Torque Meister modification Plate to use on 5x130 bolt pattern

I have one and tried to remove the 36mm rear nut. It would not budge. I ended up using a high torque Mac air impact tool, my electric impact tool wouldn't break it loose either. 

That being said, I will use the torque tool to properly torque down the axle nut instead of using a impact wrench and not knowing what the torque value is. 

In all the years and projects a 5' pipe and a decent breaker bar will do the deed. I've only had to cut - spit one off .  A  few times I have had to put my weight on the end of the bar while a helper hits the 36mm socket with a short handle sledge hammer to shock it loose. 

Thanks for that advice Alan and Vdub, that is how I removed it with a 6 foot bar and a 3/4inch powerbar and of course 250lbs at the end of it. Ourangatan

I have a length of pipe marked with a magic marker every inch for the length of the pipe for nut tightening.  That way I can move my weight in and out on the bar to get the torque right for the application.  I also don't bounce the bar when tightening - Just put my feet on both sides of the length marker and stand on the pipe with my full weight til it stops moving - done.  

I have a longer (6') pipe for loosening and have been known to use an 8-footer for really tight nuts.  If it doesn't move by pushing down on the pipe I'll try standing on it.  Between the pipe extender and copious amounts of heat to the nut (the heat is often key to success), I have never had a nut that I couldn't loosen, but have had more than a few bolts break from excessive twist torque while trying to loosen them.   That always sucks.

Using a long pipe on a tight nut can be pretty exciting when the nut lets go (BANG!).  It's always best to be holding onto something stable when that sudden drop occurs.

I recently replaced the rear sway bar links on my Rogue and two of the bolts were hex socket studs with nuts on the other end.  The hex hole quickly stripped out when loosening the nuts, leaving me helpless to get the link removed.  Checked the new one and it included new bolts in the box, too.

What to do?  

Got out my second-favorite power tool, an angle grinder with a cut-off wheel.  Zip-Zap and that bolt was outa there!

IndianBob posted:

I also used to 6 foot pipe and a breaker bar with socket to get the rear nut off a 1970 VW Bus. I put all my weight on my chest and bounced up and down to break the nut loose and I broke two right ribs! I was a roofer at the time and had to go back to work the next day, oh the pain! 

Are you serious, wow, you took a beating for that Castle nut. 

I may have told this before but in my PA home shop I was using a 4' pipe on a breaker bar on a 36mm castle nut when it decided to slipped off, the pain - shock wave went right down my back  and away I went still with pipe in hand tripping over my own two feet in route to the other end of the shop crashing into more shyt that you could imagine. 

And I learned from all y'all's mistakes and had my son come out and make sure the socket didn't come off when I removed/tightened the castle nuts on my rear axles.

I've got in the habit of firing up the air compressor for castle nut duty.

edsnova posted:

I've got in the habit of firing up the air compressor for castle nut duty.

Yup. 

I bought a HF, or PA 550lbs/ft air impact and it would not remove the Castle nut... Must of been the moat. 

Some expert down in Bunnell, Florida tightened up my swing axle castle nuts with a giant air powered impact wrench to the point I cringed watching him do it at no charge while waiting for new tires to arrive. I had to use over 800 ft.lbs with various extensions to get the nut off finally, only to find the threads on the axle shaft were totally screwed. I think the spec on that nut was about 216 ft.lbs. Not much fun putting a new axle in while thinking about him every minute or so. 

I think we all agree that castle nuts need to be torqued properly. I have seen the splines in drums destroyed from not enough torque even in relatively stock cars. There is a bit of confusion, though, as VW specs both 217+ (page 60 Transmission and Rear Axle) and 253+ (page 21 Brakes and Wheels) in the same orange (late model Beetle, Super Beetle and Karmann Ghia) Bentley manual.

As discussed in another thread (3? 4? ?? months ago), with the wider tires and wheels, brake/suspension improvements and increased power loads we and our fellow VW hotrodders add to our cars, a slight increase in torque is probably a good idea. Although I've never had the misfortune  (and never heard of anyone else) of having trouble with rear axle (castle) nuts coming loose at stock torque specs in a modified car I can see the prudence in going to the higher specified value or a touch more, but let's not go crazy here. I'm thinking 260-270+ (to the next cotter pin hole if necessary) is probably more than adequate, but I know there is at least 1 person here that uses 300 ft lbs. as the magic number and isn't ruining threads or wrecking parts. 

I'm going to ask some of my off road buggy friends what they do, and next Tuesday at our monthly bug club meeting I'll be posing the same question. I'll let you all know what I find out. Al 

And those of you that think an air gun is the trick- re-read David's post just above.

On my swing axle, I run the castle nuts on with an impact gun. BUT, the gun has a knob to vary the torque. I dial it to about 100 ft. lbs. or less. 

Then, when I'm done with all the work, I put the car on the ground. With the breaker bar and a 3 foot cheater pipe, I lean on it. Not all my weight, but a good portion. I'd guess I'm between 200 and 300 pounds of torque. Then go just to the next hole for the cotter pin.

I've been doing it this way forever, on many different cars.

I don't just bang them on with the impact wrench. I take them off with it and put them on with the torquemeister and a torque wrench, or with the long bar and my own weight. 270 lbs plus a little to get to the next hole. Though once in a while the air gun comes back out to get that last 1/8 turn to the cotter pin hole. 

David Stroud IM Roadster D posted:

Some expert down in Bunnell, Florida tightened up my swing axle castle nuts with a giant air powered impact wrench to the point I cringed watching him do it at no charge while waiting for new tires to arrive. I had to use over 800 ft.lbs with various extensions to get the nut off finally, only to find the threads on the axle shaft were totally screwed. I think the spec on that nut was about 216 ft.lbs. Not much fun putting a new axle in while thinking about him every minute or so. 

I believe that down here in the deep south that kind of thing is usually preceded by something along the lines of "I'll fix that for free ya'll. Here, hold my beer and watch this...."

edsnova posted:

I don't just bang them on with the impact wrench. I take them off with it and put them on with the torquemeister and a torque wrench, or with the long bar and my own weight. 270 lbs plus a little to get to the next hole. Though once in a while the air gun comes back out to get that last 1/8 turn to the cotter pin hole. 

It is interesting that the Lbs/Foot for a 356 is at 450-500 if I remember well. I musn't be that critical except of course if you IMPACT it on with a killer AK47 impact and it goes over that amount (500)

There isn't any magic to the torque values for VW/Porsche fasteners.  Proper torque values have been around for years and are determined by the size of the bolt/stud, the metallurgical grade (hardness) of that bolt/stud and the coarseness of the threads.

I've attached a table showing typical values for different fasteners, both lubed and dry.

And no, I do not use an impact gun on my rear drive studs (IRS) but do run them to around 275 ft. lbs using a breaker bar and piece of pipe to get me to the 275+ mark, depending on where the next cotter pin slot is, like Danny.  Been doing it like that for years.

Table of Torque Values

Well I might just go out and get a 3/4 inch bar ... 40inch is available just to have on hand for the next time... oh yeah and a 36mm socket. 

The good thing about a 36mm socket.......    Is that it's big enough to store stuff in, like a stubby screwdriver.    

IaM-Ray posted:

Well I might just go out and get a 3/4 inch bar ... 40inch is available just to have on hand for the next time... oh yeah and a 36mm socket. 

Essential equipment if you're going to work on these things, Ray!

Once upon a time I weighed 150 lbs and standing on the breaker bar with a teeny bounce at the 1 1/2 foot mark (and then a little more to get to the cotter pin hole) was the way I did it. So I guess I've always put castle nuts on with (somewhere around) 250 ft lbs torque.

The 3/4" breaker bar and 36 mm socket was purchased very early on once I started working on my own car. Al

@ALB  I see that at PAuto they have 30 and 40 inch bars I guess i should get the longer one just to be able to use a shorter add on pipe.  I can't see using that size of breaker bar for anything else. 

I disconnected the hollow handle on my race style floor jack and slipped that over my 18” breaker bar. 

That is a good idea... 

Yeah, that's a great idea!  Works great and you have an automatic place to store it so it never gets lost!

IaM-Ray posted:

@ALB  I see that at PAuto they have 30 and 40 inch bars I guess i should get the longer one just to be able to use a shorter add on pipe.  I can't see using that size of breaker bar for anything else. 

You won't use it on anything else, Ray. Accept it, throw it in the tool box and it'll be there next time you need it. With Fuchs wheels another thing to have is a 3 1/2- 4 foot piece of angle iron. A couple of holes at 1 end so you can bolt it to the brake drum (or hub), wedge it against the floor so the hub/drum doesn't move and it makes dealing with those axle nuts so much easier!

Oh yeah, it does have to be a substantial piece of metal to make it work... 

I think a lot of people are making removing axle nuts a much bigger issue than it needs to be.  Anybody that  works on air-cooled VW's needs an axle walker in their toolbox.  They cost around $12 these days.  That and a hand sledge and off it comes.

So- I've talked to a few people about axle (castle) nut torque. My good friend (and general partner-in- crime with most things VW) Gerry, a mechanic who's raced offroad, builds engines, transaxles and built and services a number of local friend's buggies, aims for 280 ft. lbs and this is common among the offroad buggy owners I know. The guys in the bug club (who have running cars) use the VW spec or a little more. Bruce, who's torn into more transaxles than probably anyone I know (and knows as much about them as just about anyone on the planet), builds IM's transaxles, is the only person I know still daily driving a bug, torques the axle nuts on his cars (he has more than 1) to the 350-400 ft. lb. neighborhood and says he sees no ill effects. One of his cars is a low 13 or high 12 second '73 with a 78x90.5, Berg 5 and 7x15 and 8x15" alloys that has seen a lot of miles over the years. If you've read the Hot VW's article on narrowing irs trailing arms that I posted in a thread a while ago it's this car in the pics.

I forgot to ask the 2 guys with the fastest cars in the club (1 car is a '67 Cal Look, 88x94 11 second car; the other is a turboed/intercooled 2 literish/Berg 5'd oval window, and although it's yet to make a complete pass down Mission Raceway track, it reportedly makes 'a ton' of power) so I'll try to remember to ask them at the next meeting.  Next summer I'll have to work at getting a ride in both cars as well!

I was surprised sometime ago when this came up in another thread and Alan Merklin said he used the VW spec of 253 ft. lbs, as I had always read that the # was 217 (and tighten to the next cotter pin hole, of course). As I mentioned in a post above, I did find both numbers in the orange Bentley manual- which I find a little odd, as VW usually is usually pretty clear on stuff like that. Al

Thanks Al.  I wonder if any of them use a Torque Mr.