Good one, Mitch!
“I am fortunate that there is a machine shop near me who never charges me anything. He just says bring baked goods.”
Sounds like the guys from ”Car Talk”.
Chocolate chip cookies work for me - I have a couple of welders, too - And a plasma cutter.
But next time, Todd, try swinging by your local high school or Voc Ed school and ask if the metal shop could do it, especially if you supply the materials.
Gordon Nichols posted:But next time, Todd, try swinging by your local high school or Voc Ed school and ask if the metal shop could do it, especially if you supply the materials.
Excellent idea!
1/4 steel is quite hefty! You could go with aluminum which is much easier to cut, drill and tap. Even a cheap HF step drill would enlarge holes to correct size.
WOLFGANG posted:1/4 steel is quite hefty! You could go with aluminum which is much easier to cut, drill and tap. Even a cheap HF step drill would enlarge holes to correct size.
I was thinking 1/8" might be adequate, but that was based on no experience or actual knowledge, so I doubled it so I could be sure. At 1/4" it appears that both plates will add about 3 1/2 lbs, so the trade off isn't too bad. The plates will be welded to a steel frame. For future reference, is it even possible to weld aluminum to steel? No, I am not being sarcastic. I truly don't know. Any why do metal workers use those step down bits rather than regular drill bits?
Sacto Mitch posted:
Todd M posted:
Took my drawings to a local machine shop. OH MY GOSH!! $250!!! Any suggestions for the next time I need something fabricated.
Maybe if you spec to the nearest .01", instead of .001", he'll knock a decimal place off his quote, too.
After looking at the dimensions on the brake part drawings and the dimensions I calc'd, I realized that three places after the decimal was fantasy on my part, so I called the machinist and gave him the less stringent tolerance news this morning.
Todd, No you can't weld aluminum to steel. Steel and iron based alloys are ferrous, Aluminum and its alloys are non-ferrous. You can only weld like to like, so a ferrous metal can be welded only to another ferrous metal. That doesn't even mean all ferrous metals can be welded, some alloys just don't like it. Likewise some aluminum alloys weld better than others. To join ferrous to non-ferrous you'd need to use a mechanical method and/or adhesive. A combination of both would be best (say rivets and adhesive) which is what you'll see folks use when they put aluminum floors on Lotus 7 builds. The adhesive not only helps hold it together, it acts as an insulator between the aluminum and steel to prevent galvanic corrosion (another post for another time).
Step drill bits are just too damn handy for putting holes in thin sheet metal. Let's say you want to drill a 1/2" hole in 1/16" sheet metal. If you grab a normal 1/2 drill and just try to drill it, the likelihood is that the big drill bit will catch on the thin sheet metal and either tear a hole through the sheet, or walk the hole over to a new location. To correctly drill said hole without a step bit, you center-punch to locate the hole, then use a small drill (1/8"?) to drill a pilot hole. Next go up to a 3/16" bit and drill, then swap bits to a 1/4" and drill...so forth and so on until you hit your 1/2" target. That's a lot of work for one hole, imagine you have 20 to drill! The step drill is purpose built to drill thin sheet metal and step up the size of the hole gradually until you hit your target without all that work. A good job can even be done without a drill press. Once you get up to thicker materials, like your 1/4" thick steel, then you're back to using several bits to work your way up because 1/4" isn't really sheet metal anymore, it's steel plate. Now if you had a milling machine that would open up even more possibilities for random holes in thick materials.
@JMM (Michael) - Good to know, and I will purchase the step bit because whenever I need to make a hole in sheet metal, I start with a very small bit and, ..., you know the drill. Get it, drill, get it.
I made my driving light mounts out of 1/4” thick stainless steel plate because I wanted to polish them to look good.....Forever. Had no clue about how hard stainless steel is. Had to heat the living heck out of it and then used a really big hammer just to bend it into a 90° angle and THEN had to drill four holes in each - one of them was 5/8”. Had to re-sharpen each drill size after every hole and in the end, they had all lost their hardness.
IIRC, after that was all done I threw away that drill set and bought a much harder set (for some serious bucks). Haven’t messed much with thick Stainless since.
I bought a step drill (for the first time) a few months ago, about the time I started with the holes in the type 3 backing plates, and I'm surprised at how much I use it. I bought a cheap one ($25?), not expecting it to last, and am surprised at how long it's lasted- I think the secret is to let it cut and not push it too hard. I've found that even in material .120- .150" thick (not exactly what you'd call 'sheet metal') it does such a nice job when drilling bigger sizes, and you can use the next size to bevel the hole, flip it over, do the other side and you're done.
I've never worked with stainless, Gordon, but when I was drilling transaxle parts (most stuff surface hardened to .035 or .040" depth and in some places hardened all the way through) carbide bits were the only thing that cut it (quite literally!). Carbide drill bits, although very hard, are also expensive and somewhat brittle- if you're not careful they do break (I'll let you guess how loud and what I yelled when I broke a $60 1/4" bit after destroying 2 1/8" bits at $25 apiece). I've also mastered getting the hard broken chunks out of the holes (no small feat until you figure it out) so you can finish what you're doing and keep things balanced. Al
Bottom line: making/adjusting your pedal/MC bulkheads is a PIA. Here's me spending all day last year just moving one mounting hole down 3/4 of an inch:
ALB posted:I bought a step drill (for the first time) a few months ago, about the time I started with the holes in the type 3 backing plates, and I'm surprised at how much I use it. I bought a cheap one ($25?), not expecting it to last, and am surprised at how long it's lasted- I think the secret is to let it cut and not push it too hard. I've found that even in material .120- .150" thick (not exactly what you'd call 'sheet metal') it does such a nice job when drilling bigger sizes, and you can use the next size to bevel the hole, flip it over, do the other side and you're done.
I've never worked with stainless, Gordon, but when I was drilling transaxle parts (most stuff surface hardened to .035 or .040" depth and in some places hardened all the way through) carbide bits were the only thing that cut it (quite literally!). Carbide drill bits, although very hard, are also expensive and somewhat brittle- if you're not careful they do break (I'll let you guess how loud and what I yelled when I broke a $60 1/4" bit after destroying 2 1/8" bits at $25 apiece). I've also mastered getting the hard broken chunks out of the holes (no small feat until you figure it out) so you can finish what you're doing and keep things balanced. Al
Now I don't feel so bad paying someone else to do it.
I'll make it for you. PM me.
Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi posted:I'll make it for you. PM me.
Thanks, but I took the drawing to the machine shop on Monday, which is when I found out how much it cost.
You're paying way too much
Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi posted:You're paying way too much
I won't argue that. Are you a machinist? Next time, I will pm you a drawing, or email you a drawing.
Harbor Freight step drills are great. I have a 3 drill set, goes up to 1/2". I think I paid 9 bucks for them. One has about 6 steps, one has double that. Then I bought a larger set of two, they go up to an inch or so. I think $17 was the price. Been using them for years now, and as Al says, very handy for cleaning/chamfering the holes with the next size step. I use them on aluminum and steel sheet, and up to 3/16" mild steel.
I agree, Todd, 250 is steep. $5 in materials tops, one weld and a few holes. Seriously?
I could do it for $50 and still make a profit.
@DANNYP Per my previous posting ..... If I still lived in PA, I would do this for you during lunch hour at my friends machine shop for cost of material ( $5) two cases of beer ($38) and postage ($7) Somehow matches Danny's estimate....
Great Minds Think Alike :~)
As a small business owner, the price doesn’t surprise me even a little bit. Machinists are in business to make money. They have enormous overhead along with liability and work comp insurance.
Regarding step bits, and whatnot: step bits are not really designed for material any thicker than about 16 gauge, and that assumes you’re using a very high-quality bit (like a Lennox). We use Lennox double fluted step bits to drill electrical knockouts all the time. The bits we use are about $85 wholesale. To drill the bigger holes in this piece, what I would use is a holesaw in a drill press. The guy making it would have to watch the turning speed and use cutting oil, or the bit would be ruined.
Yeah, lots of us could do it outselves for a case of beer or whatever, because this piece is really a pretty simple fabrication and doesn’t need a machinist. But the OP took it to a machine shop with tolerances to 3 decimal places. We would built it to +/- 1/16”.
The machine shop is trying to stay in business by making a profit. The guy who owns the machine shop probably doesn’t drive a Ferrari. Taking a drawing to the right place if a guy doesn’t have the tools would keep the cost down, but nobody anywhere is going to build anything one off for less than $200.
Do that 2 or 3 times, and you can buy a LOT of tools for the money.
I could buy the steel, drill bits, holesaw, and a cheap drill press for less than $250. Maybe even a cheap arc welder and a grinder. Still ahead of the game.
The satisfaction of doing it myself is worth nothing to anyone but me.
I totally understand the shop is there to make money.
Tip: drive an old beater, wear ripped jeans and let your beard grow a bit before you walk in a machine shop's door. Pull up in a fancy car wearing new Nikes fancy jeans and some gold? Bend over.
Stan Galat posted:But the OP took it to a machine shop with tolerances to 3 decimal places. We would built it to +/- 1/16”.
I called the machinist and let him know when I realized that some of the dimensions were to 3 decimal places. I had the default in my CAD program set to 3 decimal places and that is what it used when I auto dimensioned, and I did not realize it.
DannyP posted:I could buy the steel, drill bits, holesaw, and a cheap drill press for less than $250. Maybe even a cheap arc welder and a grinder. Still ahead of the game.
The satisfaction of doing it myself is worth nothing to anyone but me.
I totally understand the shop is there to make money.
Tip: drive an old beater, wear ripped jeans and let your beard grow a bit before you walk in a machine shop's door. Pull up in a fancy car wearing new Nikes fancy jeans and some gold? Bend over.
I took it to the closest machinist I could find, and that may be a lot of the cost; high rent. Embarrassingly, I somehow got one of the dimensions wrong on one of the larger holes and since it is the weekend, I had to enlarge the hole myself. So, now I know how to drill 1/4" steel plate, and smooth the edges. I dulled a bit to uselessness, but it is a bit for which I previously did not know it's use, and I don't even know how I acquired it. But, it did it's job about 3/4 of the way through the steel before it got too dull to cut. The rest I ground away by various methods. Smoothed down the edges with a dremel. Who wooda thunk? but, it worked. Next time, I will buy some steel and give it a shot myself, and if that does not turn out well, ...
Soon, it will time to weld and I am debating. Watch some youtube on 'How to Weld', borrow a friends MIG welder, practice a bit, and then try welding it myself, or hire someone to do it for me. Any advice?
Todd M posted:DannyP posted:I could buy the steel, drill bits, holesaw, and a cheap drill press for less than $250. Maybe even a cheap arc welder and a grinder. Still ahead of the game.
The satisfaction of doing it myself is worth nothing to anyone but me.
I totally understand the shop is there to make money.
Tip: drive an old beater, wear ripped jeans and let your beard grow a bit before you walk in a machine shop's door. Pull up in a fancy car wearing new Nikes fancy jeans and some gold? Bend over.
I took it to the closest machinist I could find, and that may be a lot of the cost; high rent. Embarrassingly, I somehow got one of the dimensions wrong on one of the larger holes and since it is the weekend, I had to enlarge the hole myself. So, now I know how to drill 1/4" steel plate, and smooth the edges. I dulled a bit to uselessness, but it is a bit for which I previously did not know it's use, and I don't even know how I acquired it. But, it did it's job about 3/4 of the way through the steel before it got too dull to cut. The rest I ground away by various methods. Smoothed down the edges with a dremel. Who wooda thunk? but, it worked. Next time, I will buy some steel and give it a shot myself, and if that does not turn out well, ...
Soon, it will time to weld and I am debating. Watch some youtube on 'How to Weld', borrow a friends MIG welder, practice a bit, and then try welding it myself, or hire someone to do it for me. Any advice?
If you weld it and it fails and you die a horrible death you'll wish you paid someone to do it.
If you weld it and it fails and no one gets hurt you will have learned a lesson, be a little wiser, and then pay someone to do it.
On the Job Training has its place. As Danny said above, there is satisfaction in doing some things ourselves. However, there is a big difference between learning how to do something, such as welding, and THEN using that skill on a project. There is also a big difference between welding a cosmetic piece and a structural piece. Welding a muffler bracket is not critical. Welding a frame rail or steering or brake component is.
If you try spray painting your car without experience, the worst that would happen is a poor quality paint job. If you weld a structural component on your car and it fails, that could have a serious impact on your life expectancy.
Looks like Robert and I were typing at the same time.
It never occurred to me before, but Darwin was really writing about welding.
I thought I could weld decent and did "ok" for brackets exhaust etc. Then my friend who owns a machine shop took the time to show me how to really weld. ( I am slightly better at it) "Randy" welds beads that look like a robotic welds with perfect penetration. There is a science to this, learning physical properties of various metal is an education. Overall, welding is skill that you can't learn with just a wire feed Mig and some practice on scrap metal.
Alan Merklin posted:Overall, welding is skill that you can't learn with just a wire feed Mig and some practice on scrap metal.
I really regret that I can't like this more than once.
The problem with acquiring skills is that the older one gets, the more we tend to appreciate a job done well. Learning a new skill generally means doing it poorly at first, then getting better with practice. This process can be aided by good instruction, but fumbling will never be eliminated entirely. The first time is always going to be clumsy.
There are vast differences in the difficulty of various skills we try to acquire.
Some fabrication is mostly just a matter of drilling, grinding, filing, etc.-- these skills are basic, but even here there are some basic things to know-- the hardness of various metals, the difference between various types of drill bits (black oxide, cobalt, etc.), where it's appropriate to use a step-bit, etc. My shop has about 10 different angle grinders-- not because I love buying power tools, but because I've got some set up with cutting wheels, some with grinding wheels, some with flapper wheels, and some set up with diamond masonry wheels (segmented, smooth, and cupped for various uses). Knowing what you need is not small part of getting the job done.
... but when you get to welding, it's a completely different thing. Welding is a skill that has to be acquired by practice with good tools-- taking a first step and building from there. Almost anybody can be taught fairly quickly to do a lap-joint weld with 2 pieces of clean mild steel of identical thickness, assuming the welder is already set up, the shielding gas is appropriate to the material, and the pieces are laying flat on a well-lit bench. The problem is that this is the very first step in a lifelong journey of acquiring skills and the tools needed to use them. Thinking that a lap-joint in a shop class makes you a welder is like thinking that learning G, C, and D on a nylon string guitar makes you Eddie Van Halen. Even the most instinctively talented welders have practiced and mastered various types of welding on progressively more expensive rigs before moving onto more complicated types. The whole process takes years, no matter who you are.
There are things I will weld, and things I take to a real welder. I appreciate good welds, and I know that guys who can do it well command real money. Try getting something welded on an oil field. The guys who know what they are doing won't back up their truck for less than $1000.
Painting is the same thing. I have painted cars, but I'd never be satisfied with one of my paint-jobs on a car I really care about. Guys who can really paint didn't hatch out of an egg-- they had a good deal of native talent, and they grew into doing perfect paint. If you want to learn how to paint, you are going to ruin a couple of cars along the way.
Machinists exist almost at the top of the industrial skills food-chain. Tool and die makers are at the apex. I wouldn't recommend taking anything to either one unless you really do need something made to the nearest .001.
None of us go to work for free. It's silly to think that anybody else wants to either.
All this time I thought owning the equipment made us a master 
NOT...
@Robert M @Jim Kelly @Alan Merklin @Stan Galat
Exactly what I needed to hear, (read). What y'all said makes perfect sense.
I made myself chuckle thinking back on when J. Raby used to blow his horn on here (can't deny that he has some mad skilz). But on one post (involving welding talk) Jake mentioned that he began Mig-welding (expertly) when he was 12.
Not to be out-done, I mentioned that I INVENTED Mig-welding when I was 11. 
And then George Brown said he invented it when he was 10...
Ah, the good ole days on SOC.
George George who
And then George from Texas Un-invented welding and revised everything we had been doing wrong with his own techniques and expertly showed us how inept we all were... 
Wait - Nicola T. and I invented arc welding when I was in real cloth diapers. Along with death ray, wireless electrical transmission and earthquake generator .
Some of the fiberglass in the trunk needs to be trimmed for make room for the master cylinders. What do you use to cut/saw the fiberglass?
Also, does anybody know what the distance should be from the steering wheel to the dash? Somehow, measuring the distance in our modern cars doesn't seem like it would be comparable.
Stan Galat posted:
...Painting is the same thing. ... Guys who can really paint didn't hatch out of an egg-- they had a good deal of native talent, and they grew into doing perfect paint. If you want to learn how to paint, you are going to ruin a couple of cars along the way...
So I guess I can take some comfort in knowing that the guy who painted my car was on his way to becoming someone who can really paint.
Sacto Mitch posted:Stan Galat posted:
...Painting is the same thing. ... Guys who can really paint didn't hatch out of an egg-- they had a good deal of native talent, and they grew into doing perfect paint. If you want to learn how to paint, you are going to ruin a couple of cars along the way...
So I guess I can take some comfort in knowing that the guy who painted my car was on his way to becoming someone who can really paint.
Yeah, about that...
It's true that every good painter probably ruined a car or two along the way.
I am living evidence that not everybody who ruined a car eventually became a good painter.
Todd wrote: "Also, does anybody know what the distance should be from the steering wheel to the dash?"
Without going out to the garage, uncovering the car, getting all of the various and sundry things away from the door so I can open it (like sand buckets and snowblowers and stuff), if you have your hands on the steering wheel and simulate driving the car, you should be able to reach the headlight and wiper switches to pull on them to turn them on without removing your hands from the steering wheel. THAT's the way the originals were set up (and for that reason).
How's that sound? My guess, from the couch in my Man Cave on the banks of the Quinsigamond river, is about 4" - 5" or so. YFMV...(Your fingers may vary - Besides....It's a replica. Do what'cha like).
Oops! Almost forgot. Todd also asked: "Some of the fiberglass in the trunk needs to be trimmed for make room for the master cylinders. What do you use to cut/saw the fiberglass?"
Just about anything that's handy, depending on the shape of the cut, the space available, that sort of thing. Sawzall, Saber Saw, air-operated cut-off wheel or Dremel tool with a cut-off wheel or a small (1/8" - 3/16" dia) rotary rasp. If you use a saw, get a blade with as many teeth as possible for a finer cut (24 - 40 teeth per inch (TPI). If you use a Dremel, use a ceramic cut off wheel for metal, not one of the fiber and resin versions, for a smoother cut or a fine rasp (my personal fav.). On either, don't run the blade too fast as it will heat up the resin and might burn it (don't worry....It just discolors.)
No matter what you use, please wear a really good dust mask. Don't be like this dumb-ass, trimming a headlight bucket free-hand without a mask (notice that everyone else is looking away, they're so embarrassed). Nice "Top-Siders, though.
Sacto Mitch posted:
Stan Galat posted:
...Painting is the same thing. ... Guys who can really paint didn't hatch out of an egg-- they had a good deal of native talent, and they grew into doing perfect paint. If you want to learn how to paint, you are going to ruin a couple of cars along the way...
So I guess I can take some comfort in knowing that the guy who painted my car was on his way to becoming someone who can really paint.
Painting a car is mostly attention to detail during the body work/ prep stage- no painter can hide flaws in the substrate. As for the paint part, it's amazing what a color sand and buff can do for a poor spray effort as long as there's enough paint to work with. I've seen some pretty horrific back yard/home garage jobs turn into not bad with a little (ok, maybe a lot of) elbow grease afterwards.
"It's true that every good painter probably ruined a car or two along the way."
I think of it as a modern patina.
My car's a survivor - it survived a harrowing 21-day construction process in a shop that was famous for banging them out faster than anyone else. There's some history there.
Every drip, every dull spot, every patch of orange peel has a story to tell - a sandwich truck that turned up early for lunch break, a spray gun with a clogged nozzle, a shop light that cast a shadow in a bad place.
It would be easy to buff all of that out and have a perfect paint job like everyone else. But these cars are only original once.
@Gordon Nichols - Thanks
I endorse Mitch's attitude because it is the only possible correct attitude. As the CCCA (Clown Car Club/America) decrees—and as every concours judge learns and wields like a cudgel—it's not the cars...and it's not the people: it's the provenance!
I want a CCCA badge.
Mitch- get on it, man.
Me, too!
OK Stan, here ya go:
I'm in!
edsnova posted:I endorse Mitch's attitude because it is the only possible correct attitude. As the CCCA (Clown Car Club/America) decrees—and as every concours judge learns and wields like a cudgel—it's not the cars...and it's not the people: it's the provenance!
Ed: I live in the provenance of Ontario, Canada. Does that count?
Sacto Mitch posted:OK Stan, here ya go:
Good start, Mitch.
But since everybody is an artist: let’s make the clown a little creepier, and replace the horse with a tow-truck.
And why limit it to the U.S.?
Make it the PCCW.
I like it as is with the PCCA similarity to PCA.
Hilarious! If you make em' I'm in for one.
Bob, this was for amusement only (caution, you must be 18 years or older to play).
Besides, I don't have access to the vast badge-making resources of a @Rich Drewek , and the design probably wouldn't work as a badge anyhow (too many colors, blends, etc.). And then there's the prospect of a looming tow-truck controversy, and you know how ugly that could get (flatbed vs. closed, single axle vs. dual axle, low profile vs. full height, etc.).
I'd also face the prospect of being visited by humorless, black-suited agents of the PCA, and being threatened with financial ruin. I might also be blackballed from any jewelers that are official dealers for Rolex watches.
And life's just too short for that.
I did notice, though, that VistaPrint will put a design on those transparent, press-on stickers, and those might look a lot like the PCA windshield decals. The cost would be almost free per sticker. This might be worth it for use at car shows, just to see the reaction of passing PCA members and their staff.
I might look into the stickers thing.
Sacto Mitch posted:
Bob, this was for amusement only (caution, you must be 18 years or older to play).
Besides, I don't have access to the vast badge-making resources of a @Rich Drewek , and the design probably wouldn't work as a badge anyhow (too many colors, blends, etc.). And then there's the prospect of a looming tow-truck controversy, and you know how ugly that could get (flatbed vs. closed, single axle vs. dual axle, low profile vs. full height, etc.).
I'd also face the prospect of being visited by humorless, black-suited agents of the PCA, and being threatened with financial ruin. I might also be blackballed from any jewelers that are official dealers for Rolex watches.
And life's just too short for that.
I did notice, though, that VistaPrint will put a design on those transparent, press-on stickers, and those might look a lot like the PCA windshield decals. The cost would be almost free per sticker. This might be worth it for use at car shows, just to see the reaction of passing PCA members and their staff.
I might look into the stickers thing.
Please do.
I'd like to resolve the tow-truck controversy : I humbly submit-
... and please make the clown creepier.
If it's PCCA with a creepier clown and 'Mater as the tow truck count me in! Stickers would be cheap enough.
As for badges, how about something with Speedsterowners.com in smaller print across the top (around the edge?), some sort of simple Speedster silhouette/line drawing with 'Outcast' in bigger letters across the bottom?
We couldn't use this as it's someone's art, but something like
but from a slightly elevated front/3 quarter view, just enough contrast across the top lines to define shape (these pics are just to give people an idea of the view/angle I'm thinking of- I'm not much of an artist, so I'm really of no help here)-
or even this (without the roll bar)-
I like the top one ....
I’m in, make it a glass removable tacky thing.
Marty Grzynkowicz posted:I’m in, make it a glass removable tacky thing.
I didn't seriously think this would be something folks might want to put on their cars.
Let me look at creepier clown art. (I've got no drawing skills, and am limited to clip-art with no copyright issues). I think the Disney tow-truck is out for that reason. It's amazing how even places like VistaPrint will refuse an order on copyright grounds.
I kinda liked the clown I went with - it's got that clueless, about-to-be-blindsided look that I have every time I turn the key on the Speedster.
Copyright story:
A friend likes a kinda pricey brand of scotch, so that's become our standard Christmas gift for him. One year, we wanted to goof him by wrapping the Scotch bottle in Budweiser wrapping paper. Believe it or don't, I couldn't find any Budweiser wrapping paper, so decided to print up some of my own.
I found some high-res Bud logos online, put them together in a big sheet in Photoshop, and went to the neighborhood (big commercial chain) copy and print shop. They refused to print out one, single sheet on copyright grounds.
I guess if they'd been P-car logos, I'd still be in jail.
I kinda liked the first one you came up with, too, Mitch. Maybe alter the logo to “North American Plastic Car Club” to include our Canadian friends if it’s not too hard, and make it 3-4” dia (or locally sizeable) and we can all print them locally.
No big deal to print it on static cling vinyl (available from Staples or Michael’s) then just cut it out and stick it to your windshield or fender.
Badda Bing, Badda Boom.
I (for one) would rock this one with pride, just as it is.
Everybody is going to have an option-- but if it can't be the "Clown Car Club of America", then "PCCA" works well enough because it's an obvious thumbing of the nose at the PCA, which gets it bunches of style points. I'd just like a creepier clown and a tow truck in the crest.
If not a tow truck, then perhaps a hubcap flying off the clown car. I don't know, I'm not the artist.
If anybody can do it, it's our man Sacto Mitch!
OK, a little democracy in action here, folks. Time to vote, option A or option B.
Here's a bozo with a little more attitude:
And, wait a minute, isn't Canada in North America?
Sacto Mitch posted:
And, wait a minute, isn't Canada in North America?
Yes.
Now, about that Ferrari horse...
"Now, about that Ferrari horse..."
Yeah, I don't get that, either, but I started with the existing PCA badge, and, for some reason, that's part of it.
You could look it up.
That is the Porsche horse. It is very similar to the Ferrari horse which is more upright.
Stan Galat posted:Sacto Mitch posted:
And, wait a minute, isn't Canada in North America?
Yes.
Now, about that Ferrari horse...
Stuttgart's Coat of Arms has the prancing horse; as Stuttgart was once grazing lands / stud farms for war horses. Stuttgart was derived from Stuotgarten in Old High German; which means "stud garden".
Interestingly enough, it is the same exact horse found on the Ferrari logo.
"Countess Paolina Barracca suggester Ferrari adopt the prancing horse on their logo in honour of their sons success in WW1 as a pilot with Stuttgart's rampant horse painted on the side of the plane."
A story I had read some time ago was that Max Hoffman was the one that urged Porsche to develop a logo for the brand. Erwin Komenda drew it up. Based upon the coat of arms of the Free People’s State of Württemberg and the Coat of Arms for Stuttgart.
Ah, right you are, Michael (and Kevin). There it is right in the middle of the Porsche crest - apparently from the coat of arms of Stuttgart.
I wonder what the coat of arms of Hawaiian Gardens looks like.
Sacto Mitch posted:I wonder what the coat of arms of Hawaiian Gardens looks like.
A flying hubcap or a flatbed tow-truck, I tell you.
Gordon Nichols posted:Todd wrote: "Also, does anybody know what the distance should be from the steering wheel to the dash?"
Without going out to the garage, uncovering the car, getting all of the various and sundry things away from the door so I can open it (like sand buckets and snowblowers and stuff), if you have your hands on the steering wheel and simulate driving the car, you should be able to reach the headlight and wiper switches to pull on them to turn them on without removing your hands from the steering wheel. THAT's the way the originals were set up (and for that reason).
How's that sound? My guess, from the couch in my Man Cave on the banks of the Quinsigamond river, is about 4" - 5" or so. YFMV...(Your fingers may vary - Besides....It's a replica. Do what'cha like).
Thanks. I didn't know if there was some safety issue or if there was some standard distance that was comfortable when moving the seat back and forth for pedal reach.
Love the badge/sticker and yeah, PCCA is MUCH better than CCCA. Also +1 on the "print 'em at home & cut 'em out yeeself" concept. The home-madier the better!
Why not have multiple different clown designs—some with a dorky, cute, benign clown, some with an evil clown...maybe some featuring multiple clowns stuffed inside a tub? Keep the PCCA font and the outer rim lettering and let a thousand clowns bloom inside.
Boom. Ed Erikson for the win.
I work on the speedster project for a few hours today and there on my PC is a frig'n Clown badge staring at me..I Love IT ! PCCA rocks... a total finger wave to the PCA ! Make them with that clear film that clings to the glass like Colorforms we played with as kids.
Maybe we can use the Porsche font for Plastic Car.
I can't leave you kids alone for a couple hours without you stirring up trouble.....
I like the Bozo from Hell on the second one.
Sacto Mitch posted:
OK, a little democracy in action here, folks. Time to vote, option A or option B.
Here's a bozo with a little more attitude:
One hand empty....why not give him a gun and say it all ? This guy's got two....
looks like a couple of bullet holes of different caliber in the clowns upper forehead.
Stan Galat posted:Sacto Mitch posted:I wonder what the coat of arms of Hawaiian Gardens looks like.
A flying hubcap or a flatbed tow-truck, I tell you.
I've told this story before.
My brother worked for the City of Hawaiian Gardens about 45 years ago. One of his chores was to dig up and remove the water meters from properties where the owners didn't pay their water bills.
One day he was removing a meter and the lady of the house had her pet monkey attack my brother while he was in the hole. My brother summarily beat the monkey to death with his shovel. Still has the scars from the monkey bites.
Big brouhaha but nothing came of it.
What that has to do with the seal or crest of the City of Hawaiian Gardens or plastic cars escapes me, but it is a pretty good story.
That is as much thread drift as I can provide.
Panhandle Bob posted:...One day he was removing a meter and the lady of the house had her pet monkey attack my brother while he was in the hole. My brother summarily beat the monkey to death with his shovel...
Say what you will about The Samba, you just never ever come across a paragraph like this over there.
I've cleaned up the bozo from another mother a bit. Bullet holes are gone. The solitary hand and the distracting balloon are gone. A little cleaner, I think, and the PCCA reads better.
Of course, as a PCCA member, I knew that the missing hand was trying to remove a Weber idle jet by feel alone, but anyone else viewing the one-armed bozo might have other thoughts.
I'm looking into procuring the Porsche font, but I'm almost certain that will lead to litigation of one form or another.
And, alas, still no tow truck.
That's great Mitch! Are we gonna let Corvettes into the club? Must a member car be all plastic or just partially plastic? Plastic interior parts shouldn't be enough to qualify or then just anybody can get in, and we wouldn't want that. You should have to be able to prove the provenance of your plastic.
Sacto Mitch posted:
And, wait a minute, isn't Canada in North America?
We are so far, but that could always change...
Instead of a clown, how about a Hip, oversized Shriner dude stuffed in a Speedster, complete with the cap. We joke about Clowns, but I am not sure I want to fly one on my ride. Appreciate the work, but it sounds like I am the minority.
Sacto Mitch posted:
I've cleaned up the bozo from another mother a bit. Bullet holes are gone. The solitary hand and the distracting balloon are gone. A little cleaner, I think, and the PCCA reads better.
Of course, as a PCCA member, I knew that the missing hand was trying to remove a Weber idle jet by feel alone, but anyone else viewing the one-armed bozo might have other thoughts.
I'm looking into procuring the Porsche font, but I'm almost certain that will lead to litigation of one form or another.
And, alas, still no tow truck.
This right here is the one.
Never name your kids: Porsche, Mercedes or Yugo as you can never get their Polo shirts custom personalized!
Art posted:
That font is close enough for government work. I'm waiting for a flying hubcap in the crest.
As far as voting, I like everything so far. My wife thinks the original is "the one", but thinks the horse ought to be a unicorn.
I am dead serious. I want to rock this on my windshield. This would be the coolest badge/stickers I've ever had, and I've got some cool ones.
You could lose the horse and put in a rendering of a five spoke Fuchs wheel. That should get the attention of a certain other club. I also like Jeanie Galat's idea of a unicorn.
I think the logo should look almost identical to the real PCA logo and have the "Plasticar club of America" words small so it can only be read within 12" by most people. We can make Plasticar a newly created word to describe our cars. Just a thought.
I stopped at Michael's this morning and they have a clear static cling vinyl, 8-1/2" X 11" that is printable on ink jet printers . You could reverse the image and print it such that you can apply it to the inside of your windshield OR they also offer an adhesive backed sheet, also clear, that you could stick to the side of the car (MUSBJIM can place one right beside his Pegasus ponies).
Just ask someone for clear, static-cling vinyl that's printable.
Sizing it to your needs can be done on a variety of apps. Personally, I would use Powerpoint and scale it, simply because that's what I know best. I'm sure Photoshop can do that, too, but I don't speak Photoshop (too many layers and things to set).
This is for Jeannie. The Prancing Unicorn:
You could replace the crest with Slayer's one for the criminally insane
Although this is probably more appropriate
Carlos! You nailed the P car script.
Carlos The P' Attorneys Mr. Ben Dover and Mr. C. Howitsfeelz will be in touch :~)
Carlos, great job!
I was going to futz around with the text tonight, but you've beaten me to it.
This looks better than the original PCA badge, which uses two different fonts for some reason. And the spacing's better, too.
I'll have my attorneys, Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe, look into it.
Which graphic program are you running, Mitch?
Carlos, I'm using Photoshop on a Mac, but had never used the text around a path function before - it seems really kludgy.
I found some pseudo-Porsche fonts online at a number of sites - all of which look a little suspicious. I was going to download and install one of them, but thanks for saving me the trouble.
I use CorelDraw on a PC. I've been doing it since the early 90s.
I created this font, so it's not really a "font", they're just individual pieces of line art.
I can send you this art as an eps or something else that you can work with. Or send me Crusty and I'll recreate the logo.
