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Hi Everyone!

After a lot of research and deliberation, I'm really excited to announce that I've finally ordered my speedster!

For any potential buyers or fellow newbies out there, this forum is really a wealth of information and the whole community is so generous with sharing their time and knowledge. It's one of the best car forums I've been on for sure. To give back, I'd like to share my thought process in my buying decision in case it may help you decide on options or vendors out there (It can be pretty confusing understanding this landscape given the recent changes in the past couple years). Here I go!

SHOULD I BUY USED OR NEW?
Over a few weeks, I test drove, researched, and inspected 3 used speedsters. Since used speedsters can go for asking prices not significantly higher than new, I decided it was worth spending the extra couple bucks to buy new, get the options/colors I really wanted, and not deal with any potential issues I had not foreseen with a used one. 

Then begged, the next question.

WHO SHOULD I BUY FROM?
I evaluated 5 different companies (Feel free to DM me if you'd like their names). Following weeks of research, discussions, sleepless nights (this is by far one of the most exciting things I've done in years! I feel like a kid again), and tapping into the knowledge base of SOC members > Vintage Motorcars of California came out as the clear winner for me. 

I chose Vintage Motorcars of California (VMC) for the following reasons:

  • Price and Quality: Consensus from many sources was that VMC is the best value for quality. Interestingly, a dealer who has sold speedsters for over a decade, including all 5 makers I researched said that he only carries VMC now. For the price ($32k to $40k, depending on options), "you can't get better quality or workmanship". I'm personally not willing to spend $50k to $100k on a replica so that nixed out a bunch of higher priced makers. Also, my rationale is that less than 0.1% of the population will even be able to tell the difference between an original and replica (if that matters to you). I was told that Greg's (owner of Vintage Motorcars of California) engines run better and more reliably compared to some other makers - probably since he has been building engines in-house for so long with his spyders.  The dealer had mentioned he had issues with some of the makers with regards to engines not being tuned correctly, experienced popping, and needing adjustment - the dealer was not happy having to send the car to a mechanic not long after having the cars delivered. In addition, for some other makers, the cars were delivered months late whereas VMC was mostly on time. 
    Team: Although VMC is newer to building speedsters, a few SOC members told me that VMC inherited years of speedster building experience when VMC hired most of the original employees of Vintage Speedster in California (Back Story: VS was sold and the company moved from California to Arizona) who helped to build over 3,000 speedsters. The company has also been building Spyder replicas and engines in-house for over 20 years so I'm hoping the learnings and experience from there will make VMC's speedster better.
  • References: I've only received overwhelming positive feedback about Greg and the company. I've also been following VMC's instagram feed of recently shipped speedsters and SOC members have been sending me pictures of their recently built cars - INSANELY beautiful!! 
  • Speed to Build: VMC also had the quickest build time of 8 weeks from deposit!! During my initial research, I was led to believe that it would take at least 4 to 12 months to make - which almost made me pull the trigger on a used speedster. Greg sounded very confident on delivery date so will update you on if 8 weeks happens! I know that another SOC member faced a slight delay in delivery, but that Greg made it up to him.
  • Greg: Finally, Greg is a personable, straight forward guy. It's easy to deal with him, he seems happy to answer my endless questions, and respond to my texts, emails, and calls. I have noticed that he doesn't immediately respond to my texts and emails (so call if you need an immediate response), but he has told me he's always on the floor with the guys building the cars - so I only see this as a good thing as I'm sure this has an impact on quality. 


SO THERE YOU HAVE IT!

I've read on this forum that delivery times are often delayed. Greg sounded confident on delivery in 8 weeks (2nd week of January), so let's see what happens! I plan to pick up the Speedster in Hawaiian Gardens and then will drive it to NorCal (should it not be raining then). Will keep you guys updated!

Finally, thanks again to all the SOC members who provided me the information I needed to make my decision!! It took me weeks of research, a lot of time and effort, and I hope this post may help other potential buyers out there. 

Last edited by Speedster
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Tell Greg to seal the hell out of where the fiberglass meets the pan underneath.  Maybe he already does but one year I saw  Speedster at Carlisle with a tub stopper hanging from the rear view mirror!  I learned quickly that this was not a joke.  I have my dialed in now but I dried out a lot of wet floors along the way.  

While you're at it a nice idea is to slather the pan, both sides with truck bed liner and then Dynomat inside including the doors.  Ask him to make the window surround fit snugly up into the pockets in the top, test the bow area with a water hose to make certain it is waterproof and put a 3rd top latch in the center---I'd bet he already does much of this. 

If you want fog lights, get them as part of the build.  Solicit ideas from other SOC members on what they'd do as part of the build process rather than as an afterthought later.  Things like anti-sway bar in front, camber compensator, beam braces, CSP or Vintage shifter, and so forth.  Get a muffler that doesn't have to be removed to check the valves as some have gotten from other builders. 

Just my 2 cents and congratulations on your decision to start building your new Speedster!  You are in for an exciting time.  Best of luck with it!  

WNGD posted:

Congrats, so tell us more about the options you picked. Spill the beans, details details!!

Thanks @WNGD @ALB!

Here's the spec - Have to tell you, it's too EASY to get carried away and just keep adding options!!

"Buy Once, Cry Once" is the advice I was given on a previous feed  I love the clean look of minimal accessorized speedsters, however, this is going to be a driver so I'm adding more accessories that will help me have a better driving experience (eg. passenger side mirror). Also, I'm going for a more period look (eg. white wall tires). Days are passing by what feels like weeks . . .VERY EXCITED!!!

  • Colors
    • Body: Light Silver 
    • Interior: Dark Red
    • Carpets: Grey
  • Top Options
    • Removable Hard Top in Light Silver
    • Black top
    • Black full tonnuea cover
  • Interior Options
    • 3 spoke Ivory Banjo steering wheel
    • Ivory Knobs
    • Crow 2” lap belts
    • retro radio (speakers under dash and not visible)
    • 12v power port under dash
    • Toggle kill switch under dash
  • Wheel Options
    • 165/15 Coker white wall tires
    • Vintage 190 Aluminum wheels, Polished. 15x5.5 silver with moon caps
    • 5 Lug front and rear disc brakes
  • Light Options
    • Tear Drop Lights - Red
    • Fog Lights - Yellow
    • Headlight Grills 
  • Body Options 
    • Bumper guards
    • Hand-Laid Fiberglass body
    • Mirrors mounted on the doors
    • Steel sub-frame
    • Shorten recondition VW chassis
    • Two Stage Paint 
  • Trunk Options 
    • trunk carpet kit
    • Spare tire and wheel kit
  • Other Options 
    • Under dash hand brake
    • Front sway bar
    • Battery cut of switch under hood
    • 1914cc VW type 1 engine, 110 HP. Electronic Ignition. new as41 case, CB performance heads, crank, and cam , CB magna spark distributor, Kadron Carbs /with heater boxes for heat system
    • 3:88 freeway flyer transmission
Jack Crosby posted:

Tell Greg to seal the hell out of where the fiberglass meets the pan underneath.  Maybe he already does but one year I saw  Speedster at Carlisle with a tub stopper hanging from the rear view mirror!  I learned quickly that this was not a joke.  I have my dialed in now but I dried out a lot of wet floors along the way.  

While you're at it a nice idea is to slather the pan, both sides with truck bed liner and then Dynomat inside including the doors.  Ask him to make the window surround fit snugly up into the pockets in the top, test the bow area with a water hose to make certain it is waterproof and put a 3rd top latch in the center---I'd bet he already does much of this. 

If you want fog lights, get them as part of the build.  Solicit ideas from other SOC members on what they'd do as part of the build process rather than as an afterthought later.  Things like anti-sway bar in front, camber compensator, beam braces, CSP or Vintage shifter, and so forth.  Get a muffler that doesn't have to be removed to check the valves as some have gotten from other builders. 

Just my 2 cents and congratulations on your decision to start building your new Speedster!  You are in for an exciting time.  Best of luck with it!  

Thanks @Jack Crosby for the advice and please keep it coming! I will check on all of the above 

By the way, how true is that comment on being stuck with a car with 800 or so miles on it. I drove a few speedsters, which had such low mileage, however drove like they were 80 years old - no exaggeration . . . not only is SOC a lot of fun, it's definitely an incredible place to cut your teeth on replica speedsters 

Last edited by Speedster

Speedster,on the banjo wheel.;  I have seen two of them that were falling apart where the metal rods were coming out of the wheel. One here in my town and one at Carlisle.Maybe they were inferior brands of banjo wheels but see about getting one that is going to last.

Well on low mileage cars being sold, mine had only 300 miles or so on it.  The seller gave me a long story why he was selling ---something about his wife seeing a small car get clobbered in a wreck and freaking about that, blah, blah, blah.  The truth is that the car drove awful with being out of alignment, wheels out of balance, so badly in fact that I could go only 35 MPH so the 180 miles home from Monroe, LA to Hot Springs AR took 5 hours instead of 1 1/2 hours.  The shakes and shimmies were incredible but I felt I could get the car straightened, which I did.  Now it drives and rides like a dream. The real reason the car was sold with just 300 miles was that it was a disaster and the former owner was disappointed that it wasn't driving like a new Miata.  This is the main reason these cars get dumped with very low miles, I believe.  I guess you gotta be eaten up with the Madness to hang in there long enough to get some of these cars to match the vision you have when you first get the bug.  Today I love my car and it is as perfect as a Vintage Speedster can be.  Totally reliable and great performance. 

I'd bet the farm that you're new Speedster is going to meet all your expectations and will say "congratulations" in advance".   Remember though ---it's not what you expect---it's what you inspect.

Congrats Speedster, Welcome to the group. Keep us updated with Pics as the build progresses if Greg sends them. The 8 week lead time is amazing. Sure beats 8-12 plus months some builders are running. In the defense of some of the long lead times, I know one builder in Indiana that is covered with orders and that keeps their lead times long. They make a great car as well. I hope you get the car you have dreamt of and enjoy it for many years. I know I sure love and enjoy my Speedster. Glad to have you on the forum.

Jack Crosby posted:

Speedster,on the banjo wheel.;  I have seen two of them that were falling apart where the metal rods were coming out of the wheel. One here in my town and one at Carlisle.Maybe they were inferior brands of banjo wheels but see about getting one that is going to last.

Well on low mileage cars being sold, mine had only 300 miles or so on it.  The seller gave me a long story why he was selling ---something about his wife seeing a small car get clobbered in a wreck and freaking about that, blah, blah, blah.  The truth is that the car drove awful with being out of alignment, wheels out of balance, so badly in fact that I could go only 35 MPH so the 180 miles home from Monroe, LA to Hot Springs AR took 5 hours instead of 1 1/2 hours.  The shakes and shimmies were incredible but I felt I could get the car straightened, which I did.  Now it drives and rides like a dream. The real reason the car was sold with just 300 miles was that it was a disaster and the former owner was disappointed that it wasn't driving like a new Miata.  This is the main reason these cars get dumped with very low miles, I believe.  I guess you gotta be eaten up with the Madness to hang in there long enough to get some of these cars to match the vision you have when you first get the bug.  Today I love my car and it is as perfect as a Vintage Speedster can be.  Totally reliable and great performance. 

I'd bet the farm that you're new Speedster is going to meet all your expectations and will say "congratulations" in advance".   Remember though ---it's not what you expect---it's what you inspect.

@Jack Crosby hoping I don't get a poorly made Banjo steering wheel. Would be shocking as some of the originals are still going 60+ years later!

Great story and to hear you transformed the car into a reliable driver!

Jimmy V. posted:

Congrats Speedster, Welcome to the group. Keep us updated with Pics as the build progresses if Greg sends them. The 8 week lead time is amazing. Sure beats 8-12 plus months some builders are running. In the defense of some of the long lead times, I know one builder in Indiana that is covered with orders and that keeps their lead times long. They make a great car as well. I hope you get the car you have dreamt of and enjoy it for many years. I know I sure love and enjoy my Speedster. Glad to have you on the forum.

Thanks! @Blake also asked for PROGRESS PHOTOS and here they are from Vintage Motorcars today! Check out the beauty!! 

Feels like I started this thread MONTHS ago . . .and actually it has only been 2 weeks  Greg at VM has been just awesome, so happy I chose them to build my speedster.

@Jack Crosby on the sealed pan, I was told they get seam sealers, seam seal all gaps to protect the chassis front and back and then rinoline on top of that. That was never done before when Vintage Speedster was building the cars at that location. So happy to hear about all these improvements given Greg brings his experience from building Spyders over the years. 

@WNGD read the other thread and so relieved the hardtop was fitted at this stage - it wil hopefully fit like a glove!!

The shape alone is so so beautiful - I really can't believe this is my car, being built for me. I really can not believe it. BEST decision I've made in a long time!

This is 70% done before it heads to paint. If all goes as planned, the car will get painted by the end of the week!!

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Jimmy V. posted:

Question, what type of side windows are used with your hard top?

 Your car looks like it will be very nice. I am wanting a hard top on my Suby Fiberfab  so I can enjoy it more months here in Southern Indiana. It is 22 degrees here but clear and sunny. I would love to be driving my Speedster on days like today. I have heat but need a hard top and tight fitting side windows.

@Jimmy V. They come with plastic side windows to fit the hard top. I was umming and awwing about getting the hardtop now or later - but if I did it later, I would have to have had to drop the car there for a couple weeks which would have been a pain. I'm going to get the side windows copied in plexiglass, which is quite straight forward. Will let you know how that goes.

Definitely seems worth while to extend the time you can drive the car. Great to hear it is clear and sunny - means there are no excuses but to get out there and drive  

Vintage Motorcars actually puts in heated seats (as Standard), which is a bonus to make the ride that much more comfortable. I'm told they work really well from another customer who bought from Greg!

WOLFGANG posted:

I suspect to get good seal you'll need 2 sets of side curtains - one for hard top and another for the soft top.  The side curtains with a soft top are clostofobic so doubt they would get much use.

Yes exactly. 2 Sets of curtains (1 for soft top and 1 for hard top - which are said to be a little taller). i'm going to make a 3rd set in plexi glass as I heard visibility is a lot better.

Let me list the total options and put some pics up.  

Sorry color is Slate grey non metallic. Red leather interior with diamond stitch seat centers and single diamond stitch door pockets.

Heated seats

Grey square weave carpets

Fat performance type IV

5 lug front and rear disc brakes with drilled rotes and hawk padws

Porsche nipple caps

OMP pedal covers

A1 sidewinder exhaust for Type IV with twin pipes

Front trunk carpet square weave

retro radio

oil cooler with AN hoses

IRS with 12.5 narrowed trailing arms

beehive taillights LED

LED front headlights from Vintage LEDS

Dynamat Upgrade full

Mesh Headlight grills

Hard tonneau with single headrest in match diamond stitch.

Custom 4 speed transmission from Rancho.

Question do you guys think i should get the fog lights?

kiwi 1kiwi 2kiwi 3kiwi 4

 

 

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I have driving lights on my car, and use them all the time.  I'm not sure if I would use fog lights all that much, but the extra lights come in handy, living in the countryside as we do.  They are tied to the headlights, and go to high beam when the headlights do, but are on a separate off/on switch.

I like to have a dark road lit up as much as possible...

BTW, your car is going to be great.  

Last edited by Bob: IM S6

WOW, the new build here will be something.  Sounds like a lot has been figured out ahead of time.  Very cool, great chance it will be "right" right out of the box.  Two things:

Banjo st wheel: they do indeed have a look of authenticity.  I know nothing about who makes a good one and who does not.  What I do know is I had a real one in my '56 A coupe and hated it.  The horn ring did break after a while, but the whole thing was just too flexible.  Maybe my driving was a little to sporty for the wheel??  All I know for sure is that in that day, everybody thought a Nardi wheel was the cats pajamas, and everybody wanted one.  If I had had the money, I woulda.  Fast fwd 50 years: my Speedster has a Nardi wheel.  Further note: I had a '61 B coupe also, and it had a really nice three spoke Porsche wheel (aluminum??) that was quite substantial.

Hardtop: yes indeed, that might be the next big thing for my car.  I'd like that, but all has to be pretty much custom fit, so $$$.  Maybe someday . . .

I put Marchal driving lights on the car Greg did for me, and am driving in daylight with them on in addition to headlights for visibility/safety...I want to be seen.  I just switched clear bulbs to amber.  Found pair on e-bay.  Never intend to drive in fog, and can switch bulbs out in minutes if in a situation I feel I need the extra illumination.  The Marchals are a little larger and are the button/nipple glass kind, and I like the look.

Nice sounding mill there, Greg!

Idaho - You might want to begin looking for one or two replacement lenses for those Marchals.  I ran mine for over ten years then returned from a ride to see what was left of one lens (just a couple small hunks of glass) lying up against the reflector from a stone strike.  The lens for an original will also fit the reproductions, BUT they are as scarce as hen's teeth.  There is a guy in Florida who is the self-proclaimed US distributor for Marchal lights and he doesn't want to sell replacement lenses - He only wants to sell new pairs of the entire light.

Anyway, watch eBay or the Samba for a spare lens and just keep it safe in your shop til you need it.  They sometimes pop up for $50 each or so - grab one if you find one.  They were used on Porsche, Mercedes, Jaguar and some other marques so they pop up from time to time.  I got a pair of lenses for $75 last Spring.

Gordon: lenses or assemblies, as far as my search determined, aren't as much of an issue as the amber bulbs.  Buying a old case of bulbs from England.  I'll provide a photo of before and after with the bulbs, not lenses (glass covers).  My lenses are still clear, it's the bulbs with the color.  Marchal has a 3-point (ear) bulb, and getting the 12v amber version vs 6v is the issue.  Hate to have to change out for yellow/amber lenses, and the bulbs offer some flexibility.   You are correct on the pricey offers of complete pairs of Marchals, and it's likely my strategy created a longer term problem.  I've looked at the prices, and there're tough.  The easier solution is to let Greg provide the alternative fogs for less money.  Personal taste and wallet depth.  Regardless, the safety issue of lights on and drivers or fogs with color are a plus, to me.  Kiwi, you may not need this, that engine will likely take you past danger and observation in a heart beat.

Kiwi posted:

Let me list the total options and put some pics up.  

Sorry color is Slate grey non metallic. Red leather interior with diamond stitch seat centers and single diamond stitch door pockets.

Heated seats

Grey square weave carpets

Fat performance type IV

5 lug front and rear disc brakes with drilled rotes and hawk padws

Porsche nipple caps

OMP pedal covers

A1 sidewinder exhaust for Type IV with twin pipes

Front trunk carpet square weave

retro radio

oil cooler with AN hoses

IRS with 12.5 narrowed trailing arms

beehive taillights LED

LED front headlights from Vintage LEDS

Dynamat Upgrade full

Mesh Headlight grills

Hard tonneau with single headrest in match diamond stitch.

Custom 4 speed transmission from Rancho.

Question do you guys think i should get the fog lights?

kiwi 1kiwi 2kiwi 3kiwi 4

 

 

Amazing spec @Kiwi ! Sounds like it's going to be a Vintage Motorcar on STEROIDS! The engine is mindblowing! Congrats!

Quick UPDATE with Pics! The car has come back with two-stage paint and lights have been mounted!!! 

Based on advice from @Lfepardo, I've decided to add Off-White perforated vinyl headliner to my hard top to give the car a more period/classic look. Given the holidays, this change will hold back delivery by a couple weeks as it's done by a third party - but I'm totally fine with that. All good things come to those who wait! 

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@Speedster said- "Quick UPDATE with Pics! The car has come back with two-stage paint and lights have been mounted!!!"

Just to let you know- the body shell looks great, BUT the ride height is way too high, those rear wheels are kind of ugly and not even centered in the wheelwells. I don't know how you're ever going to put a transaxle, engine and front suspension in that chassis, and I can't for the life of me understand why no one else noticed...

Last edited by ALB
ALB posted:

@Speedster said- "Quick UPDATE with Pics! The car has come back with two-stage paint and lights have been mounted!!!"

Just to let you know- the body shell looks great, BUT the ride height is way too high, those rear wheels are kind of ugly and not even centered in the wheelwells. I don't know how you're ever going to put a transaxle, engine and front suspension in that chassis, and I can't for the life of me understand why no one else noticed...

Each to their own 😂 I might actually make a change order and go with the standard look where there are four wheels touching the ground!

ScarletSpeedster posted:

Newbie here... Just came across this thread and definitely following. Been spending lots of sleepless nights reading everything this site has to offer (like every newbie should do) Planning on going with VMC as well on my build. So I can't wait to see your photos and review. 

Happy New Year everyone!! And welcome ScarletSpeedster!! Sleepless nights is such an accurate description of what happens when you get into this game will report how things go when I pick up the car in a couple weeks!!! BTW definitely going with the red! 😬

NIce, Marty will love you posting his car  

 

BTW, my advice when choosing colour sample is to look at the pantone scale to see where or which series of base colours the colour you like belongs and then you know if you'll end up with green tones, blue tones or other.  helps keep the dissapointment down.   Better yet hope to seed another car in the flesh with the paint colour you want. etc

Last edited by IaM-Ray

@Speedster wrote- "...can’t believe all speedster manufacturers don’t offer 4 wheel disc brakes as standard!!"

You forget that most (if not all) rear disc brake kits add 1/2-5/8" track to each side of the car, and with the late (long axle/long bearing housing) swing axle and irs suspensions there just isn't the room. The current manufacturers are also trying to keep the base price point as low as possible to attract customers (something the Porsche factory did with new Speedsters- it was their entry level car). I know it seems a little unbelievable, but I guess not everyone needs disc brakes... 

@TheMayoMachine wrote- " I saw the pic of your fan shroud and it made me re-evaluate doing the same.  I didn’t realize how much space it opens up in the engine bay!"

Yes, they look cool as all hell and it opens up space, but it also consumes a lot more hp to spin that fan, so you better be building it big! Most examples of that style shroud aren't even close to balanced (some cylinders run significantly hotter than others) and with no thermostat the engine takes longer to warm up, which accelerates engine wear. Where these shrouds work best is at continual high speeds on the autobahn, and maybe road racing? (once you've built the inside diverters to get all the cylinders/heads to run similar temps, of course).

Yoda out (for now, but back you know I will be!)

Last edited by ALB

I had a monster type 4 engine built some 20 years ago to run in a 73 Porsche 914 I had set up for track days and auto-cross. It was bored and stroked to almost 2.4 Liters. The engine was built by some guy in New Jersey that had a shop that specialized in working on Bentley's and other exotic cars, and he side lined in type 4 engines ( he was a Latino  gentlemen that I would love to find if anyone on here recognizes his description let me know). The engine was super powerful and bullet proof during the years I thrashed it until I sold it to a group of racers to run it in PCA events and they ran it for years with no trouble. That said this thing was tricked out with amazing head work 10.5:1 CR , 44 webers  balanced, etc... It ran the stock cooling fan and tin with zero over heating issues. In my experience the factory design is far ahead of what we come up with in the after market.  I have experience with running the 911 fan shroud on a type 1 engine and I believe the cooling was never even and most of the time over cooled the engine. It was a 2387 type 1 running super flow heads that I had in a Beck Spyder. It ran high 12's in the 1/4 mile and the engine looked great in the car. So, who knows. I do love the look but personally but always worried about the longevity of the engine. That is my convoluted 2 cents worth. Sorry for the circular logic. To each is own, the main goal should be to have fun, after all it is a sort of madness anyway isn't it?

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BTW, That is the same Spyder in both pictures. One on track with the removable roll gage installed and graphics in place the other with them removed. The Spyder was bought from Kevin Hines of Special edition I think in 2006 less an engine. The car was used in a TV Pilot for a show to be called "Blow em Up"  The show consisted of taking two cars and running 1/4 mile drag races over and over until one engine blew up or quit running. This 550 Spyder was donated by Special Edition and Jake Raby donated a Monster type 4 engine to run in it. The show was never picked up. (I wonder why?) I thought it was a cool story. If Carey remembers more about it he can chime in.

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ALB posted:

@Speedster wrote- "...can’t believe all speedster manufacturers don’t offer 4 wheel disc brakes as standard!!"

You forget that most (if not all) rear disc brake kits add 1/2-5/8" track to each side of the car, and with the late (long axle/long bearing housing) swing axle and irs suspensions there just isn't the room. The current manufacturers are also trying to keep the base price point as low as possible to attract customers (something the Porsche factory did with new Speedsters- it was their entry level car). I know it seems a little unbelievable, but I guess not everyone needs disc brakes... 

@TheMayoMachine wrote- " I saw the pic of your fan shroud and it made me re-evaluate doing the same.  I didn’t realize how much space it opens up in the engine bay!"

Yes, they look cool as all hell and it opens up space, but it also consumes a lot more hp to spin that fan, so you better be building it big! Most examples of that style shroud aren't even close to balanced (some cylinders run significantly hotter than others) and with no thermostat the engine takes longer to warm up, which accelerates engine wear. Where these shrouds work best is at continual high speeds on the autobahn, and maybe road racing? (once you've built the inside diverters to get all the cylinders/heads to run similar temps, of course).

Yoda out (for now, but back you know I will be!)

Good point - I drive often and some pretty windy and steep roads so prefer discs for better braking. But not everyone needs them if they drive in different conditions for sure. 

Speedster posted:
ALB posted:

@Speedster wrote- "...can’t believe all speedster manufacturers don’t offer 4 wheel disc brakes as standard!!"

You forget that most (if not all) rear disc brake kits add 1/2-5/8" track to each side of the car, and with the late (long axle/long bearing housing) swing axle and irs suspensions there just isn't the room. The current manufacturers are also trying to keep the base price point as low as possible to attract customers (something the Porsche factory did with new Speedsters- it was their entry level car). I know it seems a little unbelievable, but I guess not everyone needs disc brakes... 

@TheMayoMachine wrote- " I saw the pic of your fan shroud and it made me re-evaluate doing the same.  I didn’t realize how much space it opens up in the engine bay!"

Yes, they look cool as all hell and it opens up space, but it also consumes a lot more hp to spin that fan, so you better be building it big! Most examples of that style shroud aren't even close to balanced (some cylinders run significantly hotter than others) and with no thermostat the engine takes longer to warm up, which accelerates engine wear. Where these shrouds work best is at continual high speeds on the autobahn, and maybe road racing? (once you've built the inside diverters to get all the cylinders/heads to run similar temps, of course).

Yoda out (for now, but back you know I will be!)

Good point - I drive often and some pretty windy and steep roads so prefer discs for better braking. But not everyone needs them if they drive in different conditions for sure. 

Discs all around are worth every penny and you can get zero offset and not worry about having enough room. I have them on them on my Speedster and now Coupe build without any fitment issues. In fact, I have enough room to add a spacer if I want...

Also, the Porsche shroud uses a different metal combo (not sure what exactly) that keeps it very lite weight. There is another brand that is supper heavy because it uses a different metal... (I'm still a noob so I can't remember the metals...)

My VS came with front discs brakes and rear drums.  I replaced the rear drums with disc brakes were plug and play with no issues about "offset" or anything else.  I started with the CB Performance rears and had the common problem of the separation of the hub's aluminum part from the steel part and replaced the hubs that were on the CB Perf.  set up with the solid steel hubs from Socal imports. Hell yes, they are heavy but my Type IV engine can't tell the difference. Now my 4 wheel disc brakes are working perfectly and I have confidence that they will continue to do so.  I would never have a Speedster without 4 wheel disc brakes and for sure, a high powered Speedster.  Drum brakes are just one step better than the mechanical brakes I once had on a '34 Ford.   We need all the safety we can muster on these plastic egg shell cars  and I'd start with brakes that are reliable. This comes from experience with a very scary panic stop with rear drums on an interstate.

If I had it to do over I'd go with the Socal product to start with.  Good price and it fits a pan based Speedster.

@Jimmy V. wrote- "I have experience with running the 911 fan shroud on a type 1 engine and I believe the cooling was never even and most of the time over cooled the engine."

"The car was used in a TV Pilot for a show to be called "Blow em Up"..."

Great observations, Jimmy. An engine that takes forever to warm up wears quicker than an engine that is designed to reach operating temps quickly. Gene Berg claimed that type 1 engines without the thermostat and flaps had 12-15% faster wear (which translates into shorter life, boys and girls) in southern California, where it never really gets all that cold. Where I live (greater Vancouver area) daily driven engines without thermostat/flap assemblies will almost never reach operating temps for 4-5 months of the year and only last 40-50,000 miles. The 1 friend that still daily drives a VW removes the rear engine apron (the 1 over the exhaust) about the end of October or early November, throws it behind the rear seat for the winter and re-installs it when the weather starts warming up again (late March or early April. And this is in a with  a properly operating thermostat/flaps assembly! 

The biggest issue with most 911 style shrouds on a 4 cylinder engine, besides not having fast warm up or using significantly more (twice as much?) hp than the type 1 fan is getting all the cylinders and heads cooling evenly-  side to side differences exist as well as getting equal amounts of air to the front and back.

One man's efforts to make a 911 shroud work-

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/fo...p;highlight=bergmann

And I remember Jake talking about their efforts for that show. I wondered what they did with the car afterward, but of course they sold it...

@*LongFella wrote- "Discs all around are worth every penny and you can get zero offset and not worry about having enough room. I have them on them on my Speedster and now Coupe build without any fitment issues. In fact, I have enough room to add a spacer if I want...

Also, the Porsche shroud uses a different metal combo (not sure what exactly) that keeps it very lite weight. There is another brand that is supper heavy because it uses a different metal... (I'm still a noob so I can't remember the metals...)"

You are right, Brian, the difference between drums and discs is not to be denied, and if you drive the car in a sporting manner even just occasionally they are "worth every penny", but they do cost more and not every Speedster owner sees the need for them (there are owners who do no more than the drive to the beach for ice cream). And yeah there are front zero offset kits available, but they cost more. I know most rear kits use a type 3 hub, which adds 5/8" track per side (which you can get around by using early axles and tubes or narrowing the irs trailing arms) but I don't know about the wide 5 kits. Why add a spacer when you could put a wider rear tire on it?

Aren't all the Porsche style shrouds fiberglass?

 

I think my accident last February was to a large degree due to issues with my rear drums.  In the pre-impact panic stop, the front brakes locked up and the car continued forward as if the rears weren't braking at all.  While in normal driving they felt ok, I hadn't successfully gotten them adjusted for hard braking in quite some time, partially due to a persistent leak from one axle seal.  I thought I had finally solved that, but I had begun to have doubts before the accident occurred.

Neither the adjustment issue nor (I think) the axle seal leakage would have affected rear disks, and those are reasons enough to have them, in my view.

Lane---I almost mentioned your crash in my above post because I always felt that if you had discs on all 4 wheels, you could have stopped in time.   Your reaction time was probably fine but the rear drums let you down.  Damned shame except the incident led to scoring a super coupe soon.  Talk about a silver lining!  

Lane Anderson posted:

I think my accident last February was to a large degree due to issues with my rear drums.  In the pre-impact panic stop, the front brakes locked up and the car continued forward as if the rears weren't braking at all.  While in normal driving they felt ok, I hadn't successfully gotten them adjusted for hard braking in quite some time, partially due to a persistent leak from one axle seal.  I thought I had finally solved that, but I had begun to have doubts before the accident occurred.

Neither the adjustment issue nor (I think) the axle seal leakage would have affected rear disks, and those are reasons enough to have them, in my view.

Yeah, discs on the front (where there isn't a lot of weight), rear drums out of adjustment and maybe even some transaxle oil contaminating a set of shoes? Not exactly a recipe for success. 

Those running discs on the front with drums on the back- take the time to adjust those rear brakes often if you want them to be effective in an emergency stop...

And if you're running bigger/wider tires and wheels on the back along with front discs and Beetle rear drums- all the more reason to keep those back shoes adjusted right up!

Last edited by ALB
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