Replicas

Season 2 Episode 11 they have a replica speedster on the show for a brief bit - they loved it.

My car is a little VW hotrod that has a body that is pretty close to a Speedster.

It no longer has any Porsche badging except the little crest on the frunk handle, and that is soon to be gone.

I just ordered a replacement badge for the rear that will make it clear that it ain't a Porsche.

I loved Terry Nuckels car with the Volkswagon badging and Stan's car with it's new badge over the license plate light.

I'm not trying to fool anybody and the longer I'm in this hobby the more variants and customization pops up. That's great.

To truly replicate a Speedster in every way would be a chore. Start with the placement of the handbrake, the dash.....ad infinitum

I’m happy for you. BTW my replica has a Porsche style handbrake.

I always liked the "look" of the 57 Porsche Speedster. Back in the early 90's I saw a CMC flared fender Speedster replica at a Bug Bash weekend in Gatlinburg Tn.. Being a VW guy I thought the VW powered Speedster replica was about the coolest looking thing I ever saw. I never forgot how that car made me feel and later on when I had the means to own one I looked until I found a flared fender replica and bought it. I still love my Speedster and it is almost nothing like a "real" Porsche Speedster (for which I am glad) mine being Subaru powered in my mind is a much better car to drive. If I owned an authentic Speedster I would never drive it, so in that case I may as well own a picture of an authentic Speedster instead.

@R Thorpe posted:

I’m happy for you. BTW my replica has a Porsche style handbrake.

I thought about ordering the under dash parking brake for my build. In the end, $1,500 for what in my opinion is a less user friendly parking brake wasn’t worth it. To 99.9% of people, the location of the parking brake will mean nothing, and at the end of the day it is still a replica.

Regarding your initial post about the accuracy of speedster replicas, replicas are fairly different than the original speedster. The ones you and I ordered from Greg are built on modified Volkswagen frames with fiberglass bodies, and have Volkswagen transmissions and engines. Even little things like placement of the speedometer will not be “correct”. They are not exact speedster replicas and are speedsters only in spirit. The plus side is we get to enjoy these cars, flog them, tinker with them, and don’t have to worry about them being several hundred thousand dollars worth of automotive history.

My original question was one of curiosity after being amazed how different a Mercedes "replica" was from the original after the members of the TV show team got into it. I purchased mine for all the reasons you say and I am content that the cars we have are only big boy toys and should be treated as such.  Cheers.

P.S. one of the reasons I went to Greg is the handbrake, so cool worth every penny. to me nothing looks worse than the VW handbrake and heater controlls between the seats.  Thats just me.

Some guys care a lot about how closely their car resembles the real deal. Most care a lot less. Part of the fun of these cars is the mix and match, compare and contrast.

I agree. When I first joined this community I was calling our cars "kit cars" which is not a problem for me.  I was told in a private message that was a no no. Kit Car, Replica, Tribute, all are more than OK with me. I'm told people are even putting water cooled Asian engines in these things.

Maybe it's time to start calling them tribute cars?

https://www.speedstertribute.com

Frankly, IMHO, tribute is way too strong a term. I reserve that for far more important things in life. But call em' whatever you want.

Tribute is a name in fashion to describe normal cars made into legendary cars I think Shelby Mustang "Tribute" Copo Camero "Tribute"  regular cars dolled up to look and act like the originals. A better term for our cars would be Speedster "Impressions"

The original IM was made by Frank Reisner from an actual Speedster.  He was able to borrow it if he pounded out the dents and primed before he returned it. Of course inner body panels were made creative so the body could be molded.  The Prancing Bull book (Intermeccanica: The Story of the Prancing Bull) said he was first to make a mold that was bolted together and then unbolted and the finished body popped out.  Look at simple lines of the dune buggies at the time - they were easily popped out.  CMC bought excess bodies and molds from IM so assume from same plug.

Many said that early  Vintage Speedsters had evidence of a damaged left front fender which came from OEM speedster used for the plug.  Maybe Troy can comment.

Many say the front wheels are too far back on many replicas - but I see same thing on real Speedsters.

Rusty Tubs has a rear seat bulk head that replicates the original better than other replicas. $895.

interesting. I like.

@R Thorpe wrote: "When I first joined this community I was calling our cars "kit cars" which is not a problem for me.  I was told in a private message that was a no no."

That's probably from an IM, Beck or VMC owner, as all of their cars came from a professional builder so I can understand their angst.  The restivus with CMCs or Chesils or even the off Beck or VS bought as something far less completed as un-assembled "Kit Cars" to be finished at home.  Those are all "kit cars" and even Beck has a couple different levels of completion as "Kits" to be finished at home.  A bunch of us even built one at the 2006 Carlisle Kit Car Show, shown here:  

https://youtu.be/0f-Y4uIz0qk

But here's the deal - When you buy something in kit form, whether it's furniture from IKEA, or a DIY pre-amp for your ancient Denon turntable, or a Speedster, you're buying it with the expectation that everything is in the kit for you to finish it and, more importantly, that everything fits.  

CMC made more "kit cars" than anyone else and let me assure you, they never shipped a complete order the first time and when you began to assemble it (usually while you were still fighting with them for missing parts), nothing fit.  Everything had to be modified or reworked or substituted with a replacement part or something better before it "fit".  

The biggest reason that we all laugh at their claim of a 40 hour build is that you would typically spend 3X or 4X that time just making things fit!  Us CMC builders, whaling (or wailing) away in our poorly heated/cooled shops all became really good at making things right on these cars with varying levels of skills.  The vast majority of CMCs built at home have very high build quality, but we still see the occasional screw-up job from someone who should never be allowed near any tools, much less build a car ("George from Texas" comes to mind).  Those get bought and the new owner spends a year or two fixing and sorting everything to make it right.  Al Merklin and Troy Sloan are both experts at this, but we've coached a bunch of one-builds on here, too.  Personally, I'm OK with "Kit Car" as that's how they're most often described at car shows and C&C events, so What'cha gonna do?

So for all of those builders of "Kit Cars", I think what they built was more of a "Custom Car" than a kit.  I would have loved to have mine done in 40 hours.  Heck, I was planning on 6 months as a "leisurely" build to forget about work at the time.  

Mine took seven years!

Many owners on this site took exception to the phrase "kit cars".  However, the hobby itself was mixed in the usage and acceptance of the term.

The now-defunct magazine for replicas was named Kit Cars.  In addition, the replica "big show" is still held annually at Carlisle, Pennsylvania, a cars & coffee event which is considered the ultimate replica gathering.  The folks who put on the annual car shows there referred to our gathering as the "kit car" show until recently, when it merged with the import and performance car crowd.

I now own two kit cars, a VW MG TD that was built in 1980 by a guy two counties away, and the VW Porsche Spyder I built myself in a little over three years.

Agree with Gordon that most of the guys who take offense at the word "kit" do so because they did not build the car themselves. And fair enough, I suppose. If one buys something fully assembled, batteries included, it's a complete thing and not a kit. Also, the guys working at VS, Beck and IM are just better at building cars than me—and most of the rest of us. But...

IMHO a home-built Speedster or Spyder can be (and often is) just as good as a "factory turn-key" example. Often they are objectively better, as a careful examination of Gordon's Speedster, Danny P's Spyder or any number of Alan Merklin-built cars demonstrate.

So, I don't understand the use of "kit" as a slur, unless in the context of unalloyed class snobbery. A guy with a legit 1952 MGTD could call mine a "kit car" with some contempt, if he wished—but in a decade's ownership and having met and interacted with many owners of real MGs, it's yet to happen. And I think that's down to the relative value and rarity of our respective cars.

A dude rocking an original 1956 Speedster is likely to find himself in a different tax bracket but, even so, I've yet to hear one of those marque stalwarts sneer "kit" at any of ours. It may have happened out of my earshot. I've heard that some of the 911 guys are snarkier, but have never yet experienced it.

So the main cargo of feelings and concerns about the term "kit car" appears to reside within this, the Clown Car Community. As a charter PCCA member, this saddens me. What are these contraptions, really?

Definitionally speaking, I don't see a credible case for the word "replica." Even if one rejects the strict "tool room copy" definition employed by some rare car enthusiasts, both of my vehicles are far, far from close to correct copies of the vehicles they supposedly "replicate." My "MG" is 4 inches longer than the real item, for example. And that's before we even start to talk about what end of the vehicle the engine's in! The Spyder is also 4 inches longer than a real 550. It's the wrong shape across the cowl and the rear fenders and the butt end and the front end. Wrong wheels, wrong brakes, wrong front suspension. On and on and on. These facts hold in my specific cases despite a ton of work I did making both cars look more like the cars that inspired them than all but a few other kits.

I think those little details are worth the time and effort and money, mostly. But only because I love them. Not because I imagine for one second they'll make Pinocchio into a real boy.

And your cars are the same: Speedsteresque in greater or lesser ways, some with the correct-looking "umbrella handle" parking brake under the dash, some with a flatter, lower tunnel, some with pedals that look less Bugish, some with gauges, or the shifter, or the top frame, or the door cards or the hood hinges or the engine dressed more or less like what a real 356 Speedster might have worn.

What we have here are all loose, or even looser, interpretations of a 65-year-old vehicle. They are all tributes, I think, to the iconic cars of a bygone era.

But—and this is important—not a one of them is ever going to fool even the most naive potential buyer that it's a "Porsche." None of our cars falls into—or ever could fall into—that category of "clone cars" wherein a '68 Lemans is transformed, for the purpose of resale, into a "GTO," or a 1970 SS Nova becomes a "Yenko."

Friends, what we have are "hot rods."

They are hopped-up VW Beetles. Better, stronger, faster.

More stylish.

Cuter.

Meaner.

They are street rods. Hot rods. Assembled (by someone—maybe me, maybe you, maybe Carey Hines) from Volkswagon Bug parts, mild steel, aluminum and plastic resin. Some are kits when they come to us. Others are kits when assembled professionally, then sent to us.

Hot rods. Street rods. Customs.

We are the kandy-kolored tangerine flake streamline, babies.

And we're the dual-plug, bundle-o-snakes rack & pinion road runners.

And the fuel-injected crank-fired Speeduino-weenies.

And we're the coast-cruisin', wave-catching cool runnin' chillaxers.

31 flavors of madness. Or even more than that.

Well said, like,like,like

I always get a big kick out of doing shows with Rich MacKoul, the guy in town with the beautifully restored and original ‘55 Speedster.  He always insists that we park next to each other and whenever someone asks about our two cars he always points at mine and says, “ That one’s an original”.  Then he points at his car and says, “That one’s a fake.”   Most people really don’t know the difference.

And I totally agree with the Hot Rod reference and I’ve been saying that all along about my car.  I love the original look but I really wanted a 356 Hot Rod when I built mine.  There are a lot more 356 Hot Rods on here than one might think.

@edsnova

I know I could've simply hit the like reply button ( and I have), but I just had to say what a great post that was Ed - thanks.

Bill

Always loved kit cars -

In Hawaii, our cars are officially titled with a make of Porsche and a model of  Street Rod Replica. I like it. My license plate is FAUX-57. I tell people it's just a fancy VW.

@Michael Pickett posted:

In Hawaii, our cars are officially titled with a make of Porsche and a model of  Street Rod Replica. I like it. My license plate is FAUX-57. I tell people it's just a fancy VW.

That could potentially be a big problem when it comes to selling your car to anyone outside of Hawaii.

@Troy Sloan posted:

That could potentially be a big problem when it comes to selling your car to anyone outside of Hawaii.

That's the law. Nothing I can do about it. I suspect DMVs know how to read the law or to talk to DMVs in other states.

I think you're right, Mike.  I actually did it.  I shipped my fairly new, California-registered VS to Kauai in 1998, registered it with the state of Hawaii, then shipped the car back to California when we moved back to the mainland 2 years later.  I later sold the car to a guy in Colorado, who had no problems registering it there with the Hawaii registration.

That's not to say that all interstate registration is simple, but it worked for me.

I don't mind the term "kit car", however it makes the building process sound a lot easier than reality.  As Gordon pointed out above, these are not as much a kit as a starting point for a builder.  When I think about a "kit", I imagine something like a Revell model where you just assembly the pieces.   These cars require a lot of custom fitting, research, modification and skill to complete.

A builder takes a lot of pride in his build.  Sometimes building the car is more enjoyable than the ownership of the car to a builder.  I think this is why "kit car" may offend some, it diminishes the real effort put into the replica.  I prefer replica because it is an accurate description in my opinion.  The car replicates a Speedster, it is not an original and is probably a little better! 

I remember a local car show where a guy pulled up in a mid 60's Bug that he had just purchased from a classic car dealer.  It had a new (and incorrect) paint job, old engine and every chrome widget that was ever offered in a J.C. Whitney catalog.  He wrote a check, had it delivered, drove to the show and won a trophy.   A friend of mine leaned over and said "I know that must piss you off because he bought it just like that and has never worked on it?"   LOL.  He knows that I take a lot of pride in building.  BTW, he owns an awesome Ford Falcon that he built!     

@James posted:

I don't mind the term "kit car"

Me neither. It takes the steam out of the guy looking to razz you for it.

"Yep. Just a kit. Plastic. It's got a VW engine back there. I love your Lotus/996/Mustang. Who did the work?"

"Kit Car" as explained at the Hebert Candy Mansion car show by a guy to his girlfriend:

Everybody at car shows knows that any backyard hack can build a "kit car" - After all, everything comes in the kit, right?

It takes real talent to build a car from scratch, like a Factory five '33 Hotrod.

TC (remember him, you oldies?) and I heard that and just about passed out, laughing.

Another good name would be Speedster Hotrods, true, nostalgic, cool man cool

I like "hand-built replica", because that's what mine is. Body/frame by Greg at Vintage, everything else by me. Drilling, wrenching, bolting, assembling, fettling, tuning, wiring, and tweaking. By me. Cuts, bruises, burns, too.

DannyP

i envy your experience and if I were younger that’s the path I would have taken. Like very much

I like the term "fettling".

I think it’s an British term, heard it on “wheeler Dealers”

Fettling:  cleaning, polishing, making something nice.  Originally, it referred to removing excess material from castings.

Fettle:  to be in good shape, as in, I'm in fine fettle today.

More information nobody asked for

A few hours after I commented on fettle I saw it used in a Road & Track article.

I was going to mention fine fettle but Bob beat me to it. It seems like that description isn't used much any more.

To be in fine fettle, means you are doing more than fair to middlin'.

Which itself is a big step above piss poor.

Here in the netherlands the badge is not a big issue. The handfull of replica cars ( Like my own ), all have a VW titel from the early seventies. And all of us speedster drivers are Porsche fans!

I am building an awsome superwidebody Speedster. this  model was back in the eigthies designed in west usa.

( never designed in Stuttgart or Gmund ).

I woud call it as a Porsche 330 Outlaw Speedster. It is getting the looks from the mid fifties with a lot of more modern technology under skin.

When going to a showground on the paddock parking the car next to the classic porsche stand on the Nurnburgring  ,it is fair to mention thats not an original Porsche.

When going to Switzerland you must cover all the badges.

Also a grate fan of the Discovery car shows, Old TopGear and Jay's " Jim Crackery"  meaning.

@R Thorpe posted:

How accurate are our Speedster Reproductions?

IIRC from the article in Kit Car that originally piqued my interest, back in 89 or something, I seem to remember it said Chuck lengthened the Spyder 2" and widened it 1" or vice versa, to make it easier to get in and out. I don't know about Speedsters, but I think they did the same type of thing with the GTS.

That said, although I have far less experience with "kit cars" than most, I've never seen a Speedster that wasn't as nice or nicer than an original. Certainly a better car to drive and maintain. If I were to spend $250K on a Porsche, it would be a Singer, not a Speedster.

250K would'nt get you a Speedster or a Singer try 500K or about.