That ain’t right Part II

They are CB Performance caster shims for the front beam.  

They should be positioned between the front frame mounts and the lower torsion tube to force the lower torsion tube out a slight bit to give the front wheels more caster.  That prevents the car from steering towards bumps and makes it more stable above 40mph.  There could be one on each side, or maybe two on one side that fell out - You’ll have to get under there and check to see what’s what and to tighten the mounting bolts.

If they fell out it means that the front beam mounting bolts are loose.  I would not drive the car until the bolts are tightened, then drive it to a place for a front end alignment.   Take the shims along and tell the tech to align it as a 1970 VW Sedan but use the shims to get the front wheel caster to the 5°-7° range.

Crank those bolts down with some Loctite on the threads!  Hope the bolts (lower ones) haven't vibrated off.  If using 2 per side - order the longer bolts.

Thank you, Gents! I greatly appreciate your input and expertise! Thanks as well for the prompt response!

A quick inspection of the front suspension seemed to reveal two paired shims to the right of center and two (now missing) shims to the left (located as depicted in Wolfgang’s picture). I’ll have some time her over the weekend to dive in and sort this out. I will report back with an update!

- Brent

Brent, glad you've got a plan. Just make sure you torque the bolts to spec. If you don't have that info, let us know and I'll post it.

Just looked that spec up:   36-38 ft. lbs. for the beam to frame bolts.

As Wolfgang mentioned, a little blue Locktite on the bolt threads would be a good idea, too.

There are endless reasons why this SOC site is a must see, but Gordon, Wolfgang, and Michael’s ‘pro tips’ are priceless. Honestly, without your torque spec’s reminder, I would have just tightened those frame bolt mofo’s down to within an inch of their lives and not given it a second thought.

Can you tell me what reference (where I can find that stuff) you used to confirm the proper torque specs?

Any day I can learn something new is a good day - and that’s EVERY day I’m on THIS site. How many websites or forums do we frequent can we actually say that about???

@30West posted:

There are endless reasons why this SOC site is a must see, but Gordon, Wolfgang, and Michael’s ‘pro tips’ are priceless. Honestly, without your torque spec’s reminder, I would have just tightened those frame bolt mofo’s down to within an inch of their lives and not given it a second thought.

Can you tell me what reference (where I can find that stuff) you used to confirm the proper torque specs?

Any day I can learn something new is a good day - and that’s EVERY day I’m on THIS site. How many websites or forums do we frequent can we actually say that about???

Either the blue (early) or orange (later) Bentley Type 1 manuals will have pretty well everything you need to know, and are a great reference.  For right now, I just found this page- it looks pretty complete.  One thing I would change- increase the rear axle nuts torque figure from 217 to 250-260 ft. lbs. and you'll never have to worry about your 'spirited driving' stripping the splines out of the drums (or hubs).  My offroad buggy friends tighten to 275+ ft. lbs. as the rear axle nuts will come loose at stock torque with the bigger/heavier rear wheels they run.  As you can imagine, a stripped drum or hub 20 miles out in the middle of nowhere kind of puts a downer in your day.

https://www.thegoldenbug.com/e...rque_specs_1970_1979

I don't know about the loctite- if the beam bolts are the right length and properly torqued they shouldn't come loose, and if you ever have to remove the front beam how do you heat up the thread areas to soften the loctite up?  My advice- torque them to spec (or maybe 10% more) and check that they're tight every once in a while.  You could make it part of your pre-driving season preparation/inspection.

As previously said, caster should be 5° or a little more.  We can learn a little from Porsche here- 356 front beams are welded in with 5° caster, which gives predictable handling at higher speeds.  VW specced about 2½° caster, which made parking lot maneuvering easy for 100 lb ladies and gave acceptable handling at 60 mph, but pushing it any higher can get you into real trouble.  Mishaps at these speeds can be kind of final, hence the shims under the front beam.

One thing to look for- also previously mentioned- when stacking 2 shims one normally needs longer bolts for proper/enough thread engagement.  This could be why they came loose? Maybe check how deep the bolts go without the shims in to make sure they're not just engaging a couple of threads.  What Berg has to say about caster-

http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=12_384_2917

Hope this helps.  Al

XX2 on the Bentley manual.  I have one (Orange) for 1968 - 1972 (my chassis is a 1969) and for all the VW stuff, it's great.  I liked it so much that when I wrote a service manual for my Speedster I followed the numbering format and order from Bentley.  

I also agree that the bolt threads and the length of the bolts is critical, especially when running two stacked shims to get you to 5º+ of caster.  The bolt threads should be even with or protruding just a tiny bit on the backside of the frame member - You can see them from the wheel well, tire removed.

@ALB also wrote (translated from the original Northwestern Lumberjack):

"if the beam bolts are the right length and properly torqued they shouldn't come loose, and if you ever have to remove the front beam how do you heat up the thread areas to soften the Loctite up? "

While I agree that they shouldn't come loose, for @30West (I wonder if that's his real name?  🤔   they did loosen up.  Might not have had lockwashers on the bolt heads or might not have been torqued properly in the first place, but in loosening enough to drop the shims out, they've probably worn the threads a bit from road vibration so adding Locktite Blue (medium) should be OK.  Someone should still be able to remove them years from now, if necessary, without heating anything  (this may not be true in Canada, where things are understandably more rugged).  Still (see note above), you can get at the backside of the frame member to heat stuff if you really need to.

Locktite RED (Heavy Duty) is a different matter - That stuff needs Dynamite to get it to break loose after it's cured.  It's not labeled "heavy duty" for nuthin'.

And now back to @ALB,  Our Northwestern Lumberjack in the Wild Rain Forests of Pacific Northwest British Columbia, where Men are Men and the the bears are hiding:

And here's one for Wolfgang:

Oh, you a funny man, @Gordon Nichols!

Excellent, @Gordon Nichols. I hadn't seen the German version. Oh, @30West, that's thread drift for you. As Al implied, what's your name?

Brent Black is the name (representing the Rocky Mountain region!), and learning’ from you guys is my game, ha!

Thanks again for all of your collective expertise and willingness to help. It really is unbelievable.

‘30 West’ is the mid longitude in the Atlantic (the dividing line between Gander Oceanic airspace to the west and Shanwick to the east)  and I’ve probably spent more time going back and forth across the Pond than any one marginally sane person ever should. . . . . . I think when I signed up for the SOC site Theron asks for a ‘user’ or screen name or something to that effect, so I just used something that alluded to my livelihood. So again, the name is ‘Brent’, but my wife has trained both me and the dog to answer to pretty much anything 😬

Welcome to the Madness Brent.  I've spent a lot of time traveling that same route between BOS/LGW/LHR/ORK, mostly on Aer Lingus and some corporate flights.  Once in Cork I often hopped all around Europe meeting customers who were usually ticked off at us for something and had to schmooze them back to happiness.  Happily, those days are far behind me, now.

Anyway, glad we could help out and get that beam fixed!

Update: fortunately, the beam bolts were both still there, but slightly loose - and I do mean just slightly. I was grateful to have recovered the shims AND still have my bolts. Placed the shims back in position (used the other side as a guide for positioning), tightened the beam bolts then torqued to spec. I will follow up on your recommendation to have an alignment done as well, but for now, an easy test drive mission to secure a large order of DQ Blizzard’s revealed no obvious issues!!

Thank you all for walking me thru getting my car back on the road! And for accounting purposes, how many cases of beer are we up to that I owe you all now???

😎B.-

Glad to hear it's back together.  Did you measure how much thread engagement is actually happening?  And as for beer- at least a full weekend's worth for everybody!

@30West posted:

Thank you all for walking me thru getting my car back on the road! And for accounting purposes, how many cases of beer are we up to that I owe you all now???

We'll trust you to drink it for us!

You know, the last time I was in Colorado we had someone in our group who has lived there (Denver) for 40 years and knew all the good craft breweries.  You've got some awesome brews out in Colorado, so pick your favorite and have one for us (as I lift my Allagash Belgian Wheat from Portland, Maine to you, Ayah!!)

Someday, someone on here will ask a question to which YOU have the answer.  

THAT's the payback!

There are longer, aftermarket beam bolts you use when you have shims in the lower bean section.   Blue Loc Tite them in.  Do I am sharing this tech post with my wife who has acquired quite base of speedster knowledge.. All in fun ....I tell her two shims fell off a speedster landing in the road so I say ; "What does that.... tell you"?  Connies says: ......." You didn't build that car" ... Simply priceless:~ )

I have assumed I don't need the longer bolts with 1 shim but would need them with 2 shims.

Do others agree?

Yes, Mike, that's correct.

Using stock VW beam bolts and no shims, the bolt threads extend beyond the frame by 1/4" - 5/16".  Adding a single shim reduces that to flush - 1/8" or so (YMMV) but still gives full thread engagement and that's what you're looking for.

Yes. my front is double shimmed and the longer bolts were needed.

The original beam bolts used locking tabs that one would bend once the bolts were torqued to the proper spec. You can get the tabs from any VW parts shop.

A friend's 67 Bug that he was in the process of restoring needed the caster shim set because it was undriveable on the freeway. The kit came with the longer bolts. He literally brought the car back from the dead; it works great and looks beautiful but he had to sink in a lot of money in it; including a rebuilt transaxle and motor and he had to redo everything; body, interior, brakes, etc. He now uses it as a daily driver to and from work. Now with the fuel price situation it gives him better gas mileage than his Ford Escape and he has an ideal situation; the car is always in a covered garage (at work and at home) so his paint and interior don't suffer from exposure to the elements.