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1. Classified on eBay so you could take it today, just $270k

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224519191748

2. Ending today on BaT so you could take it today, creeping up on $70k as I write

https://bringatrailer.com/list...a-speedster-replica/

The "period details" that I love on the real speedster are the JCWhitney-look aftermarket gauges and the ashtrays for driver and passenger.

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The new Road and Track arrived in my mailbox (I'm old skool, see). They're only publishing 6 or 8 times/yr now, but the issues are big and "thematic" now.

This month's theme is "analog", and the premise is that analog is the new luxury. It's an interesting premise, and one born out with the price of old cars

... so the next time your pride and joy bites your hand and leaves you hoofing it to the nearest town, take consolation in the fact that in the modern age, all of this is all a luxury that people are beginning to pay long money for. Watches that won't keep reliable time, classic homes that leak water and have mechanicals that work "sometimes", and cars that don't reliably start/idle/run/stop - all luxurious to modern man.

My dad would just roll his eyes if he could see it now.

Last edited by Stan Galat
@Stan Galat posted:

The new Road and Track arrived in my mailbox (I'm old skool, see). They're only publishing 6 or 8 times/yr now, but the issues are big and "thematic" now.

This month's theme is "analog", and the premise is that analog is the new luxury. It's an interesting premise, and one born out with the price of old cars

... so the next time your pride and joy bites your hand and leaves you hoofing it to the nearest town, take consolation in the fact that in the modern age, all of this is all a luxury that people are beginning to pay long money for. Watches that won't keep reliable time, classic homes that leak water and have mechanicals that work "sometimes", and cars that don't reliably start/idle/run/stop - all luxurious to modern man.

My dad would just roll his eyes if he could see it now.

All true but give me cellphone so I can call AAA.

Very true Marty, the used market has lost it's compass bearing and since more people are looking it is analogue-ous to a price hike, (I liked that one Bob )  

Actually, I have been in contact with IM, up here, and they are back in full IC production with a reasonable wait period !  Having said this there might be a deluge of orders shortly. @Marty Grzynkowicz IM-6

Now is your time to order an IM-6 and it is Canuckian dollars at a 20% saving or more for the July 4th celebration, Happy July 4th to all of you south of the 49th and to all my long lost Cajun cousins.

Last edited by IaM-Ray

Especially Speedsters. When Jack sold Dean Jeffries car at Amelia Island a couple of years ago, there were 5-6 Speedsters that sold right around $500K. Granted, that’s Amelia Island.

I’m still gobsmacked that Ed only got $50K for his Karman Coupe. I know they’re considered the red-headed step child, and Ed’s had a 912 engine and trans, but still.

FWIW, Karman Coupes are my favorite hardtop 356. There’s something so 50’s-60’s German design ethic in them that really pushes my buttons. I think they’re the progenitor of the VW Type III

Last edited by dlearl476

I have a completely rebuilt, zero mile 1957 356 speedster engine. I bought it years ago with the plan of eventually putting it in a car down the road.  I never found a car to put it in, since the prices went crazy. The engines value has also climbed up into the clouds over the years, maybe I’ll let it go if the price is right.

@LeadPedal posted:

It’s an early 1957 pre A engine that originally had a roller bearing crank in it, but was replaced with one piece replacement crank during the rebuild.  It has dual single throat Zenith carbs and early shroud and linkage. Basically it looks exactly like this engine when assembled in a car.

In model year 1956, the 356 was replaced by the comprehensively enhanced 356 A. As from its market launch, this type was available with five four-cylinder engines:

- 356 A 1300 with 44 hp
- 356 A 1300 Super with 60 hp
- 356 1600 with 60 hp
- 356 A 1600 Super with 75 hp
- 356 A 1500 GS Carrera with 100 hp

https://www.porsche.com/usa/ac...ic/models/356/356-a/

@DannyP posted:

I never heard of a pushrod motor with a roller crank from the Porsche factory. I was under the impression that only 4-cam Carrera engines could be had with rollers.

Educate me, please.

News to me also. But I’m still confused by a “57 Pre-A.”  Unless this was an earlier roller bearing crank motor that found its way into a 57 car.

“There is an excellent discussion of the history of the Hirth crankshaft in

Ludvigsen's "Excellence Was Expected". Basically the problem Porsche faced
in 1950 was trying to increase the displacement of the engine to 1500 cc
within the limitations imposed by their using the 2-pc Volkswagen magnesium
crankcase (the 36hp VW case). They had increased the bore as far as they
felt possible by going to the Mahle 80mm chrome plated aluminum cylinders and
had gotten 1300 cc with the stock VW crank stroke. The problem with
increasing stroke was the lack of clearance to the cam lobes in the VW case.
The Hirth crank design with it's one piece rods gave them a means of
increasing stroke to 74 mm and thus achieving 1500 cc.
The first 1500 engines were introduced in '51 with the Hirth crank.
Subsequent development led to Porsche being able to use a plain bearing crank
by using a rod design with a stud and nut rather than a bolt and nut like the
VW rods, thus gretting the necesary clearance with the cam lobes. The plain
bearing crank was introduced in late 1952. Subsequntly the plain bearing
crank was used for normals and the roller bearing for supers up to the switch
totally to the plain bearing crank in around '58.
Porsche had used the Hirth design before for the Cisitalia grand prix engine
they designed right after the war, and so using their expertize was a logical
step. Ludvigsen's book says that in European-type service the Hirth crank
life was typically about 40,000 miles but could be extended if owners
"changed oil religiously, warmed up thier engines, and avoided low -speed
lugging in high gears."
Alan Hall”


If I’m understanding this correctly, Supers had roller bearing cranks up to 58? I’m guessing LP’s motor is the “356 1600 60hp” motor listed in the Porsche link above.

Last edited by dlearl476
@DannyP posted:

I never heard of a pushrod motor with a roller crank from the Porsche factory. I was under the impression that only 4-cam Carrera engines could be had with rollers.

Educate me, please.

This is all news to me as well- I know SPG made roller cranks for 356 as well as VW engines but I'd never heard of a factory pushrod engine roller crank equipped.  I  don't know a lot about the really early 25 and 36hp VW cased engines so I'm not surprised I hadn't heard of this, but roller bearing cranks in Super engines to '57- I've seen a number of pushrod engines apart and that one's a real surprise.

@ALB posted:

This is all news to me as well- I know SPG made roller cranks for 356 as well as VW engines but I'd never heard of a factory pushrod engine roller crank equipped.  I  don't know a lot about the really early 25 and 36hp VW cased engines so I'm not surprised I hadn't heard of this, but roller bearing cranks in Super engines to '57- I've seen a number of pushrod engines apart and that one's a real surprise.

Same here. If it hadn’t come from Ludvigsen I’d be skeptical.

.

I remember reading something about this years ago in R&T.

They were speculating about why so many 356 drivers buzzed around at slow speeds on surface streets in lower gears at higher rpm's. They suggested that the practice was no longer necessary, but a carryover from earlier days when 356's (with pushrod engines) had roller bearing cranks that were easily damaged if lugged at low rpm's.

Just found this long response in a forum on the 356 Registry site by someone who seems to know whereof he speaks:



pzwinakis@act.com wrote:


Roller cranks made by Hirth were used on the early 356 engines. They
were last used in the Super through the '57 model year. They were last
used in Normals in the '54 models.

Also, they were used in BMW motorcycles through the '69 models, as well
as other sophisticated engines, mostly racing.

I have never heard a definitive opinion of why they were used. Perhaps
the drag was a little less, but the engines didn't seem to lose power
when the conversion was made to plain-bearing cranks. One of their
benefits is that they could survive on just a mist of oil - they did not
need a constant supply of oil under pressure to the rods. Perhaps,
also, insert bearings were not able to take the heat of air-cooled
engines in the "early days." Whatever the reason for their use, they
were very complicated, expensive and repairable only by the most
sophisticated and specialized means. Repair in the field was rare; most
had to be rebuilt at the factory.

There were two major problems which shortened the lives of the roller
cranks in Porsche 356 applications:

1. If the oil used was too thick, when cold the rollers would "skid"
rather than roll, wearing flats on themselves and damaging the rotating
races. Bugatti racing engines, along with some others, required a heavy
viscosity castor oil. Castor oil, an excellent lubricant, was nasty
stuff when it cooled, so it was drained from a racing engine while still
hot. Then before the engine was started cold, the oil was heated! That
prevented the roller skidding until the engine itself warmed up.

2. Roller bearing cranks do not take kindly to lugging. That is,
booting the engine heavily at lower revs. The loading thus created
would wear out a RB crank in a Porsche engine in perhaps 10,000 miles.

There is a prevalent belief that engines with RB cranks should not be
allowed to idle below some relatively high speed - perhaps 1,500 rpm or
something - because they will not be adequately oiled if the oil
pressure goes low as it does at idling. That notion is mistaken. In
fact, as stated above, the RB crank requires very little oil - only a
mist to survive. Perhaps that belief also relates somehow to the harm
done by lugging a RB crank. In fact, they may idle as leisurely as a
plain bearing crank. Just don't load them heavily at low revs.

It was a huge mistake for Porsche to sell 356s with RB cranks in the
U.S. In Europe, drivers understood that Porsche engines, particularly
the Supers, were meant to be driven hard with their revs up. In the
U.S., beginning with '55 when Porsche sales began to make a mark, most
drivers had not the slightest idea of how to properly drive a 356 with a
RB crank. Or how to properly drive a 356 at all.

Many Supers were purchased because they were only about $500 higher than the Normals, and offered 15 DIN hp more - close to 20 SAE hp. Then they would go out and drive them as they would a big U.S. engine, using them under 3,000 rpm
or so most of the time. The cranks would begin rattling in 10k miles or
so, and cost around $1,000 to replace. That soured a lot of early
customers on Porsche per se.

There are very few 356s which originally had roller cranks, still
running with roller cranks. Most have been replaced, many years ago,
with plain bearing cranks. Except for the 4-cam Spyder engines and the
Carreras until they went plain bearing some time in the early '60s.

However, I have heard of some installing a RB crank in engines like a
S90, perhaps as an experiment to see if even more power can be found.
Believe me, you don't want one unless you are running a Spyder or an
early Carrera.


Pat Tobin
Just rolling along, cranky as ever

.

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