Does anyone know which shops can do this? How much does it cost? $10K? $15K?
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a real "hot rod"/ fabricator that has seen & done it all guy can make that happen....lots of those in so cal...but it's way more involved than it seems...ie: radiator....coolant pipes....ECU /wiring relays for fuel injection... adapter plate ect ect....lots of "murphy's law" scenarios....luckily my car was delivered TURN KEY and even then took a bit of sorting out...."save your dough & hire a pro" but once done correctly eliminates all headaches involving "air cooled"....no offence to VW folks since i was once one 
....good luck and happy motoring
I’m sure I’m not the only one who finds it ironic that these cars are designed to pay homage to 1950’s-60’s air cooled cars, and then people want to update to water cooled motors. 
@jncspyder posted:a real "hot rod"/ fabricator that has seen & done it all guy can make that happen....lots of those in so cal...but it's way more involved than it seems...ie: radiator....coolant pipes....ECU /wiring relays for fuel injection... adapter plate ect ect....lots of "murphy's law" scenarios....luckily my car was delivered TURN KEY and even then took a bit of sorting out...."save your dough & hire a pro" but once done correctly eliminates all headaches involving "air cooled"....no offence to VW folks since i was once one
I wouldn't be so " down" on the idea of a home built / mechanic assisted Soob conversion. It depends a lot on how badly you want it, what $$ you want to throw at the project and how much you can do yourself. Almost 10 years ago Ed Ericson and I conflabbed quite a bit on the subject while he did a homebuilt Soob conversion for his MG while I was doing one for my older IM pan based Speedster. We learned a lot about getting the cooling right and Ed installed his own Soob electronic ignition and FI while I opted for something more familiar to me and installed a Ford Escort Ignition system and used a center mounted Weber 2bbl carb. I started with two junkyard engines till I got things right and then built up a pretty nice Frankenmotor. You'd benefit from a beefed up tranny too as there will be bags of torque to play with. Also there is now a way deeper pile of info on the net of how to pull something like this off.
Contrary to what JNCSpyder says, you don't need to be a hot rod fab guy that has seen it all to get it done. There's a lot of satisfaction making things work yourself and there's no shame in getting help either. You're in Cali ? ....lot's of help available there. Need help ? You could even " work with a pro " and get it done nicely while saving some bucks.
fwiw most of the challenge in getting mine buttoned-up was in making the engine fit...and in learning that one must absolutely replace the head gaskets correctly in order to make a junkyard or unrebuilt engine work.
$15k sounds ballpark.
DWC,
Your profile info shows you are in New Jersey. I suggest you Google "Subaru tuning shops" or something similar in NJ. If they can't/won't do the work, they can likely recommend someone who will. Best of luck as you move forward.
@Jim Kelly posted:DWC,
Your profile info shows you are in New Jersey. I suggest you Google "Subaru tuning shops" or something similar in NJ. If they can't/won't do the work, they can likely recommend someone who will. Best of luck as you move forward.
As usual, Jim has good info. I didn't notice you are from Jersey and I more or less referenced the abundance of VW shops / mechanics available in Cali. If you're keen on getting a Soob into a Speedster I'd go both ways and do some leg work on smaller specialty Subaru shops and also the vintage VW people. One of my kids has a very souped up Audi 3 or 4 and his mechanic said he'd work on my car anytime. I'm getting old and can't crawl around under cars very well anymore so I found a local small shop with 3 bays and the owner is a young guy....like around 56 and he can work on just about anything. He does my oil changes, tune ups ( dual Webers ) , valve adjusts and about anything else that needs attention. He gets my car every April and goes over the whole thing. He has a three bay garage for his employees, but has a shop of his own on the same property which can take in about four cars at a time spread around. Always nice stuff in there, mostly American muscle ( he races at Laguna Seca with some buddies ) but he likes working on my car. If I wanted to replace my 2332, he said he'd do the Soob. Guys like this do exist. Do some legwork and put the word out. And I think you'd be a lot closer to 10 bills than 15 if you do enough research.
Special Edition the Beck guys have done a Subaru conversion on one of my Speedsters and have done it for many others. I am having another replica type car converted to Suby power by them this winter. They do impeccable work and they have figured out how to do the conversion in a factory like way. Expect to pay upwards of $15k plus depending on your preferences. They are also very backed up so getting Carey to agree on doing the work may be another issue. That said, many believe they are one of the best at doing Suby powered cars and conversions. Going this route makes for a completely better driving experience and in my opinion the best way to go if you want a dependable turn the key and drive car with plenty of go power.
I don't know of any specific shops, but your best bet is to find a shop that does Subaru into Vanagon conversions. They are well-versed in all the necessary areas: radiator and hose installation and routing, exhaust fab and routing, ECU and wiring harness mods and integration, and clutch/bellhousing adapters. And don't forget the engine mounts and shortening the oil pan.
That is if you can't do the work. If you can, there are plenty of places around that can help you. Small Car Specialties sells a lot of Subaru-Van parts that are applicable as does Kennedy Engineering.
If it was my Speedster, I'd just build or have built a new engine. Built it bigger and reliable.
It all depends on what you are looking for from the car.
@LI-Rick posted:I’m sure I’m not the only one who finds it ironic that these cars are designed to pay homage to 1950’s-60’s air cooled cars, and then people want to update to water cooled motors.
We think alike but with a Suby you get the boxer rumble while at the same time get more trouble free horsepower and reliability. More like a modern car that you can drive anywhere. We die hards like the air cooled route
I built my car with a Subaru motor originally. I think you might be underestimating the costs a bit. The torque produced by a 2.5 EJ will destroy a T1 transaxle regardless of how easy you drive it. You will need to change the transaxle. T2 or Mendeola would be best at a cost of $3,500-5,000. Even a fully built T1 is $3,500.
The results are amazing. I have been building and driving air cooled VWs for close to 40 years now with focus on T1 motors above 2l. There is no comparison to drivable horsepower of a Subie EJ and the sound is wicked. My advice would be to DO IT! but expect to pay $20k. You can do it yourself for $10k.
Good Luck and keep us posted!
Mike
Suby power is great and all, BUT..
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Have you talked to a doctor about that? Might want to have that checked out.
I know, I know..... I used to say my car leaving that little puddle every night was it marking its spot. You don't play with dubs for 40 years without a love for the machine. I am just too old to adjust valves and chase oil leaks every weekend. I just wanna drive. You might say I sold out, or you might not.
@Mike B posted:I built my car with a Subaru motor originally. I think you might be underestimating the costs a bit. The torque produced by a 2.5 EJ will destroy a T1 transaxle regardless of how easy you drive it. You will need to change the transaxle. T2 or Mendeola would be best at a cost of $3,500-5,000. Even a fully built T1 is $3,500.
The results are amazing. I have been building and driving air cooled VWs for close to 40 years now with focus on T1 motors above 2l. There is no comparison to drivable horsepower of a Subie EJ and the sound is wicked. My advice would be to DO IT! but expect to pay $20k. You can do it yourself for $10k.
Good Luck and keep us posted!
Mike
I would agree unless Pat Downs is building you a 2.65L Type 4.
@Carlos G posted:Suby power is great and all, BUT..
That smell. It smells like... victory.
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@LI-Rick posted:....ironic that these cars are designed to pay homage to 1950’s-60’s air cooled cars, and then people want to update to water cooled motors...
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@Sacto Mitch posted:.
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I wonder if the "cut the fuel bill in half" part was due to the MPGs or the fact it's an 8 gallon tank?
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I'm old enough to remember motoring in American cars in the '50s.
My dad's Buick got eight mpg in the city, which was mostly where he drove it. And that's why it needed a 20-gallon tank.
A car that could get 20 mpg was a big deal. Going from 20 gallons to eight on a fill up could save over $3.00 — enough to take the whole family out to the movies.
I know, I know, those were ancient times. Why would anyone have to drive somewhere just to watch a movie?
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Just like with the entirely stupid Weber vs. Dellorto debate, I'll take the Pepsi challenge with ANY NA Subaru Speedy or Spyder vs. my aircooled Spyder. Notice I said NA, turbos are just, well, cheating.
Valve adjustment? Wahhhhhhh, it is easy, once a year. Leaks? I have none. If you're constantly futzing with an aircooled, you're doing it wrong.
Bring it on, Suby fans. I'm lighter, faster, and just as reliable. Maybe more reliable.
A 356-ish (replica) vehicle needs to have the engine in the back, and carry the whine of the fan. And yes there is a smell when things are running right. Not sure where that comes from (does hot aluminum have a smell??) but you know it when you get it. The Subie conversion is very understandable, but not what these cars are all about, just my HO.
Turbo vs. NA?? Is it cheating?? On these cars I'd go along with that. My DD, a 2018 Honda Accord has a turbo and it is the bomb. Very well engineered and integrated from the ground up system that is dramatic. Force-feeding has a very positive effect on ICE volumetric efficiency. And gives you a very nice kick in the pants when you ask for it.
Could one get a turnkey Suby conversion with “original” suby transmission, ECU etc…? Would that be the ultimate in terms of reliability?
Wonder if it will cost more or less than using a vw transmission?
"ultimate in terms of reliability" applied to a hand built car? Might be an oxymoron. An historical note: the millions upon millions of VW 1500 and 1600 flat four air cooled engines sold all over the world developed a reputation over time for significant reliability. So there is that. So much depends on maintenance and of course in this group, how much "hot rod" has been applied. Rather few here are happy with a plain-Jane 1600 mill putting down something like 50 hp. Which engine would be counted as pretty reliable. Stuffing a Subie engine into the back of a VW based hand built replica and getting all the plumbing and electrons to go where they need to go is not what the Subie engineers had in mind. Can it be done with good effect? There is plenty of evidence of that. Can it get hinky? plenty of evidence there too. So, no good answer here, as it all depends.
@zdouga asked: "Could one get a turnkey Suby conversion with “original” suby transmission, ECU etc…? Would that be the ultimate in terms of reliability?"
Yes, it can be done. One of our members had a JPS replica 356A coupe with a rear-placed Suby 2.5L mated to a forward placed Suby 5-speed with a reversed ring and pinion from Suby Gears in Australia. It went like a scalded cat and was reasonably quiet (for a transaxle sitting under the back seat). I don't know if Special Edition/Beck is doing a rear-mount version of their super coupe or not. @chines1?
As far as reliability goes, that totally depends on who built the engine/transaxle, how far from stock it is, whether using a Subaru ECU or something else and how much modified it is, yadda, yadda.
Remember that ALL of these cars are custom in some way (sometimes, many ways) and one should expect a certain level of normal maintenance that might be above something bought at your Ford or Toyota dealer.
@Gordon Nichols, Yes, the SuperCoupe is available in rear-engine configuration.
@zdouga posted:Could one get a turnkey Suby conversion with “original” suby transmission, ECU etc…? Would that be the ultimate in terms of reliability?
Wonder if it will cost more or less than using a vw transmission?
Yes, and that is the standard configuration of a Beck Speedster since 2019 (and I have 2 rear engine coupes on the road with 3 more in process and several more in queue). Prior to 2019 the spec was about the same but with a properly built and geared T1 box. It is actually slightly more expensive to do with a properly built and geared T1 box. The gearbox itself is a little more money and then you have to add custom flywheel and adapter plate.
To do the conversion right, with a pro shop and the best parts, cutting no corners, figure $20k for the conversion.
You could get a really nice, strong, and reliable(150 hp or more) 2 liter+ type1 engine built for half that amount that Carey listed.
Cheaper than 10k(easily) if you got a 1915cc, which is probably 50%(about 90 hp total) more power than the wheezing 1600cc.
And the car would end up lighter.
I too am an air-cooled advocate.
There is a sweet-spot for Type 1 engines and how we all want to use them. I can almost guarantee that if you built (or had built) a 2110 using CBs engine kit (1183 Builder's Choice Engine Kit), which is presently running just under $5000, you would be happy
...IF you went with a programmable ignition. The weak spot in these engines is the ignition. Everybody fumes and fusses about the carbs, but 95% of all "carburation" problems are ignition. I (like every other long-term hi-po VW guy) needed to learn that the hard way.
This is by no means the only expense in going this direction (you'd need to build, dress, carburate, and install the engine, and you'd need a suitable exhaust), but you really ought to be able to get it done for less than $10k.
Think about it.
Listen to Danny and Stan. I'm having a suby coupe built, but it's suby for some very specific reasons NONE of which would apply if I were building a speedster or spyder (they aren't all weather cars).
Go the route these guys are suggesting and the old engine comes out, the new goes in along with a remote oil cooler and filter, and an electric fuel pump with regulator. You're done. Take a drive.
Go suby and you've got all of that to do plus wiring harness issues to solve, possibly installing a drive-by-wire throttle pedal (depending on what ECU is used), programming the ECU if you go after market, coolant lines to install, radiator to install (If one gets either of those wrong and it'll overheat the motor, blowing the head gaskets). If you're doing it for heat and ac, you've got a plenum, heater core and condenser to install...somewhere. I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff.
It's an order of magnatude more complicated and complication brings its own reliability issues. We can't avoid reliability issues by going suby, we just change what they are.
@JMM (Michael) posted:We can't avoid reliability issues by going suby, we just change what they are.
Michael for President.
Theoden: "I will not risk open war."
Aragorn: "Open war is upon you whether you would risk it or not."
"can't avoid reliability issues by going suby, we just change what they are."
There it is in a nutshell.
I have a 2022 build Intermeccanica roadster with a turbo Subaru engine (252 rw hp on a dyno). Subaru ECU professionally tuned with a Cobb tuner and a reversed Subaru 5 speed.
I have had some issues over the past 2000 km but the engine transmission combination has been completely reliable and drivable.
Having a car built by Henry and IM is completely different than a home conversion of a pan-built Speedster from aircooled to watercooled Suby Turbo.
As you said, professionally built and tuned.
I'm quite sure your IM is very nice indeed, but apples and oranges comparo here.
@DannyP posted:Having a car built by Henry and IM is completely different than a home conversion of a pan-built Speedster from aircooled to watercooled Suby Turbo.
As you said, professionally built and tuned.
I'm quite sure your IM is very nice indeed, but apples and oranges comparo here.
^ that. All day long.
Concur.
And as a guy with both a home-built pan-based Suby conversion (albeit in swoop-fendered, upright grill MG guise) and a pro-built air-cooled engine in a home-built, tube-framed Spyder replica, I will add that, although the Suby is more reliable on a per-start basis, it has required some serious work since its installation.
It also makes the car less old-timey in a way I hadn't reckoned. The engine's torque means shifting gears is optional, where it used to be necessarily strategic. In some ways, that makes the MG ever so slightly less fun—even though it's much faster and more capable than it was with the old 1600 stock Bug mill. 
The Spyder's air-cooled engine, a pro-built 1915 Type 1, fixed with a proper programmable ignition system, is occasionally finicky. It does drip a spot of oil. Hot starts can be a process.
My two cars are comparable to each other in several ways. Both run with the same gear ratios: 3.44 R&P and stock Bug gears, .93 4th. So they both cruise at just under 70 mph at 3,000 RPM.
Both engines peak around 5500 RPM. The Type 1 is rated at 120 hp and loses about 2 horses at 6k. The EJ22 makes a claimed 137 hp and has a stock, unalterable rev limiter at 6k.
Both engines provide their respective cars (with me and fuel aboard) almost the same power to weight ratio: 14.3 lb/hp in the MG; 14.25 lb/hp in the Spyder
So which is better?
For me, the Suby is better in the MG (it fits better than a dual-carb VW engine ever could; the radiator grill was already there), and the Type 1 is better in the lighter, originally air-cooled 550.
But that's me, and that's this Suby and this 1915 Type 1.
Your mileage will probably vary.
The Subie in the MG: 5 1/2 lbs of flour in a 5 lb sack. Do they make a shoe horn that works for that maneuver?
I found this very complete link on swapping in a Subaru engine to a VW bug. Much more complicated than I initially thought!
TheSamba.com :: Performance/Engines/Transmissions - View topic - Subaru swap guide/info