run a trickle of water down over the area being sanded and just go at it - the paper should not clog up.  If it does, just use a Scotch Brite pad with plenty of water on the pad to remove (some of) the buildup.

If you think those guys on the Reality TV car shows are sanding (with sandpaper) less-than-cured filler, I would really doubt that.  They may just have more experience using that particular brand in their climate and know how to mix, apply and finish it.

The only time I've been successful working with not-fully-cured bondo is when, as Al mentioned, I'm starting off with a bondo rasp (looks like a cheese grater) but that just meant that I put on way too much bondo in the first place - something I do pretty regularly.  Just like when doing plastering in my house - two pounds of plaster/spackle on and then sand 1.9 pounds off (and get plaster dust all over the house, followed by the Wrath of the Wife).  "Way too much" filler is anything over 1/8" thick unless I'm using the filler to re-create a compound curve in a small space.  Otherwise, stick to the max thickness of 1/8".  

That's all too late for you, now, and I don't know how much catalyst you used, or the air temp and relative humidity you were working in, (all important) so if none of that is known you'll just have to slog through it.  Try the wet-sand paper and see if that helps, or just go through lots of dry paper til you get things smooth.

Good luck.  gn

http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/filler.html

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

f:0&vxp=mtr" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-...k:2f:0&vxp=mtr

Anybody wanna give me some guesses on how much it would cost to finish this?

I don't know what questions to ask to find out how much more work it needs.  Can anybody input on what they see is done and what still needs to be done?  The owner says quite a bit, but I don't know how to verify any of it.  It's kind of a long way to go just to have a look.  Any of you more knowledgeable wrenchers wanna give me some beta on what to look for?

Went back to the Ebay listing and sent the owner some questions.  Here they are?

Hi,

Your description says hand laid epoxy. Is the epoxy different than the two part used with fiberglass?  Is your base fabric fiberglass?

How old is the EJ25?  Is it a EJ255?  253?  Do you have documentation showing how many miles are on the engine?  Is it JDM?  USdm?  Do you know what it came out of?

How many miles on the transaxle?  Or was it just recently rebuilt?

“Comes with all the glass.”  I don’t see it in the photo, so I am just checking?

Was it painted black?  Or is the epoxy black?

Did you build the chassis yourself?

What did the rack and pinion come out of?

What did the steering column come out of?

Thanks,

Todd Miller

ntoddmiller1@cox.net

nine four 9 three five 1 five two 4 zero

Do you intend to finish this yourself or have some or all of it done by a shop or a shade tree mechanic? I'd figure that out first. Make a list of what you can do, then think about it again.

Ask Dr. Clock for a review of what the project needs. Listen to him and the guys who can lay claim to having built a car, not just to have prettied one up by adding some headlight grills, hood straps and a luggage rack.

Discount the rest of us who are only qualified to provide opinions on aesthetics, myself included.

Good luck!!

Todd M posted:

f:0&vxp=mtr" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-...k:2f:0&vxp=mtr

Anybody wanna give me some guesses on how much it would cost to finish this?

I don't know what questions to ask to find out how much more work it needs.  Can anybody input on what they see is done and what still needs to be done?  The owner says quite a bit, but I don't know how to verify any of it.  It's kind of a long way to go just to have a look.  Any of you more knowledgeable wrenchers wanna give me some beta on what to look for?

Did you notice how low the sump is in the one photo?  Maybe it is just the angle, but that looks positively dangerous.

 Does the sump on a Subaru installation require changing for clearance?

Bob: IM S6 posted:
just the angle, but that looks positively dangerous.

 Does the sump on a Subaru installation require changing for clearance?

For some reason with my Soob conversion the stock sump left me with plenty of clearance. It was a 1967 pan based project though and most Soob conversions now are done on modern tube frame chassis so maybe the trannys are mounted lower in those necessitating a thinner pan? Not sure. I had a pretty much stock stance on my rear suspension too where most prefer the lower look so maybe that came into it too. 

That exhaust setup shown in the pics looks familiar though and if it is what I think it is, you'll be left with about 1 1/2" of ground clearance just because of it. 

Last edited by David Stroud IM Roadster D

I am not sure if it is an absolute requirement but I know that IM installs the tranny and engine perfectly horizontal it helps to minimize the angle of the cv joints.  If you adjust the suspension as well to be any lower, it is much safer to have the pan be lower profile.   I am sure Carey or Henry could provide us with more detailed info.

In any case if you look at this picture from my build you can see that with the small car sump, remembering that this also has a subie tranny that the engine is not at risk of damage.

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Last edited by IaM-Ray
Panhandle Bob posted:

Do you intend to finish this yourself or have some or all of it done by a shop or a shade tree mechanic? I'd figure that out first. Make a list of what you can do, then think about it again.

Ask Dr. Clock for a review of what the project needs. Listen to him and the guys who can lay claim to having built a car, not just to have prettied one up by adding some headlight grills, hood straps and a luggage rack.

Discount the rest of us who are only qualified to provide opinions on aesthetics, myself included.

Good luck!!

Finish it myself.  The list of what I can do is evolving.  The photo is of the staircase I am building of which I had no idea how to build until I started.stairs copy

Is Dr. Clock and alias for Alan?   And thank you for your opinion, whether you have ever built a car or not.

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Marty Grzynkowicz posted:

Yes, small car makes low profile sumps.  I'm sure here are other makers too.  

https://smallcar.com/vanagon/s...luminum-oil-pan.html

 

Yeah, I saw that too.  I think in the next round of questions I asked him how far it was from the bottom of the sump to the ground.  I imagine one can get shallower sumps, and I know that a dry sump is available, but the dry sump system is way expensive.  $369 isn't bad.

Last edited by Todd M

Alan Merklin is Dr. Clock and he can say with some authority what you're in for. 

That car looks like a viable project with a lot (if not all) of the right stuff. But your questions are good: where's the transaxle from, and what's really in it? (The one I got with the Spyder advertised as a 3.88 R&P turned out to be a 4.12) Provenance of the engine and electronics. You can drop a few grand on a Subie build even after getting an engine—and you absolutely should if you haven't inspected the heads, timing belts, water pump, oil separator and bearings personally. 

Interior work costs. DiY mostly won't cut it.

My main question on this one though: a stainless steel chassis? Really? Knowing the little I do about how stainless behaves under oscillation stress, I'm not sure that's absolutely as good as it might first sound.

Btw: Nice work on that curving stair case. That's a real big job for a beginner, and no picnic for an old pro either.

Last edited by edsnova

A few years back I was offered the opportunity to purchase a couple of these , I believe there was a total of around 12 ?  coupes produced that had custom chassis for electric drive train, from what I could asssume with info supplied it would be a labor intensive feat in reconfiguring the chassis for conventional drive train  even for me with ample resources ... machine & body shop friends,  that's all I know about them.

TV car shows are edited .  Buy yourself a decent face mask with changeable filters and ventilate the work area or like me you'll have a permanent hacking cough daily .  Same goes  using a rattle can of paint / primer A DA sander on a large repair area will play hell with trying to get it even, a hand or air powered long board sander  is the right tool. Paper loading up is caused by filler that has not had the right ratio of hardener hence to soft. For initial shaping start with dry 80 or 120 grit and then go wet with work 220  / 320 grit for final sand.  Rubbing the old paper against a new piece will quickly clear the filler from the used paper.  If you are going to have a shop do the final work, you might as well just take it to the shop as it stands or you may very well pay extra to have them remove what you have done in favor of their own work and materials.

 

I believe there was 12 of these couples that have custom chassis for electric drive train

Last edited by Alan Merklin

Says body is by Beck - has a Beck MCO.  I too questioned the stainless steel chassis.  I've snapped a lot of stainless steel bolts - they just aren't as strong as steel and why would you go to that expense?  Also says engine comes with the title of donor car - so it's not JDM.  Beck says they get the title for the donor engine vehicle too. With the exception of one photo it looks like it is finished paint - so maybe it just got beat up in the shop. 

I can see the interior being quite costly on a coupe.

Beck does not and never has just sold bodies.  Their frames - 3" DOM (not stainless) steel -and bodies are bonded together during assembly.  Mine was nowhere near the first, being #184, but they had kept a relatively low profile until then.  I think mine was sort of a public announcement of their presence in the market, and they have grown every year.  They have also instituted significant improvements almost every year as well.  I'd be suspicious of any car who's seller said it had a Beck body, but implied that the frame came from elsewhere - simply not true.

Todd M posted:

The biggest difficulty for me with sanding is that the paper loads up, and it gets expensive to waste paper before it is worn out.  On the various car building tv shows, it seems like they start sanding the skim coat before it hardens so that it is easier and faster to sand, which should make their paper load up quickly.  But, you never see them switching out paper every 30 seconds, so is their paper loading up and they just go through a lot of sandpaper, or do they know something I don't about how to keep their paper from loading up?

Todd,

The best advice I can give is that not all sanding papers are the same.  You get what you pay for!  It took me too many years (including building a Speedster from just a pan and body) to learn that the expensive paper is worth the money.  The Harbor Freight stuff is cheaper, but does not come close to the performance of quality name brand paper.  I use Norton Gold PSA paper and discs for blocking and finishing.  If you hit it with compressed air occasionally it will cut a long time and not load up.  There are other options for particular applications.  Go to a local auto paint supply store and ask, they won't mind selling you expensive stuff!  

You may already know this, but it's one of those things that I should have learned 40 years ago.  Projects would have been much less work!  

James

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