Thank you for that Flickr account link. Beautiful cars.
The hot-rod is mid 6 figures, BTW, per Intermeccanica-us.
Wow, the market has really changed a lot. I guess it was to be expected given everything else that has increased by 50% of it's original value. Getting our head around it at times is painful 
I would still be looking for a newer car than older.
If I was looking for a used IM, I'd certainly look at anything with the tube frame. Was it year 2000 or so and up? Newer is usually better, but there are slim pickings out there so any that come up have to be realistically looked at.
Unless I was specifically looking at older ones for 25 year-old importation and emission exemptions, then pan cars too.
I think the first frame cars were after 1984, but it was introduced mid stream so you would have to check but Danny is right newer has more and more fine tuning of the cars so I would choose those beyond 2000 as well if I had a choice. Dave got a 1994 and it is quite nice. I test drove it when it was Ron Leonards car.
Yeah, I'm struggling with where that price point is coming from. They're beautiful, and everything I hear of them is that they're among the cream of the crop for replicas. But still replicas.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be looking at them if I didn't think they'd be fun. But I picked up my Targa 4s at 4 years old for $55k. Hard to justify 2-3x that price for a car that's not really even a all-season toy.
They're out there for $40K-$60K...if you look at the most recent sale on BAT (not the one that sold for $86K+fee), it was really nice and sold for just over $60K all-in. I'm convinced that like everything else automotive...the prices will come down!
This may be worth following, not and IM but the next best thing: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/beck-speedster-5/
@Mark Jensen posted:Yeah, I'm struggling with where that price point is coming from. They're beautiful, and everything I hear of them is that they're among the cream of the crop for replicas. But still replicas.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be looking at them if I didn't think they'd be fun. But I picked up my Targa 4s at 4 years old for $55k. Hard to justify 2-3x that price for a car that's not really even a all-season toy.
Since you own a Targa then you know that market.
It never will be about the least cost to buy one car or another as you will get some deals in real P cars and some in the replica market, maybe not exactly today. But, maintenance cost will be more reasonable most times with our cars as you avoid the P tax, you'll have some old and some new tech and if you go with a full subie millions of mechanics available if you cannot hold a wrench
Dollar for dollar depending on what you do and what you guy you can have a lower cost P car but only if nothing happens to it and you buy right.
Just an FYI: #341 on BAT was a 2012 kit sale, completed at home by the customer.
@Greg posted:This may be worth following, not and IM but the next best thing: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/beck-speedster-5/
oooh, nice find. Odd that it didn't trigger my alert. Thank you for that!
@Greg posted:They're out there for $40K-$60K...if you look at the most recent sale on BAT (not the one that sold for $86K+fee), it was really nice and sold for just over $60K all-in. I'm convinced that like everything else automotive...the prices will come down!
Yeah, I was one of the bidders. Missed it because a financial deal I had going on got delayed a couple of weeks, so at 50k got past my immediate comfort spot. Definitely have some regrets - love the stone grey and beige.
Now I'm really leaning towards keeping an eye open for an IM for the next six months, but maybe getting in the queue with Beck for a custom one.
I know everyone says John at JPS can be an ass... but is the end product ok (they also do Convertible Ds, and I'm thinking I'll definitely need real windows)
Well you might want to search this site for more info on who to deal with… I only remember three being in the good list many are in the naughty list…
@DannyP posted:If I was looking for a used IM, I'd certainly look at anything with the tube frame. Was it year 2000 or so and up? Newer is usually better, but there are slim pickings out there so any that come up have to be realistically looked at.
Unless I was specifically looking at older ones for 25 year-old importation and emission exemptions, then pan cars too.
1985-1986 was transition to space frame.
In the experiences of JPS owners on here over the past 15 years, what you get will be a crap shoot that follows a bell-shaped curve: Most, if not all, of them had great paint, but I doubt that he painted them. He just found someone who was good and used them a lot.
Some of them, on the right of the curve, were really good and the owners said so. Some of those owners were mechanically inclined, some not. Most of those cars were delivered within a few hours of his shops.
Some of them, on the left side of the curve, were delivered 2,000 - 3,000 miles from his shop and were terrible - shoddy workmanship, really strange choice of parts (some real automotive parts, some not) and a lot to sort out after delivery - some of that passenger safety related like loose wheels, steering box loose to the frame, steering box coupler loose, etc. Some of those were shipped back for repairs or to be made right at JPS, some repaired at the destination. Some repairs were paid for by JPS, some not covered. There were enough of those cars that I wrote a multi-page "New/Used car delivery checklist", that is on here somewhere, for new owners (of any brand) to follow to ascertain that their car was safe and up to snuff. It may only be available to donating members.
https://www.speedsterowners.co...acceptance-checklist
Then there were the 80% of cars in the middle, most of which required a few months of sorting stuff out as you drove them around. After a season of driving and things got fixed as needed, they were usually sorted (or re-sold) and were reasonably good after that.
My personal feeling is that those people who were within a 2-hour drive from his shop and could drop by periodically to check on their build got much better cars than people on, say, the East Coast who could not stop by - Doesn't mean you wouldn't end up talking with Mr. Hyde, but at least you're in person. Also, it is highly recommended to plan on a week span to pick the car up or prior to shipment to get on the road, do a shake-down ride of several days and get stuff fixed (or at least agreed to get fixed) before it ships.
Yeah, a USED JPS is probably a decent car. It's hopefully been sorted, and if it was originally a west coast car, then that's more certain.
A new one? Just wait until you meet Mr. Hyde...
Well, since I’m a few hours away from JPS and travel to SoCal 8-10 times a year, I guess that would put me on the right side of the curve. But yeah the Hyde angle isn’t great, and the recent ConvD photos on his site give me pause. Fit and finiish of interior leather work and top seems uneven, especially for product photos.
sigh. back to watching auctions.
Waiting might be hard but make no mistake it is easier than being eaten by a vulture in a business transaction. There is always a deal.
Well, Gordon speaks a good truth Re: JPS. The business has morphed some since the hay-days in North Hollywood. It has Relocated to San Diego area, I think, John has a partner, and what all else goes down these days, I have lost track of. Whether or not the reputation he garnered earlier is warranted these days, I have no idea. I suppose the business model is about the same: build to a low price point and use really good paint. I'm going to put my car maybe a little to the left of the hump in Gordon's distribution. It was very clear from Day 1 that my car was not sorted in any particular way when I received it by truck on the east coast, despite many claims that it had been tested and "all the guys in the shop love the way it drives." . Yes, it was built to my "spec", so I made many custom choices, which were executed. I needed to tend to much sorting -- its a long list. For the first year or so, JPS was attentive and sent parts that needed to be replaced, gave advice, and owned up to this or that which was not done right. Then came the time when he had had enough of that, Mr. Hyde came forward, and we parted ways. Overall, for a JPS I'd say you will need to be a bit of a gearhead, and have tools, experience and ability to deal with air-cooled VW technology that dates to the '40s. Or, know a guy who does and be willing to pay. When running right, the car is just fine. And I get lots of favorable comments about the paint.
Thanks for the reply El Frazoo.
I find it really difficult to believe that a builder can get away with providing a poor quality product for very long, especially with so many exiting the industry in the last 2-3 years. While I count myself somewhat handy (well, so long as I have an internet connection nearby), the idea of spending sizable money on a product that needs fixing out of the gate leaves me a bit cold. Mechanical/electrical I can do, fit and finish are a bit out of my wheelhouse.
How was the fit/finish of the interior and top on yours?
@Mark Jensen i can concur on many of the points made by @El Frazoo since i have 1st hand knowledge during my year & 1/2 "relationship" with dr jekyll aka mr hyde....my car is a 2018 delivered car and since my warranty has long since expired i have no reason to have any more contact with him ....so i as well am no longer knowledgeable about how his "business" has evolved since...some of my experiences have been told here on the forum....a few of the guys know some of my saga....if you are interested in knowing more...feel free to DM me....toooo much of a WAR & PEACE NOVEL to type over and over here 
Mark, yes eventually folks either give up, or figure out a a way to "set things right" and then enjoy what is at the end of the day a fairly good concept for a replica. And money matters. I re-emphasize that JPS aims at a certain place in that market. To say it plainly, I do not believe JPS considers Special Editions or what was Intermecanica to be his direct rivals and competition. He operates at a place a bit below what those shops do/did. Could JPS produce a car comparable to a Beck or IM? Probably. And it would cost accordingly. So cost matters. As to fit and finish, the JPS was just fine in that regard. Door/hood gaps good, latches good, Upholstery just fine. Full disclosure: I owned two 356 coupes back in the day. My first car was a 1956 A 1600 Normal, bought very used in 1966, and that was my OJT for all things air cooled rear engine. I count myself as mechanically inclined, and will tackle almost anything. IU have done complete overhauls of a few motors, but not the VW/Porsche flat four aircooled. I have a fair number of tools. Many parts on that 1956 car were embossed with the familiar VW logo. So I had a pretty good idea what I was getting into many many years later with the Speedster. So far, I have not come up against a problem that a little perseverance and a few knowledgeable friends, as found on this site, could not overcome. That said I am preparing to pay to have my transmission rebuilt by a guy who knows how to do that. As to that, the trans has worked fine and continues to work fine, but I found a piece of a gear tooth in the bottom of the case when I drained and refreshed the gear oil this past summer. Insofar as that cannot be a good thing, I'm going for a teardown and rebuild, even though the trans seems to operate OK despite the missing section of gear tooth. Whether or not I can lay that failure to anything JPS did or did not do, is unknown.