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I am very new to the Spyder community and have been trying to decide what Spyder and what drivetrain. I have spoken to Pat at CP and have gone through Jake's website and read all the posts on motors. I found the Pauter website and got interested in what they offer, since I have their rods in my 94 Porsche Turbo and they are considered top rods in the 911 community. They seem to have some very interesting Type IV long blocks, heads, rods and a few other parts. They do not seem to offer turnkey motors, but the machining and design seems top notch and equal to their rods.

I was wondering what people think of them and whether I could acquire their long block and heads and rods and have Jake put them together with the rest of his stuff to come up with a fine high end motor. Any thoughts?

(www.pauter.com)

Gordon
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I am very new to the Spyder community and have been trying to decide what Spyder and what drivetrain. I have spoken to Pat at CP and have gone through Jake's website and read all the posts on motors. I found the Pauter website and got interested in what they offer, since I have their rods in my 94 Porsche Turbo and they are considered top rods in the 911 community. They seem to have some very interesting Type IV long blocks, heads, rods and a few other parts. They do not seem to offer turnkey motors, but the machining and design seems top notch and equal to their rods.

I was wondering what people think of them and whether I could acquire their long block and heads and rods and have Jake put them together with the rest of his stuff to come up with a fine high end motor. Any thoughts?

(www.pauter.com)

Gordon
If you have the time. Build the engine yourself. These are simple engines, if you can operate a can opener you can put one together. (no offense to any one). You will learn a lot and have tons of fun. I've been putting mine together for about two months now and even though I've ran into a few snags these forums have given me any answers I needed. Not to mention that if you do make a mistake you could build three extreme high output motors and have the benefit of knowledge and experience for what it would cost to have one made.

If your not into taking expensive risks... Tell Jake what you want and know that you are getting a quality product. Even though I don't own one of his engines I have never read anything bad about him and that's a very respectable accomplishment in a forum full of perfectionist.

One final note, I have been reading a little about Subaru engines and recommend you don't exclude one as an option.
Unless someone has a backyard complete with Dynamic balancers, milling machines, lathes, and a dyno, they cannot parallel what a competent engine assembler that does this 12-16 hours a day can do.

Its impossible.

I started doing my own as an enthusiast... Not a professional...

An engine the caliber of what Gordon desires is a challenge for someone like me. It will take no less than a solid year for me to create.

The Subaru engine is a candidate, but given what his desires are I don't feel it would be best for him. I send alot of my customers that way that I don't think would be pleased with an aircooled engine.
Jake, I've been trying to come up with a reply I cant seem to find the right words. Lets just say that I STRONGLY disagree with your opinion. I think anyone that is willing to learn and do some trial and error can build a high performance air cooled engine that will rival any one else's. I guess we will find out when the engine I'm designing and building goes in my car this summer. If it blows I'll admit your the king but if it doesn't....
I am not a king, and not any type of expert.

The fact is that with each engine that I personally build I can handle 100% of the labor and machining and balancing that goes into it. any time that anything has to be sent out to be done, you are banking YOUR engine on THEIR work- More than likely that is an open door for an issue.

My reasoning for the post comes from being a guy that has had to learn each and every aspect of building and maching one step at a time. Just like you will during building your engine.

There are many more engines built by individuals every year than built by shops like mine. I know because I talk to alot of the guys and assist them with their combinations and do alot of their balance work for jobs.

Seeing this everyday heps to find flaws with parts, and having the needed equpment makes the product better. Things like balance impact the engine so much that many people do not understand it till they have a failure.

If you build enough engines, you will have a failure. I have atleast two a year myself, but they are normally very far from normal powerplants. Any engine builder who has not blown an engine up has not pushed his skills to the limits, and has not built enough engines!

To do the job correctly (and provide all labor yourself) and not have to look to another individual except for raw parts DOES take thousands of dollars worth of tools and equipment.

If I build it, it has all my own work into it 100%. Depending on others when you are a do it yourselfer is where many problems stem during build ups, as most local machine shops care nothing about the little guy working on the "Volkswagen motor"

I'm confident that you'll build a good engine. If you need any assistance email me, 100 people a day do and I help who I can.

As far as the engine equalling what an experienced shop that has thousands of hours in R&D can do- its not happening unless you get really lucky, atleast not on your first attempt. The first attempt you shoule be more worried about making sure you get the engine stable, and free of oil leaks. This is a very progressive thing, most guys start out with a 100% stocker and work their way up the ladder. Thats what I did.

To design one of my bus engine combos to the point it is now it took me 13 cam swaps and over 3,000.00 just in cams, lifters and pushrods to get it perfect... It can only be tested in real world environments and simulations are worthless. I'm going through the same thing now with cooling system design and have been for 4 months straight. trial and error is the only way to go! If you have the drive and patience then repsect you!
I have to agree with Jake. Anyone can put together a VW engine, but to make it last or for any performance modifications it takes an engine builder years to devolope that skill. My engine builder has built quite a few engines for off road, drag and street driving. It is amazing all the little tricks you learn watch him build a VW engine. He built a 1776 for my 67 VW sedan about 15years ago. I sold this engine out of the car when it was t-boned in 1985...This engine just showed up in a Puma, the owner said that it is the fasted engine he has ever run. We checked and it has never been opened up.

The engine I put together 2 years ago is now sitting on my garage floor...has a slight knock...

Leave the building and research to the experts. Any one interested in a warmed over 1600 aircooled with dansk performance heater boxes (HTC coated), Berg breather, EMPI valve covers, Scat Hi-lift rockers, S&S 4-into-1 exhaust with hideaway muffler, new bosch generator, lightened flywheel, deep sump, filter oil pump, Scat power pulley, 009, Blue coil and a clutch with only 5000km on it ($1500.00CND)
I have to agree with Jake. Anyone can put together a VW engine, but to make it last or for any performance modifications it takes an engine builder years to devolope that skill. My engine builder has built quite a few engines for off road, drag and street driving. It is amazing all the little tricks you learn watch him build a VW engine. He built a 1776 for my 67 VW sedan about 15years ago. I sold this engine out of the car when it was t-boned in 1985...This engine just showed up in a Puma, the owner said that it is the fastest engine he has ever run. We checked and it has never been opened up.

The engine I put together 2 years ago is now sitting on my garage floor...has a slight knock...

Leave the building and research to the experts. Anyone interested in a warmed over 1600 aircooled with Dansk performance heater boxes (HTC coated), Berg breather, EMPI valve covers, Scat Hi-lift rockers, S&S 4-into-1 exhaust with hideaway muffler, new Bosch generator, lightened flywheel, deep sump, filter oil pump, Scat power pulley, 009, Blue coil and a clutch with only 5000km on it ($1500.00CND)
Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from him, but to each their own.

If I were you, I'd go and buy the parts, and start dicking around with everything until I got what I wanted. There are literally hundreds upon hundreds of books on TIV engines.

All I know is that for under a thousand dollars, I can build a 275hp TIV engine.

In the end, it is your hard earned dollar, so spend it as you wish.

Mike
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