Hi All,
I am going to order my Spyder next summer from Vintage, however, my problem is that I can not find anyone who sells a motor that will fit--
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Hi All,
I am going to order my Spyder next summer from Vintage, however, my problem is that I can not find anyone who sells a motor that will fit--
I am going to order my Spyder next summer from Vintage, however, my problem is that I can not find anyone who sells a motor that will fit--
Try:
www.cbperformance.com/
www.cbperformance.com/
Hi Joe,
Unless I'm missing something here, I still am unable to locate the proper engine--CB Performence just does not seem to carry it--any other suggestions?
Thanks Anyways,
Mike
Unless I'm missing something here, I still am unable to locate the proper engine--CB Performence just does not seem to carry it--any other suggestions?
Thanks Anyways,
Mike
Sorry for my last post, I must have missed it. Any ways, in total it looks like the engine kit--1914cc--and case is going to cost me around $500, is this reasonable? What are the major differences between the
Michael: The 1914 cse is machined for 94mm pistons and cylinders. The "stock" case accepts 85.5mm pistons and cylinders. CB Performance welds a stiffener plate in the bellhousing next to #3 cylinder to support the head stud in that area.
You'll need to decide what size engine you want to run. The cases are not interchangeable.
Remember, the original Spyders were run with a max of 125hp. The 550A's had 140hp, but the chasis and suspension was changed (that's why Porsche changed the designation to 550A).
You'll need to decide what size engine you want to run. The cases are not interchangeable.
Remember, the original Spyders were run with a max of 125hp. The 550A's had 140hp, but the chasis and suspension was changed (that's why Porsche changed the designation to 550A).
Tom,
Which engine are you running?
I have heard that the 1914cc engine has better life expectancy than the "1600cc" engine, is this true? I can't imagine that it is, since the 1914cc engine uses more case material and, in turn, has less space for the case savers, which leaves the engine running at a higher temperature. I suppose if I run the 1914cc engine I will need to get a very well made carburetor, exhaust, and intake system to compensate for the high running temperature of the 1914cc engine.
Thanks for the Advice and Future Advice,
Michael
Which engine are you running?
I have heard that the 1914cc engine has better life expectancy than the "1600cc" engine, is this true? I can't imagine that it is, since the 1914cc engine uses more case material and, in turn, has less space for the case savers, which leaves the engine running at a higher temperature. I suppose if I run the 1914cc engine I will need to get a very well made carburetor, exhaust, and intake system to compensate for the high running temperature of the 1914cc engine.
Thanks for the Advice and Future Advice,
Michael
Michael, here's my take on your situation.
If you're going to purchase a Spyder, then build a big engine. Believe me, you'll be much happier. Many competent engine builders are out there, you just have to look. Go out and purchase a copy of "Hot VW's" or SandSport Magazine. Each has a plentiful number of engine builders.
Most of us that have Spyder have a minimum of 2,000 cc's. In my case, I have a 2165cc engine (94mm pistons and a counterweighted 78mm crank) In addition, I have ported and polished heads, modified engine case, beefed up rods, a modified cam, better rocker arms and an industrial strength clutch. All fed through twin 2 barrel 44mm Weber Carbs.
A stock VW engine consists of 85.5 mm pistons and a non-counterweighted 69 mm crank, being fed from a small 1 barrel carb for a total of 1,584 cc's
Stroke (longer crank) adds torque and more HP. Thats why Porsche designed the 356 and 912 engine with a 74 MM crank and 83 mm pistons for a total of 1601 cc's. These engines also had twin 2 barrel carbs.
Modify the case for added strength, add an additional thermostatically controlled oil cooler, use a "late" doghouse fan shroud with a "new" oil cooler, a welded and balanced fan, cut the case for "full flow", add an external oil filter, add a slim line oil sump and build at least a 2.1 liter engine and you'll be MUCH happier.
While you're at it, don't skimp on the transmission. Personally, at the minimum, I'd recommend a side plate, and a "super dif" You can alter the gear ratio's but I'd run the stock 4th gear. (.89)
I use a 3.88 to 1 ring and pinion due to it's strength over an early 4.12 and at 3,000 RPM's, running the most common rear size tire (205/60/15) my speed is 63 MPH. A 4.12 at 3,000 is 60 MPH. A 3.44 at 3000 is 71 MPH. (In my opinion, the 3.44 R & P is too slow for a modified VW engine) (remember, cooling comes from engine speed, but that's tricky, the faster you go, the more cooling you need, the slower you go, the less cooling required
speed = heat)
build a killer engine and you'll smoke Corvettes, Porsche's Camaro's and Mustangs up to about 65 MPH.
A well built engine performance should see 60,000 trouble free miles if driven properly and maintained with care.
If you're going to purchase a Spyder, then build a big engine. Believe me, you'll be much happier. Many competent engine builders are out there, you just have to look. Go out and purchase a copy of "Hot VW's" or SandSport Magazine. Each has a plentiful number of engine builders.
Most of us that have Spyder have a minimum of 2,000 cc's. In my case, I have a 2165cc engine (94mm pistons and a counterweighted 78mm crank) In addition, I have ported and polished heads, modified engine case, beefed up rods, a modified cam, better rocker arms and an industrial strength clutch. All fed through twin 2 barrel 44mm Weber Carbs.
A stock VW engine consists of 85.5 mm pistons and a non-counterweighted 69 mm crank, being fed from a small 1 barrel carb for a total of 1,584 cc's
Stroke (longer crank) adds torque and more HP. Thats why Porsche designed the 356 and 912 engine with a 74 MM crank and 83 mm pistons for a total of 1601 cc's. These engines also had twin 2 barrel carbs.
Modify the case for added strength, add an additional thermostatically controlled oil cooler, use a "late" doghouse fan shroud with a "new" oil cooler, a welded and balanced fan, cut the case for "full flow", add an external oil filter, add a slim line oil sump and build at least a 2.1 liter engine and you'll be MUCH happier.
While you're at it, don't skimp on the transmission. Personally, at the minimum, I'd recommend a side plate, and a "super dif" You can alter the gear ratio's but I'd run the stock 4th gear. (.89)
I use a 3.88 to 1 ring and pinion due to it's strength over an early 4.12 and at 3,000 RPM's, running the most common rear size tire (205/60/15) my speed is 63 MPH. A 4.12 at 3,000 is 60 MPH. A 3.44 at 3000 is 71 MPH. (In my opinion, the 3.44 R & P is too slow for a modified VW engine) (remember, cooling comes from engine speed, but that's tricky, the faster you go, the more cooling you need, the slower you go, the less cooling required
speed = heat)
build a killer engine and you'll smoke Corvettes, Porsche's Camaro's and Mustangs up to about 65 MPH.
A well built engine performance should see 60,000 trouble free miles if driven properly and maintained with care.
Mike--I can't talk details like you and Joe are doing here, but I can tell you that my Speedster had the VW 1600cc engine and my Spyder has the 2165, 155 bhp engine, and I believe you will NOT BE HAPPY putting the smaller one in your Spyder, unless you want your Spyder to run like an old 70's Beetle Bug. Just my opinion. v v
I also think 2110 is a good size for the spyder.
You could get by with a 1915 but you may regret it down the road.
Also resale wise, people want this car as a performance car. If you go any less than 1915 most buyers will want to replace the engine. You will get hosed.
I wouldn't even consider a 1600cc spyder.
Unless it was an original.... hahah then I couldn't afford it.
You could get by with a 1915 but you may regret it down the road.
Also resale wise, people want this car as a performance car. If you go any less than 1915 most buyers will want to replace the engine. You will get hosed.
I wouldn't even consider a 1600cc spyder.
Unless it was an original.... hahah then I couldn't afford it.
www.aircooledtechnology.com
I have created an entire engine program specifically for the Spyder. I have a full range of TI and TIV engines for the application. Each is designed with the weight of the vehicle in account and matched to your gearing and driving style.
I have had zero luck with strokes longer than 78m in a Spyder. The best combo we have found is a 78 x94 with a modified rod ratio and camshaft with dual patterns to compliment to lightweight vehicle and its need for a broad powerband.
If you want an ultimate 550 engine, I have a version of my 2316cc TIV "annihilator" that produces enough power to push my Porsche 914 to mid 13 second qtr miles and speeds over 110 MPH just in 3rd gear. My 914 is 1100 pound heavier than a 550- Do the math. This engine has seen track weekends as well as street miles around 15,000 and needed only scheduled maintenance.
The engine is what the Spyder is all about, make a wise well thought and researched decision. It may dictate the entire vehicle without a doubt.
I have created an entire engine program specifically for the Spyder. I have a full range of TI and TIV engines for the application. Each is designed with the weight of the vehicle in account and matched to your gearing and driving style.
I have had zero luck with strokes longer than 78m in a Spyder. The best combo we have found is a 78 x94 with a modified rod ratio and camshaft with dual patterns to compliment to lightweight vehicle and its need for a broad powerband.
If you want an ultimate 550 engine, I have a version of my 2316cc TIV "annihilator" that produces enough power to push my Porsche 914 to mid 13 second qtr miles and speeds over 110 MPH just in 3rd gear. My 914 is 1100 pound heavier than a 550- Do the math. This engine has seen track weekends as well as street miles around 15,000 and needed only scheduled maintenance.
The engine is what the Spyder is all about, make a wise well thought and researched decision. It may dictate the entire vehicle without a doubt.
Michael: I'm running a 1914cc engine in my spyder. The case has been tweeked for the big jugs. No doubt that what the other folks are saying about about 2+ liter motors is valid. Just be careful about stroking. The 356 and 912 engines with a 78mm stroke were 3 piece cases- they were designed for that stroke.
I'm a "retro-grouch" and belive in the balance of the original car by keeping the motor HP to around 125.
I'm a "retro-grouch" and belive in the balance of the original car by keeping the motor HP to around 125.
Actually, As I remember, the 356 and 912 engine had a 74mm stroke, not a 78.
I've been building and running stroked VW engines since the early 70's. If you build it right, it will work properly with little or no problems provided you maintaing it properly and drive it within it means. Another words, don't over rev the engine. Even a Porsche engine will break if you continually over rev. With a non stroked engine, you'll be more likely to over rev due to the lack of power.
I also seriously doubt that a 1914 will deliver 125 HP. Remember, all you're doing is adding 330cc over stock.
Let me give you an example. My engine, rated at 182HP on a dyno and at the flywheel reads the following.(yeah, I know, some dyno's read high and some low but lets use it for reference)
3000 RPM's 69 HP 121 pound feet of torque
3500 RPM's 84 HP 126 pound feet of torque
6500 RPM's 182 HP 147 pound feet of torque
Max torque at 6000 RPM's 152 pound feet of torque
So you see, I'll probably NEVER see the 182 HP figure since I don't want to take it over about 5,800 RPM's. A 1914 will NEVER give you 125 HP (if it could) unless you overreved the engine.
That combination is from a 2165 cc engine. A 1914 will produce WAY LESS and if it were to make 125 HP, it would be close to 6000 or 6500 RPM's The torque and HP on a 1914 engine, as the engine rose in RPM's, would be WAY LESS due to the short stroke. I'm guessing that IF it could produce 125 HP, the accompanying torque would be less than 100 pound feet.
Absolutely do not be afraid to build a stroked engine. A 1914 is an ok engine but is limited by its short stroke. Torque is the answer and with stroke comes torque.
Torque gets the car moving, HP keeps it moving. Anything less than a stroked 2+ liter engine would be similar to special ordering a Mustang Cobra GT and asking the factory to install a 6 cylinder engine.
I've been building and running stroked VW engines since the early 70's. If you build it right, it will work properly with little or no problems provided you maintaing it properly and drive it within it means. Another words, don't over rev the engine. Even a Porsche engine will break if you continually over rev. With a non stroked engine, you'll be more likely to over rev due to the lack of power.
I also seriously doubt that a 1914 will deliver 125 HP. Remember, all you're doing is adding 330cc over stock.
Let me give you an example. My engine, rated at 182HP on a dyno and at the flywheel reads the following.(yeah, I know, some dyno's read high and some low but lets use it for reference)
3000 RPM's 69 HP 121 pound feet of torque
3500 RPM's 84 HP 126 pound feet of torque
6500 RPM's 182 HP 147 pound feet of torque
Max torque at 6000 RPM's 152 pound feet of torque
So you see, I'll probably NEVER see the 182 HP figure since I don't want to take it over about 5,800 RPM's. A 1914 will NEVER give you 125 HP (if it could) unless you overreved the engine.
That combination is from a 2165 cc engine. A 1914 will produce WAY LESS and if it were to make 125 HP, it would be close to 6000 or 6500 RPM's The torque and HP on a 1914 engine, as the engine rose in RPM's, would be WAY LESS due to the short stroke. I'm guessing that IF it could produce 125 HP, the accompanying torque would be less than 100 pound feet.
Absolutely do not be afraid to build a stroked engine. A 1914 is an ok engine but is limited by its short stroke. Torque is the answer and with stroke comes torque.
Torque gets the car moving, HP keeps it moving. Anything less than a stroked 2+ liter engine would be similar to special ordering a Mustang Cobra GT and asking the factory to install a 6 cylinder engine.
I agree with Larry, there is (usually) no substitute for cubic inches, centimeters in this case. In the old days of VW engine building, a 2180(92mm x 82mm stroke) was considered a "hand grenade" by some. Times have changed balancing techniques flywheel fastening camshaft design and head flow techniques have also changed. I run a 2498cc 94mm x 90mm stroke, have over 20k miles on the engine and have had zero problems with it and am well pleased with it's performance.
Buy the car with the power you would want 5 years from the purchase, not right then. All the time I have customers that have 500 miles on their car toss the original engine and go MassIVe... it happens atleast 15 times a year!
Big engines are great as long as they are properly set up. The size doesn't matter, its how the size is made that does.
Most engines are builkt too big for their intentions, thats like closing your eyes and waiting for a nightmare.
Big engines are great as long as they are properly set up. The size doesn't matter, its how the size is made that does.
Most engines are builkt too big for their intentions, thats like closing your eyes and waiting for a nightmare.