Newbie with many questions

How did we ever get anything done before the internet?  How did we compare prices?  And features?  Maybe it was simpler because we only had one or two choices or one opinion from someone we trusted, but this is amazing.  Not only do I get the answers that I am looking for, but I get information that I didn't even think to ask.

@aircooled - If you ever need a corded rotary hammer, you can borrow mine.  It drills concrete faster than I am comfortable with.  I have learned that I HAVE to set the depth gauge or else it will drill the hole too deep before I realize what has happened.  The Dannmar site says free shipping and lift gate service is $100 extra.  Did you get it off the truck?  At truck deck height?

@DannyP - 25% off Mother's Day coupon at Harbor Freight.  That's hilarious.  Can you imagine telling your wife that you are going down to Harbor Freight to get her a Mother's Day present?

With the center portion it allows you to raise the car to do the brake jobs so if you have room on top it is one of the best options .. 

IaM-Ray posted:

With the center portion it allows you to raise the car to do the brake jobs so if you have room on top it is one of the best options .. 

I am not considering a four post lift because they are too wide.  There is a way to fit a permanent type two post lift in my garage, and the MaxJax two post could fit in multiple places in my garage.  After reading everyone's feedback, I have talked myself into the MaxJax.  Now, I have to get the best possible price including shipping and delivery to my garage, or at least drive way.  I am thinking that if I can get in on my driveway, I can open it up and use a dolly to move the heavy parts.

@aircooled - Is it possible to open the box/pallet, and move the posts or other heavy parts using a regular size dolly?  I am trying to think of ways to not have to pay extra delivery costs.

I saw a two post lift with a short height needed which was not a Max Jack as well.  I think the maxjack comes on wheels so Bruce can help there. 

My 4 post lift came with rollers that allow you to move the lift around the garage easily. They don't need to be bolted to the floor and I am glad I didn't do that. My lift came with me when I moved. The lift can be moved without taking it apart. You pull a flat bed car trailer under the lift and lower the rails down onto the trailer and the hydraulics pull the legs up off the ground and you just drive off. Easy peasey.

Jimmy V. posted:

My 4 post lift came with rollers that allow you to move the lift around the garage easily. They don't need to be bolted to the floor and I am glad I didn't do that. My lift came with me when I moved. The lift can be moved without taking it apart. You pull a flat bed car trailer under the lift and lower the rails down onto the trailer and the hydraulics pull the legs up off the ground and you just drive off. Easy peasey.

That is amazing.

Don't worry if your garage floor isn't thick enough Todd. Just use a concrete saw to cut out a square large enough to make a new footing and pour a new one if you need to. It wouldn't be that difficult.

Robert M posted:

Don't worry if your garage floor isn't thick enough Todd. Just use a concrete saw to cut out a square large enough to make a new footing and pour a new one if you need to. It wouldn't be that difficult.

That is what I figured I would do if I don't have the required 4 inches.  Since I don't have a real concrete saw, ( go figure ), I was thinking I could cut as deep as possible with a 7 1/4 with diamond blade, and then knock out the rest.  I have a older, very cheap Porter-Cable that has a diamond blade rusted on, so I use it as my "dedicated" concrete saw.  My wife has become very skilled at pointing a water jet from a squeeze bottle at the point at which the saw enters the material.

Todd..get the lift gate service. That way it will be on your driveway before you touch it. Yes, you can unbox it right there, Get out the wheels and put them on with a few other things and wheel it where you want to go.

I would think a  24" by 96" rectangular square cut out of your floor should give you enough to pour a footing between the posts.. The footing under the posts probably should be about 24" deep.   BUT ! I'm no engineer and this may not be enough. There's a few engineers on here that can give you a better and educated recommendation on this. By virtue of me making the one I did above, it's most likely one of those engineers will will dispute mine and give you a better one !   Ha....information is power ! ....Bruce

Todd....Just an after thought !  What if your concrete slab is 3 and 3/4"  to   3 and 7/8". ?

Knocking a 1 ft square hole in your concrete, then pouring it back an inch or 2 thicker will greatly weaken the pad. The net effect would be to have the lift posts essentially sitting on the ground, with a piece of concrete between the post and whatever is under the floor. If your substrate is granite sitting just below the floor, you're in great shape. Otherwise, you've built your house on the proverbial sand. 

A concrete slab is meant to be monolithic, which is why strong concrete is tied together with rebar (or at least with a metal mesh). The idea is that the load of whatever is on top is distributed through the entire slab. Knocking a hole in it takes all that away.

I would recommend that if you cut a hole, you cut it at least 3x as big as you think you'd need it to be, and then try to tie back into the existing slab by drilling in rebar horizontally. But if your slab is too thin to start with, this is a waste of time.

If your concrete is too thin, you'd be WAY better off to get a couple of decent sized pieces of 1/4" plate steel, get the concrete completely clean, then epoxy the plates to the floor, and use 1/4" drive anchors along the perimeter of the plates to secure it. The plates could have hardware welded to them to anchor the posts of your portable lift.

About the only other solution is to beat up the entire floor, dig it out a few inches, get rebar tripods, lay out a rebar grid, and pour it back to 5- 6" with higher test concrete and "kitty-hair" fiber mesh additive. 

Any Civil engineers on here?   

aircooled posted:

Todd....Just an after thought !  What if your concrete slab is 3 and 3/4"  to   3 and 7/8". ?

Nobody has a perfectly flat substrate under a floor. If it’s 3-3/4”- 3-7/8” thick, that’s a (nominal) 4” pour. 

The garage floor at the Emanuel Ln  house in Tremont was 4”, with wire over clay. It cracked. When I built the Monroe St house, I knew I wanted a 2-post lift. The floor is 6” thick (6000 lb concrete), with rebar on an 18” grid, and fiber mesh in the mix. Under the posts (under the floor) are two 36”, 2’ thick piers. 

It’s overkill, but too much is WAY better than not enough. 

Not a Civil but, like Stan I've built a couple of houses/garages and I totally agree, especially with adding a couple of 1/4"- 3/8" steel plates between the lift foot and the floor to spread the weight - I would make them twice the size of the feet.  Digging out your current floor and pouring a deeper footing would make things weaker, not stronger.  

I never expected to have a lift here when I built my current 2-car garage, so it has a 6" pour (that settled to about 5" - we poured on a 100F day) with no reinforcing rods or mesh and it sits on top of what used to be a gravel pit so it's about as stable as gravel fill can get.  It cracked in two places the first winter, but the cracks are minor.  Re-bar would have prevented that, for sure.

I’d make the plates at least 3’ square, and yes— 3/8” would be way better than 1/4”.

Gordon Nichols posted:

Not a Civil but, like Stan I've built a couple of houses/garages and I totally agree, especially with adding a couple of 1/4"- 3/8" steel plates between the lift foot and the floor to spread the weight - I would make them twice the size of the feet.  Digging out your current floor and pouring a deeper footing would make things weaker, not stronger.  

I never expected to have a lift here when I built my current 2-car garage, so it has a 6" pour (that settled to about 5" - we poured on a 100F day) with no reinforcing rods or mesh and it sits on top of what used to be a gravel pit so it's about as stable as gravel fill can get.  It cracked in two places the first winter, but the cracks are minor.  Re-bar would have prevented that, for sure.

 

Did you have to get it inspected?  Code here is: "Concrete slabs placed on grade or expansive soil shall be reinforced with not less than 1/2" reinforcing steel at 24" on center or 3/8" reinforcing steel at 18" on center, each way."  

@Stan Galat

What do you think of digging underneath the existing slab and pouring a steel and concrete foundation under the area where the posts will go?

I think that sounds a lot harder and more expensive than steel plate, and a lot less positive. 

If this was me, I’d try it with what you have, and pay close attention to the floor. If it starts cracking, then I’d get plates made. 

The shared force is downward - vertical to the floor with some load being lateral ( inward with a car on the lift ) 4" minimum concrete w/ the epoxy / bolt mounting system and a cross bar to each of the two posts will share that lateral load.

Stan Galat posted:

I think that sounds a lot harder and more expensive than steel plate, and a lot less positive. 

If this was me, I’d try it with what you have, and pay close attention to the floor. If it starts cracking, then I’d get plates made. 

Yeah, I think you are right about the relative expense and difficulty.

aircooled posted:

Todd....Just an after thought !  What if your concrete slab is 3 and 3/4"  to   3 and 7/8". ?

I'll find a "better" scale.  Or maybe I will use a meter tape and mistake the centimeters for inches.  Or maybe I will round up.  After all, I think the specs. call for 4 inches with the significant figure to an inch.  If it measures 4 1/4 inch, I will grind off a 1/4 inch.  

I knew there would be better & safer ideas for you Todd.  The 3 ft. X 3 ft X 3/8" plate, that Stan mentioned, epoxied to your floor seems like a safe one. Molly bolt that down with more of the same ones provided with the hoist and you may be good to go !  I know one thing. When you first put a car on it, you'll be standing as far aways as you can, with your finger on the switch, ( a procedure pre-visualized in your head how to get it into reverse) and a fire extinguisher in a place that you know for sure it's there. Your focus will be intense and you may be breathing shallow as your "test car" goes on a maiden voyage!..................Bruce

Todd M posted:

 Did you have to get it inspected?  Code here is: "Concrete slabs placed on grade or expansive soil shall be reinforced with not less than 1/2" reinforcing steel at 24" on center or 3/8" reinforcing steel at 18" on center, each way."  

That's quite the code.

I did everything this way (including the sidewalks, which the city absolutely did not want), but my house ended up costing 2x what any comparable home in the area could ever sell for, and I did most of it myself. Complying with the 2014 national building code (which most small municipalities have adopted wholesale) increases the cost of construction by probably 50%. Being anal-retentive accounts for the other 50%.

Codes have gone over the top. I realize that I sound like a curmudgeonly old man, but this hits a nerve. The codes regarding arc-fault/ground-fault electrical alone more than double the cost of an electrical job here. Homes stopped burning down due to electrical problems 50 years ago, when contractors started using circuit breakers (instead of fuses) and running Romex with a ground wire instead of cloth-covered 2-wire. Every successive code has been a solution in search of a problem. Don't believe me? Try running your refrigerator on a GFCI circuit.

... but the codes I contend with downstate are nothing like what @Tom Boney deals with on a daily basis.

Chicago still requires electrical in conduit, cast-freaking-iron drain pipes, and copper water lines. Some of that I can see the point on, but cast-iron DWV is worse than Sch 40 PVC by any objective metric. That particular code exists only to keep the plumbers local union busy and highly paid on into perpetuity. Running cast iron easily takes 4x as long as PVC DWV.

If I tried to build homes in the city (as Tom does), I'd end up doing bodily harm to one of the inspectors, which is why I'm (mostly) happy to live in flyover country.

"If I tried to build homes in the city (as Tom does), I'd end up doing bodily harm to one of the inspectors, which is why I'm (mostly) happy to live in flyover country."

That seems to be the feeling one gets as we get nearer to 60 ... 

Last night we got TWO text messages at 5 am, all the cell phones rang with a weird end of the world buzzer.  A notice from the police state we live in.  

Both to ask us to call 911 if we spotted a 3 y.o. kid with a young black women.   I called the radio station news this morning and ask if it was the young childs mother?  No one knew.   

But it was such that the whole world had to be woken up.... to do what exactly at 5 am?

Social media has given legislators the right to use our phones as their own... Can I get the PM's (PrimeMinister) telephone number so I can call him at 5 am regularly.  

It used to be you could turn off your tv, not buy a newspaper and have piece and quiet now you cannot even turn off your device or put it on private if you use it as a wake up alarm.  The government won't let you... I just wished they went back to air raid siren for end of the world announcements.

Todd wrote: "Code here is: "Concrete slabs placed on grade or expansive soil shall be reinforced with not less than 1/2" reinforcing steel at 24" on center or 3/8" reinforcing steel at 18" on center, each way." 

Holy Moly!  That's pretty stringent.  The key there is "expansive soil" which means soil with the potential to move/shift/frost heave/etc.  Even for that, here in southern NE they only require 4" - 6" of concrete and a 4" square steel mesh (looks like a net sitting 2" - 3" off the gravel).

So..... When I built my latest 24 sq. ft.  2-car "GarageMahal" in 2006, all they asked for was a 4" pour but the gravel ended up a little low so we poured 6" to make up for it (What's a few more bux for mud, right Stan?)

The interesting part was, we poured the floor before the garage was built and it was over 100F that day - The stuff was starting to dry as it came down the chute.  We had 6 guys, including me, leveling and floating it, one guy using one of those upside-down helicopter-looking floaters, and my wife was keeping the surface misted with a garden hose.  Fastest finish job I had ever seen.......

Stan Galat posted:

I think that sounds a lot harder and more expensive than steel plate, and a lot less positive. 

If this was me, I’d try it with what you have, and pay close attention to the floor. If it starts cracking, then I’d get plates made. 

Ordered the lift today.  Priced steel plates, also.  2' x 2' x 1/2" cost $127 each!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  2' x 2' x 1/4" cost $62 each.  I am fairly sure I can easily drill 1/4.  1/2" makes me a little squeamish.  To drill into 1/2", do you start with smaller holes and enlarge them?  My guess is that I would get one hole out of my Harbor Freight step bit.

And the 1/2" weighs 81 lbs. each!!!

Prices for those plates aren't bad. Online metal has A36 hot rolled 3/8-inch 2-foot square at $206 each today. 

Still beats the hell out of pouring a new garage floor tho.

It does. 

I will look forward to seeing picts of your set up @Todd M

As an Architect and Construction Manager, I deal w/ codes, the building department, inspectors, and the fire marshal on a daily basis.  The easiest I've dealt with were projects for the VA and Middle East.  California, as most of you know, operates like its own strict country.  I get it though.  We live in litigious times.  Everyone is so concerned about the ramifications of their approvals.  While the code may appear black and white, it does offer, to a degree, the opportunity for interpretation.  There have been a number of times I have had meetings (especially on-site) with inspectors and/or the fire marshal and got them to see things from my perspective; which culminated in a significant savings.

Don't be afraid to speak with the inspector and tap their brains.  Remember, they just want to cover their #ss.

So true, sound logic, persistence, patience and congeniality are all needed to encourage the process along as well as the law enforcers in whatever area a brought along to a new conclusion.   Sometimes a long process.

Kevin - Bay Area posted:

As an Architect and Construction Manager, I deal w/ codes, the building department, inspectors, and the fire marshal on a daily basis.  The easiest I've dealt with were projects for the VA and Middle East.  California, as most of you know, operates like its own strict country.  I get it though.  We live in litigious times.  Everyone is so concerned about the ramifications of their approvals.  While the code may appear black and white, it does offer, to a degree, the opportunity for interpretation.  There have been a number of times I have had meetings (especially on-site) with inspectors and/or the fire marshal and got them to see things from my perspective; which culminated in a significant savings.

Don't be afraid to speak with the inspector and tap their brains.  Remember, they just want to cover their #ss.

I don't mind the code so much.  The four vertical supports for that patio are 9" x 9".  The beams on top of the verticals are something like 8" x 16",  and the hip rafters are about 6" x 12" because we are in a fire zone.  The foundations for the vertical posts are 48" x 48" x 48", and I have no idea why.  I was just happy to get the plans approved and start building.

IaM-Ray posted:

I will look forward to seeing picts of your set up @Todd M

I guess that means I will have to clean up the garage.

Todd M posted:

IaM-Ray posted:

I will look forward to seeing picts of your set up @Todd M

I guess that means I will have to clean up the garage.

Hell, I'm coming over for the weekend. Nice view you have there Todd...   

Nice digs for sure.... the warm states sure give you a lot of outside living space. 

Lest we forget. Building inspectors, Building Departments ARE just covering their A$$ but the bottom line is yours under that hoist.

I would use the 1/2" plates and bevel the edges with a hand grinder so you don't trip on them. Start with a 3/8" drill and work up in 1/32" increments. Your HF drill should last. Stop and take a break and grind on the bevels while the drill cools off then go back to drilling while the hand grinder cools off. If you drill the holes for the hoist bolts first, they will make nice drill guides after the plates are bolted down. Once you got all the holes drilled you could send them out and get them powder coated for a nice and lasting appearance.

You have a beautiful home Todd ! Where do you live ? Don't forget the Pomona Swap Meet next month.............Bruce

I saw this carpet kit on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PORSC...f:g:6fkAAOSw4OhckTsS

I don't see any fasteners.  What is used to hold it down and in place?  Contact cement?

Glue, what kind I am not completely sure but I think it is contact cement.  @Alan Merklin should chime in... Mr. Builder himself _ 

Chewing gum or velcro, perhaps?

I used a can of contact cement from Home Depot..........Bruce