removing leaves from front beam to soften...(May 2018)

First- what front shocks are on the car? If the car has stiff shocks (I first wrote "if you have stiff shocks", but the juvenile male in me...) then changing suspension spring rate won't do anything. Next is how is the car lowered? Has 1 tube been turned more than the other? If the tubes are cut, turned (and re-welded) the car will ride best with both tubes turned the same amount. 40 years ago I ran a Cal Look bug with lowered about 4" with a Select a drop (it rotates the top tube down while the bottom tube remains at stock position and puts all the suspension action on the bottom tube) and the front rode horribly (the evil little 135's and Koni's didn't help either)!

I don't think pulling torsion leaves in any of the above scenarios will achieve what you're looking for. Otoh, if the car is lowered with spindles, has stock front shocks and the beam tubes are stock (or cut/rotated the same) then yeah, removing leaves may do the trick. I have read about guys pulling 1 set of  small leaves out of each tube, 1 set and 1 full leaf (again, out of each tube), and all the small leaves out of both tubes (mostly in buggies, iIrc). I'm sorry to say that I don't remember any of the outcomes. I think a couple guys have done it here, but again, don't remember any specifics. Maybe ask on the Samba's 'Kit Car, Fiberglass Buggy, 356 Replica' forum? Al

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewforum.php?f=38

Craig, have you checked the tire pressure yet? The tire manufacturer recommends way more pressure than these light-front end cars need. I'm only running about 18lbs in my front tires and that made a big difference. Also, the shocks could just be too stiff for the car. With the reduced weight in the front end of these cars there is nothing to compress the shock which can make the ride harsh.

I've heard of people removing some leaves like Al says.

That being said, My Vintage Motorcars Spyder has a full complement of leaves but it's a 2" narrowed beam. Shorter leaves makes the spring rate

I know the Formula Vee guys remove ALL the leaves in one tube and install an anti-sway bar in the tube. But a Vee weighs what, 800-900 pounds total?

A stock Bug is 1800-1850(as was a 356) and some Speedsters are 1700 pounds or more. There are a couple Speedsters that are lighter. My Spyder weighs 1500 pounds total with 45%(675 pounds) on the front. A stock Bug has 630-700 pounds on the front so I'm thinking the spring rate should stay the same if the weight is the same.

Try this: Jack up the front of the car and grease the front beam(it should have zerks on it). One zerk for each trailing arm bushing. Take it for a ride. Any better? if no, remove the shocks, then take it for a ride. If you determine the shocks were too stiff, buy some nice black COFAP stock Bug shocks. If that doesn't fix it then maybe remove a couple leaves.

And tire pressure: I run 22-23 in front, 25 on long trips at highway speeds. 18 is too little, sidewalls are too soft at that pressure with modern tires(IMHO).

Thanks Al, Robert and Danny.  I'll do some checking tomorrow on your questions.  Shocks are KYB Nitrogen, will check model when I get it up off the floor.  Car has stock spindles, not lowering ones.  My beam is adjustable, I'll post pics.  The two center holding nuts are not in the same location, but close.  Tire pressure was the first thing I did when I bought this brick.  Lowered to 18-20 with no result, ride still stiff.  I went back up to 25-28PSI because I have 205 55 15's on the front and at 18-20 it took two people to turn the wheel when parking or backing to turn out of drive.  We are in a 5 day rain delay until I can test it without shocks.  That's my next try.  Any advice on the best SOFT shocks to buy?  There is not an Advance Auto around here that sells "used" shocks.  I even put more foam on the drivers seat bottom.  Didn't help.  I may mount seats with springs next or rubber bushing in place of the hard spacers.

Craig

Craig,

Something's wrong, man. My money is on the shocks, but if you take them off and it's still hard, I'm betting there's something wrong in the beam.

Those KYB are indeed gas shocks so not near as bump friendly as old oil shocks.  The low profile 55 series tires don't absorb much either.

Cofap shocks. Oil filled. LoPo. They work.

Take out moar air. Build up yer muscles.

Then (if necessary) take out small leaves. Bridget (my MGTD) has all six small leaves removed from each of the beam. Only the eight large leaves are left. Doing that took the ride height down (now a bit too much—six years later I'm probably gonna put a few back in!) but the ride quality—with lopo oil-filled shocks and 165/80-15 Nankangs running 16 lbs improved a bunch.

Speedsters have better weight distribution than Bridget. After the shocks (cheap ones!) and removing most of the air from the tires I'd start, in your case, by removing 3 small leaves from each beam. That will take the spring rate down to something close to ideal, but beware, as it will also give you more roll. You DO have the larger 5/8(?) sway bar up front, right? 

It would seem strange if 98% of the cars heard of on here have never had leaves removed from the torsion stack and they all ride just fine while yours doesn't.

Like Stan, my money would be on those gas shocks, but I would also grease the front trailing arm bushings, too, as Danny mentioned.  That's just as important.  And not just one or two squirts on each either - There are four grease fittings; top and bottom on each outside end of the torsion tubes on the front side of the tubes and it sounds like they might be dry, so put 6 - 10 squirts into each one, road test and then do the shocks.  Get the softest, oil-filled shocks you can find for a VW sedan of your pan vintage and you should be all set.

He's lowered at the beam. Running oil shocks for a car lowered with adjusters from one of the many VW places online (like these, from CIP1) would be the best bet, in the event that it really is the shocks.

As I said, my money is on the shocks-- but a dry beam is no bueno, and dry bushings will make it ride like a log-wagon as well.

You've checked the tire pressure and it made no difference. As others have said, move on to the shocks. I like the idea of removing them and checking the ride quality. If it improves, new shocks are in your future. If there's no change, it's on to the next step.

Keep us informed.

Grease it until it comes out the ends!

Re. KYBs, as others have said, gas shocks, including KYB Gas-Adjust, are too firm.  However, KYB GR-2s are just fine.  I had a set on my car for ~50k miles. with a very reasonable ride.

DannyP posted:

Grease it until it comes out the ends!

Agreed. There’s no other way to know. 

@craig- I hate to be the 1 to suggest this, but if tire pressure isn't too high, greasing the beam and removing/changing shock absorbers doesn't find the problem there are 2 things to check.

First check that the ball joints were properly oriented when they were installed-    

The ball joints need to be correctly aligned to function properly. If 1 or more aren't the front will ride rough and the ball joint itself will self destruct faster than normal- how fast I don't know, but they all need to be in the same plane as the trailing arm movement. You can see the damage that's been caused below2nd- The beam itself could be bent. If it was brand new when installed in the car then it'll be fine but if it came out of a donor car (and that car was sold for parts because it rear ended something) it's something to check. If it's bent on 1 side (I've seen just the bottom tube tweaked and it doesn't take much) the trailing arms will bind when they move and make the car ride rough. 

Hope this helps. Al 

Is't there a possible issue too with some current Chinese (?) ball joints that once pressed in they bind and don't articulate as they should?

I'm betting on a grub screw not set right...

@WOLFGANG  Remember, Same issue we fixed on my red speedster.

@craig Try adjusting your beam all the way up and take it for a drive.

Also, the way the adjuster where put in, drop spindles and an adjustable beam are the way to go. 

WOLFGANG posted:

Is't there a possible issue too with some current Chinese (?) ball joints that once pressed in they bind and don't articulate as they should?

You may be right, Greg.

I think there were two balljoint issues a while back.

One was where they were installed without paying attention to the index arrows that are supposed to be lined up which caused binding during use.

The other one was Asian replacement balljoints that would become stressed somehow  when assembled to the trailing arms and then would bind and be stiff.  I think @chines1 Carey Hines had a few of those and alerted us to them.  IIRC, if you got Brazilian VARGA units they were OK.  And, of course, the German ones have always been good.